Browns to let Schobert walk
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I busted your chops because I enjoy the way you always keep a sense of humor about you. I agree with some of what you said. However, Schobert led the NFL in tackles on a scheme that only used 2 LBers; so are we holding both DTs just as accountable? Dorsey paid 1 them (Richardson) enough cake where the big feller said "I want me some Cleveland." We improved somewhat at stopping the run inside in 2019 - at least before we lost MG the last 6 weeks. When we lost that clamp, we asked a lot of just 2 LBers IMO.
This isn't aimed at you - I'm just using this reply to get some of this out. The goal of a FO should be to reduce the openings to fill - not increase them. Dorsey gave us Kong Shlong right up the dumpster without the vaseline. Back to back years we lost 2 LTs to jail/prison. Kareem Hunt is a Josh Gordon in training; but he's very fortunate the cops that keep finding him with the wrong company are huge Cleveland fans. We also wasted a draft pick on Gator Done at WR. His hand picked choice of Safety Dumbass Randall showed up to practice with bruises and scratches on his face (after a night out during the week) before he got scratched for a start and placed concussion protocol. We gave up a 17th pick overall for another WR that spent the 2nd half of last season asking opponents to get him out of Cleveland. Some people only want to blame analytics; while it would have been nice to have some type of analysis on what are the types that respond to adversity and who are the types you can't trust. Dorsey inherited a TON of picks and a ton of money and it seemed like he only wanted to trade away picks and players to bring in people from other teams.
Not to mention, whoever the freak saw film of Ticky Tacky's tackling with his fingers and arms only thinking he's gotta have. There wasn't 1 keeper Dorsey and GB sidekicks found in the draft on the OL, inclusive of the very first pick of round 2. And what the hail was up with Cleveland bringing in so many Miami Hurricanes via trade trade and draft during the Dorsey & Sidekicks tenure? Am I missing something or are they off by a couple decades with the time to go all in in Miami Hurricanes. Oppps, I didn't blame analytics - did I? Highsmith went to the U so nobody questioned all the knuckleheads we brought in from there that haven't been worth ball sweat.
The 1 thing he got right was Baker Mayfield, who has a bigger belly than Santa Claus today. There are some fannies that need to be lit and there are some that needed to be out of here. The 1 example of if you bust your tail and keep your head on straight on and off the field (Schobert) seems like the 1 guy even are fans are saying "don't let the door hit you in the asss on the way out." I couldn't get where they are coming from if I tried...
There just aren't many ILBs good enough to command top $ like $15 million. I mean, Scho is good but not out there making loads of difference-maker or splash plays. I think that's why fans are like "Whatever, get the F out." It's not like he's a Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, Ryan Shazier, Jr Seau, Bobby Wagner or even Devin Bush. If they allow the ILB and S units to become depleted, it could spell trouble. Some feel Mack is not consistent enough.
There just aren't many ILBs good enough to command top $ like $15 million. I mean, Scho is good but not out there making loads of difference-maker or splash plays. I think that's why fans are like "Whatever, get the F out." It's not like he's a Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, Ryan Shazier, Jr Seau, Bobby Wagner or even Devin Bush. If they allow the ILB and S units to become depleted, it could spell trouble. Some feel Mack is not consistent enough.
I would not put Shazier and Bush in that company....and not because they are Steelers, but because they did not (Shazier) and have not (Bush) had a sufficiently long career to have proven to be in that company. Lewis/Urlacher/Seau are in the HOF, Wagner could very well be. Bush...someday? Maybe. Way too soon.
Though, I will say this: for whatever reason, the Browns have never had one of THOSE MLB. The best the Browns have had likely are in this group:
Mike Johnson
Vince Costello
Dick Ambrose
No HOF guys, not even going back to 40s/50s dynasty days.
We had Pepper Johnson and Mike Lucci...but only for cups of coffee.
It would be nice to have one.
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I don't quite understand why John Dorsey is getting shit for Schobert walking.
