Bold idea that would change the landscape of sports in Cleveland
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Parking is all over the place... That wouldn't be as big a deal as your other point - trying to fit a 65,000+ seat retractable domed football stadium into the footprint of what was a 43,000 seat baseball park. That could be interesting.
I'm sure if Modell had gone along- that site would have been configured completely differently. Of course by now, at 35+ years old- that stadium would be considered obsolete.
Did look it up- the oldest NFL stadium that hasn't been totally reconfigured (that's Soldier Field) is Arrowhead (1972) and will probably be in use for at least another 20 years. It was built to last. BTW- since you're looking for a new stadium- Kansas City also did it right. It's outside of town, the Royals stadium is next door, with probably a square mile of parking surrounding it. The Tailgating there is legendary.
Did look it up- the oldest NFL stadium that hasn't been totally reconfigured (that's Soldier Field) is Arrowhead (1972) and will probably be in use for at least another 20 years. It was built to last. BTW- since you're looking for a new stadium- Kansas City also did it right. It's outside of town, the Royals stadium is next door, with probably a square mile of parking surrounding it. The Tailgating there is legendary.
Your feeling on watching a football game indoors is akin to my thoughts on building stadiums in the sticks and surrounding them with parking lots.
Zero ambiance.
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I did a fairly close aerial inspection (google maps) of Cleveland, and honestly I do not see any footprint big enough to support a stadium and the parking you say is needed. There may be some old industrial sites in the Flats, but traffic in and out of there would be a nightmare. There may be some space south of I480.....but then you are getting into the suburbs. Or unless you take up valuable park land, which the parks would not give up....and besides, the terrain in those park areas would not be suitable...hill/streams/rivers. You could maybe find land in Brunswick or Medina County.
Or...hey, something like this: take over a golf course and build it there. Like, say, Sleepy Hollow, or ones near Fairview Park. Golf courses are going out of business like crazy around here. The oldest golf course in Summit County is going out.
What did Rodney Dangerfield say about golf courses and cemeteries, the two biggest wastes of real estate there is. (Caddyshack)
Golf courses make great housing developments all landscaped out -or- maybe a good starting point for a mega stadium complex with parking !
What did Rodney Dangerfield say about golf courses and cemeteries, the two biggest wastes of real estate there is. (Caddyshack)
Golf courses make great housing developments all landscaped out -or- maybe a good starting point for a mega stadium complex with parking !
Cemetaries have people dying to get in.
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What did Rodney Dangerfield say about golf courses and cemeteries, the two biggest wastes of real estate there is. (Caddyshack)
Golf courses make great housing developments all landscaped out -or- maybe a good starting point for a mega stadium complex with parking !
Well, that is just what is happening to a couple of them around here. Brookside Country Club in Norton, perhaps the oldest golf course in Summit Co. has been sold to real estate developers.
Valley View...gone. Brandywine CC....gone. Both Summit Co. Pine Valley near me here in Medina Co. almost suffered the same fate, but apparently the land developer has decided that it will be saved.
I a guessing that Millenials just don't like to play golf as much as older generations.
Well, that is just what is happening to a couple of them around here. Brookside Country Club in Norton, perhaps the oldest golf course in Summit Co. has been sold to real estate developers.
Valley View...gone. Brandywine CC....gone. Both Summit Co. Pine Valley near me here in Medina Co. almost suffered the same fate, but apparently the land developer has decided that it will be saved.
I a guessing that Millenials just don't like to play golf as much as older generations.
They took the old Candywood golf course not far from the YGN airport which was really nice and due to dropping customers closed it, fenced it in, put game in it......and charge people money to hunt them with high power rifles. The surrounding farm community hate the idea but can do nothing about it.
During the steel mill days there were thousands of well paid workers, tons of leagues all gone like many of the old courses.
They truly are more profitable to cut up into McMansion housing developments. But if you have decent freeway access they could make a good stadium site.
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What did Rodney Dangerfield say about golf courses and cemeteries, the two biggest wastes of real estate there is. (Caddyshack)
Golf courses make great housing developments all landscaped out -or- maybe a good starting point for a mega stadium complex with parking !
Well, that is just what is happening to a couple of them around here. Brookside Country Club in Norton, perhaps the oldest golf course in Summit Co. has been sold to real estate developers.
Valley View...gone. Brandywine CC....gone. Both Summit Co. Pine Valley near me here in Medina Co. almost suffered the same fate, but apparently the land developer has decided that it will be saved.
I a guessing that Millenials just don't like to play golf as much as older generations.
