Peter King on the Browns

[The Gipper]

@jadbf said:

ahh we're back to the "Lerner should sell the team so we can get an owner who cares more" theme are we?

I always have to bring reality into these discussions

BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR.

DANIEL SNYDER really cares about the Wshington Redskins. Do you really want an owner like him? Al Davis Really cares about the Raiders. Nuff said.

That's not even to begin to mention there is no guarantee a new owner wouldn't try to move the team.

the only thing an owner can do to help his team win is hire the right front office people and head coach. Anything else is pure pablom for the fans.

It has been commonly said that the Browns and Indians owners should swap teams as the Indians are in a no salary cap league....and Randy Lerner's money would have helped the Tribe keep all those good players that the Dolan's could not afford to keep. Lerner's $$$ would have allowed the Tribe to compete with the fat cats in baseball that can now spend unlimited amouts of money, like the Yankees and Red Sox. Whereas, the Dolans would be on an equal footing financially in the NFL with everyone else with the salary cap system there. Whatever the Dolans have done wrong, and it is plenty, they have been able to nurture good talent. They just cannot keep it when it is time to put up the cash. First Thome and Manny, then C.C., now Cliff Lee and Martinez.

[Vegasdogg]

Nafreleets said:

i think the fans and city of cleveland would DEFINATELY do a better job as owners than you current owner

Are you out of your mind? Have you seen the way things are run by the City of Cleveland? Lerner is not lacking for passion, he is an owner who doesn't have a football acumen on par with some in the league, so he has to rely on those he hires. But to say he needs to sell is not only un-American, it does not take into account the investment he has made and the money he'd lose selling right now. Also, he has given each and every person he hires the best of everything, so he has given them the tools they require. Blaming ownership in this case is ignorant of the situation and the causes.

City of Cleveland as owners? Are you dense?

[Captain Cheesedick]

just an opinion... just something about an owner that has to be in town on Monday morning.

Of course I have no control over who owns the Browns, and as long as they win, whomever is fine. I just like the local flavor, the guy who says "I represent Cleveland"

[Masters]

The Soldier said:

Of course I have no control over who owns the Browns, and as long as they win, whomever is fine. I just like the local flavor, the guy who says "I represent Cleveland"

Can you really get more local than Lerner? Grew up in Cleveland, went to Browns games as a kid, and wore Browns PJ's to bed every night.

[Aloysius]

Keep in mind that Kraft, who's one of the best owners in the league, ended up losing the Tuna because Parcells thought he meddled too much. It wasn't until after the failed Pete Carroll experiment that Kraft found the right head coach and management structure. And it's the one Lerner's trying to emulate.

[The Gipper]

Masters said:

So what does he have to do to show he cares? This is subjective.

I have not heard of him not being at home games unless work had him out of town. Even if not there, do you know he isn't watching? It's unfounded accusations.

So what if he bought a soccer team before he made the Browns a winner. By reports, he isn't exactly hands on w/ that soccer team. He put a management team in place there like he has tried to do with the Browns. He had more success with that plan with the soccer team. Let's also not make it out like it is that easy to make the Browns a winning team, especially on your first go around as the owner.

I think we should all see what happens on this second go around before calling for his head. It's not like he didn't can an entire staff, and ate the cost of it (including the extension part). Guys who don't care as owners don't usually pay big contract buyouts.

And again, where are the calls for Gilberts head for not living in CLE.

Well, figure it out, Jerry Reinsdorf owns both the Chicago Bulls and the White Sox. As owner he brought multiple titles to that town with his NBA team, and a World Series winner with the White Sox. So, you can do both.

The Glazers own the Tampa Bay Bucs and won a Super Bowl, and they also own Manchester United and won championships over there with that team. So, this sort of thing can be done.

It just comes down to getting the right organization/coaching/talent in here.

Lerner's job is to spend his cash, not to coach or GM etc. By all indications he is spending all the money he needs to be successful. I just hasn't worked....yet.

