Baker Mayfield
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I'm gonna agree here... If we get stable qb play today and a stout defense.. we win today.. But the coaching today was exceptionally shitty... So lets not excuse them either... It was a team loss today.. Yeah... Baker sucked... But it was more than him...
It really felt like the Steelers were a step ahead all day. Defensively we had a game plan for what we thought we were going to see, like a bunch of short passes, and seemed prepared early on with some of those getting deflected and almost intercepted, but their offense pulled out more bags of tricks that our defense wasn't ready for. And on offense, the Line looked like they had a rough day, particularly the Tackles. I really think they got exposed today by speed.
It really felt like the Steelers were a step ahead all day.
Yup... I can remember early on wondering if they were in our huddle...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Aaron Rodgers had a HOF resume after 3 years
Baker will be lucky to get a contract extension from the team that drafted him
Didn't Rodgers sit the bench for his first three seasons in the NFL?
Didn't Rodgers sit the bench for his first three seasons in the NFL?
I really enjoy your wit...
... when it's not pointed at me.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Didn't Rodgers sit the bench for his first three seasons in the NFL?
I really enjoy your wit...
... when it's not pointed at me.
I really enjoy your wit...
... when it's not pointed at me.
Oh, I can't pass that up. Been saving this all afternoon and evening so people could see that slowpoke we could have had instead of Coleman @#15 or Ogbah @ #32. ?
This was the best game of the day with Henry punching it in from the Wild-cat in OT for the win.
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But to base it on one game is foolish, as even all time greats have bad games, and to only want to write to post how bad he is is jerkish.
I'm not saying all of your post is incorrect - it isn't.
But the selected part above is. Baker struggles against quality defenses, has for 3 years now. And he plays in an offense designed to mask his deficiencies as a QB. It's been very obvious from the start of the season.
I'm not saying all of your post is incorrect - it isn't.
But the selected part above is. Baker struggles against quality defenses, has for 3 years now. And he plays in an offense designed to mask his deficiencies as a QB. It's been very obvious from the start of the season.
I prefer to think of it as our OFFENSE as a whole has struggled vs top defenses. However, Baker had a very bad game today.
But he played with bruised ribs, a star? ROG out, his main best rb in the NFL ? out, his top two wr's out. "past three years" doesn't tell much, since kitchen's offense was junk - and his play calling was worse. Opposing defenses were telling the Browns players that they KNEW what play they were going to run most of the time.
That isn't on Baker. The defense has major injuries - this year, the offense rocks, it's brilliant. But they couldn't block vs the squealers blitzes. I personally lament running on first down nearly every time except a few times, one of them just before the half, I think. Then they had to throw on 3rd and long, etc.
It isn't all on Baker. I could tell Baker didn't have zip on his passes, that figures. Once they fell behind, they had to start throwing more, and Baker couldn't get it done often.
Every other team has lost to the squealers. Let's see how the Browns come back the next four games.
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It really felt like the Steelers were a step ahead all day.
Yup... I can remember early on wondering if they were in our huddle...
Yup... I can remember early on wondering if they were in our huddle...
I don't like to write too much after a bad loss, it's better when I have some time to process. I honestly don't know many QBs that could've done jack shit out there, but I don't like how we didn't show up basically across the board. The defense made a small effort in the first half, but it was pointless. Baker had no time to throw and even when he did his first read was almost never open.
People can say that we're 4-2 all they want but it doesn't feel that way right now and we've got a feisty Bengals team coming up that can sure as shit beat our asses it we don't get prepared and play better team ball. Teams are now sitting on the play-action boots and making us pay for our predictable play fakes. (past two weeks)
It might be one game, but Browns were once again humiliated in Pittsburgh and again look like the little brother who hasn't yet hit puberty. It was really bad, and perhaps worst of all, our QB further injured himself and gave the trolls more ammunition.
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Yes, there is.
That's deflecting criticism, dude.
Try challenging yourself to comprehend what you're typing - or just leave and never post again, as you promised.
Nobody will miss you - except possibly Icecube, but we think he's gay.
No that isn't. At least to me. But I am not some brainiac. I'm just some dumb jock coach apparently.
I never said a thing about not criticizing him. Didn't even try to explain away why he played bad. He played bad because he played bad.
I don't know why you are of the opinion that pointing out that it does happen to others deflects criticism?
But we can use another subject they may not be as sore apparently. If I were to point out that X player only did this is in a certain game, But LeBron James had a similar game that isn't saying don't criticize that player, its just pointing out the fact that an all time great can do the same thing.
So in summary, Baker is ABSOLUTELY entitled to criticism, especially for today's game. And based on today's game, Rodgers would also be entitled to the same criticism. It's not an either or thing
No that isn't. At least to me
All your points are invalid because your points don't address what I double-secret-this-time-swear-intended to say but still haven't. Got it!
Socrates couldn't debate while drinking hemlock, therefore clearly Baker Mayfield is a great quarterback when the moon is in retrograde and I'll leave this forum if anyone debates me on this while holding a left-handed smokeshifter!
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
I'm not sure why you all are frying mayfield. He wasn't good today but his ribs are also fucked up and he's already on his second coach since being drafted. It's going to take time and if the Browns reset again it's going to take even longer. Is he worth his draft position? no, is he a bad qb? I don't think he is and he has the confidence to bounce back. The AFC north is a really tough division. You gotta give that guy some credit for trotting out there today, he was hurting.
I'm not sure why you all are frying mayfield. He wasn't good today but his ribs are also fucked up and he's already on his second coach since being drafted. It's going to take time and if the Browns reset again it's going to take even longer. Is he worth his draft position? no, is he a bad qb? I don't think he is and he has the confidence to bounce back. The AFC north is a really tough division. You gotta give that guy some credit for trotting out there today, he was hurting.
Correction: 4th coach. Jackson, Williams (intern), Kitchens, Stefanski.
I'm with you that Browns need stability and Stefanski seems like he's doing the best so far in getting it done. The problem with Baker is that no matter the coach, he still makes the same mistakes over and over. With the current roster, the Browns need a game manager QB, who throws for less than 200 yards and doesn't turn the ball.
Baker currently has some traits that I haven't seen improve in 3 years:- Pocket awareness/happy feet. He moves way too much and doesn't reset his stance before throwing. Brady looks like a robot but that is what has made him be the GOAT, only needs one step up in the pocket to avoid rushers, and a throwing technique from feet to shoulders perfected to the extreme. Meanwhile, Baker has even said he doesn't need a 'throwing coach' to improve his technique IIRC.
- Vision. Not only he usually sticks to the first read, but he also doesn't see wide open WR when he leaves what most of the times is a perfectly decent pocket. Yesterday's presnap and postsnap reads on Fitzpatrick are AWFUL. I know he is great, but I bet the Steelers' safety has had few easier INTs in his career. He was sitting there with a Martini waiting for the throw.
- Gunslinger. He has 39 INTs in 2 and a half seasons for a reason (35 games played). This is something that sometimes I believe he has improved, because I've seen him throwing the ball out of bounds, but many times he forces the play and puts too much into the ball, sails high and the DBs feast on that.
Most of those traits I think are linked to the mental aspect. This guy has some 'fire' in himself, which is a great trait for leadership. I bet that the players love him in the locker room. The problem is that he doesn't have the 'cold mind' needed for reading the defenses and playing under pressure.As a viewer, I feel like if Baker has to second guess (because his first read is covered, the pressure is getting to him, the pocket collapses and he has to move), then the play turns blurry and there the mistakes happen. And I think that is hard to overcome or change and you can't become a game manager if you don't have that.
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Baker was not my first pick...Josh Allen was. He reminded me of Testeverde, who was a bust until he had the right coaching. Mayfield is our QB, and I'm not ready to give up on him. He's never going to be Aaron Rodgers, but when he is playing with confidence, he can be more than adequate to win games. As for yesterday...he sucked. He should not have been playing...especially against the Squealers. Personally, I think his confidence was severely damaged last season, and he is still not fully recovered. He may never be the same player we saw at the end of 2018. I'm not trying to make excuses, but the team needs stability at the qb position. I think we have the right coach....even though he had a bad day yesterday, so I'm not ready to bench Mayfield in favor of Case Keenum...yet. However, with the injured ribs, I think I would have strongly considered starting Keenum yesterday.
