Baker Mayfield
-
His skill set does not look average... But his ability or lack thereof to read defenses so far is very average to this point... But guys like Steve young , Gary Ferguson and Steve Grogan have turn it on late in their careers.. So I think its too early to finish the book on him yet.. I'm all for giving him this season... It's not like were going to the SB..
-
The more I think about it, the more I want him back and don't even want to consider anyone else. Who would we get? A rookie? A washed up veteran? No thank you. 4 coaches in 3 years...let's see what year 2 in the same system looks like. He can do it, I'd bet on it.
The more I think about it, the more I want him back and don't even want to consider anyone else. Who would we get? A rookie? A washed up veteran? No thank you. 4 coaches in 3 years...
This is what I keep coming back to.
Most likely you aren't drafting some one better than him in the lower part of the first round that you'll be in.
If you draft another QB you can't draft to improve other areas of the team.
He is better than available vets out there.
I know the one argument is "Well he was a number 1 overall..... so he isn't playing up to that" ...... each team only gets one pick in the first..... if they would have drafted him 10th through 15th would his play be acceptable? The 4 QB's taken in the first that year..... I still feel he is better than.
Sam got shafted getting put on a bad team in a bad organization but when I've seen him play I'm not saying.... "Man we could have had that guy!"
Josh Allan is pretty damn good at times, but other times he misses throws that look like that throw Baker had to Njoku to lead the game off in 40mph wind...
Rosen is taking it up the tailpipe somewhere in the backseat of his Tesla....
-
If I had to break down the starting QBs around the league in to 3 groups, at least as of now, baker is a bottom 3rd QB.
-
I’ve been critical of Baker. I thought our Player Caller and QB let us down last year the most.
And most of us pointed to the play caller and the offensive line. But Baker played poorly last season.
He has a few flaws. He needs to keep his eyes downfield when he’s moving around in the pocket. He needs to do a better job with his reads. Sometimes he unnecessarily hurries himself and his mechanics are off and his ball sails on him. He has also had some very good moments.
644286.8TDs. INTs. QB Rating.
RIGHT NOW I can’t put him bottom third but I think I could put him squarely in the middle. He’s developing definitely not a finished product
-
I’ve been critical of Baker. I thought our Player Caller and QB let us down last year the most.
And most of us pointed to the play caller and the offensive line. But Baker played poorly last season.
He has a few flaws. He needs to keep his eyes downfield when he’s moving around in the pocket. He needs to do a better job with his reads. Sometimes he unnecessarily hurries himself and his mechanics are off and his ball sails on him. He has also had some very good moments.
644286.8TDs. INTs. QB Rating.
RIGHT NOW I can’t put him bottom third but I think I could put him squarely in the middle. He’s developing definitely not a finished product
I’ve been critical of Baker. I thought our Player Caller and QB let us down last year the most.
And most of us pointed to the play caller and the offensive line. But Baker played poorly last season.
He has a few flaws. He needs to keep his eyes downfield when he’s moving around in the pocket. He needs to do a better job with his reads. Sometimes he unnecessarily hurries himself and his mechanics are off and his ball sails on him. He has also had some very good moments.
644286.8TDs. INTs. QB Rating.
RIGHT NOW I can’t put him bottom third but I think I could put him squarely in the middle. He’s developing definitely not a finished product
Here's the thing. Everybody needs to look at Big Ben's numbers for his first few years. Then, think about what Baker would do if he EVER had a defense behind him. What would Baker look like playing for Pittsburgh? He'd be unstoppable.
Fix the defense, help Baker. Our defense resembles a gaggle of pusscakes with Myles and Denzel hanging out with them.
-
It's funny you want to lean on "facts" when they don't support your position.
Other than Baker's height vs the average American male to this point what position have I taken?
The 2018 height data is the most recent I could find. Are you saying we have gotten significantly, as in more than 3" taller on average, in the past 2 years?
And, yes, the above is joking around...
Even the earlier Statistics 101 lesson was tongue-in-cheek... but even as such, I hoped it might take. It didn't.
Seriously?
This is an opinion thread. There is not universal agreement on what objective measure, e.g., QBR, W/L, TD:INT ratio, etc., we should use to rank QBs.
So there is no factual argument to be made... just posts of an opinion vs. "average" supported by an opinion of which factors are most important.
My opinion?
Baker is currently slightly above average with 2nd tier upside.
-
By definition, to be average Baker would be somewhere around the 15th or 16th best QB in the NFL. Do you think he is?
Let's look. By the ratings (and I realize you can argue the ratings alone doesn't always tell the full story but it's a good start)...
R. Wilson
Mahomes
Rogers
Carr
Tannehill
D. Watson
Brees
Herbert
Brady
J. Allen
Big Ben
Dak
Kyle Allen
Bridgewater
N. Mullens
M. Ryan
Rivers
Fitzpatrick
Stafford
Goff
Minshew
L. Jackson
K. Murray
Jimmy G
Cousins
Burrow
Baker
Tua
Kaskins
Foles
Driskel
Tyrod Taylor
Dan Jones
Cam Newton
Wentz
That puts him at 27, which is far below average. And looking at the order of the list, it passes my eye test as far as being accurate in determining quality of play. I'd move a few up or down a few spots, but it's pretty on the $.
