Freddie fired
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- Baker Mayfield
- Nick Chubb
- Jarvis Landry
- Odell Beckham Jr.
- Denzel Ward
- Greedy Williams
- Damarious Randall
But yes, let's get mad and call for John Dorsey's head because Genard Avery, a dude named Carl and Austin whatever the fuck his name is aren't here.
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Bieniemy was a name I was hoping the Browns would take a long look at last year. Sucks they feel so dead set on a re-tread.
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10 hours ago, runyon27 said:
... as far as the trade goes, its obvious they thought Corbett could fill that position. he didn't, the end result is keeping Zeitler wouldn't have changed the outcome to the season, from my perspective better coaching would overcome that.
How could a GM be so out of touch with a pick's progress? It isn't as if Corbett was a close miss...
As for the impact of having Zeitler in 2019... you don't know what it was and neither do I, but it is hard for me to believe that the impact was nil.
3 hours ago, Ibleedbrown said:
I’m largely in favor of continuity, so l’d like to see Dorsey stay. Any new GM is going to restart that whole “his guys” process, which is just a hassle.
But what do those "FO guys" really impact compared to changing the HC, which usually means the complete turnover of the coaching staff.
But what do those "FO guys" really impact compared to changing the HC, which usually means the complete turnover of the coaching staff.
Other than the players themselves? I guess not much, but that can be a big part of it where over time the new GM feels inclined to supplant much of the roster with “his guys”.
And honestly, l don’t really think that’s as big as a deal as many make it out to be. Any smart GM should go with the best players they can get. But other variables convolute it all, like any given player may have been a good fit with one coach and his scheme, but maybe not another coaches’ scheme. I almost think Avery was a casualty of this.
It’s just decision makers being forced to adapt to each other, and it takes time and maybe a little trial and error. Ownership is a part of this mix too, so you got 3 groups (ownership, GM and FO, and the coaches) who all have to get on the same page with one another, so by keeping 2 of the 3 in tact at least it’s theoretically 2 groups that are already on the same page and they just gotta get the coaches into the same book.
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The new HCs D coordinator selection is just as important.
The G Will Parking your safety in Parma didn’t work. And this Wilks scheme is a total disaster as well.
And if we go 3-4 we may have to spend a draft getting equipped to play it.
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People still getting hung up on the 34 43 44 cliche'.
-
- [7:03 a.m. ET]: Ron Rivera expected to be named new Redskins head coach
- [8:01 a.m. ET]: Panthers request permission to interview Chiefs offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy, per Ian Rapoport of NFL Network
- [8:36 a.m. ET]: Browns request permission to interview Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels, Panthers expected to seek permission as well, per Adam Schefter of ESPN
- [9:10 a.m. ET]: Pat Shurmur fired by Giants after compiling 9-23 record in two seasons.
- [7:03 a.m. ET]: Ron Rivera expected to be named new Redskins head coach
- [8:01 a.m. ET]: Panthers request permission to interview Chiefs offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy, per Ian Rapoport of NFL Network
- [8:36 a.m. ET]: Browns request permission to interview Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels, Panthers expected to seek permission as well, per Adam Schefter of ESPN
- [9:10 a.m. ET]: Pat Shurmur fired by Giants after compiling 9-23 record in two seasons.
My Redskins fan mentioned Washington had been talking to Rivera for weeks. Also, Bruce Allen might be out as GM.
So, old Shur-loss is another casualty on Black Monday. Start a poll who's worse as a HC, Freddie or Pat?
I'm going to put my opinion out there.
Please NO to Urban Meyer. That's a bad idea just waiting to happen. I'm very skeptical about Josh McDaniels. I would have loved to have brought in Rivera and kept the rest of the staff in tact, however, that does not seem like it is going to happen this time. This team needs a leader and someone who will hold them responsible. I'm not sure McDaniels can do that. I think front office people like him more than players and other coaches around the league. McCarthy would be interesting but I'm nervous he is going to come in and clean house. Does a college coach count? Is it Lincoln Riley or bust? I wonder how that would go over in the locker room. Rhule? The browns had Matt Campbell of ISU really high on their list last year. Can any of them come in and build a culture of winning?
