Baker Mayfield
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I'm not sure why you all are frying mayfield. He wasn't good today but his ribs are also fucked up and he's already on his second coach since being drafted. It's going to take time and if the Browns reset again it's going to take even longer. Is he worth his draft position? no, is he a bad qb? I don't think he is and he has the confidence to bounce back. The AFC north is a really tough division. You gotta give that guy some credit for trotting out there today, he was hurting.
I'm not sure why you all are frying mayfield. He wasn't good today but his ribs are also fucked up and he's already on his second coach since being drafted. It's going to take time and if the Browns reset again it's going to take even longer. Is he worth his draft position? no, is he a bad qb? I don't think he is and he has the confidence to bounce back. The AFC north is a really tough division. You gotta give that guy some credit for trotting out there today, he was hurting.
Correction: 4th coach. Jackson, Williams (intern), Kitchens, Stefanski.
I'm with you that Browns need stability and Stefanski seems like he's doing the best so far in getting it done. The problem with Baker is that no matter the coach, he still makes the same mistakes over and over. With the current roster, the Browns need a game manager QB, who throws for less than 200 yards and doesn't turn the ball.
Baker currently has some traits that I haven't seen improve in 3 years:- Pocket awareness/happy feet. He moves way too much and doesn't reset his stance before throwing. Brady looks like a robot but that is what has made him be the GOAT, only needs one step up in the pocket to avoid rushers, and a throwing technique from feet to shoulders perfected to the extreme. Meanwhile, Baker has even said he doesn't need a 'throwing coach' to improve his technique IIRC.
- Vision. Not only he usually sticks to the first read, but he also doesn't see wide open WR when he leaves what most of the times is a perfectly decent pocket. Yesterday's presnap and postsnap reads on Fitzpatrick are AWFUL. I know he is great, but I bet the Steelers' safety has had few easier INTs in his career. He was sitting there with a Martini waiting for the throw.
- Gunslinger. He has 39 INTs in 2 and a half seasons for a reason (35 games played). This is something that sometimes I believe he has improved, because I've seen him throwing the ball out of bounds, but many times he forces the play and puts too much into the ball, sails high and the DBs feast on that.
Most of those traits I think are linked to the mental aspect. This guy has some 'fire' in himself, which is a great trait for leadership. I bet that the players love him in the locker room. The problem is that he doesn't have the 'cold mind' needed for reading the defenses and playing under pressure.As a viewer, I feel like if Baker has to second guess (because his first read is covered, the pressure is getting to him, the pocket collapses and he has to move), then the play turns blurry and there the mistakes happen. And I think that is hard to overcome or change and you can't become a game manager if you don't have that.
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Baker was not my first pick...Josh Allen was. He reminded me of Testeverde, who was a bust until he had the right coaching. Mayfield is our QB, and I'm not ready to give up on him. He's never going to be Aaron Rodgers, but when he is playing with confidence, he can be more than adequate to win games. As for yesterday...he sucked. He should not have been playing...especially against the Squealers. Personally, I think his confidence was severely damaged last season, and he is still not fully recovered. He may never be the same player we saw at the end of 2018. I'm not trying to make excuses, but the team needs stability at the qb position. I think we have the right coach....even though he had a bad day yesterday, so I'm not ready to bench Mayfield in favor of Case Keenum...yet. However, with the injured ribs, I think I would have strongly considered starting Keenum yesterday.
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Baker was not my first pick...Josh Allen was. He reminded me of Testeverde, who was a bust until he had the right coaching. Mayfield is our QB, and I'm not ready to give up on him. He's never going to be Aaron Rodgers, but when he is playing with confidence, he can be more than adequate to win games. As for yesterday...he sucked. He should not have been playing...especially against the Squealers. Personally, I think his confidence was severely damaged last season, and he is still not fully recovered. He may never be the same player we saw at the end of 2018. I'm not trying to make excuses, but the team needs stability at the qb position. I think we have the right coach....even though he had a bad day yesterday, so I'm not ready to bench Mayfield in favor of Case Keenum...yet. However, with the injured ribs, I think I would have strongly considered starting Keenum yesterday.