So even if you can argue Baker maybe a few spots better, he's still around the 25th best or so. Is that acceptable for the 1st pick overall in the draft halfway through his 3rd season? If the Browns were told,"By his 3rd season, Baker will be the 27th rated passer" would they have taken him #1 overall?
Of course, I am in no way suggesting now would be the time for a change, no way. He gets at least this season to show what he has got, barring him just falling of a cliff, especially considering we have to see of the passing game blossoms without forcing it to OBJ so often. (But others say the passing attack will suffer sans OBJ.) The 2nd half of this season is huge in determining Baker's future. As things stand, his last year option is probably safe, but if he doesn't ascend from where he is now, a big, new franchise QB deal is not likely. Baker, it's time. You are at a crossroad.
By definition, to be average Baker would be somewhere around the 15th or 16th best QB in the NFL. Do you think he is?
Let's look. By the ratings (and I realize you can argue the ratings alone doesn't always tell the full story but it's a good start)...
R. Wilson
Mahomes
Rogers
Carr
Tannehill
D. Watson
Brees
Herbert
Brady
J. Allen
Big Ben
Dak
Kyle Allen
Bridgewater
N. Mullens
M. Ryan
Rivers
Fitzpatrick
Stafford
Goff
Minshew
L. Jackson
K. Murray
Jimmy G
Cousins
Burrow
Baker
Tua
Kaskins
Foles
Driskel
Tyrod Taylor
Dan Jones
Cam Newton
Wentz
That puts him at 27, which is far below average. And looking at the order of the list, it passes my eye test as far as being accurate in determining quality of play. I'd move a few up or down a few spots, but it's pretty on the $.
So even if you can argue Baker maybe a few spots better, he's still around the 25th best or so. Is that acceptable for the 1st pick overall in the draft halfway through his 3rd season? If the Browns were told,"By his 3rd season, Baker will be the 27th rated passer" would they have taken him #1 overall?
Of course, I am in no way suggesting now would be the time for a change, no way. He gets at least this season to show what he has got, barring him just falling of a cliff, especially considering we have to see of the passing game blossoms without forcing it to OBJ so often. (But others say the passing attack will suffer sans OBJ.) The 2nd half of this season is huge in determining Baker's future. As things stand, his last year option is probably safe, but if he doesn't ascend from where he is now, a big, new franchise QB deal is not likely. Baker, it's time. You are at a crossroad.
Hold on a full minute. While it can certainly be said Baker is below average, using this list and saying its accurate is asinine.
Especially when considering that it obviously is only factoring in this half a season. But hey, instead of just throwing out this list, lets look at a few to show how truly wrong it is.
Do you believe Carr is the #4 quarterback in the league? Tannehill 5th? Kyle Allen 13th? Mullens 15th? Lamar 22nd? Kyler 23rd? Burrow 26th? Wentz 35th?
In a real perspective, Baker is somewhere around 20.
Seriously, Minshew is RANKED AHEAD of last years MVP, Laat years #1 pick and ROY
If this passes the eye test to you, then you know very little. What my eyes tell me is that you just don't like the Browns. Everything you post is negative. Which is fine, but just go ahead and admit it or don't be offended when you continue to look like you are trolling.
-
To answer the thread question: No.
-
I’ve been critical of Baker. I thought our Player Caller and QB let us down last year the most.
And most of us pointed to the play caller and the offensive line. But Baker played poorly last season.
He has a few flaws. He needs to keep his eyes downfield when he’s moving around in the pocket. He needs to do a better job with his reads. Sometimes he unnecessarily hurries himself and his mechanics are off and his ball sails on him. He has also had some very good moments.
644286.8TDs. INTs. QB Rating.
RIGHT NOW I can’t put him bottom third but I think I could put him squarely in the middle. He’s developing definitely not a finished product
Here's the thing. Everybody needs to look at Big Ben's numbers for his first few years. Then, think about what Baker would do if he EVER had a defense behind him. What would Baker look like playing for Pittsburgh? He'd be unstoppable.
Fix the defense, help Baker. Our defense resembles a gaggle of pusscakes with Myles and Denzel hanging out with them.
Here's the thing. Everybody needs to look at Big Ben's numbers for his first few years. Then, think about what Baker would do if he EVER had a defense behind him. What would Baker look like playing for Pittsburgh? He'd be unstoppable.
Fix the defense, help Baker. Our defense resembles a gaggle of pusscakes with Myles and Denzel hanging out with them.
A better defense helps the team.
Baker has some areas to cleanup where fixing our defensive personnel or changing our scheme or making better use of the scheme we have - these really have nothing to do with Baker refining his skills or getting wiser to the position.
Time, continuity and hard work at his craft should help Baker
-
By definition, to be average Baker would be somewhere around the 15th or 16th best QB in the NFL. Do you think he is?
Let's look. By the ratings (and I realize you can argue the ratings alone doesn't always tell the full story but it's a good start)...