The current front office is pretty much the guys who drafted Schobert. If they wanted to keep him, DePodesta and Berry could - or still can - have called him up and said: "We are the people who drafted you, we believed in you then, we believe in you now, and here's a contract offer in line with the going rate for starting MLBs. The previous front office might have been prepared to let you walk, but we are not".
But they haven't.
I don't quite understand why John Dorsey is getting shit for Schobert walking.
The current front office is pretty much the guys who drafted Schobert. If they wanted to keep him, DePodesta and Berry could - or still can - have called him up and said: "We are the people who drafted you, we believed in you then, we believe in you now, and here's a contract offer in line with the going rate for starting MLBs. The previous front office might have been prepared to let you walk, but we are not".
But they haven't.
Because it fits the agenda of some people to pretend that John Dorsey was the problem and not that f*cking idiot Jimmy Haslam.
WSS
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There just aren't many ILBs good enough to command top $ like $15 million. I mean, Scho is good but not out there making loads of difference-maker or splash plays. I think that's why fans are like "Whatever, get the F out." It's not like he's a Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, Ryan Shazier, Jr Seau, Bobby Wagner or even Devin Bush. If they allow the ILB and S units to become depleted, it could spell trouble. Some feel Mack is not consistent enough.
I would not put Shazier and Bush in that company....and not because they are Steelers, but because they did not (Shazier) and have not (Bush) had a sufficiently long career to have proven to be in that company. Lewis/Urlacher/Seau are in the HOF, Wagner could very well be. Bush...someday? Maybe. Way too soon.
Though, I will say this: for whatever reason, the Browns have never had one of THOSE MLB. The best the Browns have had likely are in this group:
Mike Johnson
Vince Costello
Dick Ambrose
No HOF guys, not even going back to 40s/50s dynasty days.
We had Pepper Johnson and Mike Lucci...but only for cups of coffee.
It would be nice to have one.
I would not put Shazier and Bush in that company....and not because they are Steelers, but because they did not (Shazier) and have not (Bush) had a sufficiently long career to have proven to be in that company. Lewis/Urlacher/Seau are in the HOF, Wagner could very well be. Bush...someday? Maybe. Way too soon.
Though, I will say this: for whatever reason, the Browns have never had one of THOSE MLB. The best the Browns have had likely are in this group:
Mike Johnson
Vince Costello
Dick Ambrose
No HOF guys, not even going back to 40s/50s dynasty days.
We had Pepper Johnson and Mike Lucci...but only for cups of coffee.
It would be nice to have one.
You are forgetting Tom Cousineau, the original one million $ man. It feels like he was one of the original Browns busts. Sure, since they have used a 1st round picks on players like Corey Coleman, Justin Gilbert, Mingo, Trent Richardson, Weedon, Phil Taylor, Winslow Jr., Willie Greene, Warren, Courtney Brown, Couch, Craig Powell, Tommy Vardell and the like, but Tom Cousineau seemed like the beginning of horrid 1st round picks (although there was a stretch in the late 80's-early 90's that wasn't bad).
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I don't quite understand why John Dorsey is getting shit for Schobert walking.
The current front office is pretty much the guys who drafted Schobert. If they wanted to keep him, DePodesta and Berry could - or still can - have called him up and said: "We are the people who drafted you, we believed in you then, we believe in you now, and here's a contract offer in line with the going rate for starting MLBs. The previous front office might have been prepared to let you walk, but we are not".
But they haven't.
I don't quite understand why John Dorsey is getting shit for Schobert walking.
Because he is gone, so blame him for everything and believe it's all better now.
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I’ll be bummed to see Schobert go. Good guy, good worker. Can’t fault him for maximizing funds at this juncture in his life. He’s earned it. Good luck Joe.
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I would not put Shazier and Bush in that company....and not because they are Steelers, but because they did not (Shazier) and have not (Bush) had a sufficiently long career to have proven to be in that company. Lewis/Urlacher/Seau are in the HOF, Wagner could very well be. Bush...someday? Maybe. Way too soon.
Though, I will say this: for whatever reason, the Browns have never had one of THOSE MLB. The best the Browns have had likely are in this group:
Mike Johnson
Vince Costello
Dick Ambrose
No HOF guys, not even going back to 40s/50s dynasty days.
