Baker Mayfield
-
By definition, to be average Baker would be somewhere around the 15th or 16th best QB in the NFL. Do you think he is?
Let's look. By the ratings (and I realize you can argue the ratings alone doesn't always tell the full story but it's a good start)...
R. Wilson
Mahomes
Rogers
Carr
Tannehill
D. Watson
Brees
Herbert
Brady
J. Allen
Big Ben
Dak
Kyle Allen
Bridgewater
N. Mullens
M. Ryan
Rivers
Fitzpatrick
Stafford
Goff
Minshew
L. Jackson
K. Murray
Jimmy G
Cousins
Burrow
Baker
Tua
Kaskins
Foles
Driskel
Tyrod Taylor
Dan Jones
Cam Newton
Wentz
That puts him at 27, which is far below average. And looking at the order of the list, it passes my eye test as far as being accurate in determining quality of play. I'd move a few up or down a few spots, but it's pretty on the $.
So even if you can argue Baker maybe a few spots better, he's still around the 25th best or so. Is that acceptable for the 1st pick overall in the draft halfway through his 3rd season? If the Browns were told,"By his 3rd season, Baker will be the 27th rated passer" would they have taken him #1 overall?
Of course, I am in no way suggesting now would be the time for a change, no way. He gets at least this season to show what he has got, barring him just falling of a cliff, especially considering we have to see of the passing game blossoms without forcing it to OBJ so often. (But others say the passing attack will suffer sans OBJ.) The 2nd half of this season is huge in determining Baker's future. As things stand, his last year option is probably safe, but if he doesn't ascend from where he is now, a big, new franchise QB deal is not likely. Baker, it's time. You are at a crossroad.
By definition, to be average Baker would be somewhere around the 15th or 16th best QB in the NFL.
Not to go all stat-guy on you, but "average" doesn't mean that at all. What you have defined is the median performance, the performance level at which there are as many superior performers as there are inferior ones.
Now in a normal distribution the mean (a/k/a average), median and mode (the level with the highest count) all coincide,.
But this is the NFL. Where the best players land after being distilled thru thousands of High Schools and then redistilled thru hundreds of Colleges. Their distribution is going to be anything but "normal". It will be heavily skewed towards the top end.
Rather than try to rank 30+ NFL QBs in order (no one can be that discerning or objective), try creating buckets of roughly similar performers. This is kinda what hx did in developing his list of those he take over Baker, although I don't think that his approach really answers your question. Brady may not be the QB you'd want to bank on for the decade, but today he is definitely above average.
I may take a crack at it later, but right now I still see Baker's QB proficiency as being in flux... or TBD.
-
I think he would have had a pretty special year of OBJ wasn't hurt. I predicted around 27 tds and 14 picks for him, and that would be better than anything we've ever seen. Is that average? Tough to say. Compared to Mahomes? Yeah, of course. Compared to the shit we had to endure? No, he's all universe.
-
Mahomes is clearly something special... run as well as pass. And he runs smart to boot. Plus his improv skills are off the chart.
That said... the talent that is around him at the skill positions is special as well... Kelsey, Hill, Sammie (when healthy)... a stable of good RBs... and even a decent OL now. Then atop it all sits Reid, who remains one of the top HCs in the league and is still a helluva OC. The D is good enough to take advantage of opponents rendered one-dimensional by the Offensive output... much as ours has been in games where our O lights up the scoreboard.
The day will come when we will see if Patrick can elevate lessers around him, but that's gonna be a while.
Mahomes and Wilson are top of my heap...
-
By definition, to be average Baker would be somewhere around the 15th or 16th best QB in the NFL.
Not to go all stat-guy on you, but "average" doesn't mean that at all. What you have defined is the median performance, the performance level at which there are as many superior performers as there are inferior ones.
Now in a normal distribution the mean (a/k/a average), median and mode (the level with the highest count) all coincide,.
But this is the NFL. Where the best players land after being distilled thru thousands of High Schools and then redistilled thru hundreds of Colleges. Their distribution is going to be anything but "normal". It will be heavily skewed towards the top end.