R. Wilson
Mahomes
Rogers
Carr
Tannehill
D. Watson
Brees
Herbert
Brady
J. Allen
Big Ben
Dak
Kyle Allen
Bridgewater
N. Mullens
M. Ryan
Rivers
Fitzpatrick
Stafford
Goff
Minshew
L. Jackson
K. Murray
Jimmy G
Cousins
Burrow
Baker
Tua
Kaskins
Foles
Driskel
Tyrod Taylor
Dan Jones
Cam Newton
Wentz
That puts him at 27, which is far below average. And looking at the order of the list, it passes my eye test as far as being accurate in determining quality of play. I'd move a few up or down a few spots, but it's pretty on the $.
So even if you can argue Baker maybe a few spots better, he's still around the 25th best or so. Is that acceptable for the 1st pick overall in the draft halfway through his 3rd season? If the Browns were told,"By his 3rd season, Baker will be the 27th rated passer" would they have taken him #1 overall?
Of course, I am in no way suggesting now would be the time for a change, no way. He gets at least this season to show what he has got, barring him just falling of a cliff, especially considering we have to see of the passing game blossoms without forcing it to OBJ so often. (But others say the passing attack will suffer sans OBJ.) The 2nd half of this season is huge in determining Baker's future. As things stand, his last year option is probably safe, but if he doesn't ascend from where he is now, a big, new franchise QB deal is not likely. Baker, it's time. You are at a crossroad.
Hold on a full minute. While it can certainly be said Baker is below average, using this list and saying its accurate is asinine.
Especially when considering that it obviously is only factoring in this half a season. But hey, instead of just throwing out this list, lets look at a few to show how truly wrong it is.
Do you believe Carr is the #4 quarterback in the league? Tannehill 5th? Kyle Allen 13th? Mullens 15th? Lamar 22nd? Kyler 23rd? Burrow 26th? Wentz 35th?
In a real perspective, Baker is somewhere around 20.
Seriously, Minshew is RANKED AHEAD of last years MVP, Laat years #1 pick and ROY
If this passes the eye test to you, then you know very little. What my eyes tell me is that you just don't like the Browns. Everything you post is negative. Which is fine, but just go ahead and admit it or don't be offended when you continue to look like you are trolling.
Hold on a full minute. While it can certainly be said Baker is below average, using this list and saying its accurate is asinine.
Especially when considering that it obviously is only factoring in this half a season. But hey, instead of just throwing out this list, lets look at a few to show how truly wrong it is.
Do you believe Carr is the #4 quarterback in the league? Tannehill 5th? Kyle Allen 13th? Mullens 15th? Lamar 22nd? Kyler 23rd? Burrow 26th? Wentz 35th?
In a real perspective, Baker is somewhere around 20.
Seriously, Minshew is RANKED AHEAD of last years MVP, Laat years #1 pick and ROY
If this passes the eye test to you, then you know very little. What my eyes tell me is that you just don't like the Browns. Everything you post is negative. Which is fine, but just go ahead and admit it or don't be offended when you continue to look like you are trolling.
I already said it was not the perfect rating system at the very top. And, you go on to admit Baker is realistically around 20th...there are 32 starting QBs, plus a few who later became starters later. If Baker is 20th, that would put him at below average. So, while claiming to disagree with the premise you then conclude the same thing - that Baker is below average.
-
By definition, to be average Baker would be somewhere around the 15th or 16th best QB in the NFL. Do you think he is?
Let's look. By the ratings (and I realize you can argue the ratings alone doesn't always tell the full story but it's a good start)...
R. Wilson
Mahomes
Rogers
Carr
Tannehill
D. Watson
Brees
Herbert
Brady
J. Allen
Big Ben
Dak
Kyle Allen
Bridgewater
N. Mullens
M. Ryan
Rivers
Fitzpatrick
Stafford
Goff
Minshew
L. Jackson
K. Murray
Jimmy G
Cousins
Burrow
Baker
Tua
Kaskins
Foles
Driskel
Tyrod Taylor
Dan Jones
Cam Newton
Wentz
That puts him at 27, which is far below average. And looking at the order of the list, it passes my eye test as far as being accurate in determining quality of play. I'd move a few up or down a few spots, but it's pretty on the $.
So even if you can argue Baker maybe a few spots better, he's still around the 25th best or so. Is that acceptable for the 1st pick overall in the draft halfway through his 3rd season? If the Browns were told,"By his 3rd season, Baker will be the 27th rated passer" would they have taken him #1 overall?
Of course, I am in no way suggesting now would be the time for a change, no way. He gets at least this season to show what he has got, barring him just falling of a cliff, especially considering we have to see of the passing game blossoms without forcing it to OBJ so often. (But others say the passing attack will suffer sans OBJ.) The 2nd half of this season is huge in determining Baker's future. As things stand, his last year option is probably safe, but if he doesn't ascend from where he is now, a big, new franchise QB deal is not likely. Baker, it's time. You are at a crossroad.
By definition, to be average Baker would be somewhere around the 15th or 16th best QB in the NFL. Do you think he is?
Let's look. By the ratings (and I realize you can argue the ratings alone doesn't always tell the full story but it's a good start)...
