Freddie fired
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It could be worse: Seahawks gave an object lesson last night in how not to manage the clock - and their coach isn't going anywhere.
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Theres more talent on this team, by far, than there has ever been since 1999. Dorsey took a team that won ONE game over two years and infused this level over two years.
man got enticed by the McVey mania and thought he had the next guru. He swung and missed and everyone knew it. But to say he needs to go too is just insane. A competent coach EASILY has this team at 9-7 or better.
but yeah, let’s can the best GM we’ve ever had in year two because he messed up a 2nd round pick.
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Well I'm wondering why Corbett did not work out here, got traded for a 5th round pick and is now the starting LG for the Rams?
Maybe it had more to do with coaching than picking. Not that I give Dorsey any credit for the OBJ trade depleting a thin OL either. That helped turn Baker from a seasoned soph into a starting rookie. And as that QB class plays out it will be interesting to see how he ends up in the long run. I still think the right coaching can turn him into another Brees capable of reading the defenses, changing the plays and finding the right receivers while moving safeties like pinballs with his eyes the way Brees does it.
Well I'm wondering why Corbett did not work out here, got traded for a 5th round pick and is now the starting LG for the Rams?
Maybe it had more to do with coaching than picking. Not that I give Dorsey any credit for the OBJ trade depleting a thin OL either. That helped turn Baker from a seasoned soph into a starting rookie. And as that QB class plays out it will be interesting to see how he ends up in the long run. I still think the right coaching can turn him into another Brees capable of reading the defenses, changing the plays and finding the right receivers while moving safeties like pinballs with his eyes the way Brees does it.
Interesting. I didn’t know Corbett was starting for the Rams. Could be hope for him yet.
I would say not all of Dorsey’s moves were awful this year. Gillan was a ballsy move that seems to have worked out. Seibert had a decent year. Sure, he missed some kicks but seemed to have a timeliness with the kicks he missed, like he didn’t blow any obvious game winners.
Greedy and Mack Wilson showed some promise on defense. I like Forbes as a developmental guy and maybe Taki squared too.
The OBJ move? l get both sides of it, the positives and negatives, but we did get a glimpse yesterday of what he can bring to the table. That TD catch was a pro’s pro of a catch.
And Dorsey’s approach to fixing the Oline was a sorta goofy shotgun approach, like “let’s sign 10 guys for 3 jobs” kind of thing, and it took all year to sort, but maybe Teller is a keeper and puts us basically where we were before trading Zeitler at a fraction of the cost.
I do get the impression he’s a hands on GM, for better or worse, but at least he’s involved and presumably aware of what’s really going on with the team, which likely played a part in parting ways with Kitchens after only one year.
Oh, and resigning Tretter was a positive imo.
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Corbett isn’t doing well even if he’s starting for the Rams. He’s still weak at the point of attack.
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Man, is the bar set THIS low that we'd settle for a guy like Dorsey just because he added a few decent players? No GM hits on every pick, but the Corbett pick was inexcusable. It was clearly an example of a "look at how smart I am!" pick, and that's total crap. When you're talking about really high picks, the process isn't that high. For example, did ANYONE have us taking Corbett at 33? No, of course not. Why? Because it was FREAKING dumb.
Here's another example. Many people had us taking Bradley Chubb at 4. Dorsey went with Ward, which is tough to argue with because Ward is a very solid CB, but where do we have most of our problems? Pass rush. The tandem if Garrett and Chubb could've been legendary for years, but noooooooo, Dorsey HAD to be cute. And what did he do to address the pass rush? He traded Kevin Zeitler for Olivier Vernon. Anyone happy with THAT trade? Anyone? Bueller?
I don't know, I think Dorsey is totally overrated, and that's why you heard reports of more than the coach being altered. If he was SO good, no team would've let Dorsey go .
If you wanted to see what a real pass rush looks like- I caught some of the 49ers Seahawks game....
If you wanted to see what a real pass rush looks like- I caught some of the 49ers Seahawks game....
