The "It's-later-than-you-think" 2021 Mock Draft Thread

[gumby73]

@tiamat63 said:

I forgot to ask - you took Kary Vincent in the 3rd.  How far above his current projected draft stock was that for your particular simulation? 

 on the 1st pick site.. In the past 2 weeks, Kary has gone from a easy 5th round pick at our pick #169. To a earlier 4th, than the browns pick at, in the 4th.. I sat on it, and missed on him twice in the 4th at picks #111(4.5) or #131... TDN now has Vincent ranked as their 119th prospect... 

You saw what happen to Chinn's stock after your post last season? GM's must have you bugged .. keep grinding & finding...?

[tiamat63]

@gumby73 said:

 on the 1st pick site.. In the past 2 weeks, Kary has gone from a easy 5th round pick at our pick #169. To a earlier 4th, than the browns pick at, in the 4th.. I sat on it, and missed on him twice in the 4th at picks #111(4.5) or #131... TDN now has Vincent ranked as their 119th prospect... 

You saw what happen to Chinn's stock after your post last season? GM's must have you bugged .. keep grinding & finding...?

.... They're onto me.

[Unsympathetic]

Watkins is arguably winning the senior bowl right now. Johnson talks about being a first rounder. This one from tdn only "misses" on odeyingbo instead of basham

26.  Zaven Collins LB, Tulsa
58.  Dayo Odeyingbo EDGE, Vanderbilt
89.  Hamsah Nasirildeen S, Florida State
91.  Kary Vincent Jr. CB, LSU
110. Justin Hilliard LB, Ohio State
130. Tedarrell Slaton IDL, Florida
168. Patrick Johnson EDGE, Tulane
206. Austin Watkins WR, UAB
250. Lorenzo Neal IDL, Purdue

[tiamat63]

@dutch-oven said:

I saw another mock that had Patrick Jones II as the Browns #26 overall pick. I'm curious to where most draft sites have him.

Watching some of his 2020 right now.

He's like a bigger version of Alex Highsmith from last year.   Maybe not as technical or refined in his counter move, and his dip & bend at the edge hasn't really been on display yet.    But he has a hell of a first step, long arms and a relentless motor.  

edit:  Looks a bit like Bud Dupree when the Steelers drafted him.  In terms of his abilities vis a vis his raw style that needs time and coaching.

[Unsympathetic]

Reading this article in DBN suggests LB won't be our first or second round pick due to our actual alignments not looking at a "4-3".. Certainly could be with whoever's left in the 3rd, but not high.  Note, of course, that TDN moved Wade's listed position to "base defense strong safety/big nickel" but has left him in the CB list.

Marco Wilson was somehow picked by McShay to be a top50 player.

26.  Kadarius Toney WR, Florida
58.  Levi Onwuzurike IDL, Washington
89.  Hamsah Nasirildeen S, Florida State
91.  Kary Vincent Jr. CB, LSU
110. Patrick Jones II EDGE, Pittsburgh
130. Justin Hilliard LB, Ohio State
168. Shi Smith WR, South Carolina
206. Marco Wilson CB, Florida
250. Tuf Borland LB, Ohio State

[The Gipper]

Current Mock Draft Database Top 5 selections:

