Left Tackle - Flugel Faves and Hopefuls
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So may I assume you are looking for him as a later round RT?
He was a solid 3rd a couple weeks ago, but has been climbing.
If I miss Thomas/Jones in the 1st, then I take him with our 2nd-rounder and don't look back.
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Would you rather have him than the guys they have listed at the top: Wirfs/Thomas/Becton//Wills etc?
I value:
Thomas, Jones at #10 > Peart at #41 > Wills at #10 >>> Wirfs at #10 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Becton at #10
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Would you rather have him than the guys they have listed at the top: Wirfs/Thomas/Becton//Wills etc?
I value:
Thomas, Jones at #10 > Peart at #41 > Wills at #10 >>> Wirfs at #10 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Becton at #10
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Possibly... and if it comes to pass I'll will have never been wishing I am wrong so much...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Folks... please look at Peart... RT.. #65...
Peart has some terrific qualities, some scouts wonder about his toughness. Some say he seems very soft. I looked at him before, and the Browns' LT Robinson came to mind. Definitely has the physical skills. But my goofy opinion - I didn't think he was a football player. But if you guessed right and he will be - he would be a steal later on in the draft.
I like Ben Bartch better. I like Ezra Cleveland a lot more.
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https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/news/scouting-combine-offensive-tackles-1
Ben Bartch, Saint John’s (6-5, 308): Bartch went from Division III All-American to the Senior Bowl. “It was really important,” he said of his performance at the prestigious all-star game Mobile, Ala. “One of the main red flags most scouts have on a player like me is the level of competition. They need to see how you are going to do when you go up against the biggest and fastest guys out there. And that's to be expected. You just have to rise to the occasion when you get the chance.”
Bartch played tight end during his first two years at the school. With limited playing time, he moved to left tackle and set the stage for his path to the NFL. To do it, he had to pack on the pounds. That meant seven meals per day and a smooth creation that include eggs, cottage cheese, peanut butter, bananas and milk. Over the course of weight training and conditioning, he’d eat seven meals.
Just eight Saint John’s players have been drafted, and none since offensive lineman Kurt Wachtler in the 15th round of 1974. The last Johnnies player to appear in a regular-season NFL game was running back Rick Bell, who played for the Vikings in 1983. He studied abroad in South Africa during Spring 2019
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Peart is my contingency plan if Andrew Thomas is gone.
And no, I don't mean by kicking over the rookie to the left side.
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Folks... please look at Peart... RT.. #65...
Peart has some terrific qualities, some scouts wonder about his toughness. Some say he seems very soft. I looked at him before, and the Browns' LT Robinson came to mind. Definitely has the physical skills. But my goofy opinion - I didn't think he was a football player. But if you guessed right and he will be - he would be a steal later on in the draft.
I like Ben Bartch better. I like Ezra Cleveland a lot more.
***************************************
https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/news/scouting-combine-offensive-tackles-1
Ben Bartch, Saint John’s (6-5, 308): Bartch went from Division III All-American to the Senior Bowl. “It was really important,” he said of his performance at the prestigious all-star game Mobile, Ala. “One of the main red flags most scouts have on a player like me is the level of competition. They need to see how you are going to do when you go up against the biggest and fastest guys out there. And that's to be expected. You just have to rise to the occasion when you get the chance.”
Bartch played tight end during his first two years at the school. With limited playing time, he moved to left tackle and set the stage for his path to the NFL. To do it, he had to pack on the pounds. That meant seven meals per day and a smooth creation that include eggs, cottage cheese, peanut butter, bananas and milk. Over the course of weight training and conditioning, he’d eat seven meals.
Just eight Saint John’s players have been drafted, and none since offensive lineman Kurt Wachtler in the 15th round of 1974. The last Johnnies player to appear in a regular-season NFL game was running back Rick Bell, who played for the Vikings in 1983. He studied abroad in South Africa during Spring 2019
I like Ben Bartch better. I like Ezra Cleveland a lot more.
I love Bartch's story and like his promise, but if I draft an OT outside Round 1 I'm still looking for plug n play... not someday maybe...
Obviously we completely part ways on Ezra...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
My order of upper faves has changed and it probably won't be the last time.
1. Andrew Thomas - This won't change and I'm bummed he won't last until #10 overall. Here's a video of him broken down by Voch Lombardi who points out a correctable bad pass pro habit with his hands he thinks is being taught at UGA (when he shows the RT doing it too).
2. Jedrick Wills Jr - I had been changing frequently between Wills and Wirfs; but now Josh Jones is the guy that will tempt preference at 2.
