Jets Fan on Mangini
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FYI, no DB had as more than 3 sacks last year.
There were only 19 (9 CB's and 10 S's) with more than 1 sack on the year....and that number drops to 15 if you go with a minimum of 2 sacks. Only 5 DB's had 3 sacks on the year.
Geez, I LOVE IT when people make assumptions without making at least a cursury check of the stats.
Only 3 teams had multiple DB's with multiple sacks (Phi/Cin/NE).
Oh well...enough said...the Jets were one of only 16 teams with a DB with multiple sacks...and it was ABRAM ELAM with 2.
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Jets had 41 sacks last year. What'd we have, 17? This guy is pissed the secondary didn't have a ton of sacks? Sure there are some good points in here we need to beware of, but as a whole it seems he is unwilling to give any credit to Mangini. Oh well, like the Zen Master always says: "We'll see."
Wow...I just checked the Cowboys...and they had 4 (yes FOUR) sacks by DB's last year...and they led the league with 59 sacks. And the Steelers? How about 1 out of 51 sacks!!!
The Eagles were pretty aggressive with their DB's and may very well have led the league in secondary sacks...with a total of 8 out of 48 sacks.
So, having 6 out of 41 is pretty damn aggressive.
Wow...I just checked the Cowboys...and they had 4 (yes FOUR) sacks by DB's last year...and they led the league with 59 sacks. And the Steelers? How about 1 out of 51 sacks!!!
The Eagles were pretty aggressive with their DB's and may very well have led the league in secondary sacks...with a total of 8 out of 48 sacks.
So, having 6 out of 41 is pretty damn aggressive.
I, uh, "borrowed" your stats and posted a reply on the PD website.
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What this Jets guy doesn't know apparently is that his statement could have been written by a Browns fan circa 1996 about a guy that used to be the Head Coach here in Cleveland. Stubborn. Loyal to a fault to HIS players (but if you were not one of his players, screw you). Not big on blitzing. Secretive. etc. etc. etc. So, that guy went on in his second job to win 3 Super Bowls. Of course,that does not mean the same thing will happen here....but it doesn't mean that it won't.
(Besides, correct me if I am right...but Mangini was brought in here before Kokinis, not the other way around).
And this guy has no clue whether or not these guys suck. Maybe, just maybe there are 3-4 Hall of Fame players in the group he mentions. Who knows anything at this point.
Honestly, in watching football I wouldn't get hung up so much on specific tactics. You can win a football game or a championship with any particular kind of tactic if the talent is there and the organization and motivation is there.
The fact is Mangini was a young coach and he did not want to buck history and be the one that made Brett Favre ride the pine and break his games started streak. I suspect there was a ton of pressure from forces beyond Mangini to let Favre go down guns blazing....even if on many occasions he was at a point where he was shooting blanks.
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Hey guys,
I joined the forum last week (or so), just to ask Jet-Browns related questions, but threads like this are so inviting.
Mangini's defense was kind of bland in the beginning in all 3 years in New York. The first 2 years, the blitz packages became more aggressive after the bye week, and last year was slowly eased into it, although our defense took a big blow when Jenkins got hurt (he was way overworked). You have 2 stud DT/NT types in Rodgers and Tuba that can take the pressure off of each other (I stated in another thread, I believe your defensive line is much more capable of being successful in the style of defense that Mangini likes). Yes, he likes his DB blitzes, as evident when Kerry Rhodes had 4 or 5 sacks 2 years ago, and a few others by defensive backs in the same season. Sometimes the defense became slightly "fancy" for lack of a better word, but we really didn't have the personnel to pull it off.
If your defensive line can hold up, you're going to like his defense. If not, be prepared to let up a lot of rushing yards, as the D-Linemen are expected to play 2 gap and let the LBs move to the ball. LBs are expected to contain the ball in front of them, and also asked to drop back into coverage more than the average NFL LB does (this is all how it was in New York, so hopefully for the 09 Browns, Mangini has a much more aggressive scheme). You have good players on the defensive side of the ball, and from an outside view, I'd expect your defense to be able to be in AT LEAST the top half of the league.