The Niners spent a lot of premium picks on their dline. We can certainly do that too. They have found young competent talent with their back 7 and they have a lot of skilled guys that are on rookie deals.
eventually they will all get paid and they will be back to square one especially with the dline
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I'm going to put my opinion out there.
Please NO to Urban Meyer. That's a bad idea just waiting to happen. I'm very skeptical about Josh McDaniels. I would have loved to have brought in Rivera and kept the rest of the staff in tact, however, that does not seem like it is going to happen this time. This team needs a leader and someone who will hold them responsible. I'm not sure McDaniels can do that. I think front office people like him more than players and other coaches around the league. McCarthy would be interesting but I'm nervous he is going to come in and clean house. Does a college coach count? Is it Lincoln Riley or bust? I wonder how that would go over in the locker room. Rhule? The browns had Matt Campbell of ISU really high on their list last year. Can any of them come in and build a culture of winning?
One bit I keep reading about is the increased role of Depodesta and how his power may grow within the front office. I'm curious to see how this will play out. I know part of the reason Adam Berry left and went to Philadelphia (I hear he is in the running for the Jacksonville GM job) is because Dorsey completely skewed the interview process to Freddie. He was not thrilled about that and jumped went Philly offered. I wonder if Dorsey is going to be much more handcuffed this time around. Honestly, I hope so. His flaws which were his downfall in KC, maybe showing here in Cleveland. Great talent evaluator but does not know how to build a "team", hard to work with, keeps everything to himself, his way or the highway type ...Could all just be speculating but he does need to be held accountable for this year.
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Firing Freddie on Monday = get outta here!
Firing Freddie tonight = get the FUCK outta here!
I think they wanted possible HC candidates to know our situation asap.
I think they wanted possible HC candidates to know our situation asap.
So much so that if you believe La Canfora we were contacting candidates before Freddie knew he was gone.
How the hell is that display of a total lack of respect supposed to attract the best talent?
" CBS Sports NFL Insiders Jason La Canfora reported that the team had been sending out feelers and making calls to potential coaching candidates over the past few days, which definitely wasn't a good sign for Kitchens, who is now out of a job."
No one wants the washington job...owner is worse than jerrah in dallas. Meddling non stop.
That had been the case historically... not so much since they revamped the FO with Bruce Allen filling the role of Team President. Jay Gruden got 5+ years... most of them spent in relative peace.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
10 hours ago, runyon27 said:
... as far as the trade goes, its obvious they thought Corbett could fill that position. he didn't, the end result is keeping Zeitler wouldn't have changed the outcome to the season, from my perspective better coaching would overcome that.
How could a GM be so out of touch with a pick's progress? It isn't as if Corbett was a close miss...
As for the impact of having Zeitler in 2019... you don't know what it was and neither do I, but it is hard for me to believe that the impact was nil.
3 hours ago, Ibleedbrown said:
I’m largely in favor of continuity, so l’d like to see Dorsey stay. Any new GM is going to restart that whole “his guys” process, which is just a hassle.
But what do those "FO guys" really impact compared to changing the HC, which usually means the complete turnover of the coaching staff.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Well I'm wondering why Corbett did not work out here, got traded for a 5th round pick and is now the starting LG for the Rams?
Maybe it had more to do with coaching than picking. Not that I give Dorsey any credit for the OBJ trade depleting a thin OL either. That helped turn Baker from a seasoned soph into a starting rookie. And as that QB class plays out it will be interesting to see how he ends up in the long run. I still think the right coaching can turn him into another Brees capable of reading the defenses, changing the plays and finding the right receivers while moving safeties like pinballs with his eyes the way Brees does it.
Well I'm wondering why Corbett did not work out here, got traded for a 5th round pick and is now the starting LG for the Rams?
Same reason Cam was traded for and started in KC... because LAR is desperate for OL due to injury. Come TC 2020 he'll be a 2nd teamer at best.
