Browns players taking a knee
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He's very much a fan of the "stay on the plantation" political concepts -- the notion that old conservative white people get to tell everyone else what they can do and when they can do it. They're very uncomfortable getting slapped in the face with the reality that they don't have that power any more.
The reason current protests have such force and broad support is because the protests are against BOTH parties -- this is precisely the reason for Biden's "If you don't support me, you ain't black" comment at the end of his interview with Charlemagne a couple wks ago.. Biden also represents the group who thinks they control the narrative and actually think they can/should tell Black people when it's OK to speak. [Nobody has forgotten Biden was one of the major architects of the war on black people - excuse me, drugs.]
It's why these protests are explicitly NOT just "one side" --- these protests represent a fracturing of the Democrat party coalition of civil rights/labor and money.
I think that is a fallacy....to this extent: Do you really think that black people are going to look to the Republican party to represent their interests? I mean, seriously. The thing that you seem to be proposing is for a third party to be formed to primarily represent minority concerns, I see that possibility as simply causing this country to become more fractious.
I think that is a fallacy....to this extent: Do you really think that black people are going to look to the Republican party to represent their interests? I mean, seriously. The thing that you seem to be proposing is for a third party to be formed to primarily represent minority concerns, I see that possibility as simply causing this country to become more fractious.
Not minority -- economic class. Yes, including white people. Until then, all groups that aren't represented can and should withhold their vote.. as has already begun to happen.
My working hypothesis is that the D party as currently constructed is millionaires whose sole purpose is to coopt and defenestrate all movements with any potential for substantive change.
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Not minority -- economic class. Yes, including white people. Until then, all groups that aren't represented can and should withhold their vote.. as has already begun to happen.
Uh, uhm, seriously? You are underrepresented....so withhold your vote? That is wholly anti-thetical. It is because the minority populace "withheld their vote" in 2016 and had no enthusiasm for Hillary Clinton that begat them Donald Trump. How counterproductive was that?
My working hypothesis is that the D party as currently constructed is millionaires whose sole purpose is to coopt and defenestrate all movements with any potential for substantive change.
Well, I think your hypothesis is about as valid as is alchemy. The Democratic Party nominated, and got elected an African-American President, and they made substantive change in a number of areas (particularly healthcare). There was some improvement in conditions for minorities made there, and the only reason more was not made was because Mitch McConnell vowed to block any efforts made by Obama to do anything.
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Baker essentially played the quarterback position on one knee last year, him starting the kneel a bit earlier this year is the only difference. That is gonna be one sore knee
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That must be those MA libs from the Browns forum.
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We 100% need a third party. Something more in the middle. Hell, a republican party without the outdated social issues baggage would be a place to start.
Other countries have more than two parties and they haven't descended into any worse chaos than us.
I voted 3rd party in 2016 for that exact reason. I didn't want to pick either the Giant Douche or the Turd Sandwich
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Not minority -- economic class. Yes, including white people. Until then, all groups that aren't represented can and should withhold their vote.. as has already begun to happen.
Uh, uhm, seriously? You are underrepresented....so withhold your vote? That is wholly anti-thetical. It is because the minority populace "withheld their vote" in 2016 and had no enthusiasm for Hillary Clinton that begat them Donald Trump. How counterproductive was that?
My working hypothesis is that the D party as currently constructed is millionaires whose sole purpose is to coopt and defenestrate all movements with any potential for substantive change.
Well, I think your hypothesis is about as valid as is alchemy. The Democratic Party nominated, and got elected an African-American President, and they made substantive change in a number of areas (particularly healthcare). There was some improvement in conditions for minorities made there, and the only reason more was not made was because Mitch McConnell vowed to block any efforts made by Obama to do anything.
It is because the minority populace "withheld their vote" in 2016 and had no enthusiasm for Hillary Clinton that begat them Donald Trump. How counterproductive was that?
To them, it wasn't counterproductive at all.. And that's the point. Clinton made it clear she would give them nothing - and so they gave her nothing.
I seriously don't understand what point you're trying to make here.. they didn't see a difference between the two.
The Democratic Party nominated, and got elected an African-American President, and they made substantive change in a number of areas (particularly healthcare)
.. Substantive as defined by what? Two wars to seven? Please note that this is the entirety of the rationale.. the perspective of the person doing the defining of substantive for themselves is the key.
