Here is where we are now.
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Best defensive player on the board. Do not care what position, because upgrades are needed across the board.
Not at DI -- Billings/Richardson/Ogun/Elliot is an upgrade over this season and should be at minimum average, could be a strength. Billings sat out the season
Even Edge could be a lot worse -- resign Vernon and gustin/clayborn at 3/4 aren't future stars but will be decent.
Focus on back 7, plenty of those to be had.
Not at DI -- Billings/Richardson/Ogun/Elliot is an upgrade over this season and should be at minimum average, could be a strength. Billings sat out the season
Even Edge could be a lot worse -- resign Vernon and gustin/clayborn at 3/4 aren't future stars but will be decent.
Focus on back 7, plenty of those to be had.
I think O-gun is replaceable. He has leveled off after a promising rookie season. One guy you didn't mention that has shown promise is Taylor, at least in tipping passes. Not sure what kind of run stop grades he is getting.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
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When I find someone who is smarter at football than me.....I will listen. - The Gipper
How about someone more knowledgeable than you? Plenty of those around...
Or is "smarter at" a legal thing? Oh that's right, you couldn't tell me if it was... might be too close to "advice".
I'd call you a Class A Asshole, but you have no class.
When I find someone who is smarter at football than me.....I will listen. - The Gipper
How about someone more knowledgeable than you? Plenty of those around...
Or is "smarter at" a legal thing? Oh that's right, you couldn't tell me if it was... might be too close to "advice".
I'd call you a Class A Asshole, but you have no class.
Better a Class A Asshole than a Class A Kunthole, which is what YOU are.
And I have always acknowledged that a number of you probably know more about talent evaluation than I.....because you study it, and it bores me somewhat...and what I do is go by what better experts than any of you on here say.
I also note that you gave not one word to the issue: Why would a man beast like Barmore be completely discounted by some team because he may not be a "fit"? My response is that if you do that....then I believe it shows a complete lack on knowledge.
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Well...you are now already on my "ignorant" list.
Think about it......you have this Barmore guy. He is 6'5" 315 lbs. Which makes him a Man Monster. But not just that. He was the defensive MVP of the National Championship game. He was 1st team ALL SEC. He made some All American teams. Yet you say that you would cross him off your list for consideration even because he may not "fit" some preconceived plan? Do you think he is a robot, only programmed to do certain things. He is a scentient human being. He is only like 20 years old. I think he may be adaptable to various system some DCs may want to run if he has all that raw natural talent. Now, if he does not have it...that is another thing. But how can one legitimately just cross him off because of some claim of "lack of fit"?
Pretty sure he was talking about Smith, not Barmore
Pretty sure he was talking about Smith, not Barmore
I was talking about Barmore. He responded directly to my comment about Barmore. Here is his statement: If he fits what the Browns are trying to do on defense, yes.
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Not at DI -- Billings/Richardson/Ogun/Elliot is an upgrade over this season and should be at minimum average, could be a strength. Billings sat out the season
Even Edge could be a lot worse -- resign Vernon and gustin/clayborn at 3/4 aren't future stars but will be decent.
Focus on back 7, plenty of those to be had.
I think O-gun is replaceable. He has leveled off after a promising rookie season. One guy you didn't mention that has shown promise is Taylor, at least in tipping passes. Not sure what kind of run stop grades he is getting.
I think O-gun is replaceable. He has leveled off after a promising rookie season. One guy you didn't mention that has shown promise is Taylor, at least in tipping passes. Not sure what kind of run stop grades he is getting.
Yeah I think I am done with Ogunjobi, I was disappointed in his play this year and I think upgrading the interior of the D line needs to be done.
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I think O-gun is replaceable. He has leveled off after a promising rookie season. One guy you didn't mention that has shown promise is Taylor, at least in tipping passes. Not sure what kind of run stop grades he is getting.
Yeah I think I am done with Ogunjobi, I was disappointed in his play this year and I think upgrading the interior of the D line needs to be done.