[DawgTracker]

Masters said:

Add in Jerry Jones. When was the last time the Cowboys won a playoff game again.....

Jerry Jones was upset that Jimmy Johnson received too much credit

[Masters]

@dawgtracker said:

Jerry Jones was upset that Jimmy Johnson received too much credit

That has worked out so well for Jerry...lol

[The Gipper]

@jadbf said:

Ok here's a little test for those of you in the "we need an owner who cares!" camp.

and even though you can cheat in this day of google, do us all an honest favor and don't, take this test honestly.

Name the owners of all the NFL teams???

can you name more than 10 out of 32? Can you tell me for sure where they live in relation to thier team? can you tell me how much they really care about their team?

Now, how many of the well know owners that "care" on that list would you consider a good owner??

OK, let's see if I can name as many of these as I can, since you have issued the challenge:

Patriots: Robert Kraft

Jets: Don't know now, used to be Hess, but he died and sold

Giants: the Tisch/Mara families

Buffalo: Ralph Wilson Jr.

Eagles: Jeffrey Laurie

Steelers: Dan Rooney

Ravens: Steven Biscotti

Redskins: Dan Snyder

Panthers: Jerry? Richardson

Jags: Wayne Weaver

Tampa: Malcolm Glazer and family

Miami: new owner is Roth or Ross, something like that

Titans: still Bud Adams

Bengals: Mike Brown

Browns: Randy Lerner

Lions: William Ford

Bears: McCaskey/Halas family

Packers: Citizens of Green Bay

Vikings: this one, I don't know

Rams: I believe the estate of Georgia Frontiere still owns. Not sure if her son has decided to take over or sell

Chiefs: Hunt family still I believe. Heirs of Lamar Hunt

Saints: Tom Benson

Texans: Robert McNair? I believe

Cowboys: Jerry Jones of course

Broncos: Pat Bowlen

Cardinals: still Bill Bidwell

Chargers: not sure. Was Alex Spanos. He may have died. Not sure if sold

Raiders: Al Davis

49ers: York/DeBartolo

Seahawks: I believe Paul Allen owns them

Colts: Jim Irsay

Falcons: Home Depot guy...Arthur Blank

All this off the top of my head. How'd I do?

[Masters]

@the-gipper said:

OK, let's see if I can name as many of these as I can, since you have issued the challenge:

Patriots: Robert Kraft

Jets: Don't know now, used to be Hess, but he died and sold

Giants: the Tisch/Mara families

Buffalo: Ralph Wilson Jr.

Eagles: Jeffrey Laurie

Steelers: Dan Rooney

Ravens: Steven Biscotti

Redskins: Dan Snyder

Panthers: Jerry? Richardson

Jags: Wayne Weaver

Tampa: Malcolm Glazer and family

Miami: new owner is Roth or Ross, something like that

Titans: still Bud Adams

Bengals: Mike Brown

Browns: Randy Lerner

Lions: William Ford

Bears: McCaskey/Halas family

Packers: Citizens of Green Bay

Vikings: this one, I don't know

Rams: I believe the estate of Georgia Frontiere still owns. Not sure if her son has decided to take over or sell

Chiefs: Hunt family still I believe. Heirs of Lamar Hunt

Saints: Tom Benson

Texans: Robert McNair? I believe

Cowboys: Jerry Jones of course

Broncos: Pat Bowlen

Cardinals: still Bill Bidwell

Chargers: not sure. Was Alex Spanos. He may have died. Not sure if sold

Raiders: Al Davis

49ers: York/DeBartolo

Seahawks: I believe Paul Allen owns them

Colts: Jim Irsay

Falcons: Home Depot guy...Arthur Blank

All this off the top of my head. How'd I do?

That is pretty good for the first part of JADBF's challenge

[The Gipper]

Or, is McNair the owner of the Astros? He is owner of one of the Houston teams. If not the DATs then I don't know who the owner of that team is.

[Vegasdogg]

I can't understand anyone who points the finger at Lerner and says 'you haven't done enough.' WTF?