R. Wilson
Mahomes
Rogers
Carr
Tannehill
D. Watson
Brees
Herbert
Brady
J. Allen
Big Ben
Dak
Kyle Allen
Bridgewater
N. Mullens
M. Ryan
Rivers
Fitzpatrick
Stafford
Goff
Minshew
L. Jackson
K. Murray
Jimmy G
Cousins
Burrow
Baker
Tua
Kaskins
Foles
Driskel
Tyrod Taylor
Dan Jones
Cam Newton
Wentz
That puts him at 27, which is far below average. And looking at the order of the list, it passes my eye test as far as being accurate in determining quality of play. I'd move a few up or down a few spots, but it's pretty on the $.
So even if you can argue Baker maybe a few spots better, he's still around the 25th best or so. Is that acceptable for the 1st pick overall in the draft halfway through his 3rd season? If the Browns were told,"By his 3rd season, Baker will be the 27th rated passer" would they have taken him #1 overall?
Of course, I am in no way suggesting now would be the time for a change, no way. He gets at least this season to show what he has got, barring him just falling of a cliff, especially considering we have to see of the passing game blossoms without forcing it to OBJ so often. (But others say the passing attack will suffer sans OBJ.) The 2nd half of this season is huge in determining Baker's future. As things stand, his last year option is probably safe, but if he doesn't ascend from where he is now, a big, new franchise QB deal is not likely. Baker, it's time. You are at a crossroad.
right now he is under the gun....they had gm berry on espn.....it was a clip from what looked like some kind of presser this week or maybe late last week....it appears right now they are not going to pick up the last yr of his contract....baker really needs to pick it up in the second half......my guess is berry is seeing the other 3 qb's in the division doing quite well....this burrow kid....look out......if the bengals do it right, i can see them leapfrogging way past us and the ravens in the very near future....and when ben retires, maybe even them......berry sees all this i am sure...
-
Hold on a full minute. While it can certainly be said Baker is below average, using this list and saying its accurate is asinine.
Especially when considering that it obviously is only factoring in this half a season. But hey, instead of just throwing out this list, lets look at a few to show how truly wrong it is.
Do you believe Carr is the #4 quarterback in the league? Tannehill 5th? Kyle Allen 13th? Mullens 15th? Lamar 22nd? Kyler 23rd? Burrow 26th? Wentz 35th?
In a real perspective, Baker is somewhere around 20.
Seriously, Minshew is RANKED AHEAD of last years MVP, Laat years #1 pick and ROY
If this passes the eye test to you, then you know very little. What my eyes tell me is that you just don't like the Browns. Everything you post is negative. Which is fine, but just go ahead and admit it or don't be offended when you continue to look like you are trolling.
I already said it was not the perfect rating system at the very top. And, you go on to admit Baker is realistically around 20th...there are 32 starting QBs, plus a few who later became starters later. If Baker is 20th, that would put him at below average. So, while claiming to disagree with the premise you then conclude the same thing - that Baker is below average.
-
Guess it depends on how you want to look at it. This team just made the statement they are more worried about the future than they are this year buy doing nothing to fix the defense, so if you break down the top ten, personally there are only 3 QB’s on that list that I would swap for Baker right now...
Mahomes, Watson and Wilson
obviously if you turn back the clock or change team strategy to win now, you’d add in
Brady, Rodgers and Brees
But those guys could be a year or major injury away from being retired.
Carr and Tannehill are a pass, and Allen has some moments but has the accuracy of a knuckle ball in the wind....
Herbert would be a push based on his 5 game career so far.
If you expand out on the next 10, based on the same criteria I’d probably swap Baker for Ryan and probably Dak but I’d have to think pretty hard. Stafford.... meh I don’t know....I’d probably pass.
then the rest of the way out you have guys like Lamar and Murray who kind of have to have a offense tailored to their play style, so I guess it depends with those kind of guys, I have friends that love that kind of play and others that can’t stand it, (I’d hate to have a running type QB and have to hold your breath when he takes hits game after game and their shelf life is questionable)
After that I’d say Burrow is the last candidate, who some are super high on, but throws 45+ times a game and has 11 TD’s all season.... 6 against Cleveland’s “Defense”... Baker haters say hell ya give me Burrow, I haven’t seen enough yet, so I’d say push.
you wanna win right now? Then turn that list on its ear and go for a high powered Vet.
If I were Berry, I’d extend the contract, build my team for two more years, see what he ends up looking like make a call in his 5th year to trade or resign.
Going off that list of swaps and maybes, that puts Baker at about 12-15 QB in the league. I’d say average to above average is a good estimate.Considering the Browns usual “shit sandwich to soggy shit sandwich” QB play....
Guess it depends on how you want to look at it. This team just made the statement they are more worried about the future than they are this year buy doing nothing to fix the defense, so if you break down the top ten, personally there are only 3 QB’s on that list that I would swap for Baker right now...
Mahomes, Watson and Wilson
obviously if you turn back the clock or change team strategy to win now, you’d add in
Brady, Rodgers and Brees
But those guys could be a year or major injury away from being retired.
Carr and Tannehill are a pass, and Allen has some moments but has the accuracy of a knuckle ball in the wind....
Herbert would be a push based on his 5 game career so far.