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Baker was not my first pick...Josh Allen was. He reminded me of Testeverde, who was a bust until he had the right coaching. Mayfield is our QB, and I'm not ready to give up on him. He's never going to be Aaron Rodgers, but when he is playing with confidence, he can be more than adequate to win games. As for yesterday...he sucked. He should not have been playing...especially against the Squealers. Personally, I think his confidence was severely damaged last season, and he is still not fully recovered. He may never be the same player we saw at the end of 2018. I'm not trying to make excuses, but the team needs stability at the qb position. I think we have the right coach....even though he had a bad day yesterday, so I'm not ready to bench Mayfield in favor of Case Keenum...yet. However, with the injured ribs, I think I would have strongly considered starting Keenum yesterday.
Baker was not my first pick...Josh Allen was. He reminded me of Testeverde, who was a bust until he had the right coaching. Mayfield is our QB, and I'm not ready to give up on him. He's never going to be Aaron Rodgers, but when he is playing with confidence, he can be more than adequate to win games. As for yesterday...he sucked. He should not have been playing...especially against the Squealers. Personally, I think his confidence was severely damaged last season, and he is still not fully recovered. He may never be the same player we saw at the end of 2018. I'm not trying to make excuses, but the team needs stability at the qb position. I think we have the right coach....even though he had a bad day yesterday, so I'm not ready to bench Mayfield in favor of Case Keenum...yet. However, with the injured ribs, I think I would have strongly considered starting Keenum yesterday.
I agree with most of that, except it's easy to look in the rear view mirror & say they should have sat him due to injury.
I think Keenum would have met the same fate. The pitt front 7 just killed the Browns O line.
Karlis Missed -
No that isn't. At least to me
All your points are invalid because your points don't address what I double-secret-this-time-swear-intended to say but still haven't. Got it!
Socrates couldn't debate while drinking hemlock, therefore clearly Baker Mayfield is a great quarterback when the moon is in retrograde and I'll leave this forum if anyone debates me on this while holding a left-handed smokeshifter!
All your points are invalid because your points don't address what I double-secret-this-time-swear-intended to say but still haven't. Got it!
Socrates couldn't debate while drinking hemlock, therefore clearly Baker Mayfield is a great quarterback when the moon is in retrograde and I'll leave this forum if anyone debates me on this while holding a left-handed smokeshifter!
Umm ok??? I have no clue what you are talking about.
But I think the issue here is that you and I have a different view on criticism.
You see, silly ole me thinks saying how Terrible Baker was is CRITICISM. But I guess that its not. And of course that (as well as other things like it) was in my original post.
To me, deflecting criticism is "Baker was off BECAUSE of something outside of his control." When I used Facts/Stats to show Rodgers had a similar story THAT DAY, that isn't taking criticism off Baker, not giving Rodgers more, not comparing the CAREERS of the two COMPLETE opposites. If you can't comprehend that, then I can't help you because we just have a fundamental difference in interpretation.
I will just leave it at that. I feel no need to continue on with the useless back and forth with you over trivial things.
Peace out, have a good day and God Bless
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All your points are invalid because your points don't address what I double-secret-this-time-swear-intended to say but still haven't. Got it!
Socrates couldn't debate while drinking hemlock, therefore clearly Baker Mayfield is a great quarterback when the moon is in retrograde and I'll leave this forum if anyone debates me on this while holding a left-handed smokeshifter!
Umm ok??? I have no clue what you are talking about.
But I think the issue here is that you and I have a different view on criticism.
You see, silly ole me thinks saying how Terrible Baker was is CRITICISM. But I guess that its not. And of course that (as well as other things like it) was in my original post.
To me, deflecting criticism is "Baker was off BECAUSE of something outside of his control." When I used Facts/Stats to show Rodgers had a similar story THAT DAY, that isn't taking criticism off Baker, not giving Rodgers more, not comparing the CAREERS of the two COMPLETE opposites. If you can't comprehend that, then I can't help you because we just have a fundamental difference in interpretation.