Anyone looking at the 08 and the most recent bailouts is aware that infinite cash is available... and yet the same person then looks at their own surroundings and sees that all trips to the hospital still result in them getting bankrupted.. and concludes that any "change" during the [token] black president accomplished diddly squat in their day to day life.
I really don't know how or why you actually believe O made substantive change.. that's not what people currently in the streets actually believe..
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
"These players are disrespecting the flag! The NFL should force them to stand or fire them! They hate America!"
* Baker says he'll kneel *
"Well, uh, I'll just DVR it and skip the kneeling. Yeah. That'll show em"
"These players are disrespecting the flag! The NFL should force them to stand or fire them! They hate America!"
* Baker says he'll kneel *
"Well, uh, I'll just DVR it and skip the kneeling. Yeah. That'll show em"
And root beer. Can’t forget root beer. It’s always a good time to show how minimally concerned you are with other people’s problems by highlighting your own first world problems, like availability of root beer.
You down with OPP? No man, root beer...
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"These players are disrespecting the flag! The NFL should force them to stand or fire them! They hate America!"
* Baker says he'll kneel *
"Well, uh, I'll just DVR it and skip the kneeling. Yeah. That'll show em"
And root beer. Can’t forget root beer. It’s always a good time to show how minimally concerned you are with other people’s problems by highlighting your own first world problems, like availability of root beer.
You down with OPP? No man, root beer...
You down with OPP? No man, root beer...
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It is because the minority populace "withheld their vote" in 2016 and had no enthusiasm for Hillary Clinton that begat them Donald Trump. How counterproductive was that?
To them, it wasn't counterproductive at all.. And that's the point. Clinton made it clear she would give them nothing - and so they gave her nothing.
I seriously don't understand what point you're trying to make here.. they didn't see a difference between the two.
The Democratic Party nominated, and got elected an African-American President, and they made substantive change in a number of areas (particularly healthcare)
.. Substantive as defined by what? Two wars to seven? Please note that this is the entirety of the rationale.. the perspective of the person doing the defining of substantive for themselves is the key.
Anyone looking at the 08 and the most recent bailouts is aware that infinite cash is available... and yet the same person then looks at their own surroundings and sees that all trips to the hospital still result in them getting bankrupted.. and concludes that any "change" during the [token] black president accomplished diddly squat in their day to day life.
I really don't know how or why you actually believe O made substantive change.. that's not what people currently in the streets actually believe..
To them, it wasn't counterproductive at all.. And that's the point. Clinton made it clear she would give them nothing - and so they gave her nothing.
I seriously don't understand what point you're trying to make here.. they didn't see a difference between the two.
The point is that there is a VAST difference between the two when it comes to how minority rights are treated. If you cannot see that, I don't know what century you are living in.
.. Substantive as defined by what? Two wars to seven? Please note that this is the entirety of the rationale.. the perspective of the person doing the defining of substantive for themselves is the key.
Anyone looking at the 08 and the most recent bailouts is aware that infinite cash is available... and yet the same person then looks at their own surroundings and sees that all trips to the hospital still result in them getting bankrupted.. and concludes that any "change" during the [token] black president accomplished diddly squat in their day to day life.
I really don't know how or why you actually believe O made substantive change.. that's not what people currently in the streets actually believe..
OK, sure, while you or others may think that Obama did no go overwhelmingly radically left, and apparently you hold that against him.....He did accomplish far far more, or at least gave a far, far better effort at accomplishing "liberal" goals than any Republican ever would have attempted..or accomplished. If you don't think so, ask some of the right wing fringers around here who claim that he went way way left. They are as wrong as you are. Obama was at heart a centrist, and tried to accomplish things from the center. The far fringe right wingers hated him for being president while being black, and the far left fringers didn't like that he didn't go as far left as perhaps they expected him to go. What that means is that we had a President that governed from the center....or perhaps slightly left of center. Which to me is appropriate.
But, I hope you are happy that you have a far right wing fringer occupying the highest position in the land....and that you are happy with his accomplishments (or lack thereof). Somehow I do not think that is how you roll.
So...why don't you tell us what YOU expected of him that he did not accomplish, or did not attempt to accomplish.
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Bob, a LOT of folks feel that way. Kneeling during our national anthem, etc, just alienates folks who DO care about racism, but do NOT equate it with our Flag, or our national anthem. I see more like "I make millions of dollars, but I don't want the poor folks to think I don't care, so I'm gonna act out in public".