NFL Mock Draft Site	Date	No. 1	No. 2	No. 3	No. 4	No. 5
WalterFootball.com: Charlie Campbell's 2021 NFL Mock Draft	1/29	T.Lawrence	Z.Wilson	J.Chase	J.Fields	P.Sewell
WalterFootball.com: 2021 NFL Mock Draft	1/28	T.Lawrence	J.Fields	D.Smith	Z.Wilson	P.Sewell
CBS Sports: Edwards	1/28	T.Lawrence	Z.Wilson	J.Fields	R.Slater	P.Sewell
The Sports Bank's 2021 NFL Mock Draft	1/27	T.Lawrence	J.Fields	P.Sewell	Z.Wilson	M.Parsons
Alpha Football	1/27	T.Lawrence	J.Fields	P.Sewell	Z.Wilson	J.Chase
San Diego U~T	1/27	T.Lawrence	P.Sewell	J.Chase	J.Fields	K.Pitts
CBS Sports: Trapasso	1/27	T.Lawrence	Z.Wilson	D.Smith	P.Surtain	P.Sewell
Draft Tek	1/27	T.Lawrence	P.Sewell	J.Chase	J.Fields	P.Surtain
Riggo's Rag	1/26	T.Lawrence	J.Fields	D.Smith	Z.Wilson	P.Sewell
The Big Lead	1/26	T.Lawrence	P.Sewell	D.Smith	Z.Wilson	R.Slater
The Game Haus	1/26	T.Lawrence	J.Fields	D.Smith	M.Parsons	P.Sewell
CBS Sports: Wilson	1/26	T.Lawrence	Z.Wilson	M.Parsons	P.Sewell	R.Slater
Draft ID	1/25	T.Lawrence	P.Sewell	A.Ojulari	D.Smith	R.Slater
Draft Blaster	1/25	T.Lawrence	P.Sewell	D.Smith	K.Pitts	C.Darrisaw
Tankathon	1/24	T.Lawrence	Z.Wilson	D.Smith	J.Fields	P.Sewell
WalterFootball.com: Charlie Campbell's 2022 NFL Mock Draft	1/23	T.Shough	D.Leal	J.Ross	P.Winfrey	D.Stingley
Football Nick	1/21	T.Lawrence	Z.Wilson	J.Chase	J.Fields	P.Sewell
Sports Gaming Rosters	1/19	T.Lawrence	J.Fields	P.Sewell	Z.Wilson	D.Smith
MDB: Noheroes94	1/18	T.Lawrence	Z.Wilson	D.Smith	J.Fields	P.Sewell
NFL Draft Blitz's 2021	1/18	T.Lawrence	Z.Wilson	J.Chase	C.Barmore	P.Sewell
NFL Spin Zone	1/18	T.Lawrence	J.Fields	P.Sewell	Z.Wilson	R.Slater
MDB: Mecha	1/15	T.Lawrence	D.Smith	J.Chase	G.Rousseau	P.Sewell
EDS Football	1/15	T.Lawrence	J.Fields	J.Chase	Z.Wilson	P.Sewell
Fueled by Sports' 2021	1/15	T.Lawrence	J.Fields	D.Smith	M.Jones	P.Sewell
MDB: Kkunert	1/14	T.Lawrence	J.Fields	P.Sewell	J.Chase	D.Smith
NFL Draft Room	1/11	T.Lawrence	Z.Wilson	D.Smith	P.Sewell	J.Chase
Sportsnaut	1/18	T.Lawrence	Z.Wilson	J.Fields	P.Surtain	P.Sewell
NFL Mocks	1/9	T.Lawrence	J.Fields	Z.Wilson	M.Parsons	P.Sewell
Fantasy Six Pack	1/7	T.Lawrence	P.Sewell	J.Fields	Z.Wilson	R.Slater
Fox Sports	1/7	T.Lawrence	Z.Wilson	P.Sewell	K.Paye	M.Parsons
Loaded Box Podcast	1/6	T.Lawrence	J.Fields	J.Chase	Z.Wilson	P.Sewell
Football Fanspot	1/6	T.Lawrence	J.Fields	P.Sewell	P.Surtain	M.Parsons
WalterFootball.com: Overreaction Mock Draft	1/4	T.Lawrence	J.Fields	Z.Wilson	P.Sewell	K.Pitts
PFF	1/4	T.Lawrence	Z.Wilson	P.Sewell	J.Fields	J.Chase
SBNation	1/4	T.Lawrence	P.Sewell	D.Smith	J.Fields	J.Chase
MDB: Pressley	1/1	T.Lawrence	Z.Wilson	P.Sewell	J.Fields	J.Chase

[TexasAg1969]

^^^^^^^ Gip's above links.

Walter 1.          #26  Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah  OLB, Notre Dame

Walter 2.          #26  Carlos Basham, DE/DT, Wake Forest  

CBS:Edwards #26 Jayson Oweh EDGE Penn State 

Sport's Banks #26 Christian Barmore, DL, Alabama 

Alpha               #26 NICK BOLTON - LB - MISSOURI  

San Diego       #26 Zaven Collins, LB, Tulsa 

CBS:Trapasso #26 Azeez Ojulari LB, Georgia 

Draftek            #26 Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, Notre Dame OLB 

Riggo's Rag    #26 Zaven Collins LB Tulsa 

Big Lead         #26 Zaven Collins LB Tulsa   

Game Haus   #26 Tyson Campbell, CB, Georgia 

CBS: Wilson  #26 Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah LB Notre Dame

Draft ID          #26 Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah | Notre Dame, LB 

Draft Blaster #26 Gregory Rousseau, DE, Miami

Tankathon    #26 Joseph Ossai OLB Texas

Walter 2022   #2 DeMarvin Leal DE Texas A&M  -  LOLOLOLOLOL (you put it there Gip-so I had to).? 

Football Nick #26 Jaelan Phillips  DE  Miami-Fl  

Spts Gaming #26 Carlos Basham,jr. DE Wake Fores

NDB              #26 Jevon Holland, Safety, Oregon  Draft Blitz    #26 LB Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah (