But really, What is the major malfunction?
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According to nextgen stats Baker has far and away the worst qb rating in the league when throwing from a clean pocket.
According to nextgen stats Baker has far and away the worst qb rating in the league when throwing from a clean pocket.
Young QB, new playbook, inconsistent OLine. Safe to say Baker is seeing ghosts this year...
Good news is, there is still time to turn it around..
Also, even ESPN gave OBJ credit for not losing his mind right now. So that is another positive.
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SOMEBODY knows! SOMEBODY in the Berea complex knows!
I doubt that it's all on Zeitler and Duke being traded.
Is it the plays? Who's playbook are we using? Freddie's? Monken's? A mixture? Do we need to bring back the modified Todd Haley playbook of the latter half of last season? We've got the same guy CALLING the plays.
We've added OBJ. He was supposed to make Callaway & Higgins much more productive. They're not. Higgins can't even see the field because Freddie hates him so much. WTF did he do. He's not talkin'. Baker is NOT the same as last year. It seems like he's in a universe that is quite different than from whence he came.
- I'm not even talking about the defense. We no longer have Peppers playing goalie while everyone else is on the other side of the 50....
Everybody always wants to blame the play caller. Bruce Ariens was blamed for our offensive problems years ago. But he proved it wasn't his fault.
I think it's the plays themselves. (although I wouldn't bet my vette on it) I bet if we went back to that simplified Haley playbook of last year we'd do better. But it also could be the defenses that we've faced so far (it doesn't get any easier this week against the Bills).
Of course, everyone and their brother, the media, including the weather man, wants Freddie fired. But those same people wanted Bill Belleyache fired too.
Now, if I'm right, and it's the plays themselves, their design.....then Freddie will have to be fired because he's not relinquishing his playbook and not giving up the play calling. And I don't think he's regarded as the best game time decision manager at this point in time.
I heard Freddie defend why Hilliard was in the backfield on 4th and 1 instead of Chubb. He said that Hilliard was their 3rd down back and that perhaps they might honor the pass instead of just keying the QB sneak. But I think with 67 checking in as an eligible receiver and a tightly stacked line, Hilliard wasn't gonna get it and that it was a QB sneak, whereas with Chubb being back there then the QB sneak might have come into question....and that Chubb may be getting it so, keep your head up for that instead of just hitting the LOS.
I dunno. I'm surprised that at this point in the season we're not good enough to win.
I didn't drink the cool-aide. I didn't think that the kid who snuck onto the roster and returned a punt for a TD in preseason would make the team, and I didn't think that we would be winning the super bowl. I had us at 9-7......racking up wins in the latter half of the season. I suppose that could still happen.....but I'm not feeling it any more.
I'm sooooooo confused........(and disappointed....disappointed for me, the rest of us fans, and for the players).
SOMEBODY knows! SOMEBODY in the Berea complex knows!
I doubt that it's all on Zeitler and Duke being traded.
Is it the plays? Who's playbook are we using? Freddie's? Monken's? A mixture? Do we need to bring back the modified Todd Haley playbook of the latter half of last season? We've got the same guy CALLING the plays.
We've added OBJ. He was supposed to make Callaway & Higgins much more productive. They're not. Higgins can't even see the field because Freddie hates him so much. WTF did he do. He's not talkin'. Baker is NOT the same as last year. It seems like he's in a universe that is quite different than from whence he came.
- I'm not even talking about the defense. We no longer have Peppers playing goalie while everyone else is on the other side of the 50....
Everybody always wants to blame the play caller. Bruce Ariens was blamed for our offensive problems years ago. But he proved it wasn't his fault.
I think it's the plays themselves. (although I wouldn't bet my vette on it) I bet if we went back to that simplified Haley playbook of last year we'd do better. But it also could be the defenses that we've faced so far (it doesn't get any easier this week against the Bills).
Of course, everyone and their brother, the media, including the weather man, wants Freddie fired. But those same people wanted Bill Belleyache fired too.
Now, if I'm right, and it's the plays themselves, their design.....then Freddie will have to be fired because he's not relinquishing his playbook and not giving up the play calling. And I don't think he's regarded as the best game time decision manager at this point in time.