It's easy to ignore, I can just set the DVR to 5 minutes after the game starts, or fast forward it ... whatever. My biggest concern is if they quit making Frostie or Barq's rootbeer this fall because of the corona virus.
Calf, it only alienates you if you choose to be alienated by it. OR, you can do like Baker and others have done and take a step or 2 to acknowledge the problem, and then you can use that brain of yours to be part of an amicable solution.
Or you could worry about root beer. Really? Fucking root beer?
Calf, it only alienates you if you choose to be alienated by it. OR, you can do like Baker and others have done and take a step or 2 to acknowledge the problem, and then you can use that brain of yours to be part of an amicable solution.
Or you could worry about root beer. Really? Fucking root beer?
Not really true - I stand by my principles - respecting our Country is one of them. There is no reason to disrespect the Anthem/Flag just to get attention for a just cause, than there is to burn down businesses/rob businesses, beat up/murder even BLACK policemen, and slur ALL policemen out there.
I didn't say it's illegal, all I said was, it is disrespect to our country, and alienating other folks they allegedly want to get on board....I don't appreciate it, and I care about the issue, but it doesn't make me care one bit more.
It has done NOTHING to help solve the problem. Therefore, it is not a solution, nor a lead in to discussions about a solution. I choose to stand by my principles, therefore kneeling is disrespect to attention, and I don't care to condone it.
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"These players are disrespecting the flag! The NFL should force them to stand or fire them! They hate America!"
* Baker says he'll kneel *
"Well, uh, I'll just DVR it and skip the kneeling. Yeah. That'll show em"
And root beer. Can’t forget root beer. It’s always a good time to show how minimally concerned you are with other people’s problems by highlighting your own first world problems, like availability of root beer.
You down with OPP? No man, root beer...
And root beer. Can’t forget root beer. It’s always a good time to show how minimally concerned you are with other people’s problems by highlighting your own first world problems, like availability of root beer.
You down with OPP? No man, root beer...
liberals have NO sense of legit humor.
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That must be those MA libs from the Browns forum.
That must be those MA libs from the Browns forum.
? YES- baconhound and unsympathetic
your ok in my book DH
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Calf, it only alienates you if you choose to be alienated by it. OR, you can do like Baker and others have done and take a step or 2 to acknowledge the problem, and then you can use that brain of yours to be part of an amicable solution.
Or you could worry about root beer. Really? Fucking root beer?
Not really true - I stand by my principles - respecting our Country is one of them. There is no reason to disrespect the Anthem/Flag just to get attention for a just cause, than there is to burn down businesses/rob businesses, beat up/murder even BLACK policemen, and slur ALL policemen out there.
I didn't say it's illegal, all I said was, it is disrespect to our country, and alienating other folks they allegedly want to get on board....I don't appreciate it, and I care about the issue, but it doesn't make me care one bit more.
It has done NOTHING to help solve the problem. Therefore, it is not a solution, nor a lead in to discussions about a solution. I choose to stand by my principles, therefore kneeling is disrespect to attention, and I don't care to condone it.
Not really true - I stand by my principles - respecting our Country is one of them. There is no reason to disrespect the Anthem/Flag just to get attention for a just cause, than there is to burn down businesses/rob businesses, beat up/murder even BLACK policemen, and slur ALL policemen out there.
I didn't say it's illegal, all I said was, it is disrespect to our country, and alienating other folks they allegedly want to get on board....I don't appreciate it, and I care about the issue, but it doesn't make me care one bit more.
It has done NOTHING to help solve the problem. Therefore, it is not a solution, nor a lead in to discussions about a solution. I choose to stand by my principles, therefore kneeling is disrespect to attention, and I don't care to condone it.
The bold statement seems to infer that there is something than can be done to solve the problem...so what are these solutions that you have in your back pocket.
Remember when the NFL got involved with the ALS Foundation (or some such group)....and had everyone taking the "ALS Challenge" by dumping a bucket of ice water over themselves in order to "Create Awareness" of the situation?
As I see it, the kneeling was simply the same thing.....a gesture to create awareness of the problem of police brutality. The problem of course is that people misappropriated the gesture for their own personal reasons, wanting to to make something out of it that it was not. What kind of gesture could they have employed, if not the kneeling to create awareness? Dump ice over themselves during the anthem? Give the Black Power salute, like the guys at the 1968 Olympics? Or something else that would have been effective.