Well, that is just what is happening to a couple of them around here. Brookside Country Club in Norton, perhaps the oldest golf course in Summit Co. has been sold to real estate developers.
Valley View...gone. Brandywine CC....gone. Both Summit Co. Pine Valley near me here in Medina Co. almost suffered the same fate, but apparently the land developer has decided that it will be saved.
I a guessing that Millenials just don't like to play golf as much as older generations.
They like to play golf ...on a video game system
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Did look it up- the oldest NFL stadium that hasn't been totally reconfigured (that's Soldier Field) is Arrowhead (1972) and will probably be in use for at least another 20 years. It was built to last. BTW- since you're looking for a new stadium- Kansas City also did it right. It's outside of town, the Royals stadium is next door, with probably a square mile of parking surrounding it. The Tailgating there is legendary.
Your feeling on watching a football game indoors is akin to my thoughts on building stadiums in the sticks and surrounding them with parking lots.
Zero ambiance.
Your feeling on watching a football game indoors is akin to my thoughts on building stadiums in the sticks and surrounding them with parking lots.
Zero ambiance.
I just had another thought- and you probably won't like it. Can't say it's anything original- the idea was brought up before. If you want a dome, and can't figure out where to put it. Put it right where First Energy is right now. Tear down FE, and the Browns play at Ohio State until the new place is done. The Vikings did the same gambit playing at The University of Minnesota.
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Football is played in the fall and winter, but yes, I did overlook the advantage of having of a dome for summertime events.
Clearly you've never spent a September in Houston...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
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Your feeling on watching a football game indoors is akin to my thoughts on building stadiums in the sticks and surrounding them with parking lots.
Zero ambiance.
I just had another thought- and you probably won't like it. Can't say it's anything original- the idea was brought up before. If you want a dome, and can't figure out where to put it. Put it right where First Energy is right now. Tear down FE, and the Browns play at Ohio State until the new place is done. The Vikings did the same gambit playing at The University of Minnesota.
I just had another thought- and you probably won't like it. Can't say it's anything original- the idea was brought up before. If you want a dome, and can't figure out where to put it. Put it right where First Energy is right now. Tear down FE, and the Browns play at Ohio State until the new place is done. The Vikings did the same gambit playing at The University of Minnesota.
Or when the Bears played down south in Champaign at the U of Illinois while Soldier Field was redone.
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Right...unless they start tearing down a whole neighborhood (blighted?)...or commercial district.
I mean, in a city that at one time had over 900,000 people, and now has under 400,000, you have to think there's some room SOMEWHERE... ?
I mean, in a city that at one time had over 900,000 people, and now has under 400,000, you have to think there's some room SOMEWHERE... ?
Go ahead and look at the satellite images that Hoorta and I have, and then tell us where.. We are all ears and eyes.
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Well, that is just what is happening to a couple of them around here. Brookside Country Club in Norton, perhaps the oldest golf course in Summit Co. has been sold to real estate developers.
Valley View...gone. Brandywine CC....gone. Both Summit Co. Pine Valley near me here in Medina Co. almost suffered the same fate, but apparently the land developer has decided that it will be saved.
I a guessing that Millenials just don't like to play golf as much as older generations.
They like to play golf ...on a video game system
They like to play golf ...on a video game system
Is that really it....they just do video games? I kind of gave up golf about 20 years ago....but I could consider getting into it again....just for the camaraderie aspects. About the same for bowling. I put my money now into travel, and I take my walks in parks.
I also think that the whole idea of Tiger getting minorities heavily involved in golf also went up in smoke. Oh, there was some of it....not as much as expected.
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Your feeling on watching a football game indoors is akin to my thoughts on building stadiums in the sticks and surrounding them with parking lots.
Zero ambiance.
I just had another thought- and you probably won't like it. Can't say it's anything original- the idea was brought up before. If you want a dome, and can't figure out where to put it. Put it right where First Energy is right now. Tear down FE, and the Browns play at Ohio State until the new place is done. The Vikings did the same gambit playing at The University of Minnesota.
I just had another thought- and you probably won't like it. Can't say it's anything original- the idea was brought up before. If you want a dome, and can't figure out where to put it. Put it right where First Energy is right now. Tear down FE, and the Browns play at Ohio State until the new place is done. The Vikings did the same gambit playing at The University of Minnesota.
Except the Univ. of Minnesota Stadium was, literally a long walk from the Metrodome. About a mile, mile and a half at most. (my son worked right across the street from the Minn Stadium for a couple of years....and from his place you could look down the street there and see the Metrodome...or the now US Bank Stadium.