He gave Savage pretty much all the dollars needed to sign FA's, no matter how smart we think that was on Savage's part. He gave Savage the tools to do what Savage said needed done.

Now we're saying he doesn't know WTF he is doing simply because he doesn't bunk in Berea? Unbelievable!

We had some bad management, but we went after guys who had won before - won it all.

Policy - had a history with SF

Davis - Jimmy Johnson's DC. Butch put Miami back on the map!

Savage - protege' of one of the best GM's in the league in Ozzie

Mangini - does it almost exactly like Parcells and BB.

The guy is trying to make it work, and at the same time keep the people of Cleveland involved.

Some people say he is too hands on and question whether he MADE the staff choose Quinn, and some think he is not here enough.

I think the guy is doing what he is supposed to do - sign the checks and hire the right people. Hasn't worked out the way he likes, but he is trying.

[Vegasdogg]

@the-gipper said:

OK, let's see if I can name as many of these as I can, since you have issued the challenge:

Damn fine job, I couldn't list 1/2 of them.

[BernietheKid]

@vegasdogg said:

I can't understand anyone who points the finger at Lerner and says 'you haven't done enough.' WTF?

He gave Savage pretty much all the dollars needed to sign FA's, no matter how smart we think that was on Savage's part. He gave Savage the tools to do what Savage said needed done.

Now we're saying he doesn't know WTF he is doing simply because he doesn't bunk in Berea? Unbelievable!

We had some bad management, but we went after guys who had won before - won it all.

Policy - had a history with SF

Davis - Jimmy Johnson's DC. Butch put Miami back on the map!

Savage - protege' of one of the best GM's in the league in Ozzie

Mangini - does it almost exactly like Parcells and BB.

The guy is trying to make it work, and at the same time keep the people of Cleveland involved.

Some people say he is too hands on and question whether he MADE the staff choose Quinn, and some think he is not here enough.

I think the guy is doing what he is supposed to do - sign the checks and hire the right people. Hasn't worked out the way he likes, but he is trying.

Exactly VegasDogg! What do you guys wanna be like the Indians and keep someone around just for continunity sake when you know it's not working.

So what if he doesn't live here at least he gets rid of people when it's not working. At least he's trying and you can't fault him for that.

[dawgpound3]

@inspecta said:

Geez, I got everybody all worked up cause I dissed the owner.

Well on Lerner's watch we went from having a record advantage over Pittburgh that we've held for like 50 years to giving that up to the Steelers.

Of course it's not all Lerners fault that we've lost so much, but he did hire the people who gave us losing seasons. the buck has to stop somewhere.

Your right it was only his first hire, but the buying of that soccer team really chapped my ass, and I guess a lot of you forget that right after he bought it the plain dealer ran a story about him spending a considerable amount of time over in England getting everything set up for that soccer team. That was time that could of been spent on the Browns, in any capacity.

That, and like I said, he got his wealth from screwing people over with his credit card company. Yeah you can say all owners are spoiled rich kids, but that's not always the case, you have owners like Ralph Wilson (who was just inducted to the hall of fame this weekend) who have been stand up guys.

anyway, like soldier said, it's just my opinion, and if we have a winning team again I'll go back to not giving a shit who owns the team.

I am a bit ticked about Lerner. I rather have a hands-on owner like Jerry Jones than have Lerner.

[The Gipper]

@jadbf said:

Given your Trivia threads and other posts. I figured you could give that list a good go. and I have NO QUESTION in my mind that was off the top of your head.

And after checking the ones I didn't know or had questions about here are the confirmed owners of those teams:

McNair IS the owner of the Texans

Alex Spanos is still the owner of the Chargers....though for some reason I thought the died. (he has got to be like 90)

The Hunt family still owns the Chiefs. Clark Hunt is the Chairman.

Chip Rosenbloom and Lucy Rodriguez, children of Georgia Frontiere are the owners of the Ram, though they apparenty brought in a partner name Stan Kronake or something like that.