I hope this helped a little
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The Jets notched 41 sacks last year, but 29 of those came in the first eight games of the season. While the Jets notched four or more sacks in six of their first eight games, they didn't notch four sacks in any of the games after that.
Favre's implosion had a lot to do with the Jets not making the playoffs, but some Jets fans also blamed Mangini and DC Bob Sutton. In the last four losses of the season, Favre threw nine picks, and the Jets' defense only notched three sacks. That's a pretty nasty combination.
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The only difference between Mangini New York and Mangini Cleveland is that he has more power here. In New York, the owner/GM controlled the vision of the franchise. Here, Mangini does through a "shared" vision with Lerner and Kok. We saw it how the Jets/Mangini and Browns/Mangini ran the offseason. Alot of differences.
If Mangini can't improve his gameday coaching and not exhausting his players in Augest , his teams will continue to suffer down the stretch.
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Hey guys,
I joined the forum last week (or so), just to ask Jet-Browns related questions, but threads like this are so inviting.
Mangini's defense was kind of bland in the beginning in all 3 years in New York. The first 2 years, the blitz packages became more aggressive after the bye week, and last year was slowly eased into it, although our defense took a big blow when Jenkins got hurt (he was way overworked). You have 2 stud DT/NT types in Rodgers and Tuba that can take the pressure off of each other (I stated in another thread, I believe your defensive line is much more capable of being successful in the style of defense that Mangini likes). Yes, he likes his DB blitzes, as evident when Kerry Rhodes had 4 or 5 sacks 2 years ago, and a few others by defensive backs in the same season. Sometimes the defense became slightly "fancy" for lack of a better word, but we really didn't have the personnel to pull it off.
If your defensive line can hold up, you're going to like his defense. If not, be prepared to let up a lot of rushing yards, as the D-Linemen are expected to play 2 gap and let the LBs move to the ball. LBs are expected to contain the ball in front of them, and also asked to drop back into coverage more than the average NFL LB does (this is all how it was in New York, so hopefully for the 09 Browns, Mangini has a much more aggressive scheme). You have good players on the defensive side of the ball, and from an outside view, I'd expect your defense to be able to be in AT LEAST the top half of the league.
I hope this helped a little
Hey guys,
I joined the forum last week (or so), just to ask Jet-Browns related questions, but threads like this are so inviting.
Mangini's defense was kind of bland in the beginning in all 3 years in New York. The first 2 years, the blitz packages became more aggressive after the bye week, and last year was slowly eased into it, although our defense took a big blow when Jenkins got hurt (he was way overworked). You have 2 stud DT/NT types in Rodgers and Tuba that can take the pressure off of each other (I stated in another thread, I believe your defensive line is much more capable of being successful in the style of defense that Mangini likes). Yes, he likes his DB blitzes, as evident when Kerry Rhodes had 4 or 5 sacks 2 years ago, and a few others by defensive backs in the same season. Sometimes the defense became slightly "fancy" for lack of a better word, but we really didn't have the personnel to pull it off.
If your defensive line can hold up, you're going to like his defense. If not, be prepared to let up a lot of rushing yards, as the D-Linemen are expected to play 2 gap and let the LBs move to the ball. LBs are expected to contain the ball in front of them, and also asked to drop back into coverage more than the average NFL LB does (this is all how it was in New York, so hopefully for the 09 Browns, Mangini has a much more aggressive scheme). You have good players on the defensive side of the ball, and from an outside view, I'd expect your defense to be able to be in AT LEAST the top half of the league.
I hope this helped a little
Boy, I wish I was as confident as you about how "good" these players are. I have been under the impression their is a distinct void of talent for the most part on the Browns side of the ball. I hope some of these imports and rookie prove you right.
