Freddie fired
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- [7:03 a.m. ET]: Ron Rivera expected to be named new Redskins head coach
- [8:01 a.m. ET]: Panthers request permission to interview Chiefs offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy, per Ian Rapoport of NFL Network
- [8:36 a.m. ET]: Browns request permission to interview Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels, Panthers expected to seek permission as well, per Adam Schefter of ESPN
- [9:10 a.m. ET]: Pat Shurmur fired by Giants after compiling 9-23 record in two seasons.
- [7:03 a.m. ET]: Ron Rivera expected to be named new Redskins head coach
- [8:01 a.m. ET]: Panthers request permission to interview Chiefs offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy, per Ian Rapoport of NFL Network
- [8:36 a.m. ET]: Browns request permission to interview Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels, Panthers expected to seek permission as well, per Adam Schefter of ESPN
- [9:10 a.m. ET]: Pat Shurmur fired by Giants after compiling 9-23 record in two seasons.
Ahh....first I have heard of the Shurmur firing....which, of course, was inevitable from the day he was hired. I guess the Giants should have called Browns fans about that.
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Bieniemy was a name I was hoping the Browns would take a long look at last year. Sucks they feel so dead set on a re-tread.
Bieniemy was a name I was hoping the Browns would take a long look at last year. Sucks they feel so dead set on a re-tread.
Nothing wrong with a retread. Here are some retreads:
Don Shula
Weeb Ewbank
George Allen
Dick Vermeil
Forrest Gregg
Dan Reeves
Bill Parcells
Marv Levy
Mike Holmgren
Mike Shanahan
Bill Belichick
Jon Gruden
Tom Coughlin
John Fox
Pete Carroll
All these guys either won or lost Super Bowls in their second gig.
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For real.
43/34 doesn't matter. The biggest difference in defensive philosophies is gap responsibility, not front alignment. 43/34 doesn't matter, it's just something fans get hung up on.
Then color me hung up....
Roster composition is impacted. Physical demands of the DL and OLB differ and so do the physical makeup of players.
DTs differ from NTs... DEs from DEs...
st coach should also stay
Long history under some damn good HCs. Our STs were one very disciplined unit... very few penalties even of the dreaded block n the back variety.
Makes me think the guy should get an interview.
Then color me hung up....
Roster composition is impacted. Physical demands of the DL and OLB differ and so do the physical makeup of players.
DTs differ from NTs... DEs from DEs...
Long history under some damn good HCs. Our STs were one very disciplined unit... very few penalties even of the dreaded block n the back variety.
Makes me think the guy should get an interview.
lots of good coachs got their start as st coach
don't they normally work with the bottom of the roster with both offensive and defensive players ? and looky what he did with them
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I can’t help but think since Dorsey got burned trying to go with an unknown in Kitchens that he’s going to play it safe this time. A retread seems very possible.
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It's not as if we haven't given HCs 3rd years.
After sneaking into the playoffs in his 2nd year we gave Butch a 3rd and 4th and saw the talent dwindle and team crash. Butch's problem wasn't coaching... it was GMing... a duty that was handed to him his 2nd season with us... a duty that would never successfully be rested away. It's noteworthy that Butch assembled the best staff we'd seen since Belichick. Here it is....
Offensive Coordinator: Bruce Arians
Defensive Coordinator: Dave Campo
Other Notable Asst.: Todd Bowles (Secondary (nickel package)), Chuck Pagano (Secondary), Clancy Pendergast (Linebackers), Terry Robiskie (Wide Receivers) and Carl Smith (Quarterbacks)
We've even given a 3rd on faith and were rewarded with the best season since our return in '07 when Crennel posted a playoff-missing, 10-6 season. Of course that was DA's miracle season... Braylon's, too. However, '08 saw a 4-12 pratfall.
There have been other HCs that IMO deserved third seasons. Hue ain't on my list.
- I've always thought Mangini deserved a 3rd year. It was a close call, but he wasn't the Walrus' guy so go he must.
- Also thought Pettine deserved a 3rd shot, but he got Farmered. Turns out tho it was Pet's rookie OC who was the one that got away... or was Farmered away. Remember the PowerPoint?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
It's not as if we haven't given HCs 3rd years.
After sneaking into the playoffs in his 2nd year we gave Butch a 3rd and 4th and saw the talent dwindle and team crash. Butch's problem wasn't coaching... it was GMing... a duty that was handed to him his 2nd season with us... a duty that would never successfully be rested away. It's noteworthy that Butch assembled the best staff we'd seen since Belichick. Here it is....
