Peter King on the Browns
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absentee ownership usually, (not always) leads to a less quality product.
In my opinion, an owner should have a interest in the city his team represents. (and not just a fincancial interest)
Randy was given a football team. He didn't grow up in the organization, work his way through like most of the family run NFL team new generation of owners did. He wasn't a fan of the team (or even the sport if reports are correct) prior to being given the team.
I don't blame him for the poor records, I just lose a little "fandom" due to the fact that he is the way he is.
Can it work,? maybe.
It just reminds me that its a business, not a passion, for the man who owns the team we root for.
The Soldier said:
absentee ownership usually, (not always) leads to a less quality product.In my opinion, an owner should have a interest in the city his team represents. (and not just a fincancial interest)
Randy was given a football team. He didn't grow up in the organization, work his way through like most of the family run NFL team new generation of owners did. He wasn't a fan of the team (or even the sport if reports are correct) prior to being given the team.
I don't blame him for the poor records, I just lose a little "fandom" due to the fact that he is the way he is.
Can it work,? maybe.
It just reminds me that its a business, not a passion, for the man who owns the team we root for.
Define absentee?
Randy Lerner grew up a Browns fan and was a fan while his father ran the team. Guy was going to Browns games as a kid with his father.
http://www.centry.com/browns/owner.html
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3725743
People couldn't be further from the truth. Know something about his background before speaking on it.
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@jadbf said:
Ok here's a little test for those of you in the "we need an owner who cares!" camp.and even though you can cheat in this day of google, do us all an honest favor and don't, take this test honestly.
Name the owners of all the NFL teams???
can you name more than 10 out of 32? Can you tell me for sure where they live in relation to thier team? can you tell me how much they really care about their team?
Now, how many of the well know owners that "care" on that list would you consider a good owner??
now i'd like you to take a list of owners that show alot of interest in their teams and are fans of the game and have a real passion for it and compare it to the list of owners that have a superbowl win in the last 15yrs and i bet alot more of the owners that "care" have more championships than the owners that just have a NFL team as a good investment.
passion = winning.
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@jadbf said:
Ok here's a little test for those of you in the "we need an owner who cares!" camp.and even though you can cheat in this day of google, do us all an honest favor and don't, take this test honestly.
Name the owners of all the NFL teams???
can you name more than 10 out of 32? Can you tell me for sure where they live in relation to thier team? can you tell me how much they really care about their team?
Now, how many of the well know owners that "care" on that list would you consider a good owner??
now i'd like you to take a list of owners that show alot of interest in their teams and are fans of the game and have a real passion for it and compare it to the list of owners that have a superbowl win in the last 15yrs and i bet alot more of the owners that "care" have more championships than the owners that just have a NFL team as a good investment.
passion = winning.
Nafreleets said:
now i'd like you to take a list of owners that show alot of interest in their teams and are fans of the game and have a real passion for it and compare it to the list of owners that have a superbowl win in the last 15yrs and i bet alot more of the owners that "care" have more championships than the owners that just have a NFL team as a good investment.passion = winning.
And to what do you base your assessment that Lerner has no passion?
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@jadbf said:
PassionDaniel Snyder
Al Davis
Heck while the Rooney's and Robert Kraft definitely have built winning franchises. They are not at all "passionate" in my book. They hire the right people to do the job and then stand back and watch them do it. Sounds familiar does it not?
but even right there. That's 4 examples. two horrible and two incredible. what does that get you?
Right back to my original point, changing owership gives you and best a 50-50 shot of eventually getting better....is it really worth the risk?
Add in Jerry Jones. When was the last time the Cowboys won a playoff game again.....
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@jadbf said:
ahh we're back to the "Lerner should sell the team so we can get an owner who cares more" theme are we?I always have to bring reality into these discussions
BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR.
DANIEL SNYDER really cares about the Wshington Redskins. Do you really want an owner like him? Al Davis Really cares about the Raiders. Nuff said.
That's not even to begin to mention there is no guarantee a new owner wouldn't try to move the team.
the only thing an owner can do to help his team win is hire the right front office people and head coach. Anything else is pure pablom for the fans.