Ohio Stadium is 145 miles away from First Energy. So unless you want to alienate a lot of your fans, you shouldn't go that far away....unless, of course, you are trying to court that market, which Haslam probably would want to do as he now owns the soccer team that is there.
Akron Univerity' s Infocision Stadium is actually the 3rd largest college football stadium in Ohio....after only Ohio Stadium, and the old Nippert Stadium where Cincinnati U plays. And it is new...built in 2009, and holds 30,000.....which is more than the Chargers have been playing in the last few years; and it is larger, and closer than the HOF stadium (22K capacity). It could be the better alternative...if you felt that there had to be a tear down.
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I mean, in a city that at one time had over 900,000 people, and now has under 400,000, you have to think there's some room SOMEWHERE... ?
Go ahead and look at the satellite images that Hoorta and I have, and then tell us where.. We are all ears and eyes.
Go ahead and look at the satellite images that Hoorta and I have, and then tell us where.. We are all ears and eyes.
They somehow figured out places to build the Jacobs Field, Gund Arena and the Wolstein Center in the late 80s/early 90s, I'm sure they could figure out somewhere to do it again.
But I guess nothing new can be built within the city limits of Cleveland. It's all full. CLEVELAND IS CLOSED FOR FURTHER PROGRESS! ? Someone better tell Dee!
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Go ahead and look at the satellite images that Hoorta and I have, and then tell us where.. We are all ears and eyes.
They somehow figured out places to build the Jacobs Field, Gund Arena and the Wolstein Center in the late 80s/early 90s, I'm sure they could figure out somewhere to do it again.
But I guess nothing new can be built within the city limits of Cleveland. It's all full. CLEVELAND IS CLOSED FOR FURTHER PROGRESS! ? Someone better tell Dee!
They somehow figured out places to build the Jacobs Field, Gund Arena and the Wolstein Center in the late 80s/early 90s, I'm sure they could figure out somewhere to do it again.
But I guess nothing new can be built downtown. It's all full. CLEVELAND IS CLOSED FOR FURTHER PROGRESS! ?
No one is saying that.....We are saying for YOU to tell where YOU would propose to put it where it would fit. And FYI, what did they do to build the Jake/Gundarena/Wolstein? They had to tear down a lot of buildings that were there. Here is an aerial view of where these things are now. This is an older picture, maybe even in the 50s. But I recall the Central Market, which was the main facility there, plus there were a number of older warehouses and the like:
Compare now:
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Those are some seriously cool photos...
The first one is from the 1930s... if you look at Cleveland Stadium - it doesn't have lights yet. They added lights in 1939 I believe.
I'm kind of intrigued about the Wolstein Center area... the next time I'm in downtown I think I'll venture over and check it out. Seems like an area that if the Browns could buy the arena off of CSU (if CSU is serious about wanting to rid itself of it) that there might be some other older barely used buildings that could be flattened for a new Browns stadium.
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I just had another thought- and you probably won't like it. Can't say it's anything original- the idea was brought up before. If you want a dome, and can't figure out where to put it. Put it right where First Energy is right now. Tear down FE, and the Browns play at Ohio State until the new place is done. The Vikings did the same gambit playing at The University of Minnesota.
Except the Univ. of Minnesota Stadium was, literally a long walk from the Metrodome. About a mile, mile and a half at most. (my son worked right across the street from the Minn Stadium for a couple of years....and from his place you could look down the street there and see the Metrodome...or the now US Bank Stadium.
Ohio Stadium is 145 miles away from First Energy. So unless you want to alienate a lot of your fans, you shouldn't go that far away....unless, of course, you are trying to court that market, which Haslam probably would want to do as he now owns the soccer team that is there.
Akron Univerity' s Infocision Stadium is actually the 3rd largest college football stadium in Ohio....after only Ohio Stadium, and the old Nippert Stadium where Cincinnati U plays. And it is new...built in 2009, and holds 30,000.....which is more than the Chargers have been playing in the last few years; and it is larger, and closer than the HOF stadium (22K capacity). It could be the better alternative...if you felt that there had to be a tear down.
Except the Univ. of Minnesota Stadium was, literally a long walk from the Metrodome. About a mile, mile and a half at most. (my son worked right across the street from the Minn Stadium for a couple of years....and from his place you could look down the street there and see the Metrodome...or the now US Bank Stadium.
Ohio Stadium is 145 miles away from First Energy. So unless you want to alienate a lot of your fans, you shouldn't go that far away....unless, of course, you are trying to court that market, which Haslam probably would want to do as he now owns the soccer team that is there.