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Formerly Stone said:
As someone without a dog in this race, I see some silly comments in this guys report.1. Isn't it just remotely possible that if your front office brought in the side show known as Brett Favre you, as the head coach, may be strongly motivated to play him if he's alive?
2. He rants about the piss-poor defensive play and then later says that Manginis performance shows he should have been the D coordinator instead of the head coach.
3. He acts as if Kokinis was hiring Mangini "because" he came from the same background as Crennel....what does Crennel have to do with anything?.....I think it may be Belichicks influence that consistently get his people hired elsewhere.
And, to reiterate, Mangini was hired first. This is supposed to be more like the Belichick/Scott Pioli relationship was. The HC is the head man, not the GM.
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The original article had some good points and interesting statistics... which were marred by a thick layer of stupidity and thoughtless finger pointing.
I'm suprised he didn't say that it was Mangini's fault that Favre was injured. Apparently every point given up was directly his fault.
I have heard that Mangini has a stubborn refusal to change game plans and preferred a lazy, reaction-style defense before, but this article was a horrible way to present those facts. Hell, the defense gripe is pretty much a moot point, considering what Rob Ryan has been doing with our defensive players lately.
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this guy is a xxxxing idiot. he doesn't know shit, especially about our team.
for instance:
is it possible the Jets F.O. pulled rank and made the call to keep Favre in there rather than Mangini?
picking up 5, THAT'S 5 PLAYERS in positions of need for a single 1st rd pick?
whining that Coleman only had 8.5 sacks in his career--we're talking about a d-lineman here. plus he's a late bloomer-the guy had the most tackles for a d-lineman in '07 (108?)and is slated to play beside the d-lineman who had the most in '08 (Rogers)...bookended by arguably our best D-End in Robaire. hmmmmm.
how exactly is Brett Ratliff undersized at 6'4" 225 lbs?
minimizing safety Abe Elam as "untalented" after he cites that the guy single-handedly won a game for them making a play they were definitely not known for? sour grapes anyone?
why would Kokinis hire a guy from the Belicheck tree? how about Mangini hired him you xxxxing know-nothing-ass-hat.
nice propoganda piece.
With a Browns team that lacks talent in the secondary.....
?!?!why even bother with this guy?
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this guy is a xxxxing idiot. he doesn't know shit, especially about our team.
for instance:
is it possible the Jets F.O. pulled rank and made the call to keep Favre in there rather than Mangini?
picking up 5, THAT'S 5 PLAYERS in positions of need for a single 1st rd pick?
whining that Coleman only had 8.5 sacks in his career--we're talking about a d-lineman here. plus he's a late bloomer-the guy had the most tackles for a d-lineman in '07 (108?)and is slated to play beside the d-lineman who had the most in '08 (Rogers)...bookended by arguably our best D-End in Robaire. hmmmmm.
how exactly is Brett Ratliff undersized at 6'4" 225 lbs?
minimizing safety Abe Elam as "untalented" after he cites that the guy single-handedly won a game for them making a play they were definitely not known for? sour grapes anyone?
why would Kokinis hire a guy from the Belicheck tree? how about Mangini hired him you xxxxing know-nothing-ass-hat.
nice propoganda piece.
With a Browns team that lacks talent in the secondary.....
?!?!why even bother with this guy?
this guy is a xxxxing idiot. he doesn't know shit about our team.
for instance:
is it possible the Jets owners pulled rank and made the call to keep Favre in there rather than Mangini?
picking up 5, THAT'S 5 PLAYERS in positions of need for a single 1st rd pick?
whining that Coleman only had 8.5 sacks in his career--we're talking about a d-lineman here. plus he's a late bloomer-the guy had the most tackles for a d-lineman in '07 (108?)and is slated to play beside the d-lineman who had the most in '08 (Rogers)...bookended by arguably our best D-End in Robaire. hmmmmm.
how exactly is Brett Ratliff undersized at 6'4" 225 lbs?
minimizing safety Elam as untalented after he cites that the guy single-handedly won a game for them making a play they were definitely not known for. sour grapes anyone?
why would Kokinis hire a guy from the Belicheck tree? how about Mangini hired him you xxxxing know-nothing-ass-hat.
i quit there, nice propoganda piece.
why even bother with this guy?