If you expand out on the next 10, based on the same criteria I’d probably swap Baker for Ryan and probably Dak but I’d have to think pretty hard. Stafford.... meh I don’t know....I’d probably pass.
then the rest of the way out you have guys like Lamar and Murray who kind of have to have a offense tailored to their play style, so I guess it depends with those kind of guys, I have friends that love that kind of play and others that can’t stand it, (I’d hate to have a running type QB and have to hold your breath when he takes hits game after game and their shelf life is questionable)
After that I’d say Burrow is the last candidate, who some are super high on, but throws 45+ times a game and has 11 TD’s all season.... 6 against Cleveland’s “Defense”... Baker haters say hell ya give me Burrow, I haven’t seen enough yet, so I’d say push.
you wanna win right now? Then turn that list on its ear and go for a high powered Vet.
If I were Berry, I’d extend the contract, build my team for two more years, see what he ends up looking like make a call in his 5th year to trade or resign.
Going off that list of swaps and maybes, that puts Baker at about 12-15 QB in the league. I’d say average to above average is a good estimate.Considering the Browns usual “shit sandwich to soggy shit sandwich” QB play....
if the bengals get it right, they will be quite good very soon.....they have a winner at qb for sure.....
-
Guess it depends on how you want to look at it. This team just made the statement they are more worried about the future than they are this year buy doing nothing to fix the defense, so if you break down the top ten, personally there are only 3 QB’s on that list that I would swap for Baker right now...
Mahomes, Watson and Wilson
obviously if you turn back the clock or change team strategy to win now, you’d add in
Brady, Rodgers and Brees
But those guys could be a year or major injury away from being retired.
Carr and Tannehill are a pass, and Allen has some moments but has the accuracy of a knuckle ball in the wind....
Herbert would be a push based on his 5 game career so far.
If you expand out on the next 10, based on the same criteria I’d probably swap Baker for Ryan and probably Dak but I’d have to think pretty hard. Stafford.... meh I don’t know....I’d probably pass.
then the rest of the way out you have guys like Lamar and Murray who kind of have to have a offense tailored to their play style, so I guess it depends with those kind of guys, I have friends that love that kind of play and others that can’t stand it, (I’d hate to have a running type QB and have to hold your breath when he takes hits game after game and their shelf life is questionable)
After that I’d say Burrow is the last candidate, who some are super high on, but throws 45+ times a game and has 11 TD’s all season.... 6 against Cleveland’s “Defense”... Baker haters say hell ya give me Burrow, I haven’t seen enough yet, so I’d say push.
you wanna win right now? Then turn that list on its ear and go for a high powered Vet.
If I were Berry, I’d extend the contract, build my team for two more years, see what he ends up looking like make a call in his 5th year to trade or resign.
Going off that list of swaps and maybes, that puts Baker at about 12-15 QB in the league. I’d say average to above average is a good estimate.Considering the Browns usual “shit sandwich to soggy shit sandwich” QB play....
if the bengals get it right, they will be quite good very soon.....they have a winner at qb for sure.....
if the bengals get it right, they will be quite good very soon.....they have a winner at qb for sure.....
Not only did they just beat a very good TN team, they've been right in every game so far but one. If their coach is at least decent, and Mike Brown can say enough out of the way, Cinci can at least ascend to out of the "clown" realm, into something at least comparable to the earlier Red Rifle era, where they had 5 winning seasons, or the Palmer era, where they were a playoff team, or the Boomer years, where they were a legit winning club.
If I had to guess, I'd predict Burrow will go down as a better QB than Baker, over both careers. But a lot of football to be played before we know. Both are 1st picks overall. Will both be deemed worthy of it?
-
Hold on a full minute. While it can certainly be said Baker is below average, using this list and saying its accurate is asinine.
Especially when considering that it obviously is only factoring in this half a season. But hey, instead of just throwing out this list, lets look at a few to show how truly wrong it is.
Do you believe Carr is the #4 quarterback in the league? Tannehill 5th? Kyle Allen 13th? Mullens 15th? Lamar 22nd? Kyler 23rd? Burrow 26th? Wentz 35th?
In a real perspective, Baker is somewhere around 20.
Seriously, Minshew is RANKED AHEAD of last years MVP, Laat years #1 pick and ROY
If this passes the eye test to you, then you know very little. What my eyes tell me is that you just don't like the Browns. Everything you post is negative. Which is fine, but just go ahead and admit it or don't be offended when you continue to look like you are trolling.
I already said it was not the perfect rating system at the very top. And, you go on to admit Baker is realistically around 20th...there are 32 starting QBs, plus a few who later became starters later. If Baker is 20th, that would put him at below average. So, while claiming to disagree with the premise you then conclude the same thing - that Baker is below average.
I already said it was not the perfect rating system at the very top. And, you go on to admit Baker is realistically around 20th...there are 32 starting QBs, plus a few who later became starters later. If Baker is 20th, that would put him at below average. So, while claiming to disagree with the premise you then conclude the same thing - that Baker is below average.
No pal, I didn't disagree with the overall premise (but there is also a decent size difference in 20 and 27) what I am disagreeing with is the resources you want to use to justify a claim, the exact thing I said about Colin. And you absolutely didn't say "not perfect at the very top", at least not in what I replied to.