Baker was not my first pick...Josh Allen was. He reminded me of Testeverde, who was a bust until he had the right coaching. Mayfield is our QB, and I'm not ready to give up on him. He's never going to be Aaron Rodgers, but when he is playing with confidence, he can be more than adequate to win games. As for yesterday...he sucked. He should not have been playing...especially against the Squealers. Personally, I think his confidence was severely damaged last season, and he is still not fully recovered. He may never be the same player we saw at the end of 2018. I'm not trying to make excuses, but the team needs stability at the qb position. I think we have the right coach....even though he had a bad day yesterday, so I'm not ready to bench Mayfield in favor of Case Keenum...yet. However, with the injured ribs, I think I would have strongly considered starting Keenum yesterday.
I agree with most of that, except it's easy to look in the rear view mirror & say they should have sat him due to injury.
I think Keenum would have met the same fate. The pitt front 7 just killed the Browns O line.
Karlis Missed -
No that isn't. At least to me
All your points are invalid because your points don't address what I double-secret-this-time-swear-intended to say but still haven't. Got it!
Socrates couldn't debate while drinking hemlock, therefore clearly Baker Mayfield is a great quarterback when the moon is in retrograde and I'll leave this forum if anyone debates me on this while holding a left-handed smokeshifter!
All your points are invalid because your points don't address what I double-secret-this-time-swear-intended to say but still haven't. Got it!
Socrates couldn't debate while drinking hemlock, therefore clearly Baker Mayfield is a great quarterback when the moon is in retrograde and I'll leave this forum if anyone debates me on this while holding a left-handed smokeshifter!
Umm ok??? I have no clue what you are talking about.
But I think the issue here is that you and I have a different view on criticism.
You see, silly ole me thinks saying how Terrible Baker was is CRITICISM. But I guess that its not. And of course that (as well as other things like it) was in my original post.
To me, deflecting criticism is "Baker was off BECAUSE of something outside of his control." When I used Facts/Stats to show Rodgers had a similar story THAT DAY, that isn't taking criticism off Baker, not giving Rodgers more, not comparing the CAREERS of the two COMPLETE opposites. If you can't comprehend that, then I can't help you because we just have a fundamental difference in interpretation.
I will just leave it at that. I feel no need to continue on with the useless back and forth with you over trivial things.
Peace out, have a good day and God Bless
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All your points are invalid because your points don't address what I double-secret-this-time-swear-intended to say but still haven't. Got it!
Socrates couldn't debate while drinking hemlock, therefore clearly Baker Mayfield is a great quarterback when the moon is in retrograde and I'll leave this forum if anyone debates me on this while holding a left-handed smokeshifter!
Umm ok??? I have no clue what you are talking about.
But I think the issue here is that you and I have a different view on criticism.
You see, silly ole me thinks saying how Terrible Baker was is CRITICISM. But I guess that its not. And of course that (as well as other things like it) was in my original post.
To me, deflecting criticism is "Baker was off BECAUSE of something outside of his control." When I used Facts/Stats to show Rodgers had a similar story THAT DAY, that isn't taking criticism off Baker, not giving Rodgers more, not comparing the CAREERS of the two COMPLETE opposites. If you can't comprehend that, then I can't help you because we just have a fundamental difference in interpretation.
I will just leave it at that. I feel no need to continue on with the useless back and forth with you over trivial things.
Peace out, have a good day and God Bless
When I used Facts/Stats to show Rodgers had a similar story THAT DAY, that isn't taking criticism off Baker, not giving Rodgers more, not comparing the CAREERS of the two COMPLETE opposites. If you can't comprehend that
Rodgers didn't have a good day yesterday for whatever reasons. He's had 184 starts.. and most of Rodgers' average-to-bad days are better than Baker's best day.
In year 3 we're still waiting for Baker to have two good days in a row.
Because of his years of consistently excellent play, Rodgers has earned the right to be lazy with his feet or his eyes [I don't know what specifically happened yesterday] and not have his starting role questioned. BAKER HAS NOT. Rodgers won the SB his 3rd full season starting.
