Baker Mayfield
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He's very good at some things and not so good at others, so I guess that means, yes he is
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Baker's team is 5-3 and would be in the playoffs, much of which is based on an offense that he is the leader of.
That is all I need to know.
Baker's team is 5-3 and would be in the playoffs, much of which is based on an offense that he is the leader of.
That is all I need to know.
That's because our schedule has been softer than mammie's titties so far. The only two elite teams we've played so far - the Ravens and the Steelers - have blown us out of the fucking water.
I can give Baker a pass for being saddled with clueless hue and freddie his first few years, and the 'rona this year, but the dude definitely needs to step it up against the good teams in this league if he wants to keep his job.
"That which can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence”. - Christopher Hitchens "The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you". - Neil deGrasse Tyson -
Guess it depends on how you want to look at it. This team just made the statement they are more worried about the future than they are this year buy doing nothing to fix the defense, so if you break down the top ten, personally there are only 3 QB’s on that list that I would swap for Baker right now...
Mahomes, Watson and Wilson
obviously if you turn back the clock or change team strategy to win now, you’d add in
Brady, Rodgers and Brees
But those guys could be a year or major injury away from being retired.
Carr and Tannehill are a pass, and Allen has some moments but has the accuracy of a knuckle ball in the wind....
Herbert would be a push based on his 5 game career so far.
If you expand out on the next 10, based on the same criteria I’d probably swap Baker for Ryan and probably Dak but I’d have to think pretty hard. Stafford.... meh I don’t know....I’d probably pass.
then the rest of the way out you have guys like Lamar and Murray who kind of have to have a offense tailored to their play style, so I guess it depends with those kind of guys, I have friends that love that kind of play and others that can’t stand it, (I’d hate to have a running type QB and have to hold your breath when he takes hits game after game and their shelf life is questionable)
After that I’d say Burrow is the last candidate, who some are super high on, but throws 45+ times a game and has 11 TD’s all season.... 6 against Cleveland’s “Defense”... Baker haters say hell ya give me Burrow, I haven’t seen enough yet, so I’d say push.
you wanna win right now? Then turn that list on its ear and go for a high powered Vet.
If I were Berry, I’d extend the contract, build my team for two more years, see what he ends up looking like make a call in his 5th year to trade or resign.
Going off that list of swaps and maybes, that puts Baker at about 12-15 QB in the league. I’d say average to above average is a good estimate.Considering the Browns usual “shit sandwich to soggy shit sandwich” QB play....
Guess it depends on how you want to look at it. This team just made the statement they are more worried about the future than they are this year buy doing nothing to fix the defense, so if you break down the top ten, personally there are only 3 QB’s on that list that I would swap for Baker right now...
Mahomes, Watson and Wilson
obviously if you turn back the clock or change team strategy to win now, you’d add in
Brady, Rodgers and Brees
But those guys could be a year or major injury away from being retired.
Carr and Tannehill are a pass, and Allen has some moments but has the accuracy of a knuckle ball in the wind....
Herbert would be a push based on his 5 game career so far.
If you expand out on the next 10, based on the same criteria I’d probably swap Baker for Ryan and probably Dak but I’d have to think pretty hard. Stafford.... meh I don’t know....I’d probably pass.
then the rest of the way out you have guys like Lamar and Murray how kind of have to have a offense tailored to their play style, so I guess it depends with those kind of guys, I have friends that love that kind of play and others that can’t stand it, (I’d hate to have a running type QB and have to hold your breath when he takes hits game after game and their shelf life is questionable)
After that I’d say Burrow is the last candidate, who some are super high on, but throws 45+ times a game and has 11 TD’s all season.... 6 against Cleveland’s “Defense”... Baker haters say hell ya give me Burrow, I haven’t seen enough yet, so I’d say push.
you wanna win right now? Then turn that list on its ear and go for a high powered Vet.
If I were Berry, I’d extend the contract, build my team for two more years, see what he ends up looking like make a call in his 5th year to trade or resign.