I will just leave it at that. I feel no need to continue on with the useless back and forth with you over trivial things.
Peace out, have a good day and God Bless
When I used Facts/Stats to show Rodgers had a similar story THAT DAY, that isn't taking criticism off Baker, not giving Rodgers more, not comparing the CAREERS of the two COMPLETE opposites. If you can't comprehend that
Rodgers didn't have a good day yesterday for whatever reasons. He's had 184 starts.. and most of Rodgers' average-to-bad days are better than Baker's best day.
In year 3 we're still waiting for Baker to have two good days in a row.
Because of his years of consistently excellent play, Rodgers has earned the right to be lazy with his feet or his eyes [I don't know what specifically happened yesterday] and not have his starting role questioned. BAKER HAS NOT. Rodgers won the SB his 3rd full season starting.
There is no "comparison" between the two - and you clearly can't comprehend that.
But please keep on saying how you're not trying to apologize for Baker.
This whole thread, you've been pushing the notion that "See, Rodgers Had A Bad Day So Give Baker A Pass Too" -- which is apologizing for Baker. You've of course conveniently not confronted the reality that for the Rodgers example to be relevant, Baker would first have to be equal to Rodgers. Being a professional means you're only as good as your last deliverable -- and Baker's deliverables aren't great. LeBron has stopped dunking in the regular season because after 17 seasons he has earned the right to save himself for playoffs.. but if a rookie tried that, he'd get sent to the D-league.
Sunday's performance is Baker's average.. it's an outlier for Rodgers.
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
I'm not sure why you all are frying mayfield. He wasn't good today but his ribs are also fucked up and he's already on his second coach since being drafted. It's going to take time and if the Browns reset again it's going to take even longer. Is he worth his draft position? no, is he a bad qb? I don't think he is and he has the confidence to bounce back. The AFC north is a really tough division. You gotta give that guy some credit for trotting out there today, he was hurting.
I'm not sure why you all are frying mayfield. He wasn't good today but his ribs are also fucked up and he's already on his second coach since being drafted. It's going to take time and if the Browns reset again it's going to take even longer. Is he worth his draft position? no, is he a bad qb? I don't think he is and he has the confidence to bounce back. The AFC north is a really tough division. You gotta give that guy some credit for trotting out there today, he was hurting.
I hope you are correct!!
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When I used Facts/Stats to show Rodgers had a similar story THAT DAY, that isn't taking criticism off Baker, not giving Rodgers more, not comparing the CAREERS of the two COMPLETE opposites. If you can't comprehend that
Rodgers didn't have a good day yesterday for whatever reasons. He's had 184 starts.. and most of Rodgers' average-to-bad days are better than Baker's best day.
In year 3 we're still waiting for Baker to have two good days in a row.
Because of his years of consistently excellent play, Rodgers has earned the right to be lazy with his feet or his eyes [I don't know what specifically happened yesterday] and not have his starting role questioned. BAKER HAS NOT. Rodgers won the SB his 3rd full season starting.
There is no "comparison" between the two - and you clearly can't comprehend that.
But please keep on saying how you're not trying to apologize for Baker.
This whole thread, you've been pushing the notion that "See, Rodgers Had A Bad Day So Give Baker A Pass Too" -- which is apologizing for Baker. You've of course conveniently not confronted the reality that for the Rodgers example to be relevant, Baker would first have to be equal to Rodgers. Being a professional means you're only as good as your last deliverable -- and Baker's deliverables aren't great. LeBron has stopped dunking in the regular season because after 17 seasons he has earned the right to save himself for playoffs.. but if a rookie tried that, he'd get sent to the D-league.
Sunday's performance is Baker's average.. it's an outlier for Rodgers.
Rodgers didn't have a good day yesterday for whatever reasons. He's had 184 starts.. and most of Rodgers' average-to-bad days are better than Baker's best day.
In year 3 we're still waiting for Baker to have two good days in a row.
Because of his years of consistently excellent play, Rodgers has earned the right to be lazy with his feet or his eyes [I don't know what specifically happened yesterday] and not have his starting role questioned. BAKER HAS NOT. Rodgers won the SB his 3rd full season starting.
