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Is time bringing OBJ question more into focus?

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  • BarryB Barry

    Here is an article by Brent Sobleski on Twitter where he admits that there has been enough time, i.e. games, to where it is becoming clear that the Browns are a better team without OBJ. The stats are all there, and the eye test is there also. Baker scans the field better, he throws to more receivers (9 in the first half alone against the Titans), and of course the wins are there.

    The strongest argument for keeping OBJ, imo, is that it isn't OBJ not being in the lineup that has made Baker improve, it is Baker getting used to the system. But even if that's true and Baker shows that the Titans game was not an aberration but the norm my feeling is that, from a money/cap perspective and a trade value perspective, we would get more value trading OBJ than keeping him on the team.

    I look at it this way. In this system does it make much sense that we pay so much $ to a guy that will catch 65 passes for 1,100 yards tops? (Because if he is catching a lot more passes than that then the balance between the receivers and the offense start to skew) And while OBJ's value is down because of his injury, imagine what his value will be next year if we find out that he IS the reason for Baker not being successful, and we decide to unload him at that time. It will be the middle of the season and teams will know that we need to unload him.

    https://t.co/8xR6GRwCiq?amp=1

    @barry said:

    Here is an article by Brent Sobleski on Twitter where he admits that there has been enough time, i.e. games, to where it is becoming clear that the Browns are a better team without OBJ. The stats are all there, and the eye test is there also.

    https://t.co/8xR6GRwCiq?amp=1

    I've been declaring this since before the season even started. The only game they lost since OBJ has been out was the game with the torrential downpour. When OBJ was on the field, Baker felt the pressure to get him the ball; when not, he throws to whoever is open. And what a difference it has been. 

  • With OBJ we could be legit SB contenders even with this defense (KC's SB winning defense wasn't that great, fricking Ogbah was one of their best playmakers lol). OBJ is a WR swiss knife, can play all receiver positions and the opposing defense ALWAYS has to gameplan against him. I've liked Sobleski's work in the past but in this case I disagree with him.

  • I Icecube

    @the-gipper said:

    Men, I don't see any men.  Certainly not where you are concerned, boy. 

    Besides, I said between 10-15.   You can elevate him if you would like to 10

    Name 9 better HCs than Hoodie. 

    @icecube said:

    Name 9 better HCs than Hoodie. 

    I did in another thread. Find it. 

  • Dutch OvenD Dutch Oven

    @the-gipper said:

    Well, I think they have wholly underused Hooper and maybe all their TEs....especially since OBJ went down. 

    I would kind of like to see a "spread sheet", i.e.   how they have distributed their passes....spread them out that is, between each position,  WRs, TEs, RBs. 

    I wonder if anyone has a link or something to that. 

    That's a very big surprise from this season. I really expected this to be an offense that uses their TEs a lot. Most games, they are an afterthought. 

    @dutch-oven said:

    That's a very big surprise from this season. I really expected this to be an offense that uses their TEs a lot. Most games, they are an afterthought. 

    eh, hooper played here in atlanta and he was ok....he is not a kittle or the big dude with lv..not even close....then there is ajokeu...he stinks....the other te number 88 drops passes and fumbles the ball.....we probably still need a good te....maybe in the draft.....

    👍

  • I don’t know if their overall passing game has improved without Beckham, but Jarvis Landry certainly has benefited from his absence.

    From some guys that matter...  

     
     Khadarel Hodge with D. Ward will be out this week 😐... Landry/Higgins/Peoples & a newbie Marvin Hall are all we have on active 53 at this time.. to be continued.  
    Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends

  • Nobody is considering the public statements of Baker -- they were just figuring out Stef's new system when OBJ's injury happened.  First couple wks of this season were like the preseason as far as installing it.

    The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown
    👍
  • U Unsympathetic

    Nobody is considering the public statements of Baker -- they were just figuring out Stef's new system when OBJ's injury happened.  First couple wks of this season were like the preseason as far as installing it.

    @unsympathetic said:

    First couple wks of this season were like the preseason as far as installing it.

    I'd go up to at least four games. Even with a normal pre-season Belichick considers the first four weeks of the regular season to be a trial period. Of course, what does he know? 😉

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
    😂

  • I'm not gonna say the refs were biased but they might have gotten them from group homes in this weird covid season. 

    I mean stefanski had to throw a challenge flag to get them to acknowledge when the ravens had 15 defenders on the field. 

    Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind...
    👍
  • T The Cysko Kid

    I'm not gonna say the refs were biased but they might have gotten them from group homes in this weird covid season. 

    I mean stefanski had to throw a challenge flag to get them to acknowledge when the ravens had 15 defenders on the field. 