There is no "comparison" between the two - and you clearly can't comprehend that.
But please keep on saying how you're not trying to apologize for Baker.
This whole thread, you've been pushing the notion that "See, Rodgers Had A Bad Day So Give Baker A Pass Too" -- which is apologizing for Baker. You've of course conveniently not confronted the reality that for the Rodgers example to be relevant, Baker would first have to be equal to Rodgers. Being a professional means you're only as good as your last deliverable -- and Baker's deliverables aren't great. LeBron has stopped dunking in the regular season because after 17 seasons he has earned the right to save himself for playoffs.. but if a rookie tried that, he'd get sent to the D-league.
Sunday's performance is Baker's average.. it's an outlier for Rodgers.
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
I'm not sure why you all are frying mayfield. He wasn't good today but his ribs are also fucked up and he's already on his second coach since being drafted. It's going to take time and if the Browns reset again it's going to take even longer. Is he worth his draft position? no, is he a bad qb? I don't think he is and he has the confidence to bounce back. The AFC north is a really tough division. You gotta give that guy some credit for trotting out there today, he was hurting.
I'm not sure why you all are frying mayfield. He wasn't good today but his ribs are also fucked up and he's already on his second coach since being drafted. It's going to take time and if the Browns reset again it's going to take even longer. Is he worth his draft position? no, is he a bad qb? I don't think he is and he has the confidence to bounce back. The AFC north is a really tough division. You gotta give that guy some credit for trotting out there today, he was hurting.
I hope you are correct!!
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When I used Facts/Stats to show Rodgers had a similar story THAT DAY, that isn't taking criticism off Baker, not giving Rodgers more, not comparing the CAREERS of the two COMPLETE opposites. If you can't comprehend that
Rodgers didn't have a good day yesterday for whatever reasons. He's had 184 starts.. and most of Rodgers' average-to-bad days are better than Baker's best day.
In year 3 we're still waiting for Baker to have two good days in a row.
Because of his years of consistently excellent play, Rodgers has earned the right to be lazy with his feet or his eyes [I don't know what specifically happened yesterday] and not have his starting role questioned. BAKER HAS NOT. Rodgers won the SB his 3rd full season starting.
There is no "comparison" between the two - and you clearly can't comprehend that.
But please keep on saying how you're not trying to apologize for Baker.
This whole thread, you've been pushing the notion that "See, Rodgers Had A Bad Day So Give Baker A Pass Too" -- which is apologizing for Baker. You've of course conveniently not confronted the reality that for the Rodgers example to be relevant, Baker would first have to be equal to Rodgers. Being a professional means you're only as good as your last deliverable -- and Baker's deliverables aren't great. LeBron has stopped dunking in the regular season because after 17 seasons he has earned the right to save himself for playoffs.. but if a rookie tried that, he'd get sent to the D-league.
Sunday's performance is Baker's average.. it's an outlier for Rodgers.
Rodgers didn't have a good day yesterday for whatever reasons. He's had 184 starts.. and most of Rodgers' average-to-bad days are better than Baker's best day.
In year 3 we're still waiting for Baker to have two good days in a row.
Because of his years of consistently excellent play, Rodgers has earned the right to be lazy with his feet or his eyes [I don't know what specifically happened yesterday] and not have his starting role questioned. BAKER HAS NOT. Rodgers won the SB his 3rd full season starting.
There is no "comparison" between the two - and you clearly can't comprehend that.
But please keep on saying how you're not trying to apologize for Baker.
This whole thread, you've been pushing the notion that "See, Rodgers Had A Bad Day So Give Baker A Pass Too" -- which is apologizing for Baker. You've of course conveniently not confronted the reality that for the Rodgers example to be relevant, Baker would first have to be equal to Rodgers. Being a professional means you're only as good as your last deliverable -- and Baker's deliverables aren't great. LeBron has stopped dunking in the regular season because after 17 seasons he has earned the right to save himself for playoffs.. but if a rookie tried that, he'd get sent to the D-league.
Sunday's performance is Baker's average.. it's an outlier for Rodgers.