There is no "comparison" between the two - and you clearly can't comprehend that.
But please keep on saying how you're not trying to apologize for Baker.
This whole thread, you've been pushing the notion that "See, Rodgers Had A Bad Day So Give Baker A Pass Too" -- which is apologizing for Baker. You've of course conveniently not confronted the reality that for the Rodgers example to be relevant, Baker would first have to be equal to Rodgers. Being a professional means you're only as good as your last deliverable -- and Baker's deliverables aren't great. LeBron has stopped dunking in the regular season because after 17 seasons he has earned the right to save himself for playoffs.. but if a rookie tried that, he'd get sent to the D-league.
Sunday's performance is Baker's average.. it's an outlier for Rodgers.
No, you don't get your own facts to back up your assertions.
Nobody compared their careers. I simply pointed out that BOTH had Terrible days. And yes one has earned that right and the other has not. There is NO ARGUMENT there.
But I will spell it out even clearer/slower for you. BAKER MAYFIELD WAS HORRENDOUS YESTERDAY AND DESERVES NO PASS. BUT, for the posters who ONLY show up when Baker has a putrid game and use THAT GAME to justify just how incredibly bad he is to justify everything wrong with him is disingenuous.
Again, you are confusing pointing out that it does happen to others as deflecting criticism/apologizing when the two AREN'T connected.
The reason in the same thread I said that IF BM were to turn around and throw for 500 and 6 TDs against Cincinnati thst doesn't mean he has suddenly make some miraculous turn is because its an outlier. But we can leave Rodgers out of this now, as he was ONLY used to show to those who ONLY post about Baker in his worst moments that it can happen to someone who is WAY OUT OF BAKERS LEAGUE.
Now, without you trying to accuse me of deflecting criticism again, do you think that yesterday was synonymous of what Baker is as a whole? Or was he worse than usual? And how do you explain his play before the Steelers game (4-1)? Again not an excuse/deflecting/etc., but its almost as if you play weaker competition you play better, and better competition you play worse.
And while I understand and agree with your premise, if you want to hang on every word I wrote then why shouldn't you be held to the same standard? Saying as a professional you're only as good..., but you don't use that for another professional.
And as for LeBron, i don't think you understood the parallels. Sure, he has earned the right to save himself for the playoffs and a rookie hasn't. But that has NOTHING to do with what I said. That is you trying to shift an argument to fit your narrative. So again, lets use him.
I won't use actual game stats, just a fictional one.
LBJ: 5-21 FG, 5 Reb, 4 Ass. and 8 TOs
London Ball: 3-19, 4 REB., 4 Ass. 8 TOs
Now, if I were someone who liked the Pelicans and got on their site to blast Ball and call for his head, post after post, but didn't post when the Pels had done well the last few weeks, but wanted to use THIS GAME as a barometer for what he is, when one of the all.time great players has an extremely similar game that night, it just shows that no matter what level of player (great/average/barely in the league) it can happen. It doesn't mean that the 2 are even comparable, it doesn't mean that the game Ball had was in any way excusable, and doesn't mean that after the entire career of greatness that the great isn't allowed to have an off night. What it does mean to me, is that using one game to justify a position is foolish. And when some who only want to comment when someone has a very bad game but not when there are any positives is just having a pre judged bias.
So again I will say it AGAIN. The game Baker had was inexcusable. The game Rodgers had was an outlier. Rodgers has EARNED the benefit of having a game like that and Baker has not. Baker is WAY more inclined to have it repeat again. Baker is not even close to even comparing to Rodgers. Baker has shown OVER HIS CAREER to be average AT BEST. But I am one who will not take his performance in one game and use that as his litmus test. And I won't use his next good performance (if he has one) to proclaim he has arrived and will then every week "wake up feeling dangerous".
Last word, it may be kind of telling that after originally posting, tiamat63 appwars to have understood the point I was making, and yet you refuse to and continue to push a narrative that I am somehow absolving Baker when that has been continuously shown to not be the case.
But you (who isn't one of the ones I was referring to) and the only Terrible Baker Poster club can have at it. I'm done.
