Freddie fired
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Let me ask you, if they bring in Mike McCarthy, why would anyone be afraid of a "housecleaning"? Are Browns fans expectations so low that even after a 6-10 season people would be afraid of a house cleaning? Besides, no matter who they bring in, our core players aren't going anywhere.
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Bieniemy was a name I was hoping the Browns would take a long look at last year. Sucks they feel so dead set on a re-tread.
Nothing wrong with a retread. Here are some retreads:
Don Shula
Weeb Ewbank
George Allen
Dick Vermeil
Forrest Gregg
Dan Reeves
Bill Parcells
Marv Levy
Mike Holmgren
Mike Shanahan
Bill Belichick
Jon Gruden
Tom Coughlin
John Fox
Pete Carroll
All these guys either won or lost Super Bowls in their second gig.
Nothing wrong with a retread. Here are some retreads:
Don Shula
Weeb Ewbank
George Allen
Dick Vermeil
Forrest Gregg
Dan Reeves
Bill Parcells
Marv Levy
Mike Holmgren
Mike Shanahan
Bill Belichick
Jon Gruden
Tom Coughlin
John Fox
Pete Carroll
All these guys either won or lost Super Bowls in their second gig.
And that would be why I like McCarthy. Good w/l record. Complacency and a personality clash with a star QB led to his departure. My opinion, he’s ripe for a comeback
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Nothing wrong with a retread. Here are some retreads:
Don Shula
Weeb Ewbank
George Allen
Dick Vermeil
Forrest Gregg
Dan Reeves
Bill Parcells
Marv Levy
Mike Holmgren
Mike Shanahan
Bill Belichick
Jon Gruden
Tom Coughlin
John Fox
Pete Carroll
All these guys either won or lost Super Bowls in their second gig.
And that would be why I like McCarthy. Good w/l record. Complacency and a personality clash with a star QB led to his departure. My opinion, he’s ripe for a comeback
And that would be why I like McCarthy. Good w/l record. Complacency and a personality clash with a star QB led to his departure. My opinion, he’s ripe for a comeback
He's the only viable option. Clear cut Head Coach with an impeccable resume. I can't understand why Jimmy Haslam isn't on his hands and knees with the Brinks truck behind him. I'm tired of ex coordinators with little or no experience at Head Coach.
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Nothing wrong with a retread. Here are some retreads:
Don Shula
Weeb Ewbank
George Allen
Dick Vermeil
Forrest Gregg
Dan Reeves
Bill Parcells
Marv Levy
Mike Holmgren
Mike Shanahan
Bill Belichick
Jon Gruden
Tom Coughlin
John Fox
Pete Carroll
All these guys either won or lost Super Bowls in their second gig.
And that would be why I like McCarthy. Good w/l record. Complacency and a personality clash with a star QB led to his departure. My opinion, he’s ripe for a comeback
And that would be why I like McCarthy. Good w/l record. Complacency and a personality clash with a star QB led to his departure. My opinion, he’s ripe for a comeback
McCarthy is #1 on my list
McDaniels is #2
"And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve." -
Man, is the bar set THIS low that we'd settle for a guy like Dorsey just because he added a few decent players? No GM hits on every pick, but the Corbett pick was inexcusable. It was clearly an example of a "look at how smart I am!" pick, and that's total crap. When you're talking about really high picks, the process isn't that high. For example, did ANYONE have us taking Corbett at 33? No, of course not. Why? Because it was FREAKING dumb.
Here's another example. Many people had us taking Bradley Chubb at 4. Dorsey went with Ward, which is tough to argue with because Ward is a very solid CB, but where do we have most of our problems? Pass rush. The tandem if Garrett and Chubb could've been legendary for years, but noooooooo, Dorsey HAD to be cute. And what did he do to address the pass rush? He traded Kevin Zeitler for Olivier Vernon. Anyone happy with THAT trade? Anyone? Bueller?
I don't know, I think Dorsey is totally overrated, and that's why you heard reports of more than the coach being altered. If he was SO good, no team would've let Dorsey go .
If you wanted to see what a real pass rush looks like- I caught some of the 49ers Seahawks game....