Going off that list of swaps and maybes, that puts Baker at about 12-15 QB in the league. I’d say average to above average is a good estimate.Considering the Browns usual “shit sandwichto soggy shit sandwich” QB play....
I don't think you're inherently wrong in your thinking, just that I'd have more than 3 QBs ahead of Baker, even considering long term impact (i.e. QBs too old to help 5 years from now). For one, if you are considering things in that "lense," you may have to consider the QBs still in college as well, such as Lawrence. It's just that I still can't help to think that they will need better QB play to have a real shot at rings. And I don't know if Baker is ever going to achieve "franchise QB" status, which you usually need. And when you take a player first overall in the draft, you likely would want that player to be best at his position by 3 years in, or at least top 3. I think we can all agree with that.
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Baker's team is 5-3 and would be in the playoffs, much of which is based on an offense that he is the leader of.
That is all I need to know.
Yea, that would be all you need to know, in your current capacity. "Just be good enough to hover slightly over .500" and you will be content with that. I wonder if rings are a possibility with standards set there? The Pats and the Steelers didn't win 6 rings with such a mentality.
But I will say this: 5-3 sure as hell beats the crap out of 0-8 (on the way to 0-16 or 1-15). Don't get it twisted.
Yea, that would be all you need to know, in your current capacity. "Just be good enough to hover slightly over .500" and you will be content with that. I wonder if rings are a possibility with standards set there? The Pats and the Steelers didn't win 6 rings with such a mentality.
But I will say this: 5-3 sure as hell beats the crap out of 0-8 (on the way to 0-16 or 1-15). Don't get it twisted.
With every tap of the keys you show yourself to be a complete mental midget when it comes to football .
1. My "capacity" is that of a fan of the Browns. Same capacity as anyone on this board.
2. The Browns have not been to the playoffs since 2002.
3. A 5-3 record puts this team into the playoffs, at least in the playoff position. Getting into the playoffs is the first step to continued playoff competitiveness.
4. You want your TEAM in playoff position, do you not? If there is a reason that this team is not in better playoff position, it is because of some of the horrendous defense this team plays, and not really the QB play.
5. It does not matter one fucking bit if your QB is great, average or otherwise.....as long as the team has success.
6. No one can tell if a QB is going to be "great" right off the bat necessarily. A guy considered perhaps the best QB in the game did not even play his first 3 years...Aaron Rodgers.
The Cleveland Browns are in playoff position and are being led there by Baker Mayfield. That is all I, you , or anyone needs to know.
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Baker's team is 5-3 and would be in the playoffs, much of which is based on an offense that he is the leader of.
That is all I need to know.
That's because our schedule has been softer than mammie's titties so far. The only two elite teams we've played so far - the Ravens and the Steelers - have blown us out of the fucking water.
I can give Baker a pass for being saddled with clueless hue and freddie his first few years, and the 'rona this year, but the dude definitely needs to step it up against the good teams in this league if he wants to keep his job.
That's because our schedule has been softer than mammie's titties so far. The only two elite teams we've played so far - the Ravens and the Steelers - have blown us out of the fucking water.
I can give Baker a pass for being saddled with clueless hue and freddie his first few years, and the 'rona this year, but the dude definitely needs to step it up against the good teams in this league if he wants to keep his job.
So what? Other teams in this division have had the same equally soft schedule.
This team needs to learn how to win, yes. This team needs to improve the talent on its roster, yes. Getting into the playoffs is every team's goal...and who gives a cabbage fart on how they got there.
What he needs to do to keep his job? It is NOT necessarily beat what you think are elite teams: Keep this team in playoff contention, despite having one of the worst defenses in the league...that is is job.
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By definition, to be average Baker would be somewhere around the 15th or 16th best QB in the NFL. Do you think he is?
Let's look. By the ratings (and I realize you can argue the ratings alone doesn't always tell the full story but it's a good start)...
