Bold idea that would change the landscape of sports in Cleveland
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A domed stadium is objectively better for the city. We just need a plan to get to one
Just an honest question for you Woody. Have you ever been to an NFL game in a Dome? (FWIW, I've been to five different ones) Sure, you can get more use out of it, but that's about all. Just my personal opinion about watching a game in a dome. Save your money, watch the game at home on your widescreen. You'll save a lot of money not having to buy a ticket, and the beer is 1\10th the cost. That's the ambiance, like sitting in your living room, and incidentally there's an NFL game going on. If that's what you prefer by all means build a dome.
I'm not going to dig them up, but there's plenty of articles by economists that the financial benefits of shelling out tons of money for these stadiums is vastly overstated.
I considered that. I was just going with proposal in the article. I clearly don't have all the details. I am sure there are other tracts of land that could be used. Even county wide. Nothing says it would have to be smack downtown. More and more teams are doing that because you just don't have the space in downtown areas.
No space? Exactly Russ. You'd need gobs of money just to clear a big enough footprint in a developed area. See below.
True on some carpooling but there's also the other area demands on parking like people going to the bars and hotels that want to be in the area. And the Jake is next door to the Gund when there's something going on there.
Plus Indians games draw 10 to 30,000 fans a football game would easily double that. Affordable parking is the #1 complaint or problem wherever you go for big draw venues followed by hotel space.
Where could you put new stadiums unless you tear down and rebuild on site -or- the sometimes less popular go to a greenfield site far from the city overcrowding and start new with the acres and acres of accessible parking......but you lose the city feel and ambiance of the team.
The Cleveland Avon Lake Browns !?
1) Regarding parking. You want close in, it's getting crazy. I love Steve's GNATS Tailgate, but Burke started charging $40 bucks this year. I'll hike from our under the bridge lot that's still only $10. If you want really nuts, parking for the Super Bowl at Jerry World was $100.
2) Boy do I have a Greenfield site for you. That will NEVER happen. The old Richfield Coliseum property. Cleveland isn't going to give up the tax revenue, and collateral gameday revenue from parking and bars.
Don't forget the Sin Tax either. If you build a new stadium its going to have to be somewhere in Cuyahoga county. And probably in Cleveland. Got any ideas for a depressed area where you could clear around a square mile with decent road access? Or a golf course?
Just an honest question for you Woody. Have you ever been to an NFL game in a Dome? (FWIW, I've been to five different ones) Sure, you can get more use out of it, but that's about all. Just my personal opinion about watching a game in a dome. Save your money, watch the game at home on your widescreen. You'll save a lot of money not having to buy a ticket, and the beer is 1\10th the cost. That's the ambiance, like sitting in your living room, and incidentally there's an NFL game going on. If that's what you prefer by all means build a dome.
I'm not going to dig them up, but there's plenty of articles by economists that the financial benefits of shelling out tons of money for these stadiums is vastly overstated.
No space? Exactly Russ. You'd need gobs of money just to clear a big enough footprint in a developed area. See below.
1) Regarding parking. You want close in, it's getting crazy. I love Steve's GNATS Tailgate, but Burke started charging $40 bucks this year. I'll hike from our under the bridge lot that's still only $10. If you want really nuts, parking for the Super Bowl at Jerry World was $100.
2) Boy do I have a Greenfield site for you. That will NEVER happen. The old Richfield Coliseum property. Cleveland isn't going to give up the tax revenue, and collateral gameday revenue from parking and bars.
Don't forget the Sin Tax either. If you build a new stadium its going to have to be somewhere in Cuyahoga county. And probably in Cleveland. Got any ideas for a depressed area where you could clear around a square mile with decent road access? Or a golf course?
The Richfield Coliseum site is now owned by the Cuyahoga Valley NP, and will never be developed that way again. That is not to say that there aren't many other privately owned sites with as much space around the outer rim of Cleveland that could be looked at.
Think about all the teams that carry the name of a city....that don't play in that city: Both NY teams. Buffalo Bills. Washington Redskins. Miami Dolphins. I believe that the new "LA" stadium will not actually be in LA, will it? San Francisco 49ers play 40 miles from SFO. Maybe some other. And, of course don't foget the "regional named teams": New England, Minnesota, Tennessee, Arizona, Carolina.
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MT.Scott golf course out here they just shortened the course and built homes around it
Where is "here" again?
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Just an honest question for you Woody. Have you ever been to an NFL game in a Dome? (FWIW, I've been to five different ones) Sure, you can get more use out of it, but that's about all. Just my personal opinion about watching a game in a dome. Save your money, watch the game at home on your widescreen. You'll save a lot of money not having to buy a ticket, and the beer is 1\10th the cost. That's the ambiance, like sitting in your living room, and incidentally there's an NFL game going on. If that's what you prefer by all means build a dome.