    @the-cysko-kid said:

    I'm not gonna say the refs were biased but they might have gotten them from group homes in this weird covid season. 

    I mean stefanski had to throw a challenge flag to get them to acknowledge when the ravens had 15 defenders on the field. 

    I thought it was 14 but who's counting...... not the refs.   😆

    GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND!
    😂

  • Time does bring the OBJ question into focus.

    We really needed him last night -- nobody else was able to consistently beat tight man coverage.  OBJ is that good, whether anyone likes to admit it or not.  And he'd have turned many of those drops into catches.

    Put him on the Browns last night and it's a W.

    The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown
  • U Unsympathetic

    Time does bring the OBJ question into focus.

    We really needed him last night -- nobody else was able to consistently beat tight man coverage.  OBJ is that good, whether anyone likes to admit it or not.  And he'd have turned many of those drops into catches.

    Put him on the Browns last night and it's a W.

    @unsympathetic said:

    Time does bring the OBJ question into focus.

    We really needed him last night -- nobody else was able to consistently beat tight man coverage.  OBJ is that good, whether anyone likes to admit it or not.  And he'd have turned many of those drops into catches.

    Put him on the Browns last night and it's a W.

    Yea, because 42 points is just not enough to win with our shitty defense. 

    👍

  • I overall agree with the article. That’s not a dig on OBJ. Je is without a doubt an elite talent. It’s a dig on Baker who can’t view OBJ as just another target. He forces the ball to him and it causes issues. 

    👍
  • jcam222J jcam222

    I overall agree with the article. That’s not a dig on OBJ. Je is without a doubt an elite talent. It’s a dig on Baker who can’t view OBJ as just another target. He forces the ball to him and it causes issues. 

    @jcam222 said:

    I overall agree with the article. That’s not a dig on OBJ. Je is without a doubt an elite talent. It’s a dig on Baker who can’t view OBJ as just another target. He forces the ball to him and it causes issues. 

    I think a bigger issue was simply Baker adapting to the Stefanski system than "worrying about OBJ".    I wish we had him back in there now that Baker seems to be so much better inculcated with the system.  I believe with him it would hum right along. 

    Dutch OvenD jiggins7919J 2 Replies
    👍
  • The GipperT The Gipper

    @jcam222 said:

    I overall agree with the article. That’s not a dig on OBJ. Je is without a doubt an elite talent. It’s a dig on Baker who can’t view OBJ as just another target. He forces the ball to him and it causes issues. 

    I think a bigger issue was simply Baker adapting to the Stefanski system than "worrying about OBJ".    I wish we had him back in there now that Baker seems to be so much better inculcated with the system.  I believe with him it would hum right along. 

    @the-gipper said:

    I think a bigger issue was simply Baker adapting to the Stefanski system than "worrying about OBJ".    I wish we had him back in there now that Baker seems to be so much better inculcated with the system.  I believe with him it would hum right along. 

    Baker "hummed along" without OBJ his rookie season, when he broke the rookie record for touchdown passes. 

    He then regressed from that last season with OBJ on the team, and was pretty mediocre this season with him. 

    Then he immediately has the game of his career in the game OBJ has a season-ending injury. 

    OrionO The GipperT 2 Replies
    👍
  • The GipperT The Gipper

    @jcam222 said:

    I overall agree with the article. That’s not a dig on OBJ. Je is without a doubt an elite talent. It’s a dig on Baker who can’t view OBJ as just another target. He forces the ball to him and it causes issues. 

    I think a bigger issue was simply Baker adapting to the Stefanski system than "worrying about OBJ".    I wish we had him back in there now that Baker seems to be so much better inculcated with the system.  I believe with him it would hum right along. 

    @the-gipper said:

    I think a bigger issue was simply Baker adapting to the Stefanski system than "worrying about OBJ".    I wish we had him back in there now that Baker seems to be so much better inculcated with the system.  I believe with him it would hum right along. 

    I totally agree. I think we'd have a deadly deep threat that with OBJ. I really do. 

    Dutch OvenD I 2 Replies
  • Dutch OvenD Dutch Oven

    @the-gipper said:

    I think a bigger issue was simply Baker adapting to the Stefanski system than "worrying about OBJ".    I wish we had him back in there now that Baker seems to be so much better inculcated with the system.  I believe with him it would hum right along. 

    Baker "hummed along" without OBJ his rookie season, when he broke the rookie record for touchdown passes. 

    He then regressed from that last season with OBJ on the team, and was pretty mediocre this season with him. 

    Then he immediately has the game of his career in the game OBJ has a season-ending injury. 