It has been commonly said that the Browns and Indians owners should swap teams as the Indians are in a no salary cap league....and Randy Lerner's money would have helped the Tribe keep all those good players that the Dolan's could not afford to keep. Lerner's $$$ would have allowed the Tribe to compete with the fat cats in baseball that can now spend unlimited amouts of money, like the Yankees and Red Sox. Whereas, the Dolans would be on an equal footing financially in the NFL with everyone else with the salary cap system there. Whatever the Dolans have done wrong, and it is plenty, they have been able to nurture good talent. They just cannot keep it when it is time to put up the cash. First Thome and Manny, then C.C., now Cliff Lee and Martinez.
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i think the fans and city of cleveland would DEFINATELY do a better job as owners than you current owner. the drive of a team inevitably comes from the top down and your owner is driven only to have the browns be profitable (wich they are seeing as how you guys still are filling the stadium and buying merchandise) not champions.
the best thing you guys could do to either 1. put pressure on him to sell the team or 2. put pressure on him to put more emphasis on winning than being profitable.
and the best way to put pressure on a owner?
his pocket........
you guys need to stage a walkout at a game or all stop buying browns gear.
christ, the browns storied loyalty is the best thing that ever happen to this business decision.
i mean, who else would be loyal (or stupid, depending on who you ask) enough to continue standing by their team and selling out the stadium even after an entire decade of putrid football play with no end in sight?
take my advice and hit him in his pocketbook.......you'd be surprised at how fast and often the browns are going deep into the playoffs.
Nafreleets said:
i think the fans and city of cleveland would DEFINATELY do a better job as owners than you current ownerAre you out of your mind? Have you seen the way things are run by the City of Cleveland? Lerner is not lacking for passion, he is an owner who doesn't have a football acumen on par with some in the league, so he has to rely on those he hires. But to say he needs to sell is not only un-American, it does not take into account the investment he has made and the money he'd lose selling right now. Also, he has given each and every person he hires the best of everything, so he has given them the tools they require. Blaming ownership in this case is ignorant of the situation and the causes.
City of Cleveland as owners? Are you dense?
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just an opinion... just something about an owner that has to be in town on Monday morning.
Of course I have no control over who owns the Browns, and as long as they win, whomever is fine. I just like the local flavor, the guy who says "I represent Cleveland"
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just an opinion... just something about an owner that has to be in town on Monday morning.
Of course I have no control over who owns the Browns, and as long as they win, whomever is fine. I just like the local flavor, the guy who says "I represent Cleveland"
The Soldier said:
Of course I have no control over who owns the Browns, and as long as they win, whomever is fine. I just like the local flavor, the guy who says "I represent Cleveland"Can you really get more local than Lerner? Grew up in Cleveland, went to Browns games as a kid, and wore Browns PJ's to bed every night.
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Keep in mind that Kraft, who's one of the best owners in the league, ended up losing the Tuna because Parcells thought he meddled too much. It wasn't until after the failed Pete Carroll experiment that Kraft found the right head coach and management structure. And it's the one Lerner's trying to emulate.
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@inspecta said:
First of all, you guys act like caring about your team and having the football acumen to build a winner are mutually exclusive, they are not.Lerner, is NOT always at the games on gameday, and rarely travels with the team.
He bought the soccer franchise before he made the Browns a winner. Make the Browns winners first, then go play with your faggoty soccer team. He basically divided his time/attention/care between the Browns and a soccer team. I can't stress enough how much of a f*ck you that is to the city and fans of Cleveland.
Also, I don't believe there's any chance in hell another owner would ever be able to move a team out of Cleveland. We've sucked for 10 years now and still sell out just about every game. Besides the owners would never allow it, hell congress would never allow it. Perhaps you forgot what a controversy it was when Modell did it way back when. Like the Jews say about the Holocaust, never again (no im not seriously comparing the two, so don't get your panties in a bunch)
I just don't think he's a good owner. And perhaps some have called him "meddling" but I've never made that accusation.