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Yeah I was one of those guys who wanted Bradley Chubb too, I saw him play a lot at NCSU I knew he was good. But if memory serves the Gregg Williams wanted a press corner and that what the GM gave him. The GMs job is give the coaches the type of players they want. I am not going to ding Dorsey for that pick. Corbett turned out to be a bad pick, it is what it is. Every GM picking today has f'd up at some point. And as far as the trade goes, its obvious they thought Corbett could fill that position. he didn't, the end result is keeping Zeitler wouldn't have changed the outcome to the season, from my perspective better coaching would overcome that.
Now, you have to wonder if the coaching was part of the problem of Baker going from an up and coming sure fire franchise qb to total garbage in one year.
Now, you have to wonder if the coaching was part of the problem of Baker going from an up and coming sure fire franchise qb to total garbage in one year.
I just remembered being so confident that Baker definitely would be our guy, and now I'm concerned. Ugh. I still think he can do it, but I'm less certain.
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And that would be why I like McCarthy. Good w/l record. Complacency and a personality clash with a star QB led to his departure. My opinion, he’s ripe for a comeback
McCarthy is #1 on my list
McDaniels is #2
McCarthy is #1 on my list
McDaniels is #2
Ya but with the Haslams, we end up with Stew Padasso
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McCarthy is #1 on my list
McDaniels is #2
Ya but with the Haslams, we end up with Stew Padasso
Ya but with the Haslams, we end up with Stew Padasso
That’s definitely a BIG PROBLEM
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^ Likely true, but the Haslam's are going to have a role and some new face could come in and blow them away.
Harbaugh in BLT springs immediately to mind... and no one else. Turns out there's a reason why...
Article is from 2015 so maybe one of the newest HCs came from the ST Coord ranks, but none come to mind.
didnt pete carrol while at The Ohio State coach st ?
I'm not going to pine for a HC who has been sitting idle for a year with a couple of hand-picked coordinators no one in the NFL ran after...
Not to mention that the team that fired that HC for going 7-9 and 6-9-1 in his last two seasons looked reborn on their way to 13-3 and a 1st-round bye.
didnt pete carrol while at The Ohio State coach st ?
He was 2ndary coach under Earl Bruce at tOSU... I don't seee any ST mentioned...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Carroll#Collegiate_assistant_(1973–1983)
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Hahahaha. No, I said you complain when people don't do it, i.e. saying they must not know if they don't.
You can turn it over all you want, I don't have any interest in doing it.
Right...you just want to criticize...not contribute.
But please you cocky, unlikable man don't make me go back on all the times you have either been wrong, or just went crazy on someone for having a differing opinion than yours.
You can do so...if you want.....(crickets)....while you are doing so....go down on yourself...since self love and no effort seems to be your thing.
But let's play this out for a second, you think every LSU player calls Joe Brady Joe? Or maybe they call him coach, ya know since he is one?
I don't know what they say....I only said that I personally have never heard him called that by anyone...and that is why I was confused because I thought that Flugel may have been referring to a third party....I did not say that no one else has ever said that about him.
You are also the same person when the Browns, you know YOUR team that you have such strong opinions about, signed a player that actually asked what position that individual played. Yet you have all these other opinions on who/what is good.
That IS after all, what this board is for, is it not? Expressing opinions? Or...maybe your thought is that it is just for bitching at others that have original ideas, without you ever having to come up with one yourself.
Now you want to make it seem as you were the 1st person who had Burrow as a later pick. Yet until the post that I read you have called him Burrows every time that I read.
I am CERTAIN that I am not the first person that had Burrows as a later pick....as this being his 5th year ...he has never in his career warranted being considered higher than that. I never actually thought anything about him at all in association with the draft until this year. As for his name....I don't care. It is just spelling dude. Not something to get hung up on. I have seen Burroughs spelled many ways. Go Rumpelstiltskin if you want over it.
You may not realize this but the way you post, argue, don't listen to any differing opinion, and don't seem to get along with others comes off as Gh**lie Lite.
Except...of course, I do listen, and do accept the opinions of others, who make sense. Always have, always will. Now....when are you going to come up with one of those.
Oh...OK....I accept your "opinion" that I spelled Burreaux's name wrong. There you go.
But we can have a contest pal. Take out each other (You and I) and any interaction with the man not to be named and even go with percentage of posts since you have way more than me. And see how many posts total that each have been wrong and got into an argument/insulted someone. Loser leaves for good. You down with that?