3. Josh Jones - I always say when you visit an area that intrigues you - take a Tour Guide so you don't miss the best details. This was no different. I took Tour's Guide and found a lot to like from the 4 year starter at Left Tackle.
4. Tristan Wirfs - Is he like the band who thinks they're Better than Ezra? If not, we could be going BPA at #10 if the 1st 3 fellers and/or Becton have already been selected. For being the only OL to start as a freshman for our former OL coach Kirk Ferentz - I thought he'd offer us more hope to the Joe Thomas sized hole at LT in Cleveland. Unfortunately, he looks like a better candidate to play the RT position he played most often in college. Not saying LT is impossible with the type of strength and athleticism he displayed in Indy - it's just that all the stars and planets would have to align themselves for it to happen.
Here's a video comparing Wills and Wirfs.
5. Mekhi Becton - I might have really under-estimated this guy. Gee, there's a surprise. He's raw but he's put some goodies on film for the right NFL OL Coach to mold. I'm going to show a couple sets of highlights - first one is narrated by Voch Lombardi. The second one is just a collage of opponents that should have been narrated by Bill Withers singing Lean on Me. What I don't know from watching just 2 videos is if he's a good fit for a zbs or if he's ready for blind side pass pro in the NFL. I could see him playing RT for somebody like Orlando Brown ended up doing in Baltimore (already has 1 Pro Bowl appearance) in spite of his bench presses like a girl scout episode.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
OGs in our division like Yanda or DeCastro. I wouldn't just reach for Jones here if there's no trade-back option - I'd pull a muscle to do it. Having said that, I'm starting to think he might be less of a reach than Kinlaw anyway. We already have 2 FA DTs we invested money in with too many bare cupboards to blow off for a boom or bust DT. Lindy's Draft Guide lists Kinlaw as a prototypical pass rusher.
Well.... Yanda retired... so there's that...
I hear ya. You know I don't think Jones is a reach at 10... I'd just rather land him lower and collect the added draft capital.
Kinlaw? I dream of landing a Pass pressuring DT almost as much as I do a thumping Mike, but I'd also like a little run stop in the same package and Javon hasn't shown he's that on a consistent basis.
Well.... Yanda retired... so there's that...
I hear ya. You know I don't think Jones is a reach at 10... I'd just rather land him lower and collect the added draft capital.
Kinlaw? I dream of landing a Pass pressuring DT almost as much as I do a thumping Mike, but I'd also like a little run stop in the same package and Javon hasn't shown he's that on a consistent basis.
I walked right into that one with Yanda.
I've revised my faves and moved JJ up to #3 and Wills up to #2. Shoved Wirfs down to #4 and swam against the current to add Becton at #5. I added some highlights in my previous post. All that being the case, I'm thinking only Thomas, Wills and Jones are worthy of the 10th pick overall - giving us BPA or tradeback options...
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Well.... Yanda retired... so there's that...
I hear ya. You know I don't think Jones is a reach at 10... I'd just rather land him lower and collect the added draft capital.
Kinlaw? I dream of landing a Pass pressuring DT almost as much as I do a thumping Mike, but I'd also like a little run stop in the same package and Javon hasn't shown he's that on a consistent basis.
I walked right into that one with Yanda.
I've revised my faves and moved JJ up to #3 and Wills up to #2. Shoved Wirfs down to #4 and swam against the current to add Becton at #5. I added some highlights in my previous post. All that being the case, I'm thinking only Thomas, Wills and Jones are worthy of the 10th pick overall - giving us BPA or tradeback options...
I walked right into that one with Yanda.
I've revised my faves and moved JJ up to #3 and Wills up to #2. Shoved Wirfs down to #4 and swam against the current to add Becton at #5. I added some highlights in my previous post. All that being the case, I'm thinking only Thomas, Wills and Jones are worthy of the 10th pick overall - giving us BPA or tradeback options...
I dont see it with Wills. He is good in a phone booth but I dont like how he drops back and that seems like a recipe for disaster at LT. I want Thomas but dont think hell be there. I would understand Becton because we while he is raw he has the tools and we are going to run the ball a ton. Then I would trade back for Jones or maybe Cleveland.
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Well.... Yanda retired... so there's that...
I hear ya. You know I don't think Jones is a reach at 10... I'd just rather land him lower and collect the added draft capital.
Kinlaw? I dream of landing a Pass pressuring DT almost as much as I do a thumping Mike, but I'd also like a little run stop in the same package and Javon hasn't shown he's that on a consistent basis.