So what does he have to do to show he cares? This is subjective.
I have not heard of him not being at home games unless work had him out of town. Even if not there, do you know he isn't watching? It's unfounded accusations.
So what if he bought a soccer team before he made the Browns a winner. By reports, he isn't exactly hands on w/ that soccer team. He put a management team in place there like he has tried to do with the Browns. He had more success with that plan with the soccer team. Let's also not make it out like it is that easy to make the Browns a winning team, especially on your first go around as the owner.
I think we should all see what happens on this second go around before calling for his head. It's not like he didn't can an entire staff, and ate the cost of it (including the extension part). Guys who don't care as owners don't usually pay big contract buyouts.
And again, where are the calls for Gilberts head for not living in CLE.
Masters said:
So what does he have to do to show he cares? This is subjective.I have not heard of him not being at home games unless work had him out of town. Even if not there, do you know he isn't watching? It's unfounded accusations.
So what if he bought a soccer team before he made the Browns a winner. By reports, he isn't exactly hands on w/ that soccer team. He put a management team in place there like he has tried to do with the Browns. He had more success with that plan with the soccer team. Let's also not make it out like it is that easy to make the Browns a winning team, especially on your first go around as the owner.
I think we should all see what happens on this second go around before calling for his head. It's not like he didn't can an entire staff, and ate the cost of it (including the extension part). Guys who don't care as owners don't usually pay big contract buyouts.
And again, where are the calls for Gilberts head for not living in CLE.
Well, figure it out, Jerry Reinsdorf owns both the Chicago Bulls and the White Sox. As owner he brought multiple titles to that town with his NBA team, and a World Series winner with the White Sox. So, you can do both.
The Glazers own the Tampa Bay Bucs and won a Super Bowl, and they also own Manchester United and won championships over there with that team. So, this sort of thing can be done.
It just comes down to getting the right organization/coaching/talent in here.
Lerner's job is to spend his cash, not to coach or GM etc. By all indications he is spending all the money he needs to be successful. I just hasn't worked....yet.
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@jadbf said:
PassionDaniel Snyder
Al Davis
Heck while the Rooney's and Robert Kraft definitely have built winning franchises. They are not at all "passionate" in my book. They hire the right people to do the job and then stand back and watch them do it. Sounds familiar does it not?
but even right there. That's 4 examples. two horrible and two incredible. what does that get you?
Right back to my original point, changing owership gives you and best a 50-50 shot of eventually getting better....is it really worth the risk?
Add in Jerry Jones. When was the last time the Cowboys won a playoff game again.....
Masters said:
Add in Jerry Jones. When was the last time the Cowboys won a playoff game again.....Jerry Jones was upset that Jimmy Johnson received too much credit
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Masters said:
Add in Jerry Jones. When was the last time the Cowboys won a playoff game again.....Jerry Jones was upset that Jimmy Johnson received too much credit
Jerry Jones was upset that Jimmy Johnson received too much credit
That has worked out so well for Jerry...lol
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@jadbf said:
Ok here's a little test for those of you in the "we need an owner who cares!" camp.and even though you can cheat in this day of google, do us all an honest favor and don't, take this test honestly.
Name the owners of all the NFL teams???
can you name more than 10 out of 32? Can you tell me for sure where they live in relation to thier team? can you tell me how much they really care about their team?
Now, how many of the well know owners that "care" on that list would you consider a good owner??
OK, let's see if I can name as many of these as I can, since you have issued the challenge:
Patriots: Robert Kraft
Jets: Don't know now, used to be Hess, but he died and sold
Giants: the Tisch/Mara families
Buffalo: Ralph Wilson Jr.