As for the price? Cheap compared to the R3 projections I saw for him... more so considering it was a 2021 pick and is thus discounted a round.
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- [7:03 a.m. ET]: Ron Rivera expected to be named new Redskins head coach
- [8:01 a.m. ET]: Panthers request permission to interview Chiefs offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy, per Ian Rapoport of NFL Network
- [8:36 a.m. ET]: Browns request permission to interview Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels, Panthers expected to seek permission as well, per Adam Schefter of ESPN
- [9:10 a.m. ET]: Pat Shurmur fired by Giants after compiling 9-23 record in two seasons.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
- Baker Mayfield
- Nick Chubb
- Jarvis Landry
- Odell Beckham Jr.
- Denzel Ward
- Greedy Williams
- Damarious Randall
But yes, let's get mad and call for John Dorsey's head because Genard Avery, a dude named Carl and Austin whatever the fuck his name is aren't here.
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Bieniemy was a name I was hoping the Browns would take a long look at last year. Sucks they feel so dead set on a re-tread.
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10 hours ago, runyon27 said:
... as far as the trade goes, its obvious they thought Corbett could fill that position. he didn't, the end result is keeping Zeitler wouldn't have changed the outcome to the season, from my perspective better coaching would overcome that.
How could a GM be so out of touch with a pick's progress? It isn't as if Corbett was a close miss...
As for the impact of having Zeitler in 2019... you don't know what it was and neither do I, but it is hard for me to believe that the impact was nil.
3 hours ago, Ibleedbrown said:
I’m largely in favor of continuity, so l’d like to see Dorsey stay. Any new GM is going to restart that whole “his guys” process, which is just a hassle.
But what do those "FO guys" really impact compared to changing the HC, which usually means the complete turnover of the coaching staff.
But what do those "FO guys" really impact compared to changing the HC, which usually means the complete turnover of the coaching staff.
Other than the players themselves? I guess not much, but that can be a big part of it where over time the new GM feels inclined to supplant much of the roster with “his guys”.
And honestly, l don’t really think that’s as big as a deal as many make it out to be. Any smart GM should go with the best players they can get. But other variables convolute it all, like any given player may have been a good fit with one coach and his scheme, but maybe not another coaches’ scheme. I almost think Avery was a casualty of this.
It’s just decision makers being forced to adapt to each other, and it takes time and maybe a little trial and error. Ownership is a part of this mix too, so you got 3 groups (ownership, GM and FO, and the coaches) who all have to get on the same page with one another, so by keeping 2 of the 3 in tact at least it’s theoretically 2 groups that are already on the same page and they just gotta get the coaches into the same book.
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The new HCs D coordinator selection is just as important.
The G Will Parking your safety in Parma didn’t work. And this Wilks scheme is a total disaster as well.
And if we go 3-4 we may have to spend a draft getting equipped to play it.
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People still getting hung up on the 34 43 44 cliche'.
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- [7:03 a.m. ET]: Ron Rivera expected to be named new Redskins head coach
- [8:01 a.m. ET]: Panthers request permission to interview Chiefs offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy, per Ian Rapoport of NFL Network
- [8:36 a.m. ET]: Browns request permission to interview Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels, Panthers expected to seek permission as well, per Adam Schefter of ESPN
- [9:10 a.m. ET]: Pat Shurmur fired by Giants after compiling 9-23 record in two seasons.
- [7:03 a.m. ET]: Ron Rivera expected to be named new Redskins head coach
- [8:01 a.m. ET]: Panthers request permission to interview Chiefs offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy, per Ian Rapoport of NFL Network
- [8:36 a.m. ET]: Browns request permission to interview Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels, Panthers expected to seek permission as well, per Adam Schefter of ESPN
- [9:10 a.m. ET]: Pat Shurmur fired by Giants after compiling 9-23 record in two seasons.
My Redskins fan mentioned Washington had been talking to Rivera for weeks. Also, Bruce Allen might be out as GM.
So, old Shur-loss is another casualty on Black Monday. Start a poll who's worse as a HC, Freddie or Pat?