YOU are the one who posted this, and this was YOUR WORDS "And looking at the order of the list, it passes my eye test as far as being accurate in determining quality of play. I'd move a few up or down a few spots, but it's pretty on the $.
So, since you want to use the term average literally, we will use the work few literally, which is 3.
Which of these do you agree with?
Carr Top 7
Tannehill Top 8
Herbert Top 11
Josh Allen Top 13
Kyle Allen Top 16
Mullens Top 18
Lamar Highest 19
Kyler Highest Top 20
Wentz Highest 32nd.
See my issue with this and a lot of what you use is that you see one part you agree with and run with it and post. And since part of it is true then it makes it true to you. The same thing with CC. All I am saying is that a single focal point without viewing the entire picture makes you appear to have an agenda and uninformed.
That appears to be the reason when I do get on here and read the responses to you when you post things about OBJ. It appears as if you have an agenda, as CC does with Baker. Its the reason he runs to discredit anything positive and leaps at the chance to post anything negative.
You haven't seen me defend Baker or OBJ, all I have done is point out hypocritical statements.
But let me point out one thing, you can call it defending if you want, but its really not. Since these rankings are based off of this year, 11 of those 26 QBs above Baker have a better record than him. 2 Teams have given up more points than the Browns (one of them winless Jets by 1 Point). 9 teams have scored more than the Browns. So couldn't I use my numbers to make him look A LOT better than 27th?
Now I am positive you don't care how you come off, don't care what others say or reply to you, etc.
-
Eventually, everyone who posts on this forum will realize Icecube is a troll.
-
I already said it was not the perfect rating system at the very top. And, you go on to admit Baker is realistically around 20th...there are 32 starting QBs, plus a few who later became starters later. If Baker is 20th, that would put him at below average. So, while claiming to disagree with the premise you then conclude the same thing - that Baker is below average.
No pal, I didn't disagree with the overall premise (but there is also a decent size difference in 20 and 27) what I am disagreeing with is the resources you want to use to justify a claim, the exact thing I said about Colin. And you absolutely didn't say "not perfect at the very top", at least not in what I replied to.
YOU are the one who posted this, and this was YOUR WORDS "And looking at the order of the list, it passes my eye test as far as being accurate in determining quality of play. I'd move a few up or down a few spots, but it's pretty on the $.
So, since you want to use the term average literally, we will use the work few literally, which is 3.
Which of these do you agree with?
Carr Top 7
Tannehill Top 8
Herbert Top 11
Josh Allen Top 13
Kyle Allen Top 16
Mullens Top 18
Lamar Highest 19
Kyler Highest Top 20
Wentz Highest 32nd.
See my issue with this and a lot of what you use is that you see one part you agree with and run with it and post. And since part of it is true then it makes it true to you. The same thing with CC. All I am saying is that a single focal point without viewing the entire picture makes you appear to have an agenda and uninformed.
That appears to be the reason when I do get on here and read the responses to you when you post things about OBJ. It appears as if you have an agenda, as CC does with Baker. Its the reason he runs to discredit anything positive and leaps at the chance to post anything negative.
You haven't seen me defend Baker or OBJ, all I have done is point out hypocritical statements.
But let me point out one thing, you can call it defending if you want, but its really not. Since these rankings are based off of this year, 11 of those 26 QBs above Baker have a better record than him. 2 Teams have given up more points than the Browns (one of them winless Jets by 1 Point). 9 teams have scored more than the Browns. So couldn't I use my numbers to make him look A LOT better than 27th?
Now I am positive you don't care how you come off, don't care what others say or reply to you, etc.
No pal, I didn't disagree with the overall premise (but there is also a decent size difference in 20 and 27) what I am disagreeing with is the resources you want to use to justify a claim, the exact thing I said about Colin. And you absolutely didn't say "not perfect at the very top", at least not in what I replied to.
YOU are the one who posted this, and this was YOUR WORDS "And looking at the order of the list, it passes my eye test as far as being accurate in determining quality of play. I'd move a few up or down a few spots, but it's pretty on the $.
So, since you want to use the term average literally, we will use the work few literally, which is 3.
Which of these do you agree with?
Carr Top 7
Tannehill Top 8
Herbert Top 11
Josh Allen Top 13
Kyle Allen Top 16
Mullens Top 18
Lamar Highest 19
Kyler Highest Top 20
Wentz Highest 32nd.
See my issue with this and a lot of what you use is that you see one part you agree with and run with it and post. And since part of it is true then it makes it true to you. The same thing with CC. All I am saying is that a single focal point without viewing the entire picture makes you appear to have an agenda and uninformed.
That appears to be the reason when I do get on here and read the responses to you when you post things about OBJ. It appears as if you have an agenda, as CC does with Baker. Its the reason he runs to discredit anything positive and leaps at the chance to post anything negative.
You haven't seen me defend Baker or OBJ, all I have done is point out hypocritical statements.
But let me point out one thing, you can call it defending if you want, but its really not. Since these rankings are based off of this year, 11 of those 26 QBs above Baker have a better record than him. 2 Teams have given up more points than the Browns (one of them winless Jets by 1 Point). 9 teams have scored more than the Browns. So couldn't I use my numbers to make him look A LOT better than 27th?
