How did the Defense get so bad?
-
Pro bowlers first teamers since 1988 three Matthews, Minefield, Dixon....... that's it three. Offence and defense, Kosar was 1st team in 1987.
And 1988 was the year the BROWNS used 5 starters, Kosar only started in 9 games.
Fontenot started was 0-1 passing and Danielson finished the game. Five different starters in 16 games went 10-6 made the wc game lost to Houston 24-23....what a season. Five different starters and still made the playoffs, one for the trivia contests went 10-7 overall. Normally with 5 starters you go 7-9 if you're lucky. Oh and RB Fontenot was in GB the next season, 40 receptions and 17 rushes finished his career with GB the next year 30 receptions and 17 rushes again. More BROWNS and GB trivia.
Passing
No. Player Age Pos G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD 19 Bernie Kosar 25 QB 9 9 6-3-0 156 259 60.2 1890 10 3.9 7 2.7 77 7.3 6.9 12.1 210.0 84.3 25 172 6.05 5.64 8.8 3 3 10 Mike Pagel 28 5 4 2-2-0 71 134 53.0 736 3 2.2 4 3.0 28 5.5 4.6 10.4 147.2 64.1 1 9 5.39 4.50 0.7 12 Don Strock 38 4 2 2-0-0 55 91 60.4 736 6 6.6 5 5.5 41 8.1 6.9 13.4 184.0 85.2 4 26 7.47 6.37 4.2 1 1 18 Gary Danielson 37 2 1 0-1-0 31 52 59.6 324 0 0.0 1 1.9 26 6.2 5.4 10.5 162.0 69.7 6 43 4.84 4.07 10.3 0 1 28 Herman Fontenot 25 16 1 0 1 0.0 0 0 0.0 0 0.0 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 39.6 0 0 0.00 0.00 Defense & Fumbles ProBowl....* 1st-tm All-Pro
- Glossary*
Games Def Interceptions Fumbles Tackles No. Player Age Pos G GS Int Yds TD Lng PD FF Fmb FR Yds TD Sk Comb Solo Ast TFL QBHits Sfty Team Total 26.9 16 20 319 1 75 3 32 23 -28 1 37 59 Mike Johnson 26 LILB 16 16 2 36 0 31 1 0 0 0 0 0.0 132 132 0 57 Clay Matthews* 32 ROLB 16 16 0 2 0 0 6.0 101 101 0 48 Brian Washington 23 SS 16 14 3 104 1 75 0.5 69 69 0 92 Michael Dean Perry 23 16 2 2 0 2 10 1 6.0 25 25 0 51 Eddie Johnson 29 RILB 15 8 2 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 3.0 44 Earnest Byner 26 RB 16 16 5 2 0 0 0.0 22 Felix Wright 29 FS 16 16 5 126 0 53 1 1 0 0 0.0 34 Kevin Mack 26 FB 11 11 5 1 0 0 0.0 12 Don Strock 38 4 2 4 2 -2 0 0.0 72 Charles Buchanan 24 9 0 5.0 1 56 David Grayson 24 LOLB 16 14 5.0 91 Sam Clancy 30 LDE 16 12 4.5 23 Mark Harper 27 13 1 2 13 0 8 0 1 0 0 1.0 88 Reggie Langhorne 25 WR 16 16 3 1 0 0 0.0 42 Tim Manoa 24 16 4 4 0 0 0 0.0 89 Gerald McNeil 26 16 0 3 1 0 0 0.0 31 Frank Minnifield*+ 28 LCB 15 15 4 16 0 13 0.0 29 Hanford Dixon* 30 RCB 15 15 2 24 0 24 0 1 0 0 0.0 78 Carl Hairston 36 RDE 14 13 3.0 35 Will Hill 25 16 1 0 1 0 0 1.0 19 Bernie Kosar 25 QB 9 9 0 2 0 0 0.0 73 Gregg Rakoczy 23 C 16 16 2 0 -16 0 0.0 4 Max Runager 32 13 0 1 1 -16 0 0.0 85 Clarence Weathers 26 wr 16 6 2 0 0 0 0.0 18 Gary Danielson 37 2 1 1 0 -4 0 0.0 95 Marlon Jones 24 16 1 1.0 10 Mike Pagel 28 5 4 0 1 0 0 0.0 84 Webster Slaughter 24 WR 8 8 1 0 0 0 0.0 70 Larry Williams 25 LG 14 14 0 1 0 0 0.0 -
I never thought it was good, but during the worst years it was definitely better than the awful O we had, so I guess the offense doing better than the defense makes some people worry aabout the defense.