I'm going to put my opinion out there.
Please NO to Urban Meyer. That's a bad idea just waiting to happen. I'm very skeptical about Josh McDaniels. I would have loved to have brought in Rivera and kept the rest of the staff in tact, however, that does not seem like it is going to happen this time. This team needs a leader and someone who will hold them responsible. I'm not sure McDaniels can do that. I think front office people like him more than players and other coaches around the league. McCarthy would be interesting but I'm nervous he is going to come in and clean house. Does a college coach count? Is it Lincoln Riley or bust? I wonder how that would go over in the locker room. Rhule? The browns had Matt Campbell of ISU really high on their list last year. Can any of them come in and build a culture of winning?
I've mentioned elsewhere McCarthy already has his potential OC and DC in place.... It would be a total house cleaning. Not that I was overly impressed with Wilkes. No opinion on Monken, as Freddie effectively handcuffed and muzzled him. That said, I hope we can keep Stump Mitchell around as running back coach. Chubb loves and respects him.
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People still getting hung up on the 34 43 44 cliche'.
For real.
43/34 doesn't matter. The biggest difference in defensive philosophies is gap responsibility, not front alignment. 43/34 doesn't matter, it's just something fans get hung up on.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
- [7:03 a.m. ET]: Ron Rivera expected to be named new Redskins head coach
- [8:01 a.m. ET]: Panthers request permission to interview Chiefs offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy, per Ian Rapoport of NFL Network
- [8:36 a.m. ET]: Browns request permission to interview Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels, Panthers expected to seek permission as well, per Adam Schefter of ESPN
- [9:10 a.m. ET]: Pat Shurmur fired by Giants after compiling 9-23 record in two seasons.
My Redskins fan mentioned Washington had been talking to Rivera for weeks. Also, Bruce Allen might be out as GM.
So, old Shur-loss is another casualty on Black Monday. Start a poll who's worse as a HC, Freddie or Pat?
I'm going to put my opinion out there.
Please NO to Urban Meyer. That's a bad idea just waiting to happen. I'm very skeptical about Josh McDaniels. I would have loved to have brought in Rivera and kept the rest of the staff in tact, however, that does not seem like it is going to happen this time. This team needs a leader and someone who will hold them responsible. I'm not sure McDaniels can do that. I think front office people like him more than players and other coaches around the league. McCarthy would be interesting but I'm nervous he is going to come in and clean house. Does a college coach count? Is it Lincoln Riley or bust? I wonder how that would go over in the locker room. Rhule? The browns had Matt Campbell of ISU really high on their list last year. Can any of them come in and build a culture of winning?
I've mentioned elsewhere McCarthy already has his potential OC and DC in place.... It would be a total house cleaning. Not that I was overly impressed with Wilkes. No opinion on Monken, as Freddie effectively handcuffed and muzzled him. That said, I hope we can keep Stump Mitchell around as running back coach. Chubb loves and respects him.
My Redskins fan mentioned Washington had been talking to Rivera for weeks. Also, Bruce Allen might be out as GM.
So, old Shur-loss is another casualty on Black Monday. Start a poll who's worse as a HC, Freddie or Pat?
I've mentioned elsewhere McCarthy already has his potential OC and DC in place.... It would be a total house cleaning. Not that I was overly impressed with Wilkes. No opinion on Monken, as Freddie effectively handcuffed and muzzled him. That said, I hope we can keep Stump Mitchell around as running back coach. Chubb loves and respects him.
Allen is out entirely. Rivera is expected to sign soon and the rumor is he would bring Wilks in as DC, which is great news for us.
I think it's a whole house cleaning regardless of who we hire. Defensively, everyone will (and definitely should) be let go. Offensively, the only way I see Monken staying is if we hire a coach who's going to implement an Air Raid-inspired offense, but that doesn't seem likely. Adam Henry might be safe just because I expect Odell and Jarvis to go to bat for him.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride
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