Rather than try to rank 30+ NFL QBs in order (no one can be that discerning or objective), try creating buckets of roughly similar performers. This is kinda what hx did in developing his list of those he take over Baker, although I don't think that his approach really answers your question. Brady may not be the QB you'd want to bank on for the decade, but today he is definitely above average.
I may take a crack at it later, but right now I still see Baker's QB proficiency as being in flux... or TBD.
Not to go all stat-guy on you, but "average" doesn't mean that at all. What you have defined is the median performance, the performance level at which there are as many superior performers as there are inferior ones.
Now in a normal distribution the mean (a/k/a average), median and mode (the level with the highest count) all coincide,.
But this is the NFL. Where the best players land after being distilled thru thousands of High Schools and then redistilled thru hundreds of Colleges. Their distribution is going to be anything but "normal". It will be heavily skewed towards the top end.
Rather than try to rank 30+ NFL QBs in order (no one can be that discerning or objective), try creating buckets of roughly similar performers. This is kinda what hx did in developing his list of those he take over Baker, although I don't think that his approach really answers your question. Brady may not be the QB you'd want to bank on for the decade, but today he is definitely above average.
I may take a crack at it later, but right now I still see Baker's QB proficiency as being in flux... or TBD.
Well, that all sounds great, now, is Baker average or above or below? He's below. That's not saying he's one of the worst, but #1 overall pick in the draft worthy?
-
I think he would have had a pretty special year of OBJ wasn't hurt. I predicted around 27 tds and 14 picks for him, and that would be better than anything we've ever seen. Is that average? Tough to say. Compared to Mahomes? Yeah, of course. Compared to the shit we had to endure? No, he's all universe.
I think he would have had a pretty special year of OBJ wasn't hurt. I predicted around 27 tds and 14 picks for him, and that would be better than anything we've ever seen. Is that average? Tough to say. Compared to Mahomes? Yeah, of course. Compared to the shit we had to endure? No, he's all universe.
It's hard to put him above 16 other QBs. But the 2nd half of the season may tell a lot. But is he better than the QBs the last 20 years in Cleveland? I'd say so.
-
Not to go all stat-guy on you, but "average" doesn't mean that at all. What you have defined is the median performance, the performance level at which there are as many superior performers as there are inferior ones.
Now in a normal distribution the mean (a/k/a average), median and mode (the level with the highest count) all coincide,.
But this is the NFL. Where the best players land after being distilled thru thousands of High Schools and then redistilled thru hundreds of Colleges. Their distribution is going to be anything but "normal". It will be heavily skewed towards the top end.
Rather than try to rank 30+ NFL QBs in order (no one can be that discerning or objective), try creating buckets of roughly similar performers. This is kinda what hx did in developing his list of those he take over Baker, although I don't think that his approach really answers your question. Brady may not be the QB you'd want to bank on for the decade, but today he is definitely above average.
I may take a crack at it later, but right now I still see Baker's QB proficiency as being in flux... or TBD.
Well, that all sounds great, now, is Baker average or above or below? He's below. That's not saying he's one of the worst, but #1 overall pick in the draft worthy?
-
Acording to my info, Baker is well above average...
According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) , the average age-adjusted height for American men 20 years old and up is 69.1 inches (175.4 centimeters). That's about 5 feet 9 inches tall. This number comes from data published in December 2018.
-
Acording to my info, Baker is well above average...
According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) , the average age-adjusted height for American men 20 years old and up is 69.1 inches (175.4 centimeters). That's about 5 feet 9 inches tall. This number comes from data published in December 2018.
-
The more I think about it, the more I want him back and don't even want to consider anyone else. Who would we get? A rookie? A washed up veteran? No thank you. 4 coaches in 3 years...let's see what year 2 in the same system looks like. He can do it, I'd bet on it.
-
His skill set does not look average... But his ability or lack thereof to read defenses so far is very average to this point... But guys like Steve young , Gary Ferguson and Steve Grogan have turn it on late in their careers.. So I think its too early to finish the book on him yet.. I'm all for giving him this season... It's not like were going to the SB..
-
The more I think about it, the more I want him back and don't even want to consider anyone else. Who would we get? A rookie? A washed up veteran? No thank you. 4 coaches in 3 years...let's see what year 2 in the same system looks like. He can do it, I'd bet on it.