Offensive Coordinator: Bruce Arians
Defensive Coordinator: Dave Campo
Other Notable Asst.: Todd Bowles (Secondary (nickel package)), Chuck Pagano (Secondary), Clancy Pendergast (Linebackers), Terry Robiskie (Wide Receivers) and Carl Smith (Quarterbacks)
We've even given a 3rd on faith and were rewarded with the best season since our return in '07 when Crennel posted a playoff-missing, 10-6 season. Of course that was DA's miracle season... Braylon's, too. However, '08 saw a 4-12 pratfall.
There have been other HCs that IMO deserved third seasons. Hue ain't on my list.
- I've always thought Mangini deserved a 3rd year. It was a close call, but he wasn't the Walrus' guy so go he must.
- Also thought Pettine deserved a 3rd shot, but he got Farmered. Turns out tho it was Pet's rookie OC who was the one that got away... or was Farmered away. Remember the PowerPoint?
It's not as if we haven't given HCs 3rd years.
After sneaking into the playoffs in his 2nd year we gave Butch a 3rd and 4th and saw the talent dwindle and team crash. Butch's problem wasn't coaching... it was GMing... a duty that was handed to him his 2nd season with us... a duty that would never successfully be rested away. It's noteworthy that Butch assembled the best staff we'd seen since Belichick. Here it is....
We've even given a 3rd on faith and were rewarded with the best season since our return in '07 when Crennel posted a playoff-missing, 10-6 season. Of course that was DA's miracle season... Braylon's, too. However, '08 saw a 4-12 pratfall.
There have been other HCs that IMO deserved third seasons. Hue ain't on my list.
- I've always thought Mangini deserved a 3rd year. It was a close call, but he wasn't the Walrus' guy so go he must.
- Also thought Pettine deserved a 3rd shot, but he got Farmered. Turns out tho it was Pet's rookie OC who was the one that got away... or was Farmered away. Remember the PowerPoint?
Agree with the Mangini/Pettine situations, basically. But Holmgren wanted "his guy"...and gave us fucking Shurmur (worse than Fred?)....and Pettine not only got Farmered, but didn't he also get Johnnyfucked?
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Then color me hung up....
Roster composition is impacted. Physical demands of the DL and OLB differ and so do the physical makeup of players.
DTs differ from NTs... DEs from DEs...
Long history under some damn good HCs. Our STs were one very disciplined unit... very few penalties even of the dreaded block n the back variety.
Makes me think the guy should get an interview.
lots of good coachs got their start as st coach
don't they normally work with the bottom of the roster with both offensive and defensive players ? and looky what he did with them
^ Likely true, but the Haslam's are going to have a role and some new face could come in and blow them away.
lots of good coachs got their start as st coach
don't they normally work with the bottom of the roster with both offensive and defensive players ? and looky what he did with them
Harbaugh in BLT springs immediately to mind... and no one else. Turns out there's a reason why...
Yet with the exception of Baltimore’s John Harbaugh, no one whose main area of football expertise is special teams has gotten that opportunity in more than two decades.
The snub makes little sense on the surface. Special teams constitute roughly 22 percent of all plays in an NFL game. The duties inherent in leading those units far better mimic the responsibilities that come with being a head coach.
Article is from 2015 so maybe one of the newest HCs came from the ST Coord ranks, but none come to mind.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
It's not as if we haven't given HCs 3rd years.
After sneaking into the playoffs in his 2nd year we gave Butch a 3rd and 4th and saw the talent dwindle and team crash. Butch's problem wasn't coaching... it was GMing... a duty that was handed to him his 2nd season with us... a duty that would never successfully be rested away. It's noteworthy that Butch assembled the best staff we'd seen since Belichick. Here it is....
We've even given a 3rd on faith and were rewarded with the best season since our return in '07 when Crennel posted a playoff-missing, 10-6 season. Of course that was DA's miracle season... Braylon's, too. However, '08 saw a 4-12 pratfall.
There have been other HCs that IMO deserved third seasons. Hue ain't on my list.
- I've always thought Mangini deserved a 3rd year. It was a close call, but he wasn't the Walrus' guy so go he must.
- Also thought Pettine deserved a 3rd shot, but he got Farmered. Turns out tho it was Pet's rookie OC who was the one that got away... or was Farmered away. Remember the PowerPoint?