I'm not going to dig them up, but there's plenty of articles by economists that the financial benefits of shelling out tons of money for these stadiums is vastly overstated.
No space? Exactly Russ. You'd need gobs of money just to clear a big enough footprint in a developed area. See below.
1) Regarding parking. You want close in, it's getting crazy. I love Steve's GNATS Tailgate, but Burke started charging $40 bucks this year. I'll hike from our under the bridge lot that's still only $10. If you want really nuts, parking for the Super Bowl at Jerry World was $100.
2) Boy do I have a Greenfield site for you. That will NEVER happen. The old Richfield Coliseum property. Cleveland isn't going to give up the tax revenue, and collateral gameday revenue from parking and bars.
Don't forget the Sin Tax either. If you build a new stadium its going to have to be somewhere in Cuyahoga county. And probably in Cleveland. Got any ideas for a depressed area where you could clear around a square mile with decent road access? Or a golf course?
The Richfield Coliseum site is now owned by the Cuyahoga Valley NP, and will never be developed that way again. That is not to say that there aren't many other privately owned sites with as much space around the outer rim of Cleveland that could be looked at.
Think about all the teams that carry the name of a city....that don't play in that city: Both NY teams. Buffalo Bills. Washington Redskins. Miami Dolphins. I believe that the new "LA" stadium will not actually be in LA, will it? San Francisco 49ers play 40 miles from SFO. Maybe some other. And, of course don't foget the "regional named teams": New England, Minnesota, Tennessee, Arizona, Carolina.
The Richfield Coliseum site is now owned by the Cuyahoga Valley NP, and will never be developed that way again. That is not to say that there aren't many other privately owned sites with as much space around the outer rim of Cleveland that could be looked at.
Think about all the teams that carry the name of a city....that don't play in that city: Both NY teams. Buffalo Bills. Washington Redskins. Miami Dolphins. I believe that the new "LA" stadium will not actually be in LA, will it? San Francisco 49ers play 40 miles from SFO. Maybe some other. And, of course don't foget the "regional named teams": New England, Minnesota, Tennessee, Arizona, Carolina.
Didn't realize the National Park acquired the Richfield site Gipper. Regarding the new Rams digs SoFi Stadium- it's in Inglewood, southwest of LA.
Taking a quick look at satellite imagery of the Cleveland area- it's slim pickings to find open land. Highland Golf Course, and nothing until you get way out on the SW side near La Grange or Medina. Plenty of Parks- which are off limits to development.
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The Richfield Coliseum site is now owned by the Cuyahoga Valley NP, and will never be developed that way again. That is not to say that there aren't many other privately owned sites with as much space around the outer rim of Cleveland that could be looked at.
Think about all the teams that carry the name of a city....that don't play in that city: Both NY teams. Buffalo Bills. Washington Redskins. Miami Dolphins. I believe that the new "LA" stadium will not actually be in LA, will it? San Francisco 49ers play 40 miles from SFO. Maybe some other. And, of course don't foget the "regional named teams": New England, Minnesota, Tennessee, Arizona, Carolina.
Didn't realize the National Park acquired the Richfield site Gipper. Regarding the new Rams digs SoFi Stadium- it's in Inglewood, southwest of LA.
Taking a quick look at satellite imagery of the Cleveland area- it's slim pickings to find open land. Highland Golf Course, and nothing until you get way out on the SW side near La Grange or Medina. Plenty of Parks- which are off limits to development.
Didn't realize the National Park acquired the Richfield site Gipper. Regarding the new Rams digs SoFi Stadium- it's in Inglewood, southwest of LA.
Taking a quick look at satellite imagery of the Cleveland area- it's slim pickings to find open land. Highland Golf Course, and nothing until you get way out on the SW side near La Grange or Medina. Plenty of Parks- which are off limits to development.
Right...unless they start tearing down a whole neighborhood (blighted?)...or commercial district.
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Zombo said:
I don't know how you fit an NFL stadium and all of the extra parking in the footprint of Progressive. I don't think this was thought through.
Zombo
Parking is all over the place... That wouldn't be as big a deal as your other point - trying to fit a 65,000+ seat retractable domed football stadium into the footprint of what was a 43,000 seat baseball park. That could be interesting.
I'm trying to find how big the footprint of Progressive Field is in comparison to Seattle's CenturyLink Stadium - a football field that was creatively "crammed" into a relatively small area, but haven't yet.
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Zombo said:
I don't know how you fit an NFL stadium and all of the extra parking in the footprint of Progressive. I don't think this was thought through.
Zombo
Parking is all over the place... That wouldn't be as big a deal as your other point - trying to fit a 65,000+ seat retractable domed football stadium into the footprint of what was a 43,000 seat baseball park. That could be interesting.