I never remember it being anywhere close to this bad. Many people gave us a break week 1 because it was the Ravens, but now we looked exactly the same against the Bengals and it's scaring me.
I think what's frustrating is we have a QB that could really win some games if he got some breaks. When was the last time Baker got a defensive TD? A special teams score? Shit, how many 3 and outs does Baker get from HIS defense? How about stopping a team on 4th down? Nope, Baker doesn't get ANY of that.
Think of it this way. What is Baker's record if he's on the Steelers? Those jerkoffs ALWAYS seem to have a good defense, and I can promise you this, we won't be able to run the ball on the Steelers all willy-nilly. It just doesn't work that way against them, AND Baker won't have time to throw. Just how it is.
Can you imagine how good we'd be if teams feared our defense? With our running game, our TEs, and our OL and WRs? Shit, we could play ball control and eat up teams and the clock at the same time. However, if we can't stop ANYONE, we're going to lose a ton of games because outscoring other people on a constant basis is going to be extremely difficult. Can we do it? I think we proved that we can, but it's not a terrific map to success.
I know playing GM is obviously much harder than it looks, but the one trade I wanted for our Browns was the one for Khalil Mack. I literally would have traded just about whatever they wanted to get him. Myles and Mack on the same team would have been so stupid. Teams wouldn't be able to drop back without serious problems.
Listen, I realize the injuries to Johnson, Greedy, and Mack didn't help, and I know Delpit was supposed to be a big deal, but geeeeeeeez. I don't expect some massive turnaround when most of our injured return, but they HAVE to help, right? RIGHT?! ?
we looked exactly the same against the Bengals and it's scaring me
He picked us apart over the middle before the rush could get home where something called a LB is supposed to be - but we have zilch. And so that will be the season. Again.. because this isn't the first time we've had decent outside DB play but nada over the middle.
If a rookie with no preseason can do it.. veterans around the league will paraphrase the Nike ad from the 90's - "anything he can do I can do better"
Call it doom and gloom - or call it self-scouting. Accept reality on reality's terms.. shows where we need to improve to win.
It takes top units on both sides of the ball to actually win a title.. myths about O or D being the "only" side that matters rely more on luck and hyperbole.
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
we looked exactly the same against the Bengals and it's scaring me
He picked us apart over the middle before the rush could get home where something called a LB is supposed to be - but we have zilch. And so that will be the season. Again.. because this isn't the first time we've had decent outside DB play but nada over the middle.
If a rookie with no preseason can do it.. veterans around the league will paraphrase the Nike ad from the 90's - "anything he can do I can do better"
Call it doom and gloom - or call it self-scouting. Accept reality on reality's terms.. shows where we need to improve to win.
It takes top units on both sides of the ball to actually win a title.. myths about O or D being the "only" side that matters rely more on luck and hyperbole.
He picked us apart over the middle before the rush could get home where something called a LB is supposed to be - but we have zilch. And so that will be the season. Again.. because this isn't the first time we've had decent outside DB play but nada over the middle.
If a rookie with no preseason can do it.. veterans around the league will paraphrase the Nike ad from the 90's - "anything he can do I can do better"
Call it doom and gloom - or call it self-scouting. Accept reality on reality's terms.. shows where we need to improve to win.
It takes top units on both sides of the ball to actually win a title.. myths about O or D being the "only" side that matters rely more on luck and hyperbole.
If our defense didn't go 0/5 on 4th downs the running game would have been on the field more, cinci would not have scoring drives continue against the defense, Cleveland may have score more.
And the BROWNS beat cinci by 12 or more? They won by 5 the line was CLE -6...... what will the line be in WEEK 7 and Burrow doesn't have only 1 week's NFL experience under his belt ? What will that line be which is a good indicator of how the game might go.
Beating Cincinnati by 5 is a win over the weakest team in the AFCN so what will BAL and PIT do with two experienced quarterbacks, well we know what one did on the road so far.
GO BROWNS, should be an interesting year !
-
Does anyone remember Joe Schobert?... The D captain?... Losing him hurt a lot like I knew it would.
Does anyone remember Joe Schobert?... The D captain?... Losing him hurt a lot like I knew it would.
isn't he out of football now, haven't heard his name since he left the Browns.
-
isn't he out of football now, haven't heard his name since he left the Browns.
He starts for the Jaguars He had 8 tackles last week with 1 TFL
-
isn't he out of football now, haven't heard his name since he left the Browns.
He starts for the Jaguars He had 8 tackles last week with 1 TFL
He starts for the Jaguars He had 8 tackles last week with 1 TFL
Id be willing to bet the TFL was the ball carrier falling down and he tapped him on the shoulder.