I've mentioned elsewhere McCarthy already has his potential OC and DC in place.... It would be a total house cleaning. Not that I was overly impressed with Wilkes. No opinion on Monken, as Freddie effectively handcuffed and muzzled him. That said, I hope we can keep Stump Mitchell around as running back coach. Chubb loves and respects him.
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People still getting hung up on the 34 43 44 cliche'.
For real.
43/34 doesn't matter. The biggest difference in defensive philosophies is gap responsibility, not front alignment. 43/34 doesn't matter, it's just something fans get hung up on.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
- [7:03 a.m. ET]: Ron Rivera expected to be named new Redskins head coach
- [8:01 a.m. ET]: Panthers request permission to interview Chiefs offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy, per Ian Rapoport of NFL Network
- [8:36 a.m. ET]: Browns request permission to interview Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels, Panthers expected to seek permission as well, per Adam Schefter of ESPN
- [9:10 a.m. ET]: Pat Shurmur fired by Giants after compiling 9-23 record in two seasons.
My Redskins fan mentioned Washington had been talking to Rivera for weeks. Also, Bruce Allen might be out as GM.
So, old Shur-loss is another casualty on Black Monday. Start a poll who's worse as a HC, Freddie or Pat?
I'm going to put my opinion out there.
Please NO to Urban Meyer. That's a bad idea just waiting to happen. I'm very skeptical about Josh McDaniels. I would have loved to have brought in Rivera and kept the rest of the staff in tact, however, that does not seem like it is going to happen this time. This team needs a leader and someone who will hold them responsible. I'm not sure McDaniels can do that. I think front office people like him more than players and other coaches around the league. McCarthy would be interesting but I'm nervous he is going to come in and clean house. Does a college coach count? Is it Lincoln Riley or bust? I wonder how that would go over in the locker room. Rhule? The browns had Matt Campbell of ISU really high on their list last year. Can any of them come in and build a culture of winning?
I've mentioned elsewhere McCarthy already has his potential OC and DC in place.... It would be a total house cleaning. Not that I was overly impressed with Wilkes. No opinion on Monken, as Freddie effectively handcuffed and muzzled him. That said, I hope we can keep Stump Mitchell around as running back coach. Chubb loves and respects him.
My Redskins fan mentioned Washington had been talking to Rivera for weeks. Also, Bruce Allen might be out as GM.
So, old Shur-loss is another casualty on Black Monday. Start a poll who's worse as a HC, Freddie or Pat?
I've mentioned elsewhere McCarthy already has his potential OC and DC in place.... It would be a total house cleaning. Not that I was overly impressed with Wilkes. No opinion on Monken, as Freddie effectively handcuffed and muzzled him. That said, I hope we can keep Stump Mitchell around as running back coach. Chubb loves and respects him.
Allen is out entirely. Rivera is expected to sign soon and the rumor is he would bring Wilks in as DC, which is great news for us.
I think it's a whole house cleaning regardless of who we hire. Defensively, everyone will (and definitely should) be let go. Offensively, the only way I see Monken staying is if we hire a coach who's going to implement an Air Raid-inspired offense, but that doesn't seem likely. Adam Henry might be safe just because I expect Odell and Jarvis to go to bat for him.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
These are just facts, do with them what you will...
This is my attempt to bring to light the glaring (and never discussed) problem that makes the Cleveland Browns the perennial butt of jokes. I'm going to compare the first 2 seasons of some legendary NFL coaches with Browns head coaches and the "churn and burn" mentality. Oh, and I'm only doing this from 1999 to present because this is a completely different franchise from the one that Modell stole from Cleveland back in the day. Sorry, not sorry.