No, you don't get your own facts to back up your assertions.
Nobody compared their careers. I simply pointed out that BOTH had Terrible days. And yes one has earned that right and the other has not. There is NO ARGUMENT there.
But I will spell it out even clearer/slower for you. BAKER MAYFIELD WAS HORRENDOUS YESTERDAY AND DESERVES NO PASS. BUT, for the posters who ONLY show up when Baker has a putrid game and use THAT GAME to justify just how incredibly bad he is to justify everything wrong with him is disingenuous.
Again, you are confusing pointing out that it does happen to others as deflecting criticism/apologizing when the two AREN'T connected.
The reason in the same thread I said that IF BM were to turn around and throw for 500 and 6 TDs against Cincinnati thst doesn't mean he has suddenly make some miraculous turn is because its an outlier. But we can leave Rodgers out of this now, as he was ONLY used to show to those who ONLY post about Baker in his worst moments that it can happen to someone who is WAY OUT OF BAKERS LEAGUE.
Now, without you trying to accuse me of deflecting criticism again, do you think that yesterday was synonymous of what Baker is as a whole? Or was he worse than usual? And how do you explain his play before the Steelers game (4-1)? Again not an excuse/deflecting/etc., but its almost as if you play weaker competition you play better, and better competition you play worse.
And while I understand and agree with your premise, if you want to hang on every word I wrote then why shouldn't you be held to the same standard? Saying as a professional you're only as good..., but you don't use that for another professional.
And as for LeBron, i don't think you understood the parallels. Sure, he has earned the right to save himself for the playoffs and a rookie hasn't. But that has NOTHING to do with what I said. That is you trying to shift an argument to fit your narrative. So again, lets use him.
I won't use actual game stats, just a fictional one.
LBJ: 5-21 FG, 5 Reb, 4 Ass. and 8 TOs
London Ball: 3-19, 4 REB., 4 Ass. 8 TOs
Now, if I were someone who liked the Pelicans and got on their site to blast Ball and call for his head, post after post, but didn't post when the Pels had done well the last few weeks, but wanted to use THIS GAME as a barometer for what he is, when one of the all.time great players has an extremely similar game that night, it just shows that no matter what level of player (great/average/barely in the league) it can happen. It doesn't mean that the 2 are even comparable, it doesn't mean that the game Ball had was in any way excusable, and doesn't mean that after the entire career of greatness that the great isn't allowed to have an off night. What it does mean to me, is that using one game to justify a position is foolish. And when some who only want to comment when someone has a very bad game but not when there are any positives is just having a pre judged bias.
So again I will say it AGAIN. The game Baker had was inexcusable. The game Rodgers had was an outlier. Rodgers has EARNED the benefit of having a game like that and Baker has not. Baker is WAY more inclined to have it repeat again. Baker is not even close to even comparing to Rodgers. Baker has shown OVER HIS CAREER to be average AT BEST. But I am one who will not take his performance in one game and use that as his litmus test. And I won't use his next good performance (if he has one) to proclaim he has arrived and will then every week "wake up feeling dangerous".
Last word, it may be kind of telling that after originally posting, tiamat63 appwars to have understood the point I was making, and yet you refuse to and continue to push a narrative that I am somehow absolving Baker when that has been continuously shown to not be the case.
But you (who isn't one of the ones I was referring to) and the only Terrible Baker Poster club can have at it. I'm done.
Have a good one
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I'm not sure why you all are frying mayfield. He wasn't good today but his ribs are also fucked up and he's already on his second coach since being drafted. It's going to take time and if the Browns reset again it's going to take even longer. Is he worth his draft position? no, is he a bad qb? I don't think he is and he has the confidence to bounce back. The AFC north is a really tough division. You gotta give that guy some credit for trotting out there today, he was hurting.
I'm not sure why you all are frying mayfield. He wasn't good today but his ribs are also fucked up and he's already on his second coach since being drafted. It's going to take time and if the Browns reset again it's going to take even longer. Is he worth his draft position? no, is he a bad qb? I don't think he is and he has the confidence to bounce back. The AFC north is a really tough division. You gotta give that guy some credit for trotting out there today, he was hurting.