The more I think about it, the more I want him back and don't even want to consider anyone else. Who would we get? A rookie? A washed up veteran? No thank you. 4 coaches in 3 years...
This is what I keep coming back to.
Most likely you aren't drafting some one better than him in the lower part of the first round that you'll be in.
If you draft another QB you can't draft to improve other areas of the team.
He is better than available vets out there.
I know the one argument is "Well he was a number 1 overall..... so he isn't playing up to that" ...... each team only gets one pick in the first..... if they would have drafted him 10th through 15th would his play be acceptable? The 4 QB's taken in the first that year..... I still feel he is better than.
Sam got shafted getting put on a bad team in a bad organization but when I've seen him play I'm not saying.... "Man we could have had that guy!"
Josh Allan is pretty damn good at times, but other times he misses throws that look like that throw Baker had to Njoku to lead the game off in 40mph wind...
Rosen is taking it up the tailpipe somewhere in the backseat of his Tesla....
-
If I had to break down the starting QBs around the league in to 3 groups, at least as of now, baker is a bottom 3rd QB.
-
I’ve been critical of Baker. I thought our Player Caller and QB let us down last year the most.
And most of us pointed to the play caller and the offensive line. But Baker played poorly last season.
He has a few flaws. He needs to keep his eyes downfield when he’s moving around in the pocket. He needs to do a better job with his reads. Sometimes he unnecessarily hurries himself and his mechanics are off and his ball sails on him. He has also had some very good moments.
644286.8TDs. INTs. QB Rating.
RIGHT NOW I can’t put him bottom third but I think I could put him squarely in the middle. He’s developing definitely not a finished product
-
I’ve been critical of Baker. I thought our Player Caller and QB let us down last year the most.
And most of us pointed to the play caller and the offensive line. But Baker played poorly last season.
He has a few flaws. He needs to keep his eyes downfield when he’s moving around in the pocket. He needs to do a better job with his reads. Sometimes he unnecessarily hurries himself and his mechanics are off and his ball sails on him. He has also had some very good moments.
644286.8TDs. INTs. QB Rating.
RIGHT NOW I can’t put him bottom third but I think I could put him squarely in the middle. He’s developing definitely not a finished product
I’ve been critical of Baker. I thought our Player Caller and QB let us down last year the most.
And most of us pointed to the play caller and the offensive line. But Baker played poorly last season.
He has a few flaws. He needs to keep his eyes downfield when he’s moving around in the pocket. He needs to do a better job with his reads. Sometimes he unnecessarily hurries himself and his mechanics are off and his ball sails on him. He has also had some very good moments.
644286.8TDs. INTs. QB Rating.
RIGHT NOW I can’t put him bottom third but I think I could put him squarely in the middle. He’s developing definitely not a finished product
Here's the thing. Everybody needs to look at Big Ben's numbers for his first few years. Then, think about what Baker would do if he EVER had a defense behind him. What would Baker look like playing for Pittsburgh? He'd be unstoppable.
Fix the defense, help Baker. Our defense resembles a gaggle of pusscakes with Myles and Denzel hanging out with them.
-
It's funny you want to lean on "facts" when they don't support your position.
Other than Baker's height vs the average American male to this point what position have I taken?
The 2018 height data is the most recent I could find. Are you saying we have gotten significantly, as in more than 3" taller on average, in the past 2 years?
And, yes, the above is joking around...
Even the earlier Statistics 101 lesson was tongue-in-cheek... but even as such, I hoped it might take. It didn't.
Seriously?
This is an opinion thread. There is not universal agreement on what objective measure, e.g., QBR, W/L, TD:INT ratio, etc., we should use to rank QBs.
So there is no factual argument to be made... just posts of an opinion vs. "average" supported by an opinion of which factors are most important.
My opinion?
Baker is currently slightly above average with 2nd tier upside.
-
By definition, to be average Baker would be somewhere around the 15th or 16th best QB in the NFL. Do you think he is?
Let's look. By the ratings (and I realize you can argue the ratings alone doesn't always tell the full story but it's a good start)...