R. Wilson
Mahomes
Rogers
Carr
Tannehill
D. Watson
Brees
Herbert
Brady
J. Allen
Big Ben
Dak
Kyle Allen
Bridgewater
N. Mullens
M. Ryan
Rivers
Fitzpatrick
Stafford
Goff
Minshew
L. Jackson
K. Murray
Jimmy G
Cousins
Burrow
Baker
Tua
Kaskins
Foles
Driskel
Tyrod Taylor
Dan Jones
Cam Newton
Wentz
That puts him at 27, which is far below average. And looking at the order of the list, it passes my eye test as far as being accurate in determining quality of play. I'd move a few up or down a few spots, but it's pretty on the $.
So even if you can argue Baker maybe a few spots better, he's still around the 25th best or so. Is that acceptable for the 1st pick overall in the draft halfway through his 3rd season? If the Browns were told,"By his 3rd season, Baker will be the 27th rated passer" would they have taken him #1 overall?
Of course, I am in no way suggesting now would be the time for a change, no way. He gets at least this season to show what he has got, barring him just falling of a cliff, especially considering we have to see of the passing game blossoms without forcing it to OBJ so often. (But others say the passing attack will suffer sans OBJ.) The 2nd half of this season is huge in determining Baker's future. As things stand, his last year option is probably safe, but if he doesn't ascend from where he is now, a big, new franchise QB deal is not likely. Baker, it's time. You are at a crossroad.
By definition, to be average Baker would be somewhere around the 15th or 16th best QB in the NFL.
Not to go all stat-guy on you, but "average" doesn't mean that at all. What you have defined is the median performance, the performance level at which there are as many superior performers as there are inferior ones.
Now in a normal distribution the mean (a/k/a average), median and mode (the level with the highest count) all coincide,.
But this is the NFL. Where the best players land after being distilled thru thousands of High Schools and then redistilled thru hundreds of Colleges. Their distribution is going to be anything but "normal". It will be heavily skewed towards the top end.
Rather than try to rank 30+ NFL QBs in order (no one can be that discerning or objective), try creating buckets of roughly similar performers. This is kinda what hx did in developing his list of those he take over Baker, although I don't think that his approach really answers your question. Brady may not be the QB you'd want to bank on for the decade, but today he is definitely above average.
I may take a crack at it later, but right now I still see Baker's QB proficiency as being in flux... or TBD.
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I think he would have had a pretty special year of OBJ wasn't hurt. I predicted around 27 tds and 14 picks for him, and that would be better than anything we've ever seen. Is that average? Tough to say. Compared to Mahomes? Yeah, of course. Compared to the shit we had to endure? No, he's all universe.
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Mahomes is clearly something special... run as well as pass. And he runs smart to boot. Plus his improv skills are off the chart.
That said... the talent that is around him at the skill positions is special as well... Kelsey, Hill, Sammie (when healthy)... a stable of good RBs... and even a decent OL now. Then atop it all sits Reid, who remains one of the top HCs in the league and is still a helluva OC. The D is good enough to take advantage of opponents rendered one-dimensional by the Offensive output... much as ours has been in games where our O lights up the scoreboard.
The day will come when we will see if Patrick can elevate lessers around him, but that's gonna be a while.
Mahomes and Wilson are top of my heap...
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By definition, to be average Baker would be somewhere around the 15th or 16th best QB in the NFL.
Not to go all stat-guy on you, but "average" doesn't mean that at all. What you have defined is the median performance, the performance level at which there are as many superior performers as there are inferior ones.
Now in a normal distribution the mean (a/k/a average), median and mode (the level with the highest count) all coincide,.
But this is the NFL. Where the best players land after being distilled thru thousands of High Schools and then redistilled thru hundreds of Colleges. Their distribution is going to be anything but "normal". It will be heavily skewed towards the top end.
Rather than try to rank 30+ NFL QBs in order (no one can be that discerning or objective), try creating buckets of roughly similar performers. This is kinda what hx did in developing his list of those he take over Baker, although I don't think that his approach really answers your question. Brady may not be the QB you'd want to bank on for the decade, but today he is definitely above average.