We had Pepper Johnson and Mike Lucci...but only for cups of coffee.
It would be nice to have one.
You are forgetting Tom Cousineau, the original one million $ man. It feels like he was one of the original Browns busts. Sure, since they have used a 1st round picks on players like Corey Coleman, Justin Gilbert, Mingo, Trent Richardson, Weedon, Phil Taylor, Winslow Jr., Willie Greene, Warren, Courtney Brown, Couch, Craig Powell, Tommy Vardell and the like, but Tom Cousineau seemed like the beginning of horrid 1st round picks (although there was a stretch in the late 80's-early 90's that wasn't bad).
You are forgetting Tom Cousineau, the original one million $ man. It feels like he was one of the original Browns busts. Sure, since they have used a 1st round picks on players like Corey Coleman, Justin Gilbert, Mingo, Trent Richardson, Weedon, Phil Taylor, Winslow Jr., Willie Greene, Warren, Courtney Brown, Couch, Craig Powell, Tommy Vardell and the like, but Tom Cousineau seemed like the beginning of horrid 1st round picks (although there was a stretch in the late 80's-early 90's that wasn't bad).
I said that the ones I listed are the best MLBs we have had. I didn't forget Cousineau in not listing him.
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You are forgetting Tom Cousineau, the original one million $ man. It feels like he was one of the original Browns busts. Sure, since they have used a 1st round picks on players like Corey Coleman, Justin Gilbert, Mingo, Trent Richardson, Weedon, Phil Taylor, Winslow Jr., Willie Greene, Warren, Courtney Brown, Couch, Craig Powell, Tommy Vardell and the like, but Tom Cousineau seemed like the beginning of horrid 1st round picks (although there was a stretch in the late 80's-early 90's that wasn't bad).
I said that the ones I listed are the best MLBs we have had. I didn't forget Cousineau in not listing him.
I said that the ones I listed are the best MLBs we have had. I didn't forget Cousineau in not listing him.
He was pretty bad, IIRC. Pro football reference didn't list tackles, but he had like 4.5 sacks in almost 4 full years.
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You are forgetting Tom Cousineau, the original one million $ man. It feels like he was one of the original Browns busts. Sure, since they have used a 1st round picks on players like Corey Coleman, Justin Gilbert, Mingo, Trent Richardson, Weedon, Phil Taylor, Winslow Jr., Willie Greene, Warren, Courtney Brown, Couch, Craig Powell, Tommy Vardell and the like, but Tom Cousineau seemed like the beginning of horrid 1st round picks (although there was a stretch in the late 80's-early 90's that wasn't bad).
I said that the ones I listed are the best MLBs we have had. I didn't forget Cousineau in not listing him.
I said that the ones I listed are the best MLBs we have had. I didn't forget Cousineau in not listing him.
I was kidding, Tom was a bust. Made big buzz when he came to da Land, but never did crap. All Hype. And I never mean to imply Shazier or Bush were in the class of the other HOF ILBs mentioned. I just meant they had more pop than Scho.
Because it fits the agenda of some people to pretend that John Dorsey was the problem and not that f*cking idiot Jimmy Haslam.
WSS
I think Dosey did pretty well, has his flaws. He seems to care about character a tad too little. But I'd hire him, as long as someone above can tap down on the thug ratio. Dorsey was a small problem, Mr. Jimmy is another story.
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Article picked one rostered player, Taki, one draft prospect, Bachie (?), and one really good choice...
Cleveland Browns: 3 Replacement candidates for Joe Schobert
No. 3: Nick Kwiatkoski, Free Agent
Free-agent Nick Kwiatkoski from the Chicago Bears would be an intriguing option for the Browns. Kwiatkoski filled in at inside linebacker for Danny Trevathan last season and shined in the starting role. He finished the season with 76 tackles and three sacks while playing really well against the run.
The question would be is what will Kwiatkoski command in the open market? The 26 year-old is entering the prime of his NFL career however he only has started the final seven games from a season ago.