Have a good one
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I'm not sure why you all are frying mayfield. He wasn't good today but his ribs are also fucked up and he's already on his second coach since being drafted. It's going to take time and if the Browns reset again it's going to take even longer. Is he worth his draft position? no, is he a bad qb? I don't think he is and he has the confidence to bounce back. The AFC north is a really tough division. You gotta give that guy some credit for trotting out there today, he was hurting.
I'm not sure why you all are frying mayfield. He wasn't good today but his ribs are also fucked up and he's already on his second coach since being drafted. It's going to take time and if the Browns reset again it's going to take even longer. Is he worth his draft position? no, is he a bad qb? I don't think he is and he has the confidence to bounce back. The AFC north is a really tough division. You gotta give that guy some credit for trotting out there today, he was hurting.
Vag the Magnanimous?
I'll take it... as you have a right to a different attytude...
Agree with your props to Baker for playing hurt, but my concerns go deeper. Somewhere along the line he's lost his edge... his fire... the chip on his shoulder.
I wrote this minutes ago in another thread in reply to OBJ leading a little sideline gathering...
Was good to see OBJ do that...
Problem was did you see Baker? He walked up late as if to see what was going on... stayed on the perimeter even leaning to look around other players.
It should should have been him leading this pep session... and two years ago it would have been. We know this because it was him...
This only amplifies my concerns over the lack of fire in his belly... where the chip on his shoulder went...
... the things that made him Baker "I'm gonna plant this flag on your 50" Mayfield.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Well this will make you sick. Washed up QB Ryan Tannehill during the 14 games he has started for the Tits before yesterday had 3 more TDs than Mahomes in that same time period and the same number of interceptions. He had over 3000 yds passing which was less than 70 from Mahomes' total. Now Mahomes has to match him tonight since Tannehill was 30 of 41 for 364 yd with 4 TDs and 1 INT with a win in OT. We coulda had him cheap when he left Miami. Dolphins traded Tannehill and a sixth-round selection in the 2019 draft to the Tits in exchange for a fourth-round selection in the 2020 draft and a seventh-round selection in the 2019 draft.
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One thing is for certain, good teams and good players are quick to put the inevitable bad game behind them and respond the following game.
Baker and the Browns go on the road, against their in-state division rival who is playing with reckless abandon.... Simply gotta have it.
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I'm not sure why you all are frying mayfield. He wasn't good today but his ribs are also fucked up and he's already on his second coach since being drafted. It's going to take time and if the Browns reset again it's going to take even longer. Is he worth his draft position? no, is he a bad qb? I don't think he is and he has the confidence to bounce back. The AFC north is a really tough division. You gotta give that guy some credit for trotting out there today, he was hurting.
Vag the Magnanimous?
I'll take it... as you have a right to a different attytude...
Agree with your props to Baker for playing hurt, but my concerns go deeper. Somewhere along the line he's lost his edge... his fire... the chip on his shoulder.
I wrote this minutes ago in another thread in reply to OBJ leading a little sideline gathering...
Was good to see OBJ do that...
Problem was did you see Baker? He walked up late as if to see what was going on... stayed on the perimeter even leaning to look around other players.
It should should have been him leading this pep session... and two years ago it would have been. We know this because it was him...
This only amplifies my concerns over the lack of fire in his belly... where the chip on his shoulder went...
... the things that made him Baker "I'm gonna plant this flag on your 50" Mayfield.
Vag the Magnanimous?
I'll take it... as you have a right to a different attytude...
Agree with your props to Baker for playing hurt, but my concerns go deeper. Somewhere along the line he's lost his edge... his fire... the chip on his shoulder.
I wrote this minutes ago in another thread in reply to OBJ leading a little sideline gathering...
This isn't going to be popular but ill say it... The antics Baker has shown previously - the flag plant, the slashing, the shit talk then silence into near cowering. That's shit fake tough guys do.
Some will read this and be mad, real ones will read it and go "damn, you're right"
It's easy to be loud when things are right or at minimum even. When they aren't? That's when bravado should give way to grit. Baker might not have the latter.
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