Akron Univerity' s Infocision Stadium is actually the 3rd largest college football stadium in Ohio....after only Ohio Stadium, and the old Nippert Stadium where Cincinnati U plays. And it is new...built in 2009, and holds 30,000.....which is more than the Chargers have been playing in the last few years; and it is larger, and closer than the HOF stadium (22K capacity). It could be the better alternative...if you felt that there had to be a tear down.
Nah- I doubt the Haslams would want to downgrade over 30,000 seats for a couple years. That 140 mile drive isn't hateful, I've made it more times than I can count. On one of my Sundays in Columbus (Browns were away) at the German Village Browns Backers Bar- there's a bunch of folks in C-bus who have season tickets to the Browns and make that drive to every home game.
The Browns drew 20,000+ fans just for an intrasquad scrimmage at OSU, and I'd bet they would draw at least equal to First Energy at Ohio Stadium. Of course I'd love it for a couple years- it would knock off a cumulative 4 hours of driving for me every home game.
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Except the Univ. of Minnesota Stadium was, literally a long walk from the Metrodome. About a mile, mile and a half at most. (my son worked right across the street from the Minn Stadium for a couple of years....and from his place you could look down the street there and see the Metrodome...or the now US Bank Stadium.
Ohio Stadium is 145 miles away from First Energy. So unless you want to alienate a lot of your fans, you shouldn't go that far away....unless, of course, you are trying to court that market, which Haslam probably would want to do as he now owns the soccer team that is there.
Akron Univerity' s Infocision Stadium is actually the 3rd largest college football stadium in Ohio....after only Ohio Stadium, and the old Nippert Stadium where Cincinnati U plays. And it is new...built in 2009, and holds 30,000.....which is more than the Chargers have been playing in the last few years; and it is larger, and closer than the HOF stadium (22K capacity). It could be the better alternative...if you felt that there had to be a tear down.
Nah- I doubt the Haslams would want to downgrade over 30,000 seats for a couple years. That 140 mile drive isn't hateful, I've made it more times than I can count. On one of my Sundays in Columbus (Browns were away) at the German Village Browns Backers Bar- there's a bunch of folks in C-bus who have season tickets to the Browns and make that drive to every home game.
The Browns drew 20,000+ fans just for an intrasquad scrimmage at OSU, and I'd bet they would draw at least equal to First Energy at Ohio Stadium. Of course I'd love it for a couple years- it would knock off a cumulative 4 hours of driving for me every home game.
Nah- I doubt the Haslams would want to downgrade over 30,000 seats for a couple years. That 140 mile drive isn't hateful, I've made it more times than I can count. On one of my Sundays in Columbus (Browns were away) at the German Village Browns Backers Bar- there's a bunch of folks in C-bus who have season tickets to the Browns and make that drive to every home game.
The Browns drew 20,000+ fans just for an intrasquad scrimmage at OSU, and I'd bet they would draw at least equal to First Energy at Ohio Stadium. Of course I'd love it for a couple years- it would knock off a cumulative 4 hours of driving for me every home game.
Well, the Chargers did it, but they went to a town which really had zero interest in them as a football team.
Nevertheless. Here is an article that discusses much of what we have been talking about here, and it seems to get at a lot of the issues involved, including the land/airport issue, financing issues, etc. A lot of NFL stadiums now have their own parking that the teams own, control and profit from. They are also doing a lot of accompanying development....hotels, etc. That is the deal in Dallas and in New England. Those teams have like 300 acres they are "exploiting" for their uses (football and beyond). Right now, Cleveland stadium sits on like 35 acres and is bounded by the lake, the railroad, the port......so, yes, it is a constricted site for what the so called NFL Entrepreneurs would want.
https://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/the-browns-are-talking-about-a-new-stadium/Content?oid=18496853
This also explains the very very difficult situation with the airport: the FAA controls what happens to it, not the city. It says it would take 20 years for that airport to be closed....and even then, it could not be give over to private development.
So, go find a 300 acre site in or near downtown Cleveland. You can't.
In checking with some
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So, here you go: 331 acres for sale in Trumbull Co. Only 50 miles from downtown Cleveland (not much further than the 49ers are from SFO)
https://www.landsofamerica.com/property/331-acres-in-Trumbull-County-Ohio/7142666/
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The more I think about it the more I believe that the NFL owners want those stadiums to be located in places where they can have like 300 acres so they can have their stadium their development in their parking. They also don’t really want public transportation to the stadiums because that would force everyone to drive there and pay whatever the rate is they would want to Charge for parking. 50 bucks 100 bucks whatever. Plus the hotels and shopping etc. etc. they don’t just want to make money off the games and concessions. They want to make money on all this other stuff.
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