You are under the mistaken perception that I care about whether you think I am right, wrong, or indifferent. And you are mistaken that I care if you think I insulted you...or anyone else. To quote Fleetwood Mac "Don't ask me what I think of you, I might not give the answer that you want me to". I am not keeping any score on that sort of thing. Maybe you are. The only count I will give to you is just got three things wrong in that last paragraph about me, as you can see. So...you can consider yourself the loser and leave for good if you want. It don't make no difference to me. You have hardly shown your head on hear all season long. Perhaps you could explain that to yourself and others (not to me, I don't care). Me....I am just here for the entertainment value...and at this point it still has that value to me. So, come, or go, as you please. If you want to whine, bitch, moan, and groan about whatever I say or do....that is an issue you have with you, yourself, and you. You can keep me out of it, because I am not responsible for your mental state. But, if you would like, I can make a referral.
Hmm, I guess you know you would lose that. I honestly don't care if you are on here or not. But it is very telling when I get on this board and just look in a couple threads and there you are arguing with someone about something.
Yes, the board IS for people having opinions. But maybe you actually don't realize some of the things you write. You are very often getting into it with others for differing opinions. It doesn't even matter if you actually are right a majority of the time, it's the way you come off when doing it. And it isn't just a select few who you do this with. Buddy I could absolutely make you look foolish with real football knowledge, as I am sure you could me with law stuff or traveling, but I don't feel like I should deliberately try to make someone look bad unless they bring it upon myself.
I'll give you an easy example of something that pops in my head simply. In one of my posts to you, I finished it with God Bless. Instead of just leaving it alone, you had to put in a smartass comment about it.
I have no clue what these 3 things I am wrong about, and you may not realize or care, but yes you do come off akin to Gh**lie. And no, this is not just my opinion. But if you need just a shred of proof, just look at anyone of the times I have called you out on this type of thing. I get upvotes or whatever they are called, yet when you reply you dont. Maybe its because I know these people, oops never met a single person here. Never even been to Cleveland.
I heard a good saying once, paraphrasing "if you have the same issue with multiple people, what's the common denominator?" For example, if someone has been married and divorced 5 times, the common denominator is them.
Reason I haven't been on, besides having other things going on, is the constant negativity, conspiracy theories, and constant arguments.
P.S.- I guess it makes you feel like a big boy to people names, including a p*say when you won't ever have to see them. And I am quite impressed. Using curse words on the internet makes you a real adult. At least that is what kids think. So bravo, you are the internet champion, the Browns Board champion, and the smartest guy on the board.
And again, GOD BLESS
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^ Likely true, but the Haslam's are going to have a role and some new face could come in and blow them away.
Harbaugh in BLT springs immediately to mind... and no one else. Turns out there's a reason why...
Article is from 2015 so maybe one of the newest HCs came from the ST Coord ranks, but none come to mind.
didnt pete carrol while at The Ohio State coach st ?
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Pete Carroll is on his 3rd gig as an NFL head coach.
Not many guys gets three shots as HC.
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
Hmm, I guess you know you would lose that. I honestly don't care if you are on here or not. But it is very telling when I get on this board and just look in a couple threads and there you are arguing with someone about something.
Yes, the board IS for people having opinions. But maybe you actually don't realize some of the things you write. You are very often getting into it with others for differing opinions. It doesn't even matter if you actually are right a majority of the time, it's the way you come off when doing it. And it isn't just a select few who you do this with. Buddy I could absolutely make you look foolish with real football knowledge, as I am sure you could me with law stuff or traveling, but I don't feel like I should deliberately try to make someone look bad unless they bring it upon myself.
I'll give you an easy example of something that pops in my head simply. In one of my posts to you, I finished it with God Bless. Instead of just leaving it alone, you had to put in a smartass comment about it.
I have no clue what these 3 things I am wrong about, and you may not realize or care, but yes you do come off akin to Gh**lie. And no, this is not just my opinion. But if you need just a shred of proof, just look at anyone of the times I have called you out on this type of thing. I get upvotes or whatever they are called, yet when you reply you dont. Maybe its because I know these people, oops never met a single person here. Never even been to Cleveland.
I heard a good saying once, paraphrasing "if you have the same issue with multiple people, what's the common denominator?" For example, if someone has been married and divorced 5 times, the common denominator is them.
Reason I haven't been on, besides having other things going on, is the constant negativity, conspiracy theories, and constant arguments.
P.S.- I guess it makes you feel like a big boy to people names, including a p*say when you won't ever have to see them. And I am quite impressed. Using curse words on the internet makes you a real adult. At least that is what kids think. So bravo, you are the internet champion, the Browns Board champion, and the smartest guy on the board.