Mangini has upgraded every position on this team. We are set.
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The only difference between Mangini New York and Mangini Cleveland is that he has more power here. In New York, the owner/GM controlled the vision of the franchise. Here, Mangini does through a "shared" vision with Lerner and Kok. We saw it how the Jets/Mangini and Browns/Mangini ran the offseason. Alot of differences.
If Mangini can't improve his gameday coaching and not exhausting his players in Augest , his teams will continue to suffer down the stretch.
The only difference between Mangini New York and Mangini Cleveland is that he has more power here. In New York, the owner/GM controlled the vision of the franchise. Here, Mangini does through a "shared" vision with Lerner and Kok. We saw it how the Jets/Mangini and Browns/Mangini ran the offseason. Alot of differences.
If Mangini can't improve his gameday coaching and not exhausting his players in Augest , his teams will continue to suffer down the stretch.
it does seem like the handcuffs are off in CLE, so the REAL ERIC will probably stand up.
some of the characteristic decisions may have actually been uncharacteristic of Mangy due to micromanagement by the Brass in NY.
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Was it Cowhers defense that won a super bowl or was it LeBeau's????? Was it Tomliins defense that won a super bowl or was it LeBeau's????
When will people finally get it.... It's not the head coaches offense or defense---it's the coordinators....
The head coach is the CEO of the football team.... In most places that I worked I rarely saw the CEO on the shop floor....
This is Ryans defense now here in Cleveland... They'll take on his personality and be controlled by him... As Terry Pluto put it, the coordinators are the head coaches for their respective units on game day....
As far as Mangini sticking with Favre, come on... You don't bench a hall of famer going down the stretch.... That was out of Mangini's control, if he would have benched Favre and they still lost could you imagine the field day the New York media would have had with that one....
So far I'm happy with almost everything Mangini has done... My one concern is I hope we don't burn out in summer camp to the point we run out of gas in November and December....
Peace
T.Dawg
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Hey guys,
I joined the forum last week (or so), just to ask Jet-Browns related questions, but threads like this are so inviting.
Mangini's defense was kind of bland in the beginning in all 3 years in New York. The first 2 years, the blitz packages became more aggressive after the bye week, and last year was slowly eased into it, although our defense took a big blow when Jenkins got hurt (he was way overworked). You have 2 stud DT/NT types in Rodgers and Tuba that can take the pressure off of each other (I stated in another thread, I believe your defensive line is much more capable of being successful in the style of defense that Mangini likes). Yes, he likes his DB blitzes, as evident when Kerry Rhodes had 4 or 5 sacks 2 years ago, and a few others by defensive backs in the same season. Sometimes the defense became slightly "fancy" for lack of a better word, but we really didn't have the personnel to pull it off.
If your defensive line can hold up, you're going to like his defense. If not, be prepared to let up a lot of rushing yards, as the D-Linemen are expected to play 2 gap and let the LBs move to the ball. LBs are expected to contain the ball in front of them, and also asked to drop back into coverage more than the average NFL LB does (this is all how it was in New York, so hopefully for the 09 Browns, Mangini has a much more aggressive scheme). You have good players on the defensive side of the ball, and from an outside view, I'd expect your defense to be able to be in AT LEAST the top half of the league.
I hope this helped a little
Boy, I wish I was as confident as you about how "good" these players are. I have been under the impression their is a distinct void of talent for the most part on the Browns side of the ball. I hope some of these imports and rookie prove you right.
Boy, I wish I was as confident as you about how "good" these players are. I have been under the impression their is a distinct void of talent for the most part on the Browns side of the ball. I hope some of these imports and rookie prove you right.