The average tenure of a Cleveland Browns head coach is just 1.9 seasons (Please pause to let that sink in). Since that's nearly 2 full seasons I'll give the the records of other legendary head coaches' first 2 seasons to show why teams shouldn't give up on coaches so quickly. I'll also list their championship resume to really emphasize the point:
Bill Belichick:
- First 2 Seasons as Patriots HC: 5-11 in 2000, 11-5 in 2001
- 6 Super Bowl victories
Chuck Noll:
- First 2 Seasons as Steelers HC: 1-13 in 1969, 5-9 in 1970
- 4 Super Bowl victories
Bill Walsh:
- First 2 seasons as 49ers HC: 2-14 in 1979, 6-10 in 1980
- 3 Super Bowl victories
Jimmy Johnson:
- First 2 seasons as Cowboys HC: 1-15 in 1989, 7-9 in 1990
- 2 Super Bowl victories
You get the idea. Had these teams bailed on their head coaches after one season (like Cleveland so often does) the trophy cases in New England, Pittsburgh, San Francisco, and Dallas would look A LOT different today. Maybe this is an extreme comparison but my point is that these organizations didn't just stick with these guys, they actually f&@#ing build something that could last!!!
The point I'm trying to get across is the Browns need to stick with head coaches long enough to have a winning system and culture!
Still don't believe me?!? This will blow your mind . . . There have only been TWO Browns coaches that made it a full 3 seasons as the head coach. And ya know what they did in their third season? I'll tell ya what they did!! 9-7 record and playoff appearance in 2002, 10-6 record and nearly missed playoffs in 2007 (weird year). Are you sensing a theme yet?? New England has been doing this for 2 decades with great success, Pittsburgh has only had 3 coaches since mankind first walked on the moon they're alright.
Jimmy Haslam, if you're reading this (which I doubt) please, Please, PLEASE stick with a coach long enough to BUILD A SYSTEM, stop this endless rotation of quarterbacks and coordinators, and stop embarrassing Cleveland's football legacy.
Thank you for coming to my TED Talk...
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My thoughts on Freddie- a decent good guy who gave it 110%, except his 110% effort was about 50% of what's required of a good\great NFL coach. The Cleveland com poll fan opinion is about 90% say it was time to go. As to coaching blunders-
1) Totaled by the Titans, 2) Rammed by the Rams (who were suffering a SB hangover), 3) sent out to sea by the Seahawks, 4) Shuffle passed off by the Patriots, 5) Bucked by a Broncos practice squad QB, 6) Ducked by a Steelers Duck and mash unit, 7) Disastered in the Desert, 8- Run over by the Ravens, 9) Bungled by the Bengals with a comatose performance that sent Freddie packing.
You have to wonder how many of those games could have turned out differently with a little more luck and better coaching. Four out of nine gets the Browns in the playoffs....
And what was it with the Njoku thing? And a few other personnel head scratchers.....
-
My Redskins fan mentioned Washington had been talking to Rivera for weeks. Also, Bruce Allen might be out as GM.
So, old Shur-loss is another casualty on Black Monday. Start a poll who's worse as a HC, Freddie or Pat?
I've mentioned elsewhere McCarthy already has his potential OC and DC in place.... It would be a total house cleaning. Not that I was overly impressed with Wilkes. No opinion on Monken, as Freddie effectively handcuffed and muzzled him. That said, I hope we can keep Stump Mitchell around as running back coach. Chubb loves and respects him.
Allen is out entirely. Rivera is expected to sign soon and the rumor is he would bring Wilks in as DC, which is great news for us.
I think it's a whole house cleaning regardless of who we hire. Defensively, everyone will (and definitely should) be let go. Offensively, the only way I see Monken staying is if we hire a coach who's going to implement an Air Raid-inspired offense, but that doesn't seem likely. Adam Henry might be safe just because I expect Odell and Jarvis to go to bat for him.
Allen is out entirely. Rivera is expected to sign soon and the rumor is he would bring Wilks in as DC, which is great news for us.
I think it's a whole house cleaning regardless of who we hire. Defensively, everyone will (and definitely should) be let go. Offensively, the only way I see Monken staying is if we hire a coach who's going to implement an Air Raid-inspired offense, but that doesn't seem likely. Adam Henry might be safe just because I expect Odell and Jarvis to go to bat for him.
st coach should also stay
-
But what do those "FO guys" really impact compared to changing the HC, which usually means the complete turnover of the coaching staff.
Other than the players themselves? I guess not much, but that can be a big part of it where over time the new GM feels inclined to supplant much of the roster with “his guys”.