Agree with the Mangini/Pettine situations, basically. But Holmgren wanted "his guy"...and gave us fucking Shurmur (worse than Fred?)....and Pettine not only got Farmered, but didn't he also get Johnnyfucked?
Agree with the Mangini/Pettine situations, basically. But Holmgren wanted "his guy"...and gave us fucking Shurmur (worse than Fred?)....and Pettine not only got Farmered, but didn't he also get Johnnyfucked?
Yes, Pettine managed to get more with less.
He managed a 7-9 season with Hoyer & Manziel as QB’s.
His biggest mistake was hiring some dude posing as a Defensive Coordinator.
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
These are just facts, do with them what you will...
This is my attempt to bring to light the glaring (and never discussed) problem that makes the Cleveland Browns the perennial butt of jokes. I'm going to compare the first 2 seasons of some legendary NFL coaches with Browns head coaches and the "churn and burn" mentality. Oh, and I'm only doing this from 1999 to present because this is a completely different franchise from the one that Modell stole from Cleveland back in the day. Sorry, not sorry.
The average tenure of a Cleveland Browns head coach is just 1.9 seasons (Please pause to let that sink in). Since that's nearly 2 full seasons I'll give the the records of other legendary head coaches' first 2 seasons to show why teams shouldn't give up on coaches so quickly. I'll also list their championship resume to really emphasize the point:
Bill Belichick:
- First 2 Seasons as Patriots HC: 5-11 in 2000, 11-5 in 2001
- 6 Super Bowl victories
Chuck Noll:
- First 2 Seasons as Steelers HC: 1-13 in 1969, 5-9 in 1970
- 4 Super Bowl victories
Bill Walsh:
- First 2 seasons as 49ers HC: 2-14 in 1979, 6-10 in 1980
- 3 Super Bowl victories
Jimmy Johnson:
- First 2 seasons as Cowboys HC: 1-15 in 1989, 7-9 in 1990
- 2 Super Bowl victories
You get the idea. Had these teams bailed on their head coaches after one season (like Cleveland so often does) the trophy cases in New England, Pittsburgh, San Francisco, and Dallas would look A LOT different today. Maybe this is an extreme comparison but my point is that these organizations didn't just stick with these guys, they actually f&@#ing build something that could last!!!
The point I'm trying to get across is the Browns need to stick with head coaches long enough to have a winning system and culture!
Still don't believe me?!? This will blow your mind . . . There have only been TWO Browns coaches that made it a full 3 seasons as the head coach. And ya know what they did in their third season? I'll tell ya what they did!! 9-7 record and playoff appearance in 2002, 10-6 record and nearly missed playoffs in 2007 (weird year). Are you sensing a theme yet?? New England has been doing this for 2 decades with great success, Pittsburgh has only had 3 coaches since mankind first walked on the moon they're alright.
Jimmy Haslam, if you're reading this (which I doubt) please, Please, PLEASE stick with a coach long enough to BUILD A SYSTEM, stop this endless rotation of quarterbacks and coordinators, and stop embarrassing Cleveland's football legacy.
Thank you for coming to my TED Talk...
These are just facts, do with them what you will...
This is my attempt to bring to light the glaring (and never discussed) problem that makes the Cleveland Browns the perennial butt of jokes. I'm going to compare the first 2 seasons of some legendary NFL coaches with Browns head coaches and the "churn and burn" mentality. Oh, and I'm only doing this from 1999 to present because this is a completely different franchise from the one that Modell stole from Cleveland back in the day. Sorry, not sorry.
The average tenure of a Cleveland Browns head coach is just 1.9 seasons (Please pause to let that sink in). Since that's nearly 2 full seasons I'll give the the records of other legendary head coaches' first 2 seasons to show why teams shouldn't give up on coaches so quickly. I'll also list their championship resume to really emphasize the point:
Bill Belichick:
- First 2 Seasons as Patriots HC: 5-11 in 2000, 11-5 in 2001
- 6 Super Bowl victories
Chuck Noll:
- First 2 Seasons as Steelers HC: 1-13 in 1969, 5-9 in 1970
- 4 Super Bowl victories
Bill Walsh:
- First 2 seasons as 49ers HC: 2-14 in 1979, 6-10 in 1980
- 3 Super Bowl victories
Jimmy Johnson:
- First 2 seasons as Cowboys HC: 1-15 in 1989, 7-9 in 1990
- 2 Super Bowl victories
You get the idea. Had these teams bailed on their head coaches after one season (like Cleveland so often does) the trophy cases in New England, Pittsburgh, San Francisco, and Dallas would look A LOT different today. Maybe this is an extreme comparison but my point is that these organizations didn't just stick with these guys, they actually f&@#ing build something that could last!!!