R. Wilson
Mahomes
Rogers
Carr
Tannehill
D. Watson
Brees
Herbert
Brady
J. Allen
Big Ben
Dak
Kyle Allen
Bridgewater
N. Mullens
M. Ryan
Rivers
Fitzpatrick
Stafford
Goff
Minshew
L. Jackson
K. Murray
Jimmy G
Cousins
Burrow
Baker
Tua
Kaskins
Foles
Driskel
Tyrod Taylor
Dan Jones
Cam Newton
Wentz
That puts him at 27, which is far below average. And looking at the order of the list, it passes my eye test as far as being accurate in determining quality of play. I'd move a few up or down a few spots, but it's pretty on the $.
So even if you can argue Baker maybe a few spots better, he's still around the 25th best or so. Is that acceptable for the 1st pick overall in the draft halfway through his 3rd season? If the Browns were told,"By his 3rd season, Baker will be the 27th rated passer" would they have taken him #1 overall?
Of course, I am in no way suggesting now would be the time for a change, no way. He gets at least this season to show what he has got, barring him just falling of a cliff, especially considering we have to see of the passing game blossoms without forcing it to OBJ so often. (But others say the passing attack will suffer sans OBJ.) The 2nd half of this season is huge in determining Baker's future. As things stand, his last year option is probably safe, but if he doesn't ascend from where he is now, a big, new franchise QB deal is not likely. Baker, it's time. You are at a crossroad.
By definition, to be average Baker would be somewhere around the 15th or 16th best QB in the NFL. Do you think he is?
Let's look. By the ratings (and I realize you can argue the ratings alone doesn't always tell the full story but it's a good start)...
R. Wilson
Mahomes
Rogers
Carr
Tannehill
D. Watson
Brees
Herbert
Brady
J. Allen
Big Ben
Dak
Kyle Allen
Bridgewater
N. Mullens
M. Ryan
Rivers
Fitzpatrick
Stafford
Goff
Minshew
L. Jackson
K. Murray
Jimmy G
Cousins
Burrow
Baker
Tua
Kaskins
Foles
Driskel
Tyrod Taylor
Dan Jones
Cam Newton
Wentz
That puts him at 27, which is far below average. And looking at the order of the list, it passes my eye test as far as being accurate in determining quality of play. I'd move a few up or down a few spots, but it's pretty on the $.
So even if you can argue Baker maybe a few spots better, he's still around the 25th best or so. Is that acceptable for the 1st pick overall in the draft halfway through his 3rd season? If the Browns were told,"By his 3rd season, Baker will be the 27th rated passer" would they have taken him #1 overall?
Of course, I am in no way suggesting now would be the time for a change, no way. He gets at least this season to show what he has got, barring him just falling of a cliff, especially considering we have to see of the passing game blossoms without forcing it to OBJ so often. (But others say the passing attack will suffer sans OBJ.) The 2nd half of this season is huge in determining Baker's future. As things stand, his last year option is probably safe, but if he doesn't ascend from where he is now, a big, new franchise QB deal is not likely. Baker, it's time. You are at a crossroad.
Hold on a full minute. While it can certainly be said Baker is below average, using this list and saying its accurate is asinine.
Especially when considering that it obviously is only factoring in this half a season. But hey, instead of just throwing out this list, lets look at a few to show how truly wrong it is.
Do you believe Carr is the #4 quarterback in the league? Tannehill 5th? Kyle Allen 13th? Mullens 15th? Lamar 22nd? Kyler 23rd? Burrow 26th? Wentz 35th?
In a real perspective, Baker is somewhere around 20.
Seriously, Minshew is RANKED AHEAD of last years MVP, Laat years #1 pick and ROY
If this passes the eye test to you, then you know very little. What my eyes tell me is that you just don't like the Browns. Everything you post is negative. Which is fine, but just go ahead and admit it or don't be offended when you continue to look like you are trolling.
-
To answer the thread question: No.
-
I’ve been critical of Baker. I thought our Player Caller and QB let us down last year the most.
And most of us pointed to the play caller and the offensive line. But Baker played poorly last season.
He has a few flaws. He needs to keep his eyes downfield when he’s moving around in the pocket. He needs to do a better job with his reads. Sometimes he unnecessarily hurries himself and his mechanics are off and his ball sails on him. He has also had some very good moments.