I heard Freddie defend why Hilliard was in the backfield on 4th and 1 instead of Chubb. He said that Hilliard was their 3rd down back and that perhaps they might honor the pass instead of just keying the QB sneak. But I think with 67 checking in as an eligible receiver and a tightly stacked line, Hilliard wasn't gonna get it and that it was a QB sneak, whereas with Chubb being back there then the QB sneak might have come into question....and that Chubb may be getting it so, keep your head up for that instead of just hitting the LOS.
I dunno. I'm surprised that at this point in the season we're not good enough to win.
I didn't drink the cool-aide. I didn't think that the kid who snuck onto the roster and returned a punt for a TD in preseason would make the team, and I didn't think that we would be winning the super bowl. I had us at 9-7......racking up wins in the latter half of the season. I suppose that could still happen.....but I'm not feeling it any more.
I'm sooooooo confused........(and disappointed....disappointed for me, the rest of us fans, and for the players).
We're cursed.
"You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.” - Janis Joplin, 1970. -
SOMEBODY knows! SOMEBODY in the Berea complex knows!
I doubt that it's all on Zeitler and Duke being traded.
Is it the plays? Who's playbook are we using? Freddie's? Monken's? A mixture? Do we need to bring back the modified Todd Haley playbook of the latter half of last season? We've got the same guy CALLING the plays.
We've added OBJ. He was supposed to make Callaway & Higgins much more productive. They're not. Higgins can't even see the field because Freddie hates him so much. WTF did he do. He's not talkin'. Baker is NOT the same as last year. It seems like he's in a universe that is quite different than from whence he came.
- I'm not even talking about the defense. We no longer have Peppers playing goalie while everyone else is on the other side of the 50....
Everybody always wants to blame the play caller. Bruce Ariens was blamed for our offensive problems years ago. But he proved it wasn't his fault.
I think it's the plays themselves. (although I wouldn't bet my vette on it) I bet if we went back to that simplified Haley playbook of last year we'd do better. But it also could be the defenses that we've faced so far (it doesn't get any easier this week against the Bills).
Of course, everyone and their brother, the media, including the weather man, wants Freddie fired. But those same people wanted Bill Belleyache fired too.
Now, if I'm right, and it's the plays themselves, their design.....then Freddie will have to be fired because he's not relinquishing his playbook and not giving up the play calling. And I don't think he's regarded as the best game time decision manager at this point in time.
I heard Freddie defend why Hilliard was in the backfield on 4th and 1 instead of Chubb. He said that Hilliard was their 3rd down back and that perhaps they might honor the pass instead of just keying the QB sneak. But I think with 67 checking in as an eligible receiver and a tightly stacked line, Hilliard wasn't gonna get it and that it was a QB sneak, whereas with Chubb being back there then the QB sneak might have come into question....and that Chubb may be getting it so, keep your head up for that instead of just hitting the LOS.
I dunno. I'm surprised that at this point in the season we're not good enough to win.
I didn't drink the cool-aide. I didn't think that the kid who snuck onto the roster and returned a punt for a TD in preseason would make the team, and I didn't think that we would be winning the super bowl. I had us at 9-7......racking up wins in the latter half of the season. I suppose that could still happen.....but I'm not feeling it any more.
I'm sooooooo confused........(and disappointed....disappointed for me, the rest of us fans, and for the players).
I'm sooooooo confused........(and disappointed....disappointed for me, the rest of us fans, and for the players).
I could have basically written this entire post. It mirrors my total thought process and I guess the simple answer is, "Nobody has any freaking clue wtf to do."
It's a mix of several things, like you mentioned. For one, Baker has confidence issues. The fact that we don't throw it down the field hardly EVER is proof of this. I've said it before and I'll mention it again. Baker threw ONE pass over 20 yards in the last game. The scary thing about that is we have deep routes on virtually every pass route, so if you aren't stretching the field for weeks at a time, and it's also a superb mind screw to the receivers. Have you ever thought of that? Do you know how disheartening it is to run your ass off down the field ALL game and NEVER get a chance to make a play?