AWARENESS.
Also: , riddle me this: When I was young I was an altar boy, and except for when I had to get up and do some duty around the altar, I had to kneel at the altar. My conclusion then, based on how people interpreted the kneeling by these players, must be that when I had to kneel then, that I was disrespecting God. It was after all the same gesture. (except I had to get down on both knees).
Contrarily....some could say I was being respectful and reverent of God by kneeling. Perhaps Kaepernick et al were in fact being respectful and reverent toward the anthem and the flag when they chose to kneel. And I think there is some legitimacy to that. Kneeling during the anthem can mean that you are showing reverence and respect to what the flag/anthem stand for: Liberty, Justice, Freedom. I would bow, or kneel to those concepts.
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And root beer. Can’t forget root beer. It’s always a good time to show how minimally concerned you are with other people’s problems by highlighting your own first world problems, like availability of root beer.
You down with OPP? No man, root beer...
liberals have NO sense of legit humor.
liberals have NO sense of legit humor.
What do you mean Cal? You give us all kinds of opportunities to make fun of you.
Or, take this example: Three guys walk into a Synagogue during a Saturday Shabatt ceremony. One is dressed in Ku Klux Klan garb carrying a Confederate Flag, another is dressed in Nazi garb carrying a Swastika; another is dressed black garb and hiding his face and carrying an Isis flag. It seems that they are there to stir up trouble. How are they greeted?
With a plate of lox, bagels, onions and cream cheese.
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That must be those MA libs from the Browns forum.
? YES- baconhound and unsympathetic
your ok in my book DH
? YES- baconhound and unsympathetic
your ok in my book DH
Baconhound is a pretty smart guy. Don't know where care much about unsympathetic.
WSS
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Calf, it only alienates you if you choose to be alienated by it. OR, you can do like Baker and others have done and take a step or 2 to acknowledge the problem, and then you can use that brain of yours to be part of an amicable solution.
Or you could worry about root beer. Really? Fucking root beer?
Not really true - I stand by my principles - respecting our Country is one of them. There is no reason to disrespect the Anthem/Flag just to get attention for a just cause, than there is to burn down businesses/rob businesses, beat up/murder even BLACK policemen, and slur ALL policemen out there.
I didn't say it's illegal, all I said was, it is disrespect to our country, and alienating other folks they allegedly want to get on board....I don't appreciate it, and I care about the issue, but it doesn't make me care one bit more.
It has done NOTHING to help solve the problem. Therefore, it is not a solution, nor a lead in to discussions about a solution. I choose to stand by my principles, therefore kneeling is disrespect to attention, and I don't care to condone it.
Not really true - I stand by my principles - respecting our Country is one of them. There is no reason to disrespect the Anthem/Flag just to get attention for a just cause, than there is to burn down businesses/rob businesses, beat up/murder even BLACK policemen, and slur ALL policemen out there.
I didn't say it's illegal, all I said was, it is disrespect to our country, and alienating other folks they allegedly want to get on board....I don't appreciate it, and I care about the issue, but it doesn't make me care one bit more.
It has done NOTHING to help solve the problem. Therefore, it is not a solution, nor a lead in to discussions about a solution. I choose to stand by my principles, therefore kneeling is disrespect to attention, and I don't care to condone it.
That’s the thing about respect, it’s a 2 way street. There’s a rather large segment of our population who aren’t feeling it, and they’re making it known. I can’t claim l know what it’s like to be black in America. You can’t either. But l can listen. I can try to comprehend, and at the end of the day l want to bring us all into the fold.
So what can WE do to enable people of color to feel the same way about America that we do? That is the question. That is the goal.
Protests, riots, kneeling at a football game? Those aren’t solutions. Those are just a bright blinking SOS. We’re mentally moving past that now into solution phase, and l’m happy to hear you speaking about solutions too.
Solutions start with understanding the mindset of the opposition, or at least an attempt to do so. Where are they coming from? Why do they feel this way? What do they hope to accomplish?
Embroil yourself in that shit. Hopefully at the end you’ll see it’s not “they”, but rather a part of “us”. Then we can move forward.
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And root beer. Can’t forget root beer. It’s always a good time to show how minimally concerned you are with other people’s problems by highlighting your own first world problems, like availability of root beer.
You down with OPP? No man, root beer...
liberals have NO sense of legit humor.
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