I may take a crack at it later, but right now I still see Baker's QB proficiency as being in flux... or TBD.
Not to go all stat-guy on you, but "average" doesn't mean that at all. What you have defined is the median performance, the performance level at which there are as many superior performers as there are inferior ones.
Now in a normal distribution the mean (a/k/a average), median and mode (the level with the highest count) all coincide,.
But this is the NFL. Where the best players land after being distilled thru thousands of High Schools and then redistilled thru hundreds of Colleges. Their distribution is going to be anything but "normal". It will be heavily skewed towards the top end.
Rather than try to rank 30+ NFL QBs in order (no one can be that discerning or objective), try creating buckets of roughly similar performers. This is kinda what hx did in developing his list of those he take over Baker, although I don't think that his approach really answers your question. Brady may not be the QB you'd want to bank on for the decade, but today he is definitely above average.
I may take a crack at it later, but right now I still see Baker's QB proficiency as being in flux... or TBD.
Well, that all sounds great, now, is Baker average or above or below? He's below. That's not saying he's one of the worst, but #1 overall pick in the draft worthy?
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I think he would have had a pretty special year of OBJ wasn't hurt. I predicted around 27 tds and 14 picks for him, and that would be better than anything we've ever seen. Is that average? Tough to say. Compared to Mahomes? Yeah, of course. Compared to the shit we had to endure? No, he's all universe.
I think he would have had a pretty special year of OBJ wasn't hurt. I predicted around 27 tds and 14 picks for him, and that would be better than anything we've ever seen. Is that average? Tough to say. Compared to Mahomes? Yeah, of course. Compared to the shit we had to endure? No, he's all universe.
It's hard to put him above 16 other QBs. But the 2nd half of the season may tell a lot. But is he better than the QBs the last 20 years in Cleveland? I'd say so.
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Not to go all stat-guy on you, but "average" doesn't mean that at all. What you have defined is the median performance, the performance level at which there are as many superior performers as there are inferior ones.
Now in a normal distribution the mean (a/k/a average), median and mode (the level with the highest count) all coincide,.
But this is the NFL. Where the best players land after being distilled thru thousands of High Schools and then redistilled thru hundreds of Colleges. Their distribution is going to be anything but "normal". It will be heavily skewed towards the top end.
Rather than try to rank 30+ NFL QBs in order (no one can be that discerning or objective), try creating buckets of roughly similar performers. This is kinda what hx did in developing his list of those he take over Baker, although I don't think that his approach really answers your question. Brady may not be the QB you'd want to bank on for the decade, but today he is definitely above average.
I may take a crack at it later, but right now I still see Baker's QB proficiency as being in flux... or TBD.
Well, that all sounds great, now, is Baker average or above or below? He's below. That's not saying he's one of the worst, but #1 overall pick in the draft worthy?
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Acording to my info, Baker is well above average...
According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) , the average age-adjusted height for American men 20 years old and up is 69.1 inches (175.4 centimeters). That's about 5 feet 9 inches tall. This number comes from data published in December 2018.
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Acording to my info, Baker is well above average...
According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) , the average age-adjusted height for American men 20 years old and up is 69.1 inches (175.4 centimeters). That's about 5 feet 9 inches tall. This number comes from data published in December 2018.
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The more I think about it, the more I want him back and don't even want to consider anyone else. Who would we get? A rookie? A washed up veteran? No thank you. 4 coaches in 3 years...let's see what year 2 in the same system looks like. He can do it, I'd bet on it.
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His skill set does not look average... But his ability or lack thereof to read defenses so far is very average to this point... But guys like Steve young , Gary Ferguson and Steve Grogan have turn it on late in their careers.. So I think its too early to finish the book on him yet.. I'm all for giving him this season... It's not like were going to the SB..