I'm gonna tell you something else. Many people are pissed off about Baker missing OBJ on the last 4th down play, and I was one of them. However, Baker made the correct read to Landry but he made it too LATE. Landry was briefly open and it would have been an easy throw, but Baker didn't throw it on time for whatever reason. It's hard to nail down, but it's almost like whatever can go wrong DOES go wrong. I mean, Jesus...look at the 4th down Baker sneak. The refs ALWAYS give the QB that spot. Almost always! If you watched the play and then watched the far sideline ref, that asshole runs BACKWARDS after Baker got enough for the first. I can't explain it. The ref was beyond the line to gain, but ran backwards after Baker was down. I've never seen it before in my life. But that's my point...whatever CAN go wrong...goes wrong.
And something else...where the eff are our stars at? Denzel Ward is in perfect position to make a play on the ball and doesn't do an EFFING THING to prevent Sutton from catching it. Ward literally waits for the ball to come to him and doesn't even get his body in position to deflect the ball. What in the actual FREAK Denzel? Where the heck was Myles Garrett?
Check out the link to an article showing Baker patting the ball per usual and not delivering it to Landry on time. He had TWO PEOPLE OPEN, never mind going deep to OBJ. He was late, he didn't trust himself, and that's not something you get back midway during the year.
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I'm sooooooo confused........(and disappointed....disappointed for me, the rest of us fans, and for the players).
I could have basically written this entire post. It mirrors my total thought process and I guess the simple answer is, "Nobody has any freaking clue wtf to do."
It's a mix of several things, like you mentioned. For one, Baker has confidence issues. The fact that we don't throw it down the field hardly EVER is proof of this. I've said it before and I'll mention it again. Baker threw ONE pass over 20 yards in the last game. The scary thing about that is we have deep routes on virtually every pass route, so if you aren't stretching the field for weeks at a time, and it's also a superb mind screw to the receivers. Have you ever thought of that? Do you know how disheartening it is to run your ass off down the field ALL game and NEVER get a chance to make a play?
I'm gonna tell you something else. Many people are pissed off about Baker missing OBJ on the last 4th down play, and I was one of them. However, Baker made the correct read to Landry but he made it too LATE. Landry was briefly open and it would have been an easy throw, but Baker didn't throw it on time for whatever reason. It's hard to nail down, but it's almost like whatever can go wrong DOES go wrong. I mean, Jesus...look at the 4th down Baker sneak. The refs ALWAYS give the QB that spot. Almost always! If you watched the play and then watched the far sideline ref, that asshole runs BACKWARDS after Baker got enough for the first. I can't explain it. The ref was beyond the line to gain, but ran backwards after Baker was down. I've never seen it before in my life. But that's my point...whatever CAN go wrong...goes wrong.
And something else...where the eff are our stars at? Denzel Ward is in perfect position to make a play on the ball and doesn't do an EFFING THING to prevent Sutton from catching it. Ward literally waits for the ball to come to him and doesn't even get his body in position to deflect the ball. What in the actual FREAK Denzel? Where the heck was Myles Garrett?
Check out the link to an article showing Baker patting the ball per usual and not delivering it to Landry on time. He had TWO PEOPLE OPEN, never mind going deep to OBJ. He was late, he didn't trust himself, and that's not something you get back midway during the year.
people are pissed off about Baker missing OBJ on the last 4th down play, and I was one of them. However, Baker made the correct read to Landry but he made it too LATE. Landry was briefly open and it would have been an easy throw
I have been noticing that this year. During replays sometimes you can see that his man was open, he sees but hesitates, then throws it too late and it's defended or is delivered behind the receiver because he can't lead him into the defender who is NOW 'in play' whereas he wouldn't have been if he threw it on time. It's like, THIS YEAR, the game is just a little too fast for him.
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
Two things 1) Freddie is not a head coach 2) Baker has something going on none of us know. I am absolutely convinced of that. He complet regression from record breaker to practice squad QB is not just coaching.
Two things 1) Freddie is not a head coach 2) Baker has something going on none of us know. I am absolutely convinced of that. He complet regression from record breaker to practice squad QB is not just coaching.