The point I'm trying to get across is the Browns need to stick with head coaches long enough to have a winning system and culture!
Still don't believe me?!? This will blow your mind . . . There have only been TWO Browns coaches that made it a full 3 seasons as the head coach. And ya know what they did in their third season? I'll tell ya what they did!! 9-7 record and playoff appearance in 2002, 10-6 record and nearly missed playoffs in 2007 (weird year). Are you sensing a theme yet?? New England has been doing this for 2 decades with great success, Pittsburgh has only had 3 coaches since mankind first walked on the moon they're alright.
Jimmy Haslam, if you're reading this (which I doubt) please, Please, PLEASE stick with a coach long enough to BUILD A SYSTEM, stop this endless rotation of quarterbacks and coordinators, and stop embarrassing Cleveland's football legacy.
Thank you for coming to my TED Talk...
I’ll throw 2 names at you...George Siefert & Barry Switzer.
How long did it take those guys to achieve success?
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^ Likely true, but the Haslam's are going to have a role and some new face could come in and blow them away.
lots of good coachs got their start as st coach
don't they normally work with the bottom of the roster with both offensive and defensive players ? and looky what he did with them
Harbaugh in BLT springs immediately to mind... and no one else. Turns out there's a reason why...
Yet with the exception of Baltimore’s John Harbaugh, no one whose main area of football expertise is special teams has gotten that opportunity in more than two decades.
The snub makes little sense on the surface. Special teams constitute roughly 22 percent of all plays in an NFL game. The duties inherent in leading those units far better mimic the responsibilities that come with being a head coach.
Article is from 2015 so maybe one of the newest HCs came from the ST Coord ranks, but none come to mind.
^ Likely true, but the Haslam's are going to have a role and some new face could come in and blow them away.
Harbaugh in BLT springs immediately to mind... and no one else. Turns out there's a reason why...
Article is from 2015 so maybe one of the newest HCs came from the ST Coord ranks, but none come to mind.
didnt pete carrol while at The Ohio State coach st ?
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I think Lou Saban would be a good fit. He coached everywhere, average gig about 2 years. That is a bit longer than the average Browns head coaching tenure but close enough. He also was a player under Paul Brown, which is always a plus.
Lou ruined the deal by dying about ten years ago, though.
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Let me ask you, if they bring in Mike McCarthy, why would anyone be afraid of a "housecleaning"? Are Browns fans expectations so low that even after a 6-10 season people would be afraid of a house cleaning? Besides, no matter who they bring in, our core players aren't going anywhere.
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Bieniemy was a name I was hoping the Browns would take a long look at last year. Sucks they feel so dead set on a re-tread.
Nothing wrong with a retread. Here are some retreads:
Don Shula
Weeb Ewbank
George Allen
Dick Vermeil
Forrest Gregg
Dan Reeves
Bill Parcells
Marv Levy
Mike Holmgren
Mike Shanahan
Bill Belichick
Jon Gruden
Tom Coughlin
John Fox
Pete Carroll
All these guys either won or lost Super Bowls in their second gig.
Nothing wrong with a retread. Here are some retreads:
Don Shula
Weeb Ewbank
George Allen
Dick Vermeil
Forrest Gregg
Dan Reeves
Bill Parcells
Marv Levy
Mike Holmgren
Mike Shanahan
Bill Belichick
Jon Gruden
Tom Coughlin
John Fox
Pete Carroll
All these guys either won or lost Super Bowls in their second gig.
And that would be why I like McCarthy. Good w/l record. Complacency and a personality clash with a star QB led to his departure. My opinion, he’s ripe for a comeback
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Nothing wrong with a retread. Here are some retreads:
Don Shula
Weeb Ewbank
George Allen
Dick Vermeil
Forrest Gregg
Dan Reeves
Bill Parcells
Marv Levy
Mike Holmgren
Mike Shanahan
Bill Belichick
Jon Gruden
Tom Coughlin
John Fox
Pete Carroll
All these guys either won or lost Super Bowls in their second gig.