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The more I think about it, the more I want him back and don't even want to consider anyone else. Who would we get? A rookie? A washed up veteran? No thank you. 4 coaches in 3 years...let's see what year 2 in the same system looks like. He can do it, I'd bet on it.
The more I think about it, the more I want him back and don't even want to consider anyone else. Who would we get? A rookie? A washed up veteran? No thank you. 4 coaches in 3 years...
This is what I keep coming back to.
Most likely you aren't drafting some one better than him in the lower part of the first round that you'll be in.
If you draft another QB you can't draft to improve other areas of the team.
He is better than available vets out there.
I know the one argument is "Well he was a number 1 overall..... so he isn't playing up to that" ...... each team only gets one pick in the first..... if they would have drafted him 10th through 15th would his play be acceptable? The 4 QB's taken in the first that year..... I still feel he is better than.
Sam got shafted getting put on a bad team in a bad organization but when I've seen him play I'm not saying.... "Man we could have had that guy!"
Josh Allan is pretty damn good at times, but other times he misses throws that look like that throw Baker had to Njoku to lead the game off in 40mph wind...
Rosen is taking it up the tailpipe somewhere in the backseat of his Tesla....
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If I had to break down the starting QBs around the league in to 3 groups, at least as of now, baker is a bottom 3rd QB.
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I’ve been critical of Baker. I thought our Player Caller and QB let us down last year the most.
And most of us pointed to the play caller and the offensive line. But Baker played poorly last season.
He has a few flaws. He needs to keep his eyes downfield when he’s moving around in the pocket. He needs to do a better job with his reads. Sometimes he unnecessarily hurries himself and his mechanics are off and his ball sails on him. He has also had some very good moments.
644286.8TDs. INTs. QB Rating.
RIGHT NOW I can’t put him bottom third but I think I could put him squarely in the middle. He’s developing definitely not a finished product
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I’ve been critical of Baker. I thought our Player Caller and QB let us down last year the most.
And most of us pointed to the play caller and the offensive line. But Baker played poorly last season.
He has a few flaws. He needs to keep his eyes downfield when he’s moving around in the pocket. He needs to do a better job with his reads. Sometimes he unnecessarily hurries himself and his mechanics are off and his ball sails on him. He has also had some very good moments.
644286.8TDs. INTs. QB Rating.
RIGHT NOW I can’t put him bottom third but I think I could put him squarely in the middle. He’s developing definitely not a finished product
I’ve been critical of Baker. I thought our Player Caller and QB let us down last year the most.
And most of us pointed to the play caller and the offensive line. But Baker played poorly last season.
He has a few flaws. He needs to keep his eyes downfield when he’s moving around in the pocket. He needs to do a better job with his reads. Sometimes he unnecessarily hurries himself and his mechanics are off and his ball sails on him. He has also had some very good moments.
644286.8TDs. INTs. QB Rating.
RIGHT NOW I can’t put him bottom third but I think I could put him squarely in the middle. He’s developing definitely not a finished product
Here's the thing. Everybody needs to look at Big Ben's numbers for his first few years. Then, think about what Baker would do if he EVER had a defense behind him. What would Baker look like playing for Pittsburgh? He'd be unstoppable.
Fix the defense, help Baker. Our defense resembles a gaggle of pusscakes with Myles and Denzel hanging out with them.
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It's funny you want to lean on "facts" when they don't support your position.
Other than Baker's height vs the average American male to this point what position have I taken?
The 2018 height data is the most recent I could find. Are you saying we have gotten significantly, as in more than 3" taller on average, in the past 2 years?
And, yes, the above is joking around...
Even the earlier Statistics 101 lesson was tongue-in-cheek... but even as such, I hoped it might take. It didn't.
Seriously?
This is an opinion thread. There is not universal agreement on what objective measure, e.g., QBR, W/L, TD:INT ratio, etc., we should use to rank QBs.
So there is no factual argument to be made... just posts of an opinion vs. "average" supported by an opinion of which factors are most important.
My opinion?
Baker is currently slightly above average with 2nd tier upside.
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