He could be a cheaper version of Schobert, who is reportedly asking for north of $10 million per season. If the Browns find his price to be more reasonable, Kwiatkosi makes a ton of sense for Cleveland when free agency opens in a couple of weeks.
https://dawgpounddaily.com/2020/03/01/cleveland-browns-3-replacement-candidates-joe-schobert/
I really liked Nick coming out of WVU. He wouldn't equal Joe in pass D, but would more than make up for it vs the run. Kid can thump.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Whoever the replacement might be I just don't want to spend the same money on a new guy as it would have cost us to keep Joe. Lack of continuity is going to kill us again.
WSS
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There just aren't many ILBs good enough to command top $ like $15 million. I mean, Scho is good but not out there making loads of difference-maker or splash plays. I think that's why fans are like "Whatever, get the F out." It's not like he's a Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, Ryan Shazier, Jr Seau, Bobby Wagner or even Devin Bush. If they allow the ILB and S units to become depleted, it could spell trouble. Some feel Mack is not consistent enough.
I would not put Shazier and Bush in that company....and not because they are Steelers, but because they did not (Shazier) and have not (Bush) had a sufficiently long career to have proven to be in that company. Lewis/Urlacher/Seau are in the HOF, Wagner could very well be. Bush...someday? Maybe. Way too soon.
Though, I will say this: for whatever reason, the Browns have never had one of THOSE MLB. The best the Browns have had likely are in this group:
Mike Johnson
Vince Costello
Dick Ambrose
No HOF guys, not even going back to 40s/50s dynasty days.
We had Pepper Johnson and Mike Lucci...but only for cups of coffee.
It would be nice to have one.
I would not put Shazier and Bush in that company....and not because they are Steelers, but because they did not (Shazier) and have not (Bush) had a sufficiently long career to have proven to be in that company. Lewis/Urlacher/Seau are in the HOF, Wagner could very well be. Bush...someday? Maybe. Way too soon.
Though, I will say this: for whatever reason, the Browns have never had one of THOSE MLB. The best the Browns have had likely are in this group:
Mike Johnson
Vince Costello
Dick Ambrose
No HOF guys, not even going back to 40s/50s dynasty days.
We had Pepper Johnson and Mike Lucci...but only for cups of coffee.
It would be nice to have one.
Let's get back to the current subject within the current era.
Ice Cube is telling me we're too poor for today's market to keep a LBer capable of leading the NFL in tackles 1 year and making a Pro Bowl another. And why? Because he doesn't have Haloti Ngata in front of him and Ed Reed/Rod Woodson behind him to deserve what today's market will pay him to play for an organization that did NOT develop him . We're too poor but the Rats had a Superbowl lineup they never had any cap issues with.
Not only that, all that time we were allegedly tanking and acquiring more picks - we suddenly only have 7 draft picks, crying poor and have more openings to fill than last year. Make sense? It shouldn't...
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
I don't quite understand why John Dorsey is getting shit for Schobert walking.
Because he is gone, so blame him for everything and believe it's all better now.
Because he is gone, so blame him for everything and believe it's all better now.
Who in here is announcing things are better now? We have way more openings today than we had last year at this time. Are you following this team or are you still waiting for your idol Colin Cowherd to tell you what to think?
I think it's adorable you took inventory of popular opinion about Schobert and catered to it or was that Cowherd reminding you he's not Ray Lewis? As for your Dorsey comment, I seem to remember 1 poster in here that was nervous and questioning a lot of things the leadership was doing last year. He even borrowed your screen name every time he did it.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Article picked one rostered player, Taki, one draft prospect, Bachie (?), and one really good choice...
Cleveland Browns: 3 Replacement candidates for Joe Schobert
No. 3: Nick Kwiatkoski, Free Agent
Free-agent Nick Kwiatkoski from the Chicago Bears would be an intriguing option for the Browns. Kwiatkoski filled in at inside linebacker for Danny Trevathan last season and shined in the starting role. He finished the season with 76 tackles and three sacks while playing really well against the run.
The question would be is what will Kwiatkoski command in the open market? The 26 year-old is entering the prime of his NFL career however he only has started the final seven games from a season ago.