And honestly, l don’t really think that’s as big as a deal as many make it out to be. Any smart GM should go with the best players they can get. But other variables convolute it all, like any given player may have been a good fit with one coach and his scheme, but maybe not another coaches’ scheme. I almost think Avery was a casualty of this.
It’s just decision makers being forced to adapt to each other, and it takes time and maybe a little trial and error. Ownership is a part of this mix too, so you got 3 groups (ownership, GM and FO, and the coaches) who all have to get on the same page with one another, so by keeping 2 of the 3 in tact at least it’s theoretically 2 groups that are already on the same page and they just gotta get the coaches into the same book.
Any smart GM should go with the best players they can get.
That's the key... smart overcoming ego.
Bruce Allen might be out as GM.
President... but regardless the word is he's gone. While he moved Snyder a step away form the day-to-day.... a huge plus... apparently it turned out that Allen was a flaming ass in his own right.
-
The new HCs D coordinator selection is just as important.
The G Will Parking your safety in Parma didn’t work. And this Wilks scheme is a total disaster as well.
And if we go 3-4 we may have to spend a draft getting equipped to play it.
And this Wilks scheme is a total disaster as well.
We knew Wilks' scheme was a disaster from his time in Arizona, yet "had" to go through with the hire? Seriously, everywhere he goes they just make excuses for him.
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
So whats the number of Browns coaches that have been fired that have go on to become legendary with another team?
"You see the Rams are still thinking that they are playing Tony Dorsett" -Jim Brown 1978 -
Yes, if only we let Hue have that full 3rd season so he could get us to the playoffs....
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And this Wilks scheme is a total disaster as well.
We knew Wilks' scheme was a disaster from his time in Arizona, yet "had" to go through with the hire? Seriously, everywhere he goes they just make excuses for him.
We knew Wilks' scheme was a disaster from his time in Arizona, yet "had" to go through with the hire? Seriously, everywhere he goes they just make excuses for him.
rumor has it that Rivera when hired will bring him in as they worked well together well in the past
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For real.
43/34 doesn't matter. The biggest difference in defensive philosophies is gap responsibility, not front alignment. 43/34 doesn't matter, it's just something fans get hung up on.
Then color me hung up....
Roster composition is impacted. Physical demands of the DL and OLB differ and so do the physical makeup of players.
DTs differ from NTs... DEs from DEs...
st coach should also stay
Long history under some damn good HCs. Our STs were one very disciplined unit... very few penalties even of the dreaded block n the back variety.
Makes me think the guy should get an interview.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
These are just facts, do with them what you will...
This is my attempt to bring to light the glaring (and never discussed) problem that makes the Cleveland Browns the perennial butt of jokes. I'm going to compare the first 2 seasons of some legendary NFL coaches with Browns head coaches and the "churn and burn" mentality. Oh, and I'm only doing this from 1999 to present because this is a completely different franchise from the one that Modell stole from Cleveland back in the day. Sorry, not sorry.
The average tenure of a Cleveland Browns head coach is just 1.9 seasons (Please pause to let that sink in). Since that's nearly 2 full seasons I'll give the the records of other legendary head coaches' first 2 seasons to show why teams shouldn't give up on coaches so quickly. I'll also list their championship resume to really emphasize the point:
Bill Belichick:
- First 2 Seasons as Patriots HC: 5-11 in 2000, 11-5 in 2001
- 6 Super Bowl victories
Chuck Noll:
- First 2 Seasons as Steelers HC: 1-13 in 1969, 5-9 in 1970
- 4 Super Bowl victories
Bill Walsh:
- First 2 seasons as 49ers HC: 2-14 in 1979, 6-10 in 1980
- 3 Super Bowl victories
Jimmy Johnson:
- First 2 seasons as Cowboys HC: 1-15 in 1989, 7-9 in 1990
- 2 Super Bowl victories
You get the idea. Had these teams bailed on their head coaches after one season (like Cleveland so often does) the trophy cases in New England, Pittsburgh, San Francisco, and Dallas would look A LOT different today. Maybe this is an extreme comparison but my point is that these organizations didn't just stick with these guys, they actually f&@#ing build something that could last!!!