And again, GOD BLESS
Hmm, I guess you know you would lose that. I honestly don't care if you are on here or not.
Out of 1000 posts placed on this board since the last time you logged on....it is only one by me that you replied to. Your actions speak for yourself.
But it is very telling when I get on this board and just look in a couple threads and there you are arguing with someone about something.
Yes, I am arguing with them, they are arguing with me, they are all arguing with each other. Welcome to a sports chatboard.
Yes, the board IS for people having opinions. But maybe you actually don't realize some of the things you write. You are very often getting into it with others for differing opinions. It doesn't even matter if you actually are right a majority of the time, it's the way you come off when doing it. And it isn't just a select few who you do this with.
And no one cares how you feel about any of that. They really don't.
Buddy I could absolutely make you look foolish with real football knowledge,
Yea....your two posts in 4 months have been full of football knowledge.
as I am sure you could me with law stuff or traveling, but I don't feel like I should deliberately try to make someone look bad unless they bring it upon myself.
Go ahead....give us your Xs and Os. You probably know more about that than me. (and still, no on will care).
I'll give you an easy example of something that pops in my head simply. In one of my posts to you, I finished it with God Bless. Instead of just leaving it alone, you had to put in a smartass comment about it.
Like I did, down below. Your problem is that you think everything is a smarty pants # comment, even if it isn't. (#edited so as not to offend you with profanity)
I have no clue what these 3 things I am wrong about, and you may not realize or care, but yes you do come off akin to Gh**lie.
The fact that you say that shows that you have not been around and have no clue.
And no, this is not just my opinion. But if you need just a shred of proof, just look at anyone of the times I have called you out on this type of thing. I get upvotes or whatever they are called, yet when you reply you dont. Maybe its because I know these people, oops never met a single person here. Never even been to Cleveland.
Why are you even bothering if you cannot even come here at times?
I heard a good saying once, paraphrasing "if you have the same issue with multiple people, what's the common denominator?" For example, if someone has been married and divorced 5 times, the common denominator is them.
Oh, I know, I don't suffer fools lightly. Maybe I should. Not in my nature. For instance...I simply could not have responded to you here, and your name would have gone into the ether, and no one would remember you. Your identity here, apparently is tied to me. That was your choice, not mine.
Reason I haven't been on, besides having other things going on, is the constant negativity, conspiracy theories, and constant arguments.
You get argued with because you have some poor opinions. I can't really say that I take part in any of the rest....unless you really think that the negativity towards Ferd was my limited to me. (and I am not sure what you mean about conspiracy theories....I guess you have to take them up with whomever has those)
P.S.- I guess it makes you feel like a big boy to people names, including a p*say when you won't ever have to see them. And I am quite impressed. Using curse words on the internet makes you a real adult. At least that is what kids think. So bravo, you are the internet champion, the Browns Board champion, and the smartest guy on the board.
Complaining about profanity on the internet? I guess I didn't realize I was dealing with an infant. In that light, I will try to watch my tongue so that you don't get in trouble with your mom.
And again, GOD BLESS
Which God? And I mean that seriously. It is not my job to try to discern your religious preferences.
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Pete Carroll is on his 3rd gig as an NFL head coach.
Not many guys gets three shots as HC.
Pete Carroll is on his 3rd gig as an NFL head coach.
Not many guys gets three shots as HC.
Gee....he was a one year and done with the Jets. Was he an argument for keeping Fred?
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Hmm, I guess you know you would lose that. I honestly don't care if you are on here or not.
Out of 1000 posts placed on this board since the last time you logged on....it is only one by me that you replied to. Your actions speak for yourself.
But it is very telling when I get on this board and just look in a couple threads and there you are arguing with someone about something.
Yes, I am arguing with them, they are arguing with me, they are all arguing with each other. Welcome to a sports chatboard.
Yes, the board IS for people having opinions. But maybe you actually don't realize some of the things you write. You are very often getting into it with others for differing opinions. It doesn't even matter if you actually are right a majority of the time, it's the way you come off when doing it. And it isn't just a select few who you do this with.
And no one cares how you feel about any of that. They really don't.
Buddy I could absolutely make you look foolish with real football knowledge,
Yea....your two posts in 4 months have been full of football knowledge.
as I am sure you could me with law stuff or traveling, but I don't feel like I should deliberately try to make someone look bad unless they bring it upon myself.