Vag the Magnanimous?
I'll take it... as you have a right to a different attytude...
Agree with your props to Baker for playing hurt, but my concerns go deeper. Somewhere along the line he's lost his edge... his fire... the chip on his shoulder.
I wrote this minutes ago in another thread in reply to OBJ leading a little sideline gathering...
Was good to see OBJ do that...
Problem was did you see Baker? He walked up late as if to see what was going on... stayed on the perimeter even leaning to look around other players.
It should should have been him leading this pep session... and two years ago it would have been. We know this because it was him...
This only amplifies my concerns over the lack of fire in his belly... where the chip on his shoulder went...
... the things that made him Baker "I'm gonna plant this flag on your 50" Mayfield.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Well this will make you sick. Washed up QB Ryan Tannehill during the 14 games he has started for the Tits before yesterday had 3 more TDs than Mahomes in that same time period and the same number of interceptions. He had over 3000 yds passing which was less than 70 from Mahomes' total. Now Mahomes has to match him tonight since Tannehill was 30 of 41 for 364 yd with 4 TDs and 1 INT with a win in OT. We coulda had him cheap when he left Miami. Dolphins traded Tannehill and a sixth-round selection in the 2019 draft to the Tits in exchange for a fourth-round selection in the 2020 draft and a seventh-round selection in the 2019 draft.
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One thing is for certain, good teams and good players are quick to put the inevitable bad game behind them and respond the following game.
Baker and the Browns go on the road, against their in-state division rival who is playing with reckless abandon.... Simply gotta have it.
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I'm not sure why you all are frying mayfield. He wasn't good today but his ribs are also fucked up and he's already on his second coach since being drafted. It's going to take time and if the Browns reset again it's going to take even longer. Is he worth his draft position? no, is he a bad qb? I don't think he is and he has the confidence to bounce back. The AFC north is a really tough division. You gotta give that guy some credit for trotting out there today, he was hurting.
Vag the Magnanimous?
I'll take it... as you have a right to a different attytude...
Agree with your props to Baker for playing hurt, but my concerns go deeper. Somewhere along the line he's lost his edge... his fire... the chip on his shoulder.
I wrote this minutes ago in another thread in reply to OBJ leading a little sideline gathering...
Was good to see OBJ do that...
Problem was did you see Baker? He walked up late as if to see what was going on... stayed on the perimeter even leaning to look around other players.
It should should have been him leading this pep session... and two years ago it would have been. We know this because it was him...
This only amplifies my concerns over the lack of fire in his belly... where the chip on his shoulder went...
... the things that made him Baker "I'm gonna plant this flag on your 50" Mayfield.
Vag the Magnanimous?
I'll take it... as you have a right to a different attytude...
Agree with your props to Baker for playing hurt, but my concerns go deeper. Somewhere along the line he's lost his edge... his fire... the chip on his shoulder.
I wrote this minutes ago in another thread in reply to OBJ leading a little sideline gathering...
This isn't going to be popular but ill say it... The antics Baker has shown previously - the flag plant, the slashing, the shit talk then silence into near cowering. That's shit fake tough guys do.
Some will read this and be mad, real ones will read it and go "damn, you're right"
It's easy to be loud when things are right or at minimum even. When they aren't? That's when bravado should give way to grit. Baker might not have the latter.
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Vag the Magnanimous?
I'll take it... as you have a right to a different attytude...
Agree with your props to Baker for playing hurt, but my concerns go deeper. Somewhere along the line he's lost his edge... his fire... the chip on his shoulder.
I wrote this minutes ago in another thread in reply to OBJ leading a little sideline gathering...
This isn't going to be popular but ill say it... The antics Baker has shown previously - the flag plant, the slashing, the shit talk then silence into near cowering. That's shit fake tough guys do.
Some will read this and be mad, real ones will read it and go "damn, you're right"
It's easy to be loud when things are right or at minimum even. When they aren't? That's when bravado should give way to grit. Baker might not have the latter.