-
isn't he out of football now, haven't heard his name since he left the Browns.
He signed with the Jags...
-
isn't he out of football now, haven't heard his name since he left the Browns.
He signed with the Jags...
He signed with the Jags...
I know that, my point is, he's not tearing up the league since he left here. He was notorious for making the tackle 10+ yards downfield. He was not worth the contract he was demanding.
-
I know that, my point is, he's not tearing up the league since he left here. He was notorious for making the tackle 10+ yards downfield. He was not worth the contract he was demanding.
He was better than anything we had...
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
I know that, my point is, he's not tearing up the league since he left here. He was notorious for making the tackle 10+ yards downfield. He was not worth the contract he was demanding.
He was better than anything we had...
He was better than anything we had...
we are in a LB rebuild. These young guys need to step up their game.
-
we are in a LB rebuild. These young guys need to step up their game.
First they need to heal. Hard for Phillips and Wilson to step up from the pinewood derby.?
-
we are in a LB rebuild. These young guys need to step up their game.
Ya think?... There's an old saying... You don't quit your current job until you have one to replace it...
-
we looked exactly the same against the Bengals and it's scaring me
He picked us apart over the middle before the rush could get home where something called a LB is supposed to be - but we have zilch. And so that will be the season. Again.. because this isn't the first time we've had decent outside DB play but nada over the middle.
If a rookie with no preseason can do it.. veterans around the league will paraphrase the Nike ad from the 90's - "anything he can do I can do better"
Call it doom and gloom - or call it self-scouting. Accept reality on reality's terms.. shows where we need to improve to win.
It takes top units on both sides of the ball to actually win a title.. myths about O or D being the "only" side that matters rely more on luck and hyperbole.
Call it doom and gloom - or call it self-scouting. Accept reality on reality's terms.. shows where we need to improve to win.
Yeah, and it makes me wish we had Joe Schobert every week. I know we can't pay everyone, but middle linebacker seemed pretty important to me.
-
Call it doom and gloom - or call it self-scouting. Accept reality on reality's terms.. shows where we need to improve to win.
Yeah, and it makes me wish we had Joe Schobert every week. I know we can't pay everyone, but middle linebacker seemed pretty important to me.
Yeah, and it makes me wish we had Joe Schobert every week. I know we can't pay everyone, but middle linebacker seemed pretty important to me.
I get the sentiment... I wanted to keep Joe, too, just not at the final price paid. He's far from irreplaceable. LB simply was not a priority this off-season.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Yeah, and it makes me wish we had Joe Schobert every week. I know we can't pay everyone, but middle linebacker seemed pretty important to me.
I get the sentiment... I wanted to keep Joe, too, just not at the final price paid. He's far from irreplaceable. LB simply was not a priority this off-season.
I get the sentiment... I wanted to keep Joe, too, just not at the final price paid. He's far from irreplaceable. LB simply was not a priority this off-season.
Yep, you absolutely nailed it. Left us with a big hole, but hopefully Mack can somewhat fill it.
-
Yep, you absolutely nailed it. Left us with a big hole, but hopefully Mack can somewhat fill it.
I don't think Mack is that good honestly...
-
Yep, you absolutely nailed it. Left us with a big hole, but hopefully Mack can somewhat fill it.
I don't think Mack is that good honestly...
I don't think Mack is that good honestly...
Yeah, me either really. But he honestly can't be worse than who's out right now. The combination of Mack and Kevin Johnson returning could actually make a difference. Johnson especially, as Tavier Thomas should NEVER be playing anything but special teams. He's literally that bad. I want to say he gave up a catch on 90% of his targets or something like that. Johnson will be a stratospheric upgrade, and Mack should help a little.
-
Mack was a 5th round pick rookie. Who knows what kind of jump he was about to make going into year 2.
-
Mack was a 5th round pick rookie. Who knows what kind of jump he was about to make going into year 2.
what kind of jump he was about to make going into year 2.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
...plus how many DCs in how many years?
It ain't rocket science... except to Gipper.
What a pussy answer. you want it to be that simple but it fucking just isn’t. Part of my belief is that this general manager ,who you like to suck the dick of , has dropped the ball in talent acquisition on that side of things so Lick his scrotum if you must while the rest of us try to come up with answers.
What a pussy answer. you want it to be that simple but it fucking just isn’t. Part of my belief is that this general manager ,who you like to suck the dick of , has dropped the ball in talent acquisition on that side of things so Lick his scrotum if you must while the rest of us try to come up with answers.
Holy crap, are you channeling he who’s name is no longer in this forum ?
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login