Eagles: Jeffrey Laurie
Steelers: Dan Rooney
Ravens: Steven Biscotti
Redskins: Dan Snyder
Panthers: Jerry? Richardson
Jags: Wayne Weaver
Tampa: Malcolm Glazer and family
Miami: new owner is Roth or Ross, something like that
Titans: still Bud Adams
Bengals: Mike Brown
Browns: Randy Lerner
Lions: William Ford
Bears: McCaskey/Halas family
Packers: Citizens of Green Bay
Vikings: this one, I don't know
Rams: I believe the estate of Georgia Frontiere still owns. Not sure if her son has decided to take over or sell
Chiefs: Hunt family still I believe. Heirs of Lamar Hunt
Saints: Tom Benson
Texans: Robert McNair? I believe
Cowboys: Jerry Jones of course
Broncos: Pat Bowlen
Cardinals: still Bill Bidwell
Chargers: not sure. Was Alex Spanos. He may have died. Not sure if sold
Raiders: Al Davis
49ers: York/DeBartolo
Seahawks: I believe Paul Allen owns them
Colts: Jim Irsay
Falcons: Home Depot guy...Arthur Blank
All this off the top of my head. How'd I do?
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@jadbf said:
Ok here's a little test for those of you in the "we need an owner who cares!" camp.and even though you can cheat in this day of google, do us all an honest favor and don't, take this test honestly.
Name the owners of all the NFL teams???
can you name more than 10 out of 32? Can you tell me for sure where they live in relation to thier team? can you tell me how much they really care about their team?
Now, how many of the well know owners that "care" on that list would you consider a good owner??
OK, let's see if I can name as many of these as I can, since you have issued the challenge:
Patriots: Robert Kraft
Jets: Don't know now, used to be Hess, but he died and sold
Giants: the Tisch/Mara families
Buffalo: Ralph Wilson Jr.
Eagles: Jeffrey Laurie
Steelers: Dan Rooney
Ravens: Steven Biscotti
Redskins: Dan Snyder
Panthers: Jerry? Richardson
Jags: Wayne Weaver
Tampa: Malcolm Glazer and family
Miami: new owner is Roth or Ross, something like that
Titans: still Bud Adams
Bengals: Mike Brown
Browns: Randy Lerner
Lions: William Ford
Bears: McCaskey/Halas family
Packers: Citizens of Green Bay
Vikings: this one, I don't know
Rams: I believe the estate of Georgia Frontiere still owns. Not sure if her son has decided to take over or sell
Chiefs: Hunt family still I believe. Heirs of Lamar Hunt
Saints: Tom Benson
Texans: Robert McNair? I believe
Cowboys: Jerry Jones of course
Broncos: Pat Bowlen
Cardinals: still Bill Bidwell
Chargers: not sure. Was Alex Spanos. He may have died. Not sure if sold
Raiders: Al Davis
49ers: York/DeBartolo
Seahawks: I believe Paul Allen owns them
Colts: Jim Irsay
Falcons: Home Depot guy...Arthur Blank
All this off the top of my head. How'd I do?
OK, let's see if I can name as many of these as I can, since you have issued the challenge:
Patriots: Robert Kraft
Jets: Don't know now, used to be Hess, but he died and sold
Giants: the Tisch/Mara families
Buffalo: Ralph Wilson Jr.
Eagles: Jeffrey Laurie
Steelers: Dan Rooney
Ravens: Steven Biscotti
Redskins: Dan Snyder
Panthers: Jerry? Richardson
Jags: Wayne Weaver
Tampa: Malcolm Glazer and family
Miami: new owner is Roth or Ross, something like that
Titans: still Bud Adams
Bengals: Mike Brown
Browns: Randy Lerner
Lions: William Ford
Bears: McCaskey/Halas family
Packers: Citizens of Green Bay
Vikings: this one, I don't know
Rams: I believe the estate of Georgia Frontiere still owns. Not sure if her son has decided to take over or sell
Chiefs: Hunt family still I believe. Heirs of Lamar Hunt
Saints: Tom Benson
Texans: Robert McNair? I believe
Cowboys: Jerry Jones of course
Broncos: Pat Bowlen
Cardinals: still Bill Bidwell
Chargers: not sure. Was Alex Spanos. He may have died. Not sure if sold
Raiders: Al Davis
49ers: York/DeBartolo
Seahawks: I believe Paul Allen owns them
Colts: Jim Irsay
Falcons: Home Depot guy...Arthur Blank
All this off the top of my head. How'd I do?