Go ahead....give us your Xs and Os. You probably know more about that than me. (and still, no on will care).
I'll give you an easy example of something that pops in my head simply. In one of my posts to you, I finished it with God Bless. Instead of just leaving it alone, you had to put in a smartass comment about it.
Like I did, down below. Your problem is that you think everything is a smarty pants # comment, even if it isn't. (#edited so as not to offend you with profanity)
I have no clue what these 3 things I am wrong about, and you may not realize or care, but yes you do come off akin to Gh**lie.
The fact that you say that shows that you have not been around and have no clue.
And no, this is not just my opinion. But if you need just a shred of proof, just look at anyone of the times I have called you out on this type of thing. I get upvotes or whatever they are called, yet when you reply you dont. Maybe its because I know these people, oops never met a single person here. Never even been to Cleveland.
Why are you even bothering if you cannot even come here at times?
I heard a good saying once, paraphrasing "if you have the same issue with multiple people, what's the common denominator?" For example, if someone has been married and divorced 5 times, the common denominator is them.
Oh, I know, I don't suffer fools lightly. Maybe I should. Not in my nature. For instance...I simply could not have responded to you here, and your name would have gone into the ether, and no one would remember you. Your identity here, apparently is tied to me. That was your choice, not mine.
Reason I haven't been on, besides having other things going on, is the constant negativity, conspiracy theories, and constant arguments.
You get argued with because you have some poor opinions. I can't really say that I take part in any of the rest....unless you really think that the negativity towards Ferd was my limited to me. (and I am not sure what you mean about conspiracy theories....I guess you have to take them up with whomever has those)
P.S.- I guess it makes you feel like a big boy to people names, including a p*say when you won't ever have to see them. And I am quite impressed. Using curse words on the internet makes you a real adult. At least that is what kids think. So bravo, you are the internet champion, the Browns Board champion, and the smartest guy on the board.
Complaining about profanity on the internet? I guess I didn't realize I was dealing with an infant. In that light, I will try to watch my tongue so that you don't get in trouble with your mom.
And again, GOD BLESS
Which God? And I mean that seriously. It is not my job to try to discern your religious preferences.
Which God? And I mean that seriously. It is not my job to try to discern your religious preferences.
You obviously have missed the point pal. But then again, in your mind the ONLY reason I come on here is because of you. I didn't read weekly. But then again, you didn't want to take the challenge, so your actions speak as well.
I couldn't care less about you using a curse word, but exactly what is the point in calling someone a pussy? Does it make someone feel tough? I just don't get it. If I were to call you that does that mean I am tougher than you?
And no, I would think that you being so smart with semantics and legal jargon that you could discern a discussion and argument. When you have to resort to calling people idiots, telling them how wrong they are, etc. I take that as being unwilling to listen to another side. That happens A LOT in society today. And on occasions (no not all the time) when you post something incorrectly, when called out instead of just saying yep I was wrong, you try to finagle your way out of being wrong. I have even seen on here where you have blamed the other person why you were wrong. I know I have been wrong before, but you will never see me trying to explain why I was wrong.
Again NONE of this is just me saying it, as the same things have been said by others in the past.
I'm sure it is because I am just reading you wrong, we are always the one instigating it, etc. You have absolutely no culpability in any of it.
But all you have to do is go back to the reason I replied in this thread. The condescending way in which you went on about Brady, Burrow, etc.
Ahh, there it is, apparently I am not as big a fan as you because I don't live or been to Cleveland. It doesn't matter if I or anyone else has been, I have as much right as you. But the ENTIRE point of that part went over your head. I will absolutely GUARANTEE that if you polled the membership here that a majority would have issue with the way you post sometimes. They would also backup what is being said here. But I guess that is a me problem and a them problem.
But since YOU reference it, show me ONE poor opinion?
As for your last question. God, Jesus father. The one who sent his son to die for ALL of our sins. I pray that before you perish that you accept that. I am sure you have a smart comment there, but on THAT I will act like you and not change my opinion no matter what you say.
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So whats the number of Browns coaches that have been fired that have go on to become legendary with another team?
So whats the number of Browns coaches that have been fired that have go on to become legendary with another team?
As was pointed out Bill B wasn't fired by the Browns but by Schmodell after the move, who will go down in history as the only owner to fire TWO HOF coaches.