Unfortunately I think you're right on both fronts. Freddie is really starting to get lit up publicly for his personnel decisions and his lack of knowing wtf to do during games. On one of our used timeouts, he didn't get the play in on time because he was yelling at the ref. That's despicable and bullshit. He's the idiot who decided he was calling the plays and he's GOT to understand the importance of timeouts.
And one more thing. Mother eff our defense. Those assholes haven't gotten a clutch stop since the dawn of time. Actually, they got ONE during the Rams game, but naturally our offense shit the sheets. Well, more like Freddie. Ugh...
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people are pissed off about Baker missing OBJ on the last 4th down play, and I was one of them. However, Baker made the correct read to Landry but he made it too LATE. Landry was briefly open and it would have been an easy throw
I have been noticing that this year. During replays sometimes you can see that his man was open, he sees but hesitates, then throws it too late and it's defended or is delivered behind the receiver because he can't lead him into the defender who is NOW 'in play' whereas he wouldn't have been if he threw it on time. It's like, THIS YEAR, the game is just a little too fast for him.
I have been noticing that this year. During replays sometimes you can see that his man was open, he sees but hesitates, then throws it too late and it's defended or is delivered behind the receiver because he can't lead him into the defender who is NOW 'in play' whereas he wouldn't have been if he threw it on time. It's like, THIS YEAR, the game is just a little too fast for him.
Yeah, his touch is not there because he's not throwing with anticipation as he did so well last year & he's throwing it so hard (my guess) because he KNOWS he's late with the throw. It's obvious he's not comfortable and, mechanically, he's not the same.....I've said it before & I'll say it again...I wouldn't be surprised to learn he's playing hurt. We'll see.
Mike
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Opposing Defenses seem to be especially motivated against the Browns. I attribute "some" of that to the personalities of Baker Mayfield and OBJ. Those are the types of players Defenders salivate about laying a GOOD STICK on !
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Many have commented on Mayfield's "regression" this year. It's a little comical to talk about regression for a second-year QB, I think.
Last year he threw into double coverage a lot... a LOT... and got away with it.
This year he's trying to do the same - throw into double and triple coverage and rely on the strength of his arm to get the ball there... and is throwing more interceptions as a result because teams have better preparation for him. He hasn't developed a finesse pass, yet. Just throw it hard. Understandable. He's only in his second year.
So, now he's gun shy. Doesn't want to throw interceptions, so he's late... or second guesses himself... or - worst of all - tries to throw even harder. Classic sophomore season.
Did you REALLY expect anything else? If so, then just review the overwhelming history of QBs who started playing right out of college... it's not pretty. And it goes to show that this RARELY works. You can't expect instant gratification. It just doesn't work that way. Never did. Still doesn't, despite the expectations of teams and fans.
As an end note, I would point out that there is history on his side in the form of other hard-throwing QBs who struggled in their first few seasons until they learned the game. John Elway comes to mind. We can talk Mayfield in 2022 and we'll see what we're saying then.
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Many have commented on Mayfield's "regression" this year. It's a little comical to talk about regression for a second-year QB, I think.
Last year he threw into double coverage a lot... a LOT... and got away with it.
This year he's trying to do the same - throw into double and triple coverage and rely on the strength of his arm to get the ball there... and is throwing more interceptions as a result because teams have better preparation for him. He hasn't developed a finesse pass, yet. Just throw it hard. Understandable. He's only in his second year.
So, now he's gun shy. Doesn't want to throw interceptions, so he's late... or second guesses himself... or - worst of all - tries to throw even harder. Classic sophomore season.
Did you REALLY expect anything else? If so, then just review the overwhelming history of QBs who started playing right out of college... it's not pretty. And it goes to show that this RARELY works. You can't expect instant gratification. It just doesn't work that way. Never did. Still doesn't, despite the expectations of teams and fans.
As an end note, I would point out that there is history on his side in the form of other hard-throwing QBs who struggled in their first few seasons until they learned the game. John Elway comes to mind. We can talk Mayfield in 2022 and we'll see what we're saying then.
Many have commented on Mayfield's "regression" this year. It's a little comical to talk about regression for a second-year QB, I think.