That is pretty good for the first part of JADBF's challenge
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Or, is McNair the owner of the Astros? He is owner of one of the Houston teams. If not the DATs then I don't know who the owner of that team is.
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I can't understand anyone who points the finger at Lerner and says 'you haven't done enough.' WTF?
He gave Savage pretty much all the dollars needed to sign FA's, no matter how smart we think that was on Savage's part. He gave Savage the tools to do what Savage said needed done.
Now we're saying he doesn't know WTF he is doing simply because he doesn't bunk in Berea? Unbelievable!
We had some bad management, but we went after guys who had won before - won it all.
Policy - had a history with SF
Davis - Jimmy Johnson's DC. Butch put Miami back on the map!
Savage - protege' of one of the best GM's in the league in Ozzie
Mangini - does it almost exactly like Parcells and BB.
The guy is trying to make it work, and at the same time keep the people of Cleveland involved.
Some people say he is too hands on and question whether he MADE the staff choose Quinn, and some think he is not here enough.
I think the guy is doing what he is supposed to do - sign the checks and hire the right people. Hasn't worked out the way he likes, but he is trying.
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@jadbf said:
Ok here's a little test for those of you in the "we need an owner who cares!" camp.and even though you can cheat in this day of google, do us all an honest favor and don't, take this test honestly.
Name the owners of all the NFL teams???
can you name more than 10 out of 32? Can you tell me for sure where they live in relation to thier team? can you tell me how much they really care about their team?
Now, how many of the well know owners that "care" on that list would you consider a good owner??
OK, let's see if I can name as many of these as I can, since you have issued the challenge:
Patriots: Robert Kraft
Jets: Don't know now, used to be Hess, but he died and sold
Giants: the Tisch/Mara families
Buffalo: Ralph Wilson Jr.
Eagles: Jeffrey Laurie
Steelers: Dan Rooney
Ravens: Steven Biscotti
Redskins: Dan Snyder
Panthers: Jerry? Richardson
Jags: Wayne Weaver
Tampa: Malcolm Glazer and family
Miami: new owner is Roth or Ross, something like that
Titans: still Bud Adams
Bengals: Mike Brown
Browns: Randy Lerner
Lions: William Ford
Bears: McCaskey/Halas family
Packers: Citizens of Green Bay
Vikings: this one, I don't know
Rams: I believe the estate of Georgia Frontiere still owns. Not sure if her son has decided to take over or sell
Chiefs: Hunt family still I believe. Heirs of Lamar Hunt
Saints: Tom Benson
Texans: Robert McNair? I believe
Cowboys: Jerry Jones of course
Broncos: Pat Bowlen
Cardinals: still Bill Bidwell
Chargers: not sure. Was Alex Spanos. He may have died. Not sure if sold
Raiders: Al Davis
49ers: York/DeBartolo
Seahawks: I believe Paul Allen owns them
Colts: Jim Irsay
Falcons: Home Depot guy...Arthur Blank
All this off the top of my head. How'd I do?
OK, let's see if I can name as many of these as I can, since you have issued the challenge:
Damn fine job, I couldn't list 1/2 of them.
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I can't understand anyone who points the finger at Lerner and says 'you haven't done enough.' WTF?
He gave Savage pretty much all the dollars needed to sign FA's, no matter how smart we think that was on Savage's part. He gave Savage the tools to do what Savage said needed done.
Now we're saying he doesn't know WTF he is doing simply because he doesn't bunk in Berea? Unbelievable!
We had some bad management, but we went after guys who had won before - won it all.
Policy - had a history with SF
Davis - Jimmy Johnson's DC. Butch put Miami back on the map!
Savage - protege' of one of the best GM's in the league in Ozzie
Mangini - does it almost exactly like Parcells and BB.
The guy is trying to make it work, and at the same time keep the people of Cleveland involved.