I think there are a lot of good players on the Browns. Listen, 2 years ago you finished 10-6, under Crennel, and accomplished a lot of really good things that year. Unfortunately you didn't make the playoffs, but you were set up for success in 08. Whatever happened in 08, I believe that 07 wasn't an anomaly. I think that overall, the Browns have more talent than the Jets, ESPECIALLY at key positions (QB/WR - NT/DE - OT). Your QB situation alone puts ours to shame, and Mangini will use that and make himself a better coach (he's all about becoming better every year). As I look at your schedule, the travel is not difficult, and if I give you guys an 0-4 against Baltimore and Pittsburgh for the year, I still have you at 8-8. I'm a Browns believer, just from what I've seen the last couple of years.
That Monday night game against the Giants last year was awesome, but the team couldn't recover from the rocky start. Quinn showed signs of being good, but got injured. You had no luck last year, either. sometimes it's about luck, health, and in the case of the Patriots, extra video tapes.
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@inspecta said:
Bull that is my only concern as well.Does anybody remember that ESPN movie they did on Bear Bryant played by Tom Berenger? I think it was called Junction Boys or something like that. It was basically about how effin' tough he ran his summer camp, and at the end of the movie it recalled the season and Bryant lamented how hard he was on them in the summer because basically they had the shit beat out of them and had nothing left for the actual season.
Coaches can do that sometimes, they think they are making their guys tougher, meaner, stronger but in reality they're just wearing them out. I had a coach like that in high school. He had a thing called pre-practice and would call all the linemen out of the field house way before the rest of the team, and on gamedays he would have us do hitting drills and bull in a ring type shit in the pre game warmups. He was a dumbf*ck to be sure cause we were gased before kickoffs. The head coach basically put a stop to that shit after week 2 of our season when we had 3 guys go down with cramps or other fatigue related injury.
Good analogy. That's what the players talked about after Mangini's first year in New York.
That movie was terrible, however.
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Boy, I wish I was as confident as you about how "good" these players are. I have been under the impression their is a distinct void of talent for the most part on the Browns side of the ball. I hope some of these imports and rookie prove you right.
I think there are a lot of good players on the Browns. Listen, 2 years ago you finished 10-6, under Crennel, and accomplished a lot of really good things that year. Unfortunately you didn't make the playoffs, but you were set up for success in 08. Whatever happened in 08, I believe that 07 wasn't an anomaly. I think that overall, the Browns have more talent than the Jets, ESPECIALLY at key positions (QB/WR - NT/DE - OT). Your QB situation alone puts ours to shame, and Mangini will use that and make himself a better coach (he's all about becoming better every year). As I look at your schedule, the travel is not difficult, and if I give you guys an 0-4 against Baltimore and Pittsburgh for the year, I still have you at 8-8. I'm a Browns believer, just from what I've seen the last couple of years.
That Monday night game against the Giants last year was awesome, but the team couldn't recover from the rocky start. Quinn showed signs of being good, but got injured. You had no luck last year, either. sometimes it's about luck, health, and in the case of the Patriots, extra video tapes.
I think there are a lot of good players on the Browns. Listen, 2 years ago you finished 10-6, under Crennel, and accomplished a lot of really good things that year. Unfortunately you didn't make the playoffs, but you were set up for success in 08. Whatever happened in 08, I believe that 07 wasn't an anomaly. I think that overall, the Browns have more talent than the Jets, ESPECIALLY at key positions (QB/WR - NT/DE - OT). Your QB situation alone puts ours to shame, and Mangini will use that and make himself a better coach (he's all about becoming better every year). As I look at your schedule, the travel is not difficult, and if I give you guys an 0-4 against Baltimore and Pittsburgh for the year, I still have you at 8-8. I'm a Browns believer, just from what I've seen the last couple of years.