This isn't going to be popular but ill say it... The antics Baker has shown previously - the flag plant, the slashing, the shit talk then silence into near cowering. That's shit fake tough guys do.
Some will read this and be mad, real ones will read it and go "damn, you're right"
Sweet! I'm a real one after all. Pretty much how I feel too, as if you have to say or show it, then you aren't.
^ I have never liked that about him, or in any other player.... simply not my style.
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Vag the Magnanimous?
I'll take it... as you have a right to a different attytude...
Agree with your props to Baker for playing hurt, but my concerns go deeper. Somewhere along the line he's lost his edge... his fire... the chip on his shoulder.
I wrote this minutes ago in another thread in reply to OBJ leading a little sideline gathering...
This isn't going to be popular but ill say it... The antics Baker has shown previously - the flag plant, the slashing, the shit talk then silence into near cowering. That's shit fake tough guys do.
Some will read this and be mad, real ones will read it and go "damn, you're right"
It's easy to be loud when things are right or at minimum even. When they aren't? That's when bravado should give way to grit. Baker might not have the latter.
This isn't going to be popular but ill say it... The antics Baker has shown previously - the flag plant, the slashing, the shit talk then silence into near cowering. That's shit fake tough guys do.
Some will read this and be mad, real ones will read it and go "damn, you're right"
It's easy to be loud when things are right or at minimum even. When they aren't? That's when bravado should give way to grit. Baker might not have the latter.
Sweet! I'm a real one after all. Pretty much how I feel too, as if you have to say or show it, then you aren't.
^ I have never liked that about him, or in any other player.... simply not my style.
I think some of us have commented on that earlier. I've many times stated that he should keep quiet from the media, stop doing commercials and focus on his play instead of the rah-rah, because this is not College anymore.
Let your play speak for yourself. -
Baker was not my first pick...Josh Allen was. He reminded me of Testeverde, who was a bust until he had the right coaching. Mayfield is our QB, and I'm not ready to give up on him. He's never going to be Aaron Rodgers, but when he is playing with confidence, he can be more than adequate to win games. As for yesterday...he sucked. He should not have been playing...especially against the Squealers. Personally, I think his confidence was severely damaged last season, and he is still not fully recovered. He may never be the same player we saw at the end of 2018. I'm not trying to make excuses, but the team needs stability at the qb position. I think we have the right coach....even though he had a bad day yesterday, so I'm not ready to bench Mayfield in favor of Case Keenum...yet. However, with the injured ribs, I think I would have strongly considered starting Keenum yesterday.
I agree with most of that, except it's easy to look in the rear view mirror & say they should have sat him due to injury.
I think Keenum would have met the same fate. The pitt front 7 just killed the Browns O line.
I agree with most of that, except it's easy to look in the rear view mirror & say they should have sat him due to injury.
I think Keenum would have met the same fate. The pitt front 7 just killed the Browns O line.
No doubt.....starting Keenum would not have changed the outcome. Bottom line...it doesn't matter if it's Brady, Brees, Mahomes, etc.....when the opponent's defense can put that kind of pressure on the qb, there;s no passing game.
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One thing is for certain, good teams and good players are quick to put the inevitable bad game behind them and respond the following game.
Baker and the Browns go on the road, against their in-state division rival who is playing with reckless abandon.... Simply gotta have it.
One thing is for certain, good teams and good players are quick to put the inevitable bad game behind them and respond the following game.
Baker and the Browns go on the road, against their in-state division rival who is playing with reckless abandon.... Simply gotta have it.
Yep!!!
Dont let this one roll over to the next. We could really use the next two actually. Have to put this one behind quickly.
The ribs were obviously not well.
Although The INTS were bad and were more mental than physical.
The First one was awful. Sunday morning I was watching a film breakdown on ESPN of our matchup prior to our game. A good point was brought up and to summarize it -Baker becomes a spazz at times and doesn’t read the field at all. That was definitely a spazz moment. He has the cool comments and seemingly can think on his toes in other aspects but it changes with pass rushers bearing down on him. Is he a one read QB like the general consensus seems to indicate? Maybe.The Good ones (A. Rodgers, Mahomes) elude pressure and can keep their eyes downfield on targets. Baker hasn’t been able to elude while reading coverage and making throws as well.