Last year he threw into double coverage a lot... a LOT... and got away with it.
This year he's trying to do the same - throw into double and triple coverage and rely on the strength of his arm to get the ball there... and is throwing more interceptions as a result because teams have better preparation for him. He hasn't developed a finesse pass, yet. Just throw it hard. Understandable. He's only in his second year.
So, now he's gun shy. Doesn't want to throw interceptions, so he's late... or second guesses himself... or - worst of all - tries to throw even harder. Classic sophomore season.
Did you REALLY expect anything else? If so, then just review the overwhelming history of QBs who started playing right out of college... it's not pretty. And it goes to show that this RARELY works. You can't expect instant gratification. It just doesn't work that way. Never did. Still doesn't, despite the expectations of teams and fans.
As an end note, I would point out that there is history on his side in the form of other hard-throwing QBs who struggled in their first few seasons until they learned the game. John Elway comes to mind. We can talk Mayfield in 2022 and we'll see what we're saying then.
You make some good points & I agree with most. Baker DID show outstanding anticipation & touch late last year & I think he's smart & determined enough that he will study "then" & learn from "now". There was a time when rookie QBs seldom saw the field for 2 or 3 years. We need some patience..Baker (IMHO) will be fine.
Mike
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SOMEBODY knows! SOMEBODY in the Berea complex knows!
I doubt that it's all on Zeitler and Duke being traded.
Is it the plays? Who's playbook are we using? Freddie's? Monken's? A mixture? Do we need to bring back the modified Todd Haley playbook of the latter half of last season? We've got the same guy CALLING the plays.
We've added OBJ. He was supposed to make Callaway & Higgins much more productive. They're not. Higgins can't even see the field because Freddie hates him so much. WTF did he do. He's not talkin'. Baker is NOT the same as last year. It seems like he's in a universe that is quite different than from whence he came.
- I'm not even talking about the defense. We no longer have Peppers playing goalie while everyone else is on the other side of the 50....
Everybody always wants to blame the play caller. Bruce Ariens was blamed for our offensive problems years ago. But he proved it wasn't his fault.
I think it's the plays themselves. (although I wouldn't bet my vette on it) I bet if we went back to that simplified Haley playbook of last year we'd do better. But it also could be the defenses that we've faced so far (it doesn't get any easier this week against the Bills).
Of course, everyone and their brother, the media, including the weather man, wants Freddie fired. But those same people wanted Bill Belleyache fired too.
Now, if I'm right, and it's the plays themselves, their design.....then Freddie will have to be fired because he's not relinquishing his playbook and not giving up the play calling. And I don't think he's regarded as the best game time decision manager at this point in time.
I heard Freddie defend why Hilliard was in the backfield on 4th and 1 instead of Chubb. He said that Hilliard was their 3rd down back and that perhaps they might honor the pass instead of just keying the QB sneak. But I think with 67 checking in as an eligible receiver and a tightly stacked line, Hilliard wasn't gonna get it and that it was a QB sneak, whereas with Chubb being back there then the QB sneak might have come into question....and that Chubb may be getting it so, keep your head up for that instead of just hitting the LOS.
I dunno. I'm surprised that at this point in the season we're not good enough to win.
I didn't drink the cool-aide. I didn't think that the kid who snuck onto the roster and returned a punt for a TD in preseason would make the team, and I didn't think that we would be winning the super bowl. I had us at 9-7......racking up wins in the latter half of the season. I suppose that could still happen.....but I'm not feeling it any more.
I'm sooooooo confused........(and disappointed....disappointed for me, the rest of us fans, and for the players).
We're cursed.
We're cursed.
I thought you stormed off and quit this board?
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people are pissed off about Baker missing OBJ on the last 4th down play, and I was one of them. However, Baker made the correct read to Landry but he made it too LATE. Landry was briefly open and it would have been an easy throw
I have been noticing that this year. During replays sometimes you can see that his man was open, he sees but hesitates, then throws it too late and it's defended or is delivered behind the receiver because he can't lead him into the defender who is NOW 'in play' whereas he wouldn't have been if he threw it on time. It's like, THIS YEAR, the game is just a little too fast for him.