Some people say he is too hands on and question whether he MADE the staff choose Quinn, and some think he is not here enough.
I think the guy is doing what he is supposed to do - sign the checks and hire the right people. Hasn't worked out the way he likes, but he is trying.
I can't understand anyone who points the finger at Lerner and says 'you haven't done enough.' WTF?
He gave Savage pretty much all the dollars needed to sign FA's, no matter how smart we think that was on Savage's part. He gave Savage the tools to do what Savage said needed done.
Now we're saying he doesn't know WTF he is doing simply because he doesn't bunk in Berea? Unbelievable!
We had some bad management, but we went after guys who had won before - won it all.
Policy - had a history with SF
Davis - Jimmy Johnson's DC. Butch put Miami back on the map!
Savage - protege' of one of the best GM's in the league in Ozzie
Mangini - does it almost exactly like Parcells and BB.
The guy is trying to make it work, and at the same time keep the people of Cleveland involved.
Some people say he is too hands on and question whether he MADE the staff choose Quinn, and some think he is not here enough.
I think the guy is doing what he is supposed to do - sign the checks and hire the right people. Hasn't worked out the way he likes, but he is trying.
Exactly VegasDogg! What do you guys wanna be like the Indians and keep someone around just for continunity sake when you know it's not working.
So what if he doesn't live here at least he gets rid of people when it's not working. At least he's trying and you can't fault him for that.
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@inspecta said:
Geez, I got everybody all worked up cause I dissed the owner.Well on Lerner's watch we went from having a record advantage over Pittburgh that we've held for like 50 years to giving that up to the Steelers.
Of course it's not all Lerners fault that we've lost so much, but he did hire the people who gave us losing seasons. the buck has to stop somewhere.
Your right it was only his first hire, but the buying of that soccer team really chapped my ass, and I guess a lot of you forget that right after he bought it the plain dealer ran a story about him spending a considerable amount of time over in England getting everything set up for that soccer team. That was time that could of been spent on the Browns, in any capacity.
That, and like I said, he got his wealth from screwing people over with his credit card company. Yeah you can say all owners are spoiled rich kids, but that's not always the case, you have owners like Ralph Wilson (who was just inducted to the hall of fame this weekend) who have been stand up guys.
anyway, like soldier said, it's just my opinion, and if we have a winning team again I'll go back to not giving a shit who owns the team.
I am a bit ticked about Lerner. I rather have a hands-on owner like Jerry Jones than have Lerner.
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@jadbf said:
Given your Trivia threads and other posts. I figured you could give that list a good go. and I have NO QUESTION in my mind that was off the top of your head.
And after checking the ones I didn't know or had questions about here are the confirmed owners of those teams:
McNair IS the owner of the Texans
Alex Spanos is still the owner of the Chargers....though for some reason I thought the died. (he has got to be like 90)
The Hunt family still owns the Chiefs. Clark Hunt is the Chairman.
Chip Rosenbloom and Lucy Rodriguez, children of Georgia Frontiere are the owners of the Ram, though they apparenty brought in a partner name Stan Kronake or something like that.
It is Steven Ross who is 95% owner of the Dolphins. Huizenga still maintains a 5% interest.
The Jets are owned by Woody Johnson
The Vikings are owned by Zygi Wilf.
As to the second part of the question, which one of these are "good owners", it is impossible to say.
There are the scumbags that have moved their team...but many of the worst of those are gone, i.e. Modell, Bob Irsay, Georgia....Bill Bidwill is all but a vegetable....as may be Al Davis??? Bud Adams is still around. (You know why Ralph Wilson gets in the HOF and Adams doesn't? Because Adams sold Houston down the river. He likely won't get in while he is alive....Modell will never get in, dead or alive).
You can't say William Ford is a good owner....if you go by winning as a measure. That team is a perennial loser.
Until last year the same could be said about the Cardinals. Thanks to young Mike Bidwill. Like the Irsays, I believe those two teams are in much more capable hands than when the new generation took over.
A hands on owner like Jerry Jones has in reality had no greater on field success than a hands off owner like Lerner.
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