And that would be why I like McCarthy. Good w/l record. Complacency and a personality clash with a star QB led to his departure. My opinion, he’s ripe for a comeback
And that would be why I like McCarthy. Good w/l record. Complacency and a personality clash with a star QB led to his departure. My opinion, he’s ripe for a comeback
He's the only viable option. Clear cut Head Coach with an impeccable resume. I can't understand why Jimmy Haslam isn't on his hands and knees with the Brinks truck behind him. I'm tired of ex coordinators with little or no experience at Head Coach.
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Nothing wrong with a retread. Here are some retreads:
Don Shula
Weeb Ewbank
George Allen
Dick Vermeil
Forrest Gregg
Dan Reeves
Bill Parcells
Marv Levy
Mike Holmgren
Mike Shanahan
Bill Belichick
Jon Gruden
Tom Coughlin
John Fox
Pete Carroll
All these guys either won or lost Super Bowls in their second gig.
And that would be why I like McCarthy. Good w/l record. Complacency and a personality clash with a star QB led to his departure. My opinion, he’s ripe for a comeback
And that would be why I like McCarthy. Good w/l record. Complacency and a personality clash with a star QB led to his departure. My opinion, he’s ripe for a comeback
McCarthy is #1 on my list
McDaniels is #2
"And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve." -
Man, is the bar set THIS low that we'd settle for a guy like Dorsey just because he added a few decent players? No GM hits on every pick, but the Corbett pick was inexcusable. It was clearly an example of a "look at how smart I am!" pick, and that's total crap. When you're talking about really high picks, the process isn't that high. For example, did ANYONE have us taking Corbett at 33? No, of course not. Why? Because it was FREAKING dumb.
Here's another example. Many people had us taking Bradley Chubb at 4. Dorsey went with Ward, which is tough to argue with because Ward is a very solid CB, but where do we have most of our problems? Pass rush. The tandem if Garrett and Chubb could've been legendary for years, but noooooooo, Dorsey HAD to be cute. And what did he do to address the pass rush? He traded Kevin Zeitler for Olivier Vernon. Anyone happy with THAT trade? Anyone? Bueller?
I don't know, I think Dorsey is totally overrated, and that's why you heard reports of more than the coach being altered. If he was SO good, no team would've let Dorsey go .
If you wanted to see what a real pass rush looks like- I caught some of the 49ers Seahawks game....
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Yeah I was one of those guys who wanted Bradley Chubb too, I saw him play a lot at NCSU I knew he was good. But if memory serves the Gregg Williams wanted a press corner and that what the GM gave him. The GMs job is give the coaches the type of players they want. I am not going to ding Dorsey for that pick. Corbett turned out to be a bad pick, it is what it is. Every GM picking today has f'd up at some point. And as far as the trade goes, its obvious they thought Corbett could fill that position. he didn't, the end result is keeping Zeitler wouldn't have changed the outcome to the season, from my perspective better coaching would overcome that.
Now, you have to wonder if the coaching was part of the problem of Baker going from an up and coming sure fire franchise qb to total garbage in one year.
Now, you have to wonder if the coaching was part of the problem of Baker going from an up and coming sure fire franchise qb to total garbage in one year.
I just remembered being so confident that Baker definitely would be our guy, and now I'm concerned. Ugh. I still think he can do it, but I'm less certain.
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And that would be why I like McCarthy. Good w/l record. Complacency and a personality clash with a star QB led to his departure. My opinion, he’s ripe for a comeback
McCarthy is #1 on my list
McDaniels is #2
McCarthy is #1 on my list
McDaniels is #2
Ya but with the Haslams, we end up with Stew Padasso
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McCarthy is #1 on my list
McDaniels is #2
Ya but with the Haslams, we end up with Stew Padasso
Ya but with the Haslams, we end up with Stew Padasso
That’s definitely a BIG PROBLEM
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^ Likely true, but the Haslam's are going to have a role and some new face could come in and blow them away.
Harbaugh in BLT springs immediately to mind... and no one else. Turns out there's a reason why...
Article is from 2015 so maybe one of the newest HCs came from the ST Coord ranks, but none come to mind.
didnt pete carrol while at The Ohio State coach st ?
I'm not going to pine for a HC who has been sitting idle for a year with a couple of hand-picked coordinators no one in the NFL ran after...
Not to mention that the team that fired that HC for going 7-9 and 6-9-1 in his last two seasons looked reborn on their way to 13-3 and a 1st-round bye.
didnt pete carrol while at The Ohio State coach st ?
He was 2ndary coach under Earl Bruce at tOSU... I don't seee any ST mentioned...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Carroll#Collegiate_assistant_(1973–1983)
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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