Yeah I think I am done with Ogunjobi, I was disappointed in his play this year and I think upgrading the interior of the D line needs to be done.
Can you think of a guy we may consider to do that?
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I was talking about Barmore. He responded directly to my comment about Barmore. Here is his statement: If he fits what the Browns are trying to do on defense, yes.
Well you were talking about both.
If Barmore is there, depending on fit (i.e. what have coming back, FA, etc.) Then I certainly would look. But I think that DL was the least of Browns worries on D this year.
I don't see Smith being the next Harvin, but just say Smith is "ranked" 5th and is somehow still available. I don't think he fits the NEED for Browns.
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I was talking about Barmore. He responded directly to my comment about Barmore. Here is his statement: If he fits what the Browns are trying to do on defense, yes.
Well you were talking about both.
If Barmore is there, depending on fit (i.e. what have coming back, FA, etc.) Then I certainly would look. But I think that DL was the least of Browns worries on D this year.
I don't see Smith being the next Harvin, but just say Smith is "ranked" 5th and is somehow still available. I don't think he fits the NEED for Browns.
Well you were talking about both.
If Barmore is there, depending on fit (i.e. what have coming back, FA, etc.) Then I certainly would look. But I think that DL was the least of Browns worries on D this year.
I don't see Smith being the next Harvin, but just say Smith is "ranked" 5th and is somehow still available. I don't think he fits the NEED for Browns.
OK, now, about this "fit".... Y'all seem to be using that term in different contexts. You seem to be saying that "fit" means if we are loaded at a position....say DT, then drafting another DT would not be the most prudent move for the team....given other needs. That I get. But I didn't take it that that is what Dutch was talking about (though, actually, he didn't explain anything about what he was talking about, he just went all PMS). The other "fit" is that supposedly a guy is not the right kind of player for some certain designated scheme that a team wants to run defensively; because he played in a 4-3 rather than a 3-4....or because he is used to playing upright rather than putting his hand on the ground. My contention being that talent supercedes all that. If you can get a guy that can tackle like hell, or rush the passer like hell....you get him if you need him notwithstanding what "system" you may think he is suited for.....and, again, my contention being that you suit your system to your talent...or, especially with like a 20 year old talent like Barmore, you coach him up and have him adapt.
Doesn't that seem fair?
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Well you were talking about both.
If Barmore is there, depending on fit (i.e. what have coming back, FA, etc.) Then I certainly would look. But I think that DL was the least of Browns worries on D this year.
I don't see Smith being the next Harvin, but just say Smith is "ranked" 5th and is somehow still available. I don't think he fits the NEED for Browns.
OK, now, about this "fit".... Y'all seem to be using that term in different contexts. You seem to be saying that "fit" means if we are loaded at a position....say DT, then drafting another DT would not be the most prudent move for the team....given other needs. That I get. But I didn't take it that that is what Dutch was talking about (though, actually, he didn't explain anything about what he was talking about, he just went all PMS). The other "fit" is that supposedly a guy is not the right kind of player for some certain designated scheme that a team wants to run defensively; because he played in a 4-3 rather than a 3-4....or because he is used to playing upright rather than putting his hand on the ground. My contention being that talent supercedes all that. If you can get a guy that can tackle like hell, or rush the passer like hell....you get him if you need him notwithstanding what "system" you may think he is suited for.....and, again, my contention being that you suit your system to your talent...or, especially with like a 20 year old talent like Barmore, you coach him up and have him adapt.
Doesn't that seem fair?