I'm trying to find how big the footprint of Progressive Field is in comparison to Seattle's CenturyLink Stadium - a football field that was creatively "crammed" into a relatively small area, but haven't yet.
Parking is all over the place... That wouldn't be as big a deal as your other point - trying to fit a 65,000+ seat retractable domed football stadium into the footprint of what was a 43,000 seat baseball park. That could be interesting.
I'm sure if Modell had gone along- that site would have been configured completely differently. Of course by now, at 35+ years old- that stadium would be considered obsolete.
Did look it up- the oldest NFL stadium that hasn't been totally reconfigured (that's Soldier Field) is Arrowhead (1972) and will probably be in use for at least another 20 years. It was built to last. BTW- since you're looking for a new stadium- Kansas City also did it right. It's outside of town, the Royals stadium is next door, with probably a square mile of parking surrounding it. The Tailgating there is legendary.
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Didn't realize the National Park acquired the Richfield site Gipper. Regarding the new Rams digs SoFi Stadium- it's in Inglewood, southwest of LA.
Taking a quick look at satellite imagery of the Cleveland area- it's slim pickings to find open land. Highland Golf Course, and nothing until you get way out on the SW side near La Grange or Medina. Plenty of Parks- which are off limits to development.
Right...unless they start tearing down a whole neighborhood (blighted?)...or commercial district.
Right...unless they start tearing down a whole neighborhood (blighted?)...or commercial district.
I mean, in a city that at one time had over 900,000 people, and now has under 400,000, you have to think there's some room SOMEWHERE... ?
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Parking is all over the place... That wouldn't be as big a deal as your other point - trying to fit a 65,000+ seat retractable domed football stadium into the footprint of what was a 43,000 seat baseball park. That could be interesting.
I'm sure if Modell had gone along- that site would have been configured completely differently. Of course by now, at 35+ years old- that stadium would be considered obsolete.
Did look it up- the oldest NFL stadium that hasn't been totally reconfigured (that's Soldier Field) is Arrowhead (1972) and will probably be in use for at least another 20 years. It was built to last. BTW- since you're looking for a new stadium- Kansas City also did it right. It's outside of town, the Royals stadium is next door, with probably a square mile of parking surrounding it. The Tailgating there is legendary.
Did look it up- the oldest NFL stadium that hasn't been totally reconfigured (that's Soldier Field) is Arrowhead (1972) and will probably be in use for at least another 20 years. It was built to last. BTW- since you're looking for a new stadium- Kansas City also did it right. It's outside of town, the Royals stadium is next door, with probably a square mile of parking surrounding it. The Tailgating there is legendary.
Your feeling on watching a football game indoors is akin to my thoughts on building stadiums in the sticks and surrounding them with parking lots.
Zero ambiance.
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I did a fairly close aerial inspection (google maps) of Cleveland, and honestly I do not see any footprint big enough to support a stadium and the parking you say is needed. There may be some old industrial sites in the Flats, but traffic in and out of there would be a nightmare. There may be some space south of I480.....but then you are getting into the suburbs. Or unless you take up valuable park land, which the parks would not give up....and besides, the terrain in those park areas would not be suitable...hill/streams/rivers. You could maybe find land in Brunswick or Medina County.
Or...hey, something like this: take over a golf course and build it there. Like, say, Sleepy Hollow, or ones near Fairview Park. Golf courses are going out of business like crazy around here. The oldest golf course in Summit County is going out.
What did Rodney Dangerfield say about golf courses and cemeteries, the two biggest wastes of real estate there is. (Caddyshack)
Golf courses make great housing developments all landscaped out -or- maybe a good starting point for a mega stadium complex with parking !
What did Rodney Dangerfield say about golf courses and cemeteries, the two biggest wastes of real estate there is. (Caddyshack)
Golf courses make great housing developments all landscaped out -or- maybe a good starting point for a mega stadium complex with parking !
Cemetaries have people dying to get in.
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What did Rodney Dangerfield say about golf courses and cemeteries, the two biggest wastes of real estate there is. (Caddyshack)
Golf courses make great housing developments all landscaped out -or- maybe a good starting point for a mega stadium complex with parking !
Well, that is just what is happening to a couple of them around here. Brookside Country Club in Norton, perhaps the oldest golf course in Summit Co. has been sold to real estate developers.
Valley View...gone. Brandywine CC....gone. Both Summit Co. Pine Valley near me here in Medina Co. almost suffered the same fate, but apparently the land developer has decided that it will be saved.
I a guessing that Millenials just don't like to play golf as much as older generations.
Well, that is just what is happening to a couple of them around here. Brookside Country Club in Norton, perhaps the oldest golf course in Summit Co. has been sold to real estate developers.
Valley View...gone. Brandywine CC....gone. Both Summit Co. Pine Valley near me here in Medina Co. almost suffered the same fate, but apparently the land developer has decided that it will be saved.