The only former Browns coach to have somewhat of a successful post Browns resume is Marty Schottenheimer, who essentially quit because of F-artie. I suppose I should lay my opinion of Rob Chudinski getting axed too soon to rest, because if he was truly HC material, he should at least have gotten a HC offer or two by now.
A few things:
A. Bill Belichick was not fired as the coach of the Cleveland Browns franchise. He was fired as coach of the Baltimore Modell (unnamed as yet) franchise. That is a fact.
B. The other guys you mention, Noll, Walsh, Johnson.....had shit for talent on the rosters they inherited...and they had a big hand in bringing the talent and developing it during the first few years of their existence. It was clearly evident with those guys, that despite their losing records that they knew what they were doing. The same is not true here. It has been clearly evident that the guys we have dumped deserved to be dumped...and they were not ultimately qualified.
C. You mention the vast minority of situations. 4 coaches in the last 50 years have accomplished what you claim. That means hundreds have not. Building a system is great....if you have the product to build that system with.....and that product comes around very rarely. Those guys are the vast exception to the rule...NOT the norm. Do you want the names of those 100+ other coaches that didn't do a thing?
Exactly Gipper. there's no comparison between the Noll, Johnson situations and Freddie. The first two were in the midst of massive rebuilds with talent deficient teams. To put it in a race car analogy, by comparison- Freddie got handed the keys to a Formula One playoff ready race car- and he kept driving it into the wall time after time. But to be fair to Freddie- he got his previous driving experience at Malibu Grand Prix.
What amazes me is the multiple times guys like Romeo Crennell and Pat Shur-loss keep on getting multiple tries for redemption- and continue to prove they can't coach their way out of a paper bag.
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Were this a grace and poise competition it would have been stopped long ago...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
So whats the number of Browns coaches that have been fired that have go on to become legendary with another team?
As was pointed out Bill B wasn't fired by the Browns but by Schmodell after the move, who will go down in history as the only owner to fire TWO HOF coaches.
The only former Browns coach to have somewhat of a successful post Browns resume is Marty Schottenheimer, who essentially quit because of F-artie. I suppose I should lay my opinion of Rob Chudinski getting axed too soon to rest, because if he was truly HC material, he should at least have gotten a HC offer or two by now.
A few things:
A. Bill Belichick was not fired as the coach of the Cleveland Browns franchise. He was fired as coach of the Baltimore Modell (unnamed as yet) franchise. That is a fact.
B. The other guys you mention, Noll, Walsh, Johnson.....had shit for talent on the rosters they inherited...and they had a big hand in bringing the talent and developing it during the first few years of their existence. It was clearly evident with those guys, that despite their losing records that they knew what they were doing. The same is not true here. It has been clearly evident that the guys we have dumped deserved to be dumped...and they were not ultimately qualified.
C. You mention the vast minority of situations. 4 coaches in the last 50 years have accomplished what you claim. That means hundreds have not. Building a system is great....if you have the product to build that system with.....and that product comes around very rarely. Those guys are the vast exception to the rule...NOT the norm. Do you want the names of those 100+ other coaches that didn't do a thing?
Exactly Gipper. there's no comparison between the Noll, Johnson situations and Freddie. The first two were in the midst of massive rebuilds with talent deficient teams. To put it in a race car analogy, by comparison- Freddie got handed the keys to a Formula One playoff ready race car- and he kept driving it into the wall time after time. But to be fair to Freddie- he got his previous driving experience at Malibu Grand Prix.
What amazes me is the multiple times guys like Romeo Crennell and Pat Shur-loss keep on getting multiple tries for redemption- and continue to prove they can't coach their way out of a paper bag.
What amazes me is the multiple times guys like Romeo Crennell and Pat Shur-loss keep on getting multiple tries for redemption- and continue to prove they can't coach their way out of a paper bag.
Not that hard to understand, h. Both have really had only two bites at the HC apple and in between those bites had strong stints as Coordinators.
Neither has the kind of "driven" personality I'd want in a HC, but different Owners/ Organizations like different types.
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I'm not going to pine for a HC who has been sitting idle for a year with a couple of hand-picked coordinators no one in the NFL ran after...
Not to mention that the team that fired that HC for going 7-9 and 6-9-1 in his last two seasons looked reborn on their way to 13-3 and a 1st-round bye.
didnt pete carrol while at The Ohio State coach st ?
He was 2ndary coach under Earl Bruce at tOSU... I don't seee any ST mentioned...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Carroll#Collegiate_assistant_(1973–1983)
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These are just facts, do with them what you will...