OK, now, about this "fit".... Y'all seem to be using that term in different contexts. You seem to be saying that "fit" means if we are loaded at a position....say DT, then drafting another DT would not be the most prudent move for the team....given other needs. That I get. But I didn't take it that that is what Dutch was talking about (though, actually, he didn't explain anything about what he was talking about, he just went all PMS). The other "fit" is that supposedly a guy is not the right kind of player for some certain designated scheme that a team wants to run defensively; because he played in a 4-3 rather than a 3-4....or because he is used to playing upright rather than putting his hand on the ground. My contention being that talent supercedes all that. If you can get a guy that can tackle like hell, or rush the passer like hell....you get him if you need him notwithstanding what "system" you may think he is suited for.....and, again, my contention being that you suit your system to your talent...or, especially with like a 20 year old talent like Barmore, you coach him up and have him adapt.
Doesn't that seem fair?
Of course. And I don't know what he was meaning?
All I was saying is that from what I read, I guess I assumed that he was talking about Smith not Barmore, since you had talked about both in the thread.
Barmore certainly would be on my board. Smith would be too, but if there is someone comparable to his grade on the defensive side (even if you believe Smith will be better) you want to look at need
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Can you think of a guy we may consider to do that?
Anybody can name names. The GM probably knows. I let O-gun walk. He is a marginal starter at best.
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Well you were talking about both.
If Barmore is there, depending on fit (i.e. what have coming back, FA, etc.) Then I certainly would look. But I think that DL was the least of Browns worries on D this year.
I don't see Smith being the next Harvin, but just say Smith is "ranked" 5th and is somehow still available. I don't think he fits the NEED for Browns.
OK, now, about this "fit".... Y'all seem to be using that term in different contexts. You seem to be saying that "fit" means if we are loaded at a position....say DT, then drafting another DT would not be the most prudent move for the team....given other needs. That I get. But I didn't take it that that is what Dutch was talking about (though, actually, he didn't explain anything about what he was talking about, he just went all PMS). The other "fit" is that supposedly a guy is not the right kind of player for some certain designated scheme that a team wants to run defensively; because he played in a 4-3 rather than a 3-4....or because he is used to playing upright rather than putting his hand on the ground. My contention being that talent supercedes all that. If you can get a guy that can tackle like hell, or rush the passer like hell....you get him if you need him notwithstanding what "system" you may think he is suited for.....and, again, my contention being that you suit your system to your talent...or, especially with like a 20 year old talent like Barmore, you coach him up and have him adapt.
Doesn't that seem fair?
OK, now, about this "fit".... Y'all seem to be using that term in different contexts. You seem to be saying that "fit" means if we are loaded at a position....say DT, then drafting another DT would not be the most prudent move for the team....given other needs. That I get. But I didn't take it that that is what Dutch was talking about (though, actually, he didn't explain anything about what he was talking about, he just went all PMS). The other "fit" is that supposedly a guy is not the right kind of player for some certain designated scheme that a team wants to run defensively; because he played in a 4-3 rather than a 3-4....or because he is used to playing upright rather than putting his hand on the ground. My contention being that talent supercedes all that. If you can get a guy that can tackle like hell, or rush the passer like hell....you get him if you need him notwithstanding what "system" you may think he is suited for.....and, again, my contention being that you suit your system to your talent...or, especially with like a 20 year old talent like Barmore, you coach him up and have him adapt.
Doesn't that seem fair?
Fit is important. Sure, a guy like Donald is going to fit anywhere, but guys like that don't hit FA easily. They go through a few years of being tagged.
DT's come in different shapes and sizes. Smaller, quicker guys are usually 1 gap players. Hit the gap, penetrate, and see what happens. Others are bigger and not as quick and they are 2 gap players. They don't shoot gaps between defenders. They are expected to hold th2 ground where they are lined up, plus the ground maybe 2 yards to each side.
Most do one or the other. Few can do both.
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What would it take to get into the Top Ten?
Our 1st, 2nd, 4th and a 2nd next year?
We don't need a lot of picks right now. Develop what we have and go for Quality over Quantity IMO.
If we can dip into the top ten for a Stud LB, even if it cost us the entire draft, that's what we really need I believe.