I a guessing that Millenials just don't like to play golf as much as older generations.
They took the old Candywood golf course not far from the YGN airport which was really nice and due to dropping customers closed it, fenced it in, put game in it......and charge people money to hunt them with high power rifles. The surrounding farm community hate the idea but can do nothing about it.
During the steel mill days there were thousands of well paid workers, tons of leagues all gone like many of the old courses.
They truly are more profitable to cut up into McMansion housing developments. But if you have decent freeway access they could make a good stadium site.
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What did Rodney Dangerfield say about golf courses and cemeteries, the two biggest wastes of real estate there is. (Caddyshack)
Golf courses make great housing developments all landscaped out -or- maybe a good starting point for a mega stadium complex with parking !
Well, that is just what is happening to a couple of them around here. Brookside Country Club in Norton, perhaps the oldest golf course in Summit Co. has been sold to real estate developers.
Valley View...gone. Brandywine CC....gone. Both Summit Co. Pine Valley near me here in Medina Co. almost suffered the same fate, but apparently the land developer has decided that it will be saved.
I a guessing that Millenials just don't like to play golf as much as older generations.
Well, that is just what is happening to a couple of them around here. Brookside Country Club in Norton, perhaps the oldest golf course in Summit Co. has been sold to real estate developers.
Valley View...gone. Brandywine CC....gone. Both Summit Co. Pine Valley near me here in Medina Co. almost suffered the same fate, but apparently the land developer has decided that it will be saved.
I a guessing that Millenials just don't like to play golf as much as older generations.
They like to play golf ...on a video game system
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Did look it up- the oldest NFL stadium that hasn't been totally reconfigured (that's Soldier Field) is Arrowhead (1972) and will probably be in use for at least another 20 years. It was built to last. BTW- since you're looking for a new stadium- Kansas City also did it right. It's outside of town, the Royals stadium is next door, with probably a square mile of parking surrounding it. The Tailgating there is legendary.
Your feeling on watching a football game indoors is akin to my thoughts on building stadiums in the sticks and surrounding them with parking lots.
Zero ambiance.
Your feeling on watching a football game indoors is akin to my thoughts on building stadiums in the sticks and surrounding them with parking lots.
Zero ambiance.
I just had another thought- and you probably won't like it. Can't say it's anything original- the idea was brought up before. If you want a dome, and can't figure out where to put it. Put it right where First Energy is right now. Tear down FE, and the Browns play at Ohio State until the new place is done. The Vikings did the same gambit playing at The University of Minnesota.
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Football is played in the fall and winter, but yes, I did overlook the advantage of having of a dome for summertime events.
Clearly you've never spent a September in Houston...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
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Your feeling on watching a football game indoors is akin to my thoughts on building stadiums in the sticks and surrounding them with parking lots.
Zero ambiance.
I just had another thought- and you probably won't like it. Can't say it's anything original- the idea was brought up before. If you want a dome, and can't figure out where to put it. Put it right where First Energy is right now. Tear down FE, and the Browns play at Ohio State until the new place is done. The Vikings did the same gambit playing at The University of Minnesota.
I just had another thought- and you probably won't like it. Can't say it's anything original- the idea was brought up before. If you want a dome, and can't figure out where to put it. Put it right where First Energy is right now. Tear down FE, and the Browns play at Ohio State until the new place is done. The Vikings did the same gambit playing at The University of Minnesota.
Or when the Bears played down south in Champaign at the U of Illinois while Soldier Field was redone.
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Right...unless they start tearing down a whole neighborhood (blighted?)...or commercial district.
I mean, in a city that at one time had over 900,000 people, and now has under 400,000, you have to think there's some room SOMEWHERE... ?
I mean, in a city that at one time had over 900,000 people, and now has under 400,000, you have to think there's some room SOMEWHERE... ?
Go ahead and look at the satellite images that Hoorta and I have, and then tell us where.. We are all ears and eyes.
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Well, that is just what is happening to a couple of them around here. Brookside Country Club in Norton, perhaps the oldest golf course in Summit Co. has been sold to real estate developers.
Valley View...gone. Brandywine CC....gone. Both Summit Co. Pine Valley near me here in Medina Co. almost suffered the same fate, but apparently the land developer has decided that it will be saved.
I a guessing that Millenials just don't like to play golf as much as older generations.
They like to play golf ...on a video game system
They like to play golf ...on a video game system
Is that really it....they just do video games? I kind of gave up golf about 20 years ago....but I could consider getting into it again....just for the camaraderie aspects. About the same for bowling. I put my money now into travel, and I take my walks in parks.
I also think that the whole idea of Tiger getting minorities heavily involved in golf also went up in smoke. Oh, there was some of it....not as much as expected.
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