The second INT was not good (I’m not going to put it in the awful basket) he tried to force a play the same kind of play he’s made the past couple weeks. That’s the good/bad you get with him. The first INT you gotta change that.
If you go back to Okie tape- he’s winning because of play design he didn’t possess NFL accuracy then. Lincoln Riley was/is a play design savant. They had Lamb and Co. running routes 10 yards free of coverage. Baker doesn’t consistently possess NFL accuracy now. His last college game against Georgia you saw a good defensive minded coach (minus Saturday) expose his accuracy and Baker’s inability to elude pressure wile reading defenses and making throws into coverage. But Every now and then you get teased with the Ohio St. 2017 game.
He hasn’t fooled anyone he’s gotten better with experience but he’s still a work in progress. His confidence is unwavering. So he will climb back up next week and have more positive than negative plays.
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for the browns to take the next step. The next step being rising to the top of the division, or at least alongside the top of the division with the steelers and Ravens. Right now the steelers and the ravens rightfully consider themselves rivals to each other and measure their success against each other. We are not part of that equation right now, and the steelers do not consider us relevant or a rival to them. The question is can they get there, and how do they get to that point.
So let's start with one key point- This is a passing league, has been for a long time, and the only way a team is going to get to the top of the mountain is with an uber efficient and successful passing game and/or an atypical running game(like Baltimore has founded on the qb running) which complements a successful passing attack(like Baltimore has). A team isn't going to have traditional running back handoffs as a foundation of offensive success in 2020, so let's throw that nonsense out right now.
So given that the browns have to throw the ball a bunch successfully to be successful against upper end competition, how do they get there? The reality is baker just has to play better.....but the browns could help him by using fewer 1st and 2nd down plays to run the ball.
In a hypothetical situation where a team has the league's worst qb, marginal recievers, and the league's best traditional running game(again to remove a team like baltimore from the equation).....throwing the football on first and second down is *still* going to be more efficient than running the ball. That's just the way it is. The likely 'break even point* for when running the ball on 1st and 2nd down equals the efficiency of the passing game would likely be 7.4-7.5 yards per carry when you consider the downsides of running(more holding penalties, fewer chunk plays leading directly to points) against the positives(eliminating the interception risk). Obviously no team is going to average 7 and a half yards per carry, but the other side of this is the browns don't have the league's worst qbs and certainly don't have marginal recievers.
So if the browns are going to take the next step, they are going to do so throwing the football a lot better than they are doing now.
One way to increase the odds of doing that is fewer runs on 1st and 2nd down.....time and time again when baker struggles and the browns get thumped, when you go back and look at the game log on offense we see handoffs to the running backs which set up 2nd and 3rd and log. Converting more of those less efficient runs into first and second down play action passing is going to put Baker in a better situation....
and remember, running the football successfully *DOES NOT* set up play action pass. This has been disproven in that we now know that play action passing is successful completely independently of running the football.
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I agree with most of that, except it's easy to look in the rear view mirror & say they should have sat him due to injury.
I think Keenum would have met the same fate. The pitt front 7 just killed the Browns O line.
No doubt.....starting Keenum would not have changed the outcome. Bottom line...it doesn't matter if it's Brady, Brees, Mahomes, etc.....when the opponent's defense can put that kind of pressure on the qb, there;s no passing game.
No doubt.....starting Keenum would not have changed the outcome. Bottom line...it doesn't matter if it's Brady, Brees, Mahomes, etc.....when the opponent's defense can put that kind of pressure on the qb, there;s no passing game.
Hey, did Baker have a terrible game? Hell yes. What the boo birds are forgetting is the entire offense had a terrible game. OL? Pass blocking stunk. Run blocking stunk. 4th and 1 is straight mano a mano, and our o- line got destroyed every time. From what I saw the WRs weren't getting open either, and Baker wasn't getting enough time to find them. 3\22 clean pockets. MHO based on our general ineptitude Sunday, Tom Brady in his prime would have fared little better.
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