Now I am positive you don't care how you come off, don't care what others say or reply to you, etc.
You got that part right. It's just not that important to me. These are just anonymous names in cyberspace about a sport that, come the end of the day, isn't that meaningful. It is entertainment, as is posting on sports message boards.
I don't have the time or desire to "prove things" on the level of a court of law. As a matter of fact. I would normally base my assessment purely on the "eye test" and leave it at that, not even bothering to go into data such as QB rating. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Everyone is allowed to support previous opinions. But at the end of the day, of you use a first overall pick on any player, they really should be at least top 5 amongst their position by their 3rd season, not even in a debate about being at least average. If you think Baker is better than all but 4 QBs, then God bless, son. You have the right to your opinion. Mahomes, Russell, Rogers, Brady, Big Ben, Dak, Brees, Wentz, Carr, Herbert, Murray, etc. may not agree, but hey man, we all have our opinions.
-
No pal, I didn't disagree with the overall premise (but there is also a decent size difference in 20 and 27) what I am disagreeing with is the resources you want to use to justify a claim, the exact thing I said about Colin. And you absolutely didn't say "not perfect at the very top", at least not in what I replied to.
YOU are the one who posted this, and this was YOUR WORDS "And looking at the order of the list, it passes my eye test as far as being accurate in determining quality of play. I'd move a few up or down a few spots, but it's pretty on the $.
So, since you want to use the term average literally, we will use the work few literally, which is 3.
Which of these do you agree with?
Carr Top 7
Tannehill Top 8
Herbert Top 11
Josh Allen Top 13
Kyle Allen Top 16
Mullens Top 18
Lamar Highest 19
Kyler Highest Top 20
Wentz Highest 32nd.
See my issue with this and a lot of what you use is that you see one part you agree with and run with it and post. And since part of it is true then it makes it true to you. The same thing with CC. All I am saying is that a single focal point without viewing the entire picture makes you appear to have an agenda and uninformed.
That appears to be the reason when I do get on here and read the responses to you when you post things about OBJ. It appears as if you have an agenda, as CC does with Baker. Its the reason he runs to discredit anything positive and leaps at the chance to post anything negative.
You haven't seen me defend Baker or OBJ, all I have done is point out hypocritical statements.
But let me point out one thing, you can call it defending if you want, but its really not. Since these rankings are based off of this year, 11 of those 26 QBs above Baker have a better record than him. 2 Teams have given up more points than the Browns (one of them winless Jets by 1 Point). 9 teams have scored more than the Browns. So couldn't I use my numbers to make him look A LOT better than 27th?
Now I am positive you don't care how you come off, don't care what others say or reply to you, etc.
You got that part right. It's just not that important to me. These are just anonymous names in cyberspace about a sport that, come the end of the day, isn't that meaningful. It is entertainment, as is posting on sports message boards.
I don't have the time or desire to "prove things" on the level of a court of law. As a matter of fact. I would normally base my assessment purely on the "eye test" and leave it at that, not even bothering to go into data such as QB rating. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Everyone is allowed to support previous opinions. But at the end of the day, of you use a first overall pick on any player, they really should be at least top 5 amongst their position by their 3rd season, not even in a debate about being at least average. If you think Baker is better than all but 4 QBs, then God bless, son. You have the right to your opinion. Mahomes, Russell, Rogers, Brady, Big Ben, Dak, Brees, Wentz, Carr, Herbert, Murray, etc. may not agree, but hey man, we all have our opinions.
I don't have the time or desire to "prove things"
And that's why your opinions are horse shit.
You lack the curiosity to learn new things.. which means you have zero actual understanding of anything you're blathering on about.. because you've never done the hard work to learn anything about sports [specifically football] or education or for that matter life in general.
Sure, you clearly have pride in yourself - but what is that pride based on? Your opinions are ridiculously uninformed nonsense. You have a right to an opinion, but not a right to someone else's respect as a result of [or agreement with] that opinion.
We are all dumber for reading anything you post.
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
No pal, I didn't disagree with the overall premise (but there is also a decent size difference in 20 and 27) what I am disagreeing with is the resources you want to use to justify a claim, the exact thing I said about Colin. And you absolutely didn't say "not perfect at the very top", at least not in what I replied to.
YOU are the one who posted this, and this was YOUR WORDS "And looking at the order of the list, it passes my eye test as far as being accurate in determining quality of play. I'd move a few up or down a few spots, but it's pretty on the $.
So, since you want to use the term average literally, we will use the work few literally, which is 3.
Which of these do you agree with?
Carr Top 7
Tannehill Top 8
Herbert Top 11
Josh Allen Top 13
Kyle Allen Top 16
Mullens Top 18
Lamar Highest 19
Kyler Highest Top 20
Wentz Highest 32nd.
See my issue with this and a lot of what you use is that you see one part you agree with and run with it and post. And since part of it is true then it makes it true to you. The same thing with CC. All I am saying is that a single focal point without viewing the entire picture makes you appear to have an agenda and uninformed.