644286.8TDs. INTs. QB Rating.
RIGHT NOW I can’t put him bottom third but I think I could put him squarely in the middle. He’s developing definitely not a finished product
Here's the thing. Everybody needs to look at Big Ben's numbers for his first few years. Then, think about what Baker would do if he EVER had a defense behind him. What would Baker look like playing for Pittsburgh? He'd be unstoppable.
Fix the defense, help Baker. Our defense resembles a gaggle of pusscakes with Myles and Denzel hanging out with them.
Here's the thing. Everybody needs to look at Big Ben's numbers for his first few years. Then, think about what Baker would do if he EVER had a defense behind him. What would Baker look like playing for Pittsburgh? He'd be unstoppable.
Fix the defense, help Baker. Our defense resembles a gaggle of pusscakes with Myles and Denzel hanging out with them.
A better defense helps the team.
Baker has some areas to cleanup where fixing our defensive personnel or changing our scheme or making better use of the scheme we have - these really have nothing to do with Baker refining his skills or getting wiser to the position.
Time, continuity and hard work at his craft should help Baker
-
By definition, to be average Baker would be somewhere around the 15th or 16th best QB in the NFL. Do you think he is?
Let's look. By the ratings (and I realize you can argue the ratings alone doesn't always tell the full story but it's a good start)...
R. Wilson
Mahomes
Rogers
Carr
Tannehill
D. Watson
Brees
Herbert
Brady
J. Allen
Big Ben
Dak
Kyle Allen
Bridgewater
N. Mullens
M. Ryan
Rivers
Fitzpatrick
Stafford
Goff
Minshew
L. Jackson
K. Murray
Jimmy G
Cousins
Burrow
Baker
Tua
Kaskins
Foles
Driskel
Tyrod Taylor
Dan Jones
Cam Newton
Wentz
That puts him at 27, which is far below average. And looking at the order of the list, it passes my eye test as far as being accurate in determining quality of play. I'd move a few up or down a few spots, but it's pretty on the $.
So even if you can argue Baker maybe a few spots better, he's still around the 25th best or so. Is that acceptable for the 1st pick overall in the draft halfway through his 3rd season? If the Browns were told,"By his 3rd season, Baker will be the 27th rated passer" would they have taken him #1 overall?
Of course, I am in no way suggesting now would be the time for a change, no way. He gets at least this season to show what he has got, barring him just falling of a cliff, especially considering we have to see of the passing game blossoms without forcing it to OBJ so often. (But others say the passing attack will suffer sans OBJ.) The 2nd half of this season is huge in determining Baker's future. As things stand, his last year option is probably safe, but if he doesn't ascend from where he is now, a big, new franchise QB deal is not likely. Baker, it's time. You are at a crossroad.
Hold on a full minute. While it can certainly be said Baker is below average, using this list and saying its accurate is asinine.
Especially when considering that it obviously is only factoring in this half a season. But hey, instead of just throwing out this list, lets look at a few to show how truly wrong it is.
Do you believe Carr is the #4 quarterback in the league? Tannehill 5th? Kyle Allen 13th? Mullens 15th? Lamar 22nd? Kyler 23rd? Burrow 26th? Wentz 35th?
In a real perspective, Baker is somewhere around 20.
Seriously, Minshew is RANKED AHEAD of last years MVP, Laat years #1 pick and ROY
If this passes the eye test to you, then you know very little. What my eyes tell me is that you just don't like the Browns. Everything you post is negative. Which is fine, but just go ahead and admit it or don't be offended when you continue to look like you are trolling.
Hold on a full minute. While it can certainly be said Baker is below average, using this list and saying its accurate is asinine.
Especially when considering that it obviously is only factoring in this half a season. But hey, instead of just throwing out this list, lets look at a few to show how truly wrong it is.
Do you believe Carr is the #4 quarterback in the league? Tannehill 5th? Kyle Allen 13th? Mullens 15th? Lamar 22nd? Kyler 23rd? Burrow 26th? Wentz 35th?
In a real perspective, Baker is somewhere around 20.