    @dutch-oven said:

    Baker "hummed along" without OBJ his rookie season, when he broke the rookie record for touchdown passes. 

    He then regressed from that last season with OBJ on the team,  Freddie Kitchens   and was pretty mediocre this season with him.   Tough defenses early on in the schedule

    Then he immediately has the game of his career in the game OBJ has a season-ending injury.   Bengals defense

    Perhaps there's a chemistry problem with Baker when OBJ is on the field.  Or, perhaps he knows how good OBJ is and figures, if all else fails, force it towards OBJ and he might make a great catch for you.  And as long as he's putting the ball where it shouldn't be intercepted, then it's better than taking a sack or throwing it into the stands.  As I recall, I felt he tried to force it too much to Landry in his rookie year....but that would stand to reason if he was your best 'great catch' type of guy.

    I just can't (almost refuse) to believe that we're a better team with lesser talent.  (so long as that talent isn't a dick...and OBJ just seems like one, but isn't, according to any player he has played with)

    BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE
  • OrionO Orion

    @dutch-oven said:

    Baker "hummed along" without OBJ his rookie season, when he broke the rookie record for touchdown passes. 

    He then regressed from that last season with OBJ on the team,  Freddie Kitchens   and was pretty mediocre this season with him.   Tough defenses early on in the schedule

    Then he immediately has the game of his career in the game OBJ has a season-ending injury.   Bengals defense

    Perhaps there's a chemistry problem with Baker when OBJ is on the field.  Or, perhaps he knows how good OBJ is and figures, if all else fails, force it towards OBJ and he might make a great catch for you.  And as long as he's putting the ball where it shouldn't be intercepted, then it's better than taking a sack or throwing it into the stands.  As I recall, I felt he tried to force it too much to Landry in his rookie year....but that would stand to reason if he was your best 'great catch' type of guy.

    I just can't (almost refuse) to believe that we're a better team with lesser talent.  (so long as that talent isn't a dick...and OBJ just seems like one, but isn't, according to any player he has played with)

    @orion said:

    I just can't (almost refuse) to believe that we're a better team with lesser talent.  (so long as that talent isn't a dick...and OBJ just seems like one, but isn't, according to any player he has played with)

    I get it, it doesn't make sense.

    But man, the numbers seem to say it could very well be true. 

    D BoneD 1 Reply
  • Dutch OvenD Dutch Oven

    @the-gipper said:

    I think a bigger issue was simply Baker adapting to the Stefanski system than "worrying about OBJ".    I wish we had him back in there now that Baker seems to be so much better inculcated with the system.  I believe with him it would hum right along. 

    Baker "hummed along" without OBJ his rookie season, when he broke the rookie record for touchdown passes. 

    He then regressed from that last season with OBJ on the team, and was pretty mediocre this season with him. 

    Then he immediately has the game of his career in the game OBJ has a season-ending injury. 

    @dutch-oven said:

    Baker "hummed along" without OBJ his rookie season, when he broke the rookie record for touchdown passes. 

    He then regressed from that last season with OBJ on the team, and was pretty mediocre this season with him. 

    Then he immediately has the game of his career in the game OBJ has a season-ending injury. 

    What?  Have you become Ice Cube?   You forget that last year there was the Fat Freddy factor. 

    Dutch OvenD 1 Reply
  • Dutch OvenD Dutch Oven

    @orion said:

    I just can't (almost refuse) to believe that we're a better team with lesser talent.  (so long as that talent isn't a dick...and OBJ just seems like one, but isn't, according to any player he has played with)

    I get it, it doesn't make sense.

    But man, the numbers seem to say it could very well be true. 

    @dutch-oven said:

    I get it, it doesn't make sense.

    But man, the numbers seem to say it could very well be true. 

    Don't bring up numbers, facts and other ridiculous stuff in an emotionally based thread you dumbass.  

    I like his blonde hair. 

    😂
  • The GipperT The Gipper

    @dutch-oven said:

    Baker "hummed along" without OBJ his rookie season, when he broke the rookie record for touchdown passes. 

    He then regressed from that last season with OBJ on the team, and was pretty mediocre this season with him. 

    Then he immediately has the game of his career in the game OBJ has a season-ending injury. 

    What?  Have you become Ice Cube?   You forget that last year there was the Fat Freddy factor. 

    @the-gipper said:

    What?  Have you become Ice Cube?   You forget that last year there was the Fat Freddy factor. 

    Or the fact that Baker showed up to his second season fat and unprepared...

    Like I've said before, there's definitely shades of grey to all of this. There can be some legit reasons for the difference between his production with and without OBJ.

    But there's a big difference.

    The GipperT 1 Reply
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