The point I'm trying to get across is the Browns need to stick with head coaches long enough to have a winning system and culture!
Still don't believe me?!? This will blow your mind . . . There have only been TWO Browns coaches that made it a full 3 seasons as the head coach. And ya know what they did in their third season? I'll tell ya what they did!! 9-7 record and playoff appearance in 2002, 10-6 record and nearly missed playoffs in 2007 (weird year). Are you sensing a theme yet?? New England has been doing this for 2 decades with great success, Pittsburgh has only had 3 coaches since mankind first walked on the moon they're alright.
Jimmy Haslam, if you're reading this (which I doubt) please, Please, PLEASE stick with a coach long enough to BUILD A SYSTEM, stop this endless rotation of quarterbacks and coordinators, and stop embarrassing Cleveland's football legacy.
Thank you for coming to my TED Talk...
These are just facts, do with them what you will...
This is my attempt to bring to light the glaring (and never discussed) problem that makes the Cleveland Browns the perennial butt of jokes. I'm going to compare the first 2 seasons of some legendary NFL coaches with Browns head coaches and the "churn and burn" mentality. Oh, and I'm only doing this from 1999 to present because this is a completely different franchise from the one that Modell stole from Cleveland back in the day. Sorry, not sorry.
The average tenure of a Cleveland Browns head coach is just 1.9 seasons (Please pause to let that sink in). Since that's nearly 2 full seasons I'll give the the records of other legendary head coaches' first 2 seasons to show why teams shouldn't give up on coaches so quickly. I'll also list their championship resume to really emphasize the point:
Bill Belichick:
- First 2 Seasons as Patriots HC: 5-11 in 2000, 11-5 in 2001
- 6 Super Bowl victories
Chuck Noll:
- First 2 Seasons as Steelers HC: 1-13 in 1969, 5-9 in 1970
- 4 Super Bowl victories
Bill Walsh:
- First 2 seasons as 49ers HC: 2-14 in 1979, 6-10 in 1980
- 3 Super Bowl victories
Jimmy Johnson:
- First 2 seasons as Cowboys HC: 1-15 in 1989, 7-9 in 1990
- 2 Super Bowl victories
You get the idea. Had these teams bailed on their head coaches after one season (like Cleveland so often does) the trophy cases in New England, Pittsburgh, San Francisco, and Dallas would look A LOT different today. Maybe this is an extreme comparison but my point is that these organizations didn't just stick with these guys, they actually f&@#ing build something that could last!!!
The point I'm trying to get across is the Browns need to stick with head coaches long enough to have a winning system and culture!
Still don't believe me?!? This will blow your mind . . . There have only been TWO Browns coaches that made it a full 3 seasons as the head coach. And ya know what they did in their third season? I'll tell ya what they did!! 9-7 record and playoff appearance in 2002, 10-6 record and nearly missed playoffs in 2007 (weird year). Are you sensing a theme yet?? New England has been doing this for 2 decades with great success, Pittsburgh has only had 3 coaches since mankind first walked on the moon they're alright.
Jimmy Haslam, if you're reading this (which I doubt) please, Please, PLEASE stick with a coach long enough to BUILD A SYSTEM, stop this endless rotation of quarterbacks and coordinators, and stop embarrassing Cleveland's football legacy.
Thank you for coming to my TED Talk...
A few things:
A. Bill Belichick was not fired as the coach of the Cleveland Browns franchise. He was fired as coach of the Baltimore Modell (unnamed as yet) franchise. That is a fact.
B. The other guys you mention, Noll, Walsh, Johnson.....had shit for talent on the rosters they inherited...and they had a big hand in bringing the talent and devolping it during the first few years of their existence. It was clearly evident with those guys, that despite their losing records that they knew what they were doing. The same is not true here. It has been clearly evident that the guys we have dumped deserved to be dumped...and they were not ultimately qualified.
C. You mention the vast minority of situations. 4 coaches in the last 50 years have accomplished what you claim. That means hundreds have not. Building a system is great....if you have the product to build that system with.....and that product comes around very rarely. Those guys are the vast exception to the rule...NOT the norm. Do you want the names of those 100+ other coaches that didn't do a thing?
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