That Monday night game against the Giants last year was awesome, but the team couldn't recover from the rocky start. Quinn showed signs of being good, but got injured. You had no luck last year, either. sometimes it's about luck, health, and in the case of the Patriots, extra video tapes.
Yeah, that Giants game makes me proud. Anderson and co bitchslapped the NY giants. Everyone had Giants picked too. Anyway, the loss of JJ had hurt the wide reciever position. If JJ doesn't get staph, we go 10-6. Seriously.
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I think there are a lot of good players on the Browns. Listen, 2 years ago you finished 10-6, under Crennel, and accomplished a lot of really good things that year. Unfortunately you didn't make the playoffs, but you were set up for success in 08. Whatever happened in 08, I believe that 07 wasn't an anomaly. I think that overall, the Browns have more talent than the Jets, ESPECIALLY at key positions (QB/WR - NT/DE - OT). Your QB situation alone puts ours to shame, and Mangini will use that and make himself a better coach (he's all about becoming better every year). As I look at your schedule, the travel is not difficult, and if I give you guys an 0-4 against Baltimore and Pittsburgh for the year, I still have you at 8-8. I'm a Browns believer, just from what I've seen the last couple of years.
That Monday night game against the Giants last year was awesome, but the team couldn't recover from the rocky start. Quinn showed signs of being good, but got injured. You had no luck last year, either. sometimes it's about luck, health, and in the case of the Patriots, extra video tapes.
Yeah, that Giants game makes me proud. Anderson and co bitchslapped the NY giants. Everyone had Giants picked too. Anyway, the loss of JJ had hurt the wide reciever position. If JJ doesn't get staph, we go 10-6. Seriously.
Yeah, that Giants game makes me proud. Anderson and co bitchslapped the NY giants. Everyone had Giants picked too. Anyway, the loss of JJ had hurt the wide reciever position. If JJ doesn't get staph, we go 10-6. Seriously.
Is that a realistic problem in the locker room in Cleveland, or was Kellen Winslow just opening his mouth for no reason? If it really is a problem, is it taken care of? At my academy it's a continuing problem, and a few guys have gotten mersa and have been hospitalized. I don't know if it was like that or not.
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The Giants game was a classic trap game. It was the silver bullet.
It wasn't reality. Yet, we continue to think this team has this amazing talent...........even though the roster will be 60% overturned probably by winter.
We stink right now. Accept that fact and hope for a better future.
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Yeah, that Giants game makes me proud. Anderson and co bitchslapped the NY giants. Everyone had Giants picked too. Anyway, the loss of JJ had hurt the wide reciever position. If JJ doesn't get staph, we go 10-6. Seriously.
Is that a realistic problem in the locker room in Cleveland, or was Kellen Winslow just opening his mouth for no reason? If it really is a problem, is it taken care of? At my academy it's a continuing problem, and a few guys have gotten mersa and have been hospitalized. I don't know if it was like that or not.
Is that a realistic problem in the locker room in Cleveland, or was Kellen Winslow just opening his mouth for no reason? If it really is a problem, is it taken care of? At my academy it's a continuing problem, and a few guys have gotten mersa and have been hospitalized. I don't know if it was like that or not.
It's a bit of a ongoing problem, and I'm pretty sure Winslow wasn't just mouthing off for no reasons. And for knowing if it is taken care of, I sure hope so. Staph infections suck.
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The Giants game was a classic trap game. It was the silver bullet.
It wasn't reality. Yet, we continue to think this team has this amazing talent...........even though the roster will be 60% overturned probably by winter.
We stink right now. Accept that fact and hope for a better future.
The Giants game was a classic trap game. It was the silver bullet.
It wasn't reality. Yet, we continue to think this team has this amazing talent...........even though the roster will be 60% overturned probably by winter.
We stink right now. Accept that fact and hope for a better future.
Quite the pessimistic one, eh? What is with you and your negativity. We don't have a bad team. We don't have amazing talent, but we have good talents across the board. We're middle of the road. We're not bad, but we're certainly not great.
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