I have been noticing that this year. During replays sometimes you can see that his man was open, he sees but hesitates, then throws it too late and it's defended or is delivered behind the receiver because he can't lead him into the defender who is NOW 'in play' whereas he wouldn't have been if he threw it on time. It's like, THIS YEAR, the game is just a little too fast for him.
Check out this article explaining our 3rd and 4th downs. I'm actually going to post it as its own thread because I think it's that important and many people will be shocked when they read it. The article is very well done and incorporates several videos to illustrate its points. The play we're discussing on that 4th down is super awful for a few reasons. First, like we said, Baker was late to Landry. Secondly, Harris HAD to run the wrong route or our offensive coaches are MORONS. You never want to have two receivers occupying the same part of the field like that! Had Harris gone vertical or to the outside, he would've taken his defender with him.
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Zombo said:
First and foremost... it's Baker. Our defense isnt great, but it would be good enough if we were scoring like the second half of last year. Our quarterback play is near the bottom of the league and that is how you lose.
So how do you make him more effective? Hunt will help. If Nojoku comes back that will help. Those guys can catch the short routes and free up Landry and OBJ downfield.
The Higgins thing is a mystery to me too. Why isnt he playing? I smell Dorsey on that one. But Baker likes him, so play him.
Then there are Baker's blockers. We've got two starters on a healthy offensive line that are two of the worst at their position in the league... RG and LT. That's on Dorsey. But Joe Thomas and Kevin Zeitler aren't walking through that door, so we have to scheme better to protect our weaknesses and give Baker a chance to get his mojo back.
Z
Well, there is all that, but mostly, I view it as poor coaching, scheming, play calling. Not that Baker and others are blameless, but the fact is, a guy like John Harbaugh can take a less talented team and win some big games, and Freddie can't win games against weak opponents.
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Zombo said:
First and foremost... it's Baker. Our defense isnt great, but it would be good enough if we were scoring like the second half of last year. Our quarterback play is near the bottom of the league and that is how you lose.
So how do you make him more effective? Hunt will help. If Nojoku comes back that will help. Those guys can catch the short routes and free up Landry and OBJ downfield.
The Higgins thing is a mystery to me too. Why isnt he playing? I smell Dorsey on that one. But Baker likes him, so play him.
Then there are Baker's blockers. We've got two starters on a healthy offensive line that are two of the worst at their position in the league... RG and LT. That's on Dorsey. But Joe Thomas and Kevin Zeitler aren't walking through that door, so we have to scheme better to protect our weaknesses and give Baker a chance to get his mojo back.
Z
Well, there is all that, but mostly, I view it as poor coaching, scheming, play calling. Not that Baker and others are blameless, but the fact is, a guy like John Harbaugh can take a less talented team and win some big games, and Freddie can't win games against weak opponents.
a guy like John Harbaugh can take a less talented team and win some big games, and Freddie can't win games against weak opponents.
The best teams with "less talent" have way stronger Offensive lines. We do not have that and it shows.
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a guy like John Harbaugh can take a less talented team and win some big games, and Freddie can't win games against weak opponents.
The best teams with "less talent" have way stronger Offensive lines. We do not have that and it shows.
The best teams with "less talent" have way stronger Offensive lines. We do not have that and it shows.
That is a factor, sure. Not, to my mind, a determining factor.
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The best teams with "less talent" have way stronger Offensive lines. We do not have that and it shows.
That is a factor, sure. Not, to my mind, a determining factor.
That is a factor, sure. Not, to my mind, a determining factor.
Kitchens certainly isn’t Harbaugh but he is only halfway through his first season as an HC. Also coaching one of the youngest teams in the league.
It ain’t over till the fat lady sings.. -
The problem is plan to see. To use a golf analogy, Baker and Fred are pressing. Last year there was no pressure and they didn’t know what they had and Fred was just a play caller. Now bakers has expectations. Fred is running the show. So they have dialed back the big plays for “safe” plays and it’s back fired bad.
Hey, Tour de France the King of the Mountains jersey is red polka dots.
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