This is my attempt to bring to light the glaring (and never discussed) problem that makes the Cleveland Browns the perennial butt of jokes. I'm going to compare the first 2 seasons of some legendary NFL coaches with Browns head coaches and the "churn and burn" mentality. Oh, and I'm only doing this from 1999 to present because this is a completely different franchise from the one that Modell stole from Cleveland back in the day. Sorry, not sorry.
The average tenure of a Cleveland Browns head coach is just 1.9 seasons (Please pause to let that sink in). Since that's nearly 2 full seasons I'll give the the records of other legendary head coaches' first 2 seasons to show why teams shouldn't give up on coaches so quickly. I'll also list their championship resume to really emphasize the point:
Bill Belichick:
- First 2 Seasons as Patriots HC: 5-11 in 2000, 11-5 in 2001
- 6 Super Bowl victories
Chuck Noll:
- First 2 Seasons as Steelers HC: 1-13 in 1969, 5-9 in 1970
- 4 Super Bowl victories
Bill Walsh:
- First 2 seasons as 49ers HC: 2-14 in 1979, 6-10 in 1980
- 3 Super Bowl victories
Jimmy Johnson:
- First 2 seasons as Cowboys HC: 1-15 in 1989, 7-9 in 1990
- 2 Super Bowl victories
You get the idea. Had these teams bailed on their head coaches after one season (like Cleveland so often does) the trophy cases in New England, Pittsburgh, San Francisco, and Dallas would look A LOT different today. Maybe this is an extreme comparison but my point is that these organizations didn't just stick with these guys, they actually f&@#ing build something that could last!!!
The point I'm trying to get across is the Browns need to stick with head coaches long enough to have a winning system and culture!
Still don't believe me?!? This will blow your mind . . . There have only been TWO Browns coaches that made it a full 3 seasons as the head coach. And ya know what they did in their third season? I'll tell ya what they did!! 9-7 record and playoff appearance in 2002, 10-6 record and nearly missed playoffs in 2007 (weird year). Are you sensing a theme yet?? New England has been doing this for 2 decades with great success, Pittsburgh has only had 3 coaches since mankind first walked on the moon they're alright.
Jimmy Haslam, if you're reading this (which I doubt) please, Please, PLEASE stick with a coach long enough to BUILD A SYSTEM, stop this endless rotation of quarterbacks and coordinators, and stop embarrassing Cleveland's football legacy.
Thank you for coming to my TED Talk...
A few things:
A. Bill Belichick was not fired as the coach of the Cleveland Browns franchise. He was fired as coach of the Baltimore Modell (unnamed as yet) franchise. That is a fact.
B. The other guys you mention, Noll, Walsh, Johnson.....had shit for talent on the rosters they inherited...and they had a big hand in bringing the talent and devolping it during the first few years of their existence. It was clearly evident with those guys, that despite their losing records that they knew what they were doing. The same is not true here. It has been clearly evident that the guys we have dumped deserved to be dumped...and they were not ultimately qualified.
C. You mention the vast minority of situations. 4 coaches in the last 50 years have accomplished what you claim. That means hundreds have not. Building a system is great....if you have the product to build that system with.....and that product comes around very rarely. Those guys are the vast exception to the rule...NOT the norm. Do you want the names of those 100+ other coaches that didn't do a thing?
A few things:
A. Bill Belichick was not fired as the coach of the Cleveland Browns franchise. He was fired as coach of the Baltimore Modell (unnamed as yet) franchise. That is a fact.
B. The other guys you mention, Noll, Walsh, Johnson.....had shit for talent on the rosters they inherited...and they had a big hand in bringing the talent and devolping it during the first few years of their existence. It was clearly evident with those guys, that despite their losing records that they knew what they were doing. The same is not true here. It has been clearly evident that the guys we have dumped deserved to be dumped...and they were not ultimately qualified.
C. You mention the vast minority of situations. 4 coaches in the last 50 years have accomplished what you claim. That means hundreds have not. Building a system is great....if you have the product to build that system with.....and that product comes around very rarely. Those guys are the vast exception to the rule...NOT the norm. Do you want the names of those 100+ other coaches that didn't do a thing?
Exactly, since the browns come back in 99 how many these coaches that got fired went on to be anything like the one's he mentioned? How many chances we give these coaches isn't the problem. The problem is the one's we hired to start with.
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