That appears to be the reason when I do get on here and read the responses to you when you post things about OBJ. It appears as if you have an agenda, as CC does with Baker. Its the reason he runs to discredit anything positive and leaps at the chance to post anything negative.
You haven't seen me defend Baker or OBJ, all I have done is point out hypocritical statements.
But let me point out one thing, you can call it defending if you want, but its really not. Since these rankings are based off of this year, 11 of those 26 QBs above Baker have a better record than him. 2 Teams have given up more points than the Browns (one of them winless Jets by 1 Point). 9 teams have scored more than the Browns. So couldn't I use my numbers to make him look A LOT better than 27th?
Now I am positive you don't care how you come off, don't care what others say or reply to you, etc.
You got that part right. It's just not that important to me. These are just anonymous names in cyberspace about a sport that, come the end of the day, isn't that meaningful. It is entertainment, as is posting on sports message boards.
I don't have the time or desire to "prove things" on the level of a court of law. As a matter of fact. I would normally base my assessment purely on the "eye test" and leave it at that, not even bothering to go into data such as QB rating. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Everyone is allowed to support previous opinions. But at the end of the day, of you use a first overall pick on any player, they really should be at least top 5 amongst their position by their 3rd season, not even in a debate about being at least average. If you think Baker is better than all but 4 QBs, then God bless, son. You have the right to your opinion. Mahomes, Russell, Rogers, Brady, Big Ben, Dak, Brees, Wentz, Carr, Herbert, Murray, etc. may not agree, but hey man, we all have our opinions.
You got that part right. It's just not that important to me. These are just anonymous names in cyberspace about a sport that, come the end of the day, isn't that meaningful. It is entertainment, as is posting on sports message boards.
I don't have the time or desire to "prove things" on the level of a court of law. As a matter of fact. I would normally base my assessment purely on the "eye test" and leave it at that, not even bothering to go into data such as QB rating. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Everyone is allowed to support previous opinions. But at the end of the day, of you use a first overall pick on any player, they really should be at least top 5 amongst their position by their 3rd season, not even in a debate about being at least average. If you think Baker is better than all but 4 QBs, then God bless, son. You have the right to your opinion. Mahomes, Russell, Rogers, Brady, Big Ben, Dak, Brees, Wentz, Carr, Herbert, Murray, etc. may not agree, but hey man, we all have our opinions.
You see sir, NOBODY has said he is in the Top 5. But you just completely blew up and proved my point in this last message.
Again, YOU said this passes your eye test on accuracy. And in this last message you listed 11 QBs, one of which is listed EIGTH SPOTS BEHIND BAKER in your original post.
But let's go ahead and go off your ASSumption that by year 3 a guy should be Top 5 at his position. Let's use the NFL Top 100 players as a reference.
QB: Lamar, Russell, Mahomes, Brees, Brady. Others who then wouldn't be worth it based on YOUR STATEMENT- Rodgers, Watson, Dak, Cousins Tannehill, J Allen, Kyler (take him out as 2nd year)
RB: McCaffrey, Henry, Cook, Zeke, Barkley. Others- Jones, Chubb, Kamara, Ingram, Gurley, Jacobs (2nd year)
WR: Thomas, Hopkins, Jones, Hill, Evans. Others who aren't "Top 5"- Godwin, Cooper, Diggs, Adams, OBJ, Landry, Lockett, Fitzgerald, Allen, Metcalf (2nd year), Kupp, Robinson
DL: Donald, N Bosa, Jordan, J Bosa, Hunter. Those not Top 5- Clowney, JJ Watt, Jones, Buckner, Casey, Cox, Campbell, MYLES GARRETT, Heyward, Jarrett, Clark
LB: Wagner, Jones, Mack, TJ Watt, Miller. Those unworthy guys- Barrett, Z Smith, Leonard, P Smith, Davis, Warner, Kendricks, Smith, David
DB: Gilmore, Adams, Sherman, Fitzpatrick, Ramsey. Not Top 5- Mathieu, White, Peters, Ryan, Smith, Thomas, Lattimore, Humphrey, Slay, B Baker
Now do you see how ridiculous you sound by using Top 5. And by the way, these are voted on by the PLAYERS. SINCE they have been in the league at least 3 years, by your own words then this is a terrible team
Aaron Rodgers, Alvin Kamara, Chris Godwin, Devante Adams, Chandler Jones, Myles Garrett, Shaq Barrett, Tredavious White and Marlon Humphrey
All you had to do was admit that you were wrong in equating the entire list as being accurate, but nope, just like you do with Browns players and posts you dug and made it look even worse.
-
I don't have the time or desire to "prove things"
And that's why your opinions are horse shit.
You lack the curiosity to learn new things.. which means you have zero actual understanding of anything you're blathering on about.. because you've never done the hard work to learn anything about sports [specifically football] or education or for that matter life in general.
Sure, you clearly have pride in yourself - but what is that pride based on? Your opinions are ridiculously uninformed nonsense. You have a right to an opinion, but not a right to someone else's respect as a result of [or agreement with] that opinion.
We are all dumber for reading anything you post.
.. because you've never done the hard work to learn anything about sports [specifically football] or education
Don't forget Statistics!
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login