It is Steven Ross who is 95% owner of the Dolphins. Huizenga still maintains a 5% interest.

The Jets are owned by Woody Johnson

The Vikings are owned by Zygi Wilf.

As to the second part of the question, which one of these are "good owners", it is impossible to say.

There are the scumbags that have moved their team...but many of the worst of those are gone, i.e. Modell, Bob Irsay, Georgia....Bill Bidwill is all but a vegetable....as may be Al Davis??? Bud Adams is still around. (You know why Ralph Wilson gets in the HOF and Adams doesn't? Because Adams sold Houston down the river. He likely won't get in while he is alive....Modell will never get in, dead or alive).

You can't say William Ford is a good owner....if you go by winning as a measure. That team is a perennial loser.

Until last year the same could be said about the Cardinals. Thanks to young Mike Bidwill. Like the Irsays, I believe those two teams are in much more capable hands than when the new generation took over.

A hands on owner like Jerry Jones has in reality had no greater on field success than a hands off owner like Lerner.

[Masters]

@inspecta said:

Geez, I got everybody all worked up cause I dissed the owner.

Well on Lerner's watch we went from having a record advantage over Pittburgh that we've held for like 50 years to giving that up to the Steelers.

Of course it's not all Lerners fault that we've lost so much, but he did hire the people who gave us losing seasons. the buck has to stop somewhere.

Your right it was only his first hire, but the buying of that soccer team really chapped my ass, and I guess a lot of you forget that right after he bought it the plain dealer ran a story about him spending a considerable amount of time over in England getting everything set up for that soccer team. That was time that could of been spent on the Browns, in any capacity.

That, and like I said, he got his wealth from screwing people over with his credit card company. Yeah you can say all owners are spoiled rich kids, but that's not always the case, you have owners like Ralph Wilson (who was just inducted to the hall of fame this weekend) who have been stand up guys.

anyway, like soldier said, it's just my opinion, and if we have a winning team again I'll go back to not giving a shit who owns the team.

I think it is because you are dissing him with little to no rational backing for that opinion.

You just blame Randy for losing the record advantage over Pittsburgh. First, it has been slowly dwindling. And most of it lost over the 6 years before Randy was the owner. You can really only hold him accountable for the last 4 years (1 of which included a winning season). Under his watch the Browns just played on more nationally televised games in one season than they ever have.

So what if he spent setting up the soccer team? He had already setup the new management team in CLE. They didn't work out. What would he have been doing? He's not a football expert.

His dad's credit card company, not Randy's (though it became his for a few years, and then he sold it off). You can pick any owner and find something bad about how they came into their money. Heck, NFL ownership and money making is shady all by its self. This is really taking a personal bias agaisnt the guy, and has nothing to do w/ his ability as an owner.

Of course that is all just my opinion.

[Riffer X]

Masters said:

I think it is because you are dissing him with little to no rational backing for that opinion.

You just blame Randy for losing the record advantage over Pittsburgh. First, it has been slowly dwindling. And most of it lost over the 6 years before Randy was the owner. You can really only hold him accountable for the last 4 years (1 of which included a winning season). Under his watch the Browns just played on more nationally televised games in one season than they ever have.

So what if he spent setting up the soccer team? He had already setup the new management team in CLE. They didn't work out. What would he have been doing? He's not a football expert.

His dad's credit card company, not Randy's (though it became his for a few years, and then he sold it off). You can pick any owner and find something bad about how they came into their money. Heck, NFL ownership and money making is shady all by its self. This is really taking a personal bias agaisnt the guy, and has nothing to do w/ his ability as an owner.

Of course that is all just my opinion.

Gillooly was somebodies hero, who would have known?

[Gips]

Lerner has this one last shot at making the browns a viable team before clevelanders run him out of cleveland and new york..i think randy hired the right guy to get the browns winning like never before!

[dawgpound3]

@gips said:

Lerner has this one last shot at making the browns a viable team before clevelanders run him out of cleveland and new york..i think randy hired the right guy to get the browns winning like never before!

I sure hope so.