I walked right into that one with Yanda.
I've revised my faves and moved JJ up to #3 and Wills up to #2. Shoved Wirfs down to #4 and swam against the current to add Becton at #5. I added some highlights in my previous post. All that being the case, I'm thinking only Thomas, Wills and Jones are worthy of the 10th pick overall - giving us BPA or tradeback options...
I walked right into that one with Yanda.
I've revised my faves and moved JJ up to #3 and Wills up to #2. Shoved Wirfs down to #4 and swam against the current to add Byouecton at #5. I added some highlights in my previous post. All that being the case, I'm thinking only Thomas, Wills and Jones are worthy of the 10th pick overall - giving us BPA or tradeback options...
Pffft... and I posted about a 17-game 2020 season yesterday... it happens.
Now need you to drop Becton altogether and add Peart...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
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Wirfs alert from the first of the two articles htown posted...
"... often, a guy who can’t handle left tackle can play right tackle,” said Savage. “At the very least, he usually can play guard. In other words, you do get something good from the pick — even if it’s not at left tackle.”
For example, Robert Gallery was the No. 2 pick in the 2004 draft. He was supposed to be a “can’t miss tackle” coming out of Iowa.
He struggled at both left and right tackle in the NFL, but eventually had a decent career as a starting left guard for five seasons.
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And from the other article where Joe T. says...
“I would say, guys that are ready from day one, to be dominant in the run game, Wirfs would be the first guy,” Thomas said. “But if you’re going to ask a guy to drop back and pass block, which still happens and you still want that skill, then a guy like Mekhi Becton or Jedrick Wills would possibly, maybe, suit that bill just slightly more. But really I think the Browns are in such a great position because they need a left tackle. There’s four, maybe five of them who all could do a great job.”
Slight nod to Jones(?) methinks... but I'm actually glad he mentions neither him nor Thomas.
I wonder if he is consulting for our FO?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
And from the other article where Joe T. says...
“I would say, guys that are ready from day one, to be dominant in the run game, Wirfs would be the first guy,” Thomas said. “But if you’re going to ask a guy to drop back and pass block, which still happens and you still want that skill, then a guy like Mekhi Becton or Jedrick Wills would possibly, maybe, suit that bill just slightly more. But really I think the Browns are in such a great position because they need a left tackle. There’s four, maybe five of them who all could do a great job.”
Slight nod to Jones(?) methinks... but I'm actually glad he mentions neither him nor Thomas.
I wonder if he is consulting for our FO?
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I walked right into that one with Yanda.
I've revised my faves and moved JJ up to #3 and Wills up to #2. Shoved Wirfs down to #4 and swam against the current to add Byouecton at #5. I added some highlights in my previous post. All that being the case, I'm thinking only Thomas, Wills and Jones are worthy of the 10th pick overall - giving us BPA or tradeback options...
Pffft... and I posted about a 17-game 2020 season yesterday... it happens.
Now need you to drop Becton altogether and add Peart...
Pffft... and I posted about a 17-game 2020 season yesterday... it happens.
Now need you to drop Becton altogether and add Peart...
Thanks! Not to worry, guys that are better fits at RT, OG or a power scheme in lieu of a zbs (ie: Wirfs and Becton) won't keep spots #4 and 5 for much longer. With Becton, I just wanted to give him more respect than my first impression of him looking like he'd never get out of the uncomfortable stance he was pictured in. Remember that song 16 Candles? It looked like he had all 16 lit and super-glued to the end of his dumpster. I can see him getting Orlando Brown'd to RT, which can work out well for a team that doesn't need a LT this year. Brown played in a Pro Bowl at RT in just his second season. Becton moves better than Brown and he's stronger.
Right now, I see Thomas, Wills and Jones as worthy of #10 overall. I appreciate your Peart recommendation. There's a few guys I want to watch some film on before I finalize my last 2 guys...
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
I walked right into that one with Yanda.
I've revised my faves and moved JJ up to #3 and Wills up to #2. Shoved Wirfs down to #4 and swam against the current to add Becton at #5. I added some highlights in my previous post. All that being the case, I'm thinking only Thomas, Wills and Jones are worthy of the 10th pick overall - giving us BPA or tradeback options...
I dont see it with Wills. He is good in a phone booth but I dont like how he drops back and that seems like a recipe for disaster at LT. I want Thomas but dont think hell be there. I would understand Becton because we while he is raw he has the tools and we are going to run the ball a ton. Then I would trade back for Jones or maybe Cleveland.