Seriously, Minshew is RANKED AHEAD of last years MVP, Laat years #1 pick and ROY
If this passes the eye test to you, then you know very little. What my eyes tell me is that you just don't like the Browns. Everything you post is negative. Which is fine, but just go ahead and admit it or don't be offended when you continue to look like you are trolling.
I already said it was not the perfect rating system at the very top. And, you go on to admit Baker is realistically around 20th...there are 32 starting QBs, plus a few who later became starters later. If Baker is 20th, that would put him at below average. So, while claiming to disagree with the premise you then conclude the same thing - that Baker is below average.
-
By definition, to be average Baker would be somewhere around the 15th or 16th best QB in the NFL. Do you think he is?
Let's look. By the ratings (and I realize you can argue the ratings alone doesn't always tell the full story but it's a good start)...
R. Wilson
Mahomes
Rogers
Carr
Tannehill
D. Watson
Brees
Herbert
Brady
J. Allen
Big Ben
Dak
Kyle Allen
Bridgewater
N. Mullens
M. Ryan
Rivers
Fitzpatrick
Stafford
Goff
Minshew
L. Jackson
K. Murray
Jimmy G
Cousins
Burrow
Baker
Tua
Kaskins
Foles
Driskel
Tyrod Taylor
Dan Jones
Cam Newton
Wentz
That puts him at 27, which is far below average. And looking at the order of the list, it passes my eye test as far as being accurate in determining quality of play. I'd move a few up or down a few spots, but it's pretty on the $.
So even if you can argue Baker maybe a few spots better, he's still around the 25th best or so. Is that acceptable for the 1st pick overall in the draft halfway through his 3rd season? If the Browns were told,"By his 3rd season, Baker will be the 27th rated passer" would they have taken him #1 overall?
Of course, I am in no way suggesting now would be the time for a change, no way. He gets at least this season to show what he has got, barring him just falling of a cliff, especially considering we have to see of the passing game blossoms without forcing it to OBJ so often. (But others say the passing attack will suffer sans OBJ.) The 2nd half of this season is huge in determining Baker's future. As things stand, his last year option is probably safe, but if he doesn't ascend from where he is now, a big, new franchise QB deal is not likely. Baker, it's time. You are at a crossroad.
By definition, to be average Baker would be somewhere around the 15th or 16th best QB in the NFL. Do you think he is?
Let's look. By the ratings (and I realize you can argue the ratings alone doesn't always tell the full story but it's a good start)...
R. Wilson
Mahomes
Rogers
Carr
Tannehill
D. Watson
Brees
Herbert
Brady
J. Allen
Big Ben
Dak
Kyle Allen
Bridgewater
N. Mullens
M. Ryan
Rivers
Fitzpatrick
Stafford
Goff
Minshew
L. Jackson
K. Murray
Jimmy G
Cousins
Burrow
Baker
Tua
Kaskins
Foles
Driskel
Tyrod Taylor
Dan Jones
Cam Newton
Wentz
That puts him at 27, which is far below average. And looking at the order of the list, it passes my eye test as far as being accurate in determining quality of play. I'd move a few up or down a few spots, but it's pretty on the $.
So even if you can argue Baker maybe a few spots better, he's still around the 25th best or so. Is that acceptable for the 1st pick overall in the draft halfway through his 3rd season? If the Browns were told,"By his 3rd season, Baker will be the 27th rated passer" would they have taken him #1 overall?
Of course, I am in no way suggesting now would be the time for a change, no way. He gets at least this season to show what he has got, barring him just falling of a cliff, especially considering we have to see of the passing game blossoms without forcing it to OBJ so often. (But others say the passing attack will suffer sans OBJ.) The 2nd half of this season is huge in determining Baker's future. As things stand, his last year option is probably safe, but if he doesn't ascend from where he is now, a big, new franchise QB deal is not likely. Baker, it's time. You are at a crossroad.
right now he is under the gun....they had gm berry on espn.....it was a clip from what looked like some kind of presser this week or maybe late last week....it appears right now they are not going to pick up the last yr of his contract....baker really needs to pick it up in the second half......my guess is berry is seeing the other 3 qb's in the division doing quite well....this burrow kid....look out......if the bengals do it right, i can see them leapfrogging way past us and the ravens in the very near future....and when ben retires, maybe even them......berry sees all this i am sure...
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login