He could be a cheaper version of Schobert, who is reportedly asking for north of $10 million per season. If the Browns find his price to be more reasonable, Kwiatkosi makes a ton of sense for Cleveland when free agency opens in a couple of weeks.
https://dawgpounddaily.com/2020/03/01/cleveland-browns-3-replacement-candidates-joe-schobert/
I really liked Nick coming out of WVU. He wouldn't equal Joe in pass D, but would more than make up for it vs the run. Kid can thump.
I really liked Nick coming out of WVU. He wouldn't equal Joe in pass D, but would more than make up for it vs the run. Kid can thump.
most bears boards say Nick K-whack-ski ain't going anywhere.. the older Danny Trevathan will be the LB hitting the highway.. looks like Danny T, did not play with Woods at Denver either..
I can't see Queen or Kenneth Murray getting to #41 so I checked out your Mocked guy finalist Willie Gay jr... He had a clean combine & his few tapes looks good against the run...Till i got to the RED Flags... A Did you know? Willie 'ain't' Gay jr.--- whackmoled his starting QB in the Jaw breaking his Orbital Bone... ??Yikes!! ?
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Having watching Taki take snaps in camp last year, I can promise anyone suggesting he was pushing Schob for his spot is either completely clueless if not outright being dishonest.
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The Browns may not be the only team to allow a seemingly important part of their defense let walk.
The high speculation is that Bud Dupree will not be returning to Pittsburgh:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/02/19/report-bud-dupree-leaving-caa-ahead-of-free-agency/
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Joe's a team leader with great work ethic, and a great guy.
Yeah, Dorsey fumbled it, but cmon bro, get it done and keep him. He's worth it.
We can't keep making pro bowl players and then give them away to other teams.
Most importantly, Joe LOVES Cleveland and wants to be here.
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Back to the LB topic at hand..
If they're letting Schotime walk, they should clean contracts and cut Arm-Tacklesey as well.. Taki and Wilson aren't as good as where they were drafted, but it's true that we need the cap to sign free agents at more than one other position [OT, S]. To be clear: The question is if Scho and Kirk can OUTperform guys with similar contracts on other teams, because neither one of them is ever going to be mistaken for greatness. If they don't think the value-for-performance is there, I don't blame FO for making that decision.. one bit. Yes, our performance will suffer -- but I'd bet it would suffer with them here as well.. so let's go with the cheap option.
If Scho was willing to give us a home-team discount to 7, I'd go for it -- but I didn't see them even reach out.
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The Browns may not be the only team to allow a seemingly important part of their defense let walk.
The high speculation is that Bud Dupree will not be returning to Pittsburgh:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/02/19/report-bud-dupree-leaving-caa-ahead-of-free-agency/
The Browns may not be the only team to allow a seemingly important part of their defense let walk.
The high speculation is that Bud Dupree will not be returning to Pittsburgh:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/02/19/report-bud-dupree-leaving-caa-ahead-of-free-agency/
Mainly because the Steelers are in cap hell. Franchise tag? With the least cap room of any team? I don't see how.
But he's going to want a ton of money as a UFA.
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The Browns may not be the only team to allow a seemingly important part of their defense let walk.
The high speculation is that Bud Dupree will not be returning to Pittsburgh:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/02/19/report-bud-dupree-leaving-caa-ahead-of-free-agency/
Mainly because the Steelers are in cap hell. Franchise tag? With the least cap room of any team? I don't see how.
But he's going to want a ton of money as a UFA.
Mainly because the Steelers are in cap hell. Franchise tag? With the least cap room of any team? I don't see how.
But he's going to want a ton of money as a UFA.
I think I may have heard that they are thinking of putting the franchise tag on him.
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I think I may have heard that they are thinking of putting the franchise tag on him.
Already said it Gipper, you're not paying attention. Take a look at the link- waaayyyy down there at the bottom, you have the Pittsburgh Steelers with negative cap room. They're going to have to get real creative, or dump a lot of salary to get under the cap. Franchise tag for a linebacker was $15 million last year. They can think about franchising him- now who they going to cut to do so?
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