I dont see it with Wills. He is good in a phone booth but I dont like how he drops back and that seems like a recipe for disaster at LT. I want Thomas but dont think hell be there. I would understand Becton because we while he is raw he has the tools and we are going to run the ball a ton. Then I would trade back for Jones or maybe Cleveland.
Even before Joe Thomas mentioned it, people we're questioning Becton's compatibility for the zbs. I think he can play and his ability to move is underrated IMO; but I'm not sure if LT will be his NFL niche especially early on. Keep in mind that comes from the same guy that told you Lamar Jackson couldn't play - so there is that...
Anyway, here's some footage that could change your mind some on Wills.
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Pffft... and I posted about a 17-game 2020 season yesterday... it happens.
Now need you to drop Becton altogether and add Peart...
Thanks! Not to worry, guys that are better fits at RT, OG or a power scheme in lieu of a zbs (ie: Wirfs and Becton) won't keep spots #4 and 5 for much longer. With Becton, I just wanted to give him more respect than my first impression of him looking like he'd never get out of the uncomfortable stance he was pictured in. Remember that song 16 Candles? It looked like he had all 16 lit and super-glued to the end of his dumpster. I can see him getting Orlando Brown'd to RT, which can work out well for a team that doesn't need a LT this year. Brown played in a Pro Bowl at RT in just his second season. Becton moves better than Brown and he's stronger.
Right now, I see Thomas, Wills and Jones as worthy of #10 overall. I appreciate your Peart recommendation. There's a few guys I want to watch some film on before I finalize my last 2 guys...
With Becton, I just wanted to give him more respect than my first impression of him looking like he'd never get out of the uncomfortable stance he was pictured in.
I can see him getting Orlando Brown'd to RT, which can work out well for a team that doesn't need a LT this year. Brown played in a Pro Bowl at RT in just his second season. Becton moves better than Brown and he's stronger.
lol... Kinda the road I went down as well with Mekhi... First blush was, "He can't be this bad."
Next pause was, "Can he slim down and become more effective as Brown, Jr. did?" It was at this point I realized that I did not need to project Becton's ceiling when I could see much higher floors in others who also had room to grow.
Even before Joe Thomas mentioned it, people we're questioning Becton's compatibility for the zbs. I think he can play and his ability to move is underrated IMO; but I'm not sure if LT will be his NFL niche especially early on.
Keep in mind that comes from the same guy that told you Lamar Jackson couldn't play - so there is that...
Becton can move... it's his ability to move under control that concerns me.
As for Joe on Lamar... give Joe a number. The list of Jackson doubters is long and distinguished. The list of those who saw him being as electric as he was last season? Well.... if there is a list, then it would fit on one of those tiny Post-Its.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
With Becton, I just wanted to give him more respect than my first impression of him looking like he'd never get out of the uncomfortable stance he was pictured in.
I can see him getting Orlando Brown'd to RT, which can work out well for a team that doesn't need a LT this year. Brown played in a Pro Bowl at RT in just his second season. Becton moves better than Brown and he's stronger.
lol... Kinda the road I went down as well with Mekhi... First blush was, "He can't be this bad."
Next pause was, "Can he slim down and become more effective as Brown, Jr. did?" It was at this point I realized that I did not need to project Becton's ceiling when I could see much higher floors in others who also had room to grow.
Even before Joe Thomas mentioned it, people we're questioning Becton's compatibility for the zbs. I think he can play and his ability to move is underrated IMO; but I'm not sure if LT will be his NFL niche especially early on.
Keep in mind that comes from the same guy that told you Lamar Jackson couldn't play - so there is that...
Becton can move... it's his ability to move under control that concerns me.
As for Joe on Lamar... give Joe a number. The list of Jackson doubters is long and distinguished. The list of those who saw him being as electric as he was last season? Well.... if there is a list, then it would fit on one of those tiny Post-Its.
lol... Kinda the road I went down as well with Mekhi... First blush was, "He can't be this bad."
Next pause was, "Can he slim down and become more effective as Brown, Jr. did?" It was at this point I realized that I did not need to project Becton's ceiling when I could see much higher floors in others who also had room to grow.
Becton can move... it's his ability to move under control that concerns me.
As for Joe on Lamar... give Joe a number. The list of Jackson doubters is long and distinguished. The list of those who saw him being as electric as he was last season? Well.... if there is a list, then it would fit on one of those tiny Post-Its.
I was referring to me telling Louisville Slugger that Lamar Jackson couldn't play.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!"
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