The secret of getting ahead is getting started. The secret of getting started is breaking your complex overwhelming tasks into small manageable tasks, and then starting on the first one. -Mark Twain- "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." -Mark Twain- -
Thank you Kevin, Baker, Nick, Jarvis and Kareem for making it possible for threads like this to not be posted until the middle of January, instead of the usual mid October.
Thank you Kevin, Baker, Nick, Jarvis and Kareem for making it possible for threads like this to not be posted until the middle of January, instead of the usual mid October.
Andrew, too?
what do you think? I think it pretty unrealistic, but it may be unrealistic to think barmore is there, but he is listed there according to CBS. Generally speaking, i don't think CBS is very good in their rankings.
Likely very unrealistic, but I only used Smith to make an "anti-draft for need" point.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
What would it take to get into the Top Ten?
Our 1st, 2nd, 4th and a 2nd next year?
We don't need a lot of picks right now. Develop what we have and go for Quality over Quantity IMO.
If we can dip into the top ten for a Stud LB, even if it cost us the entire draft, that's what we really need I believe.
What would it take to get into the Top Ten?
Our 1st, 2nd, 4th and a 2nd next year?
We don't need a lot of picks right now. Develop what we have and go for Quality over Quantity IMO.
If we can dip into the top ten for a Stud LB, even if it cost us the entire draft, that's what we really need I believe.
No Safety? No CB? No DE to bookend MG?
No way in hell Berry is going all in on one pick when we have starter and depth issues on both sides of the ball...
... not to mention a bushel basket of FAs... not all of whom we will be able to sign due to the cap.
We are way more than one LB away... I don't care how studly he is.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
What would it take to get into the Top Ten?
Our 1st, 2nd, 4th and a 2nd next year?
We don't need a lot of picks right now. Develop what we have and go for Quality over Quantity IMO.
If we can dip into the top ten for a Stud LB, even if it cost us the entire draft, that's what we really need I believe.
What would it take to get into the Top Ten?
Our 1st, 2nd, 4th and a 2nd next year?
We don't need a lot of picks right now. Develop what we have and go for Quality over Quantity IMO.
If we can dip into the top ten for a Stud LB, even if it cost us the entire draft, that's what we really need I believe.
You don’t go from 26 to top 10 unless you need a QB
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Thank you Kevin, Baker, Nick, Jarvis and Kareem for making it possible for threads like this to not be posted until the middle of January, instead of the usual mid October.
Andrew, too?
what do you think? I think it pretty unrealistic, but it may be unrealistic to think barmore is there, but he is listed there according to CBS. Generally speaking, i don't think CBS is very good in their rankings.
Likely very unrealistic, but I only used Smith to make an "anti-draft for need" point.
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What would it take to get into the Top Ten?
Our 1st, 2nd, 4th and a 2nd next year?
We don't need a lot of picks right now. Develop what we have and go for Quality over Quantity IMO.
If we can dip into the top ten for a Stud LB, even if it cost us the entire draft, that's what we really need I believe.
What would it take to get into the Top Ten?
Our 1st, 2nd, 4th and a 2nd next year?
We don't need a lot of picks right now. Develop what we have and go for Quality over Quantity IMO.
If we can dip into the top ten for a Stud LB, even if it cost us the entire draft, that's what we really need I believe.
Yea, and you are way off too.
The Chiefs trade (27 to 10) was #27, 3rd round pick, and next year #1.
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Gumby draft trivia.... It's 2014...
The Browns traded down and than back up from what draft slot number to pick a QB from Texas A&M at pick #22... Can ya name the prior pick slot & team we traded up with?
Trade ups Beware
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends Team Brotherhood-"It's not about You,Me or I. It's about building We"..Hue Jackson -
Gumby draft trivia.... It's 2014...
The Browns traded down and than back up from what draft slot number to pick a QB from Texas A&M at pick #22... Can ya name the prior pick slot & team we traded up with?
Trade ups Beware
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
Maybe they could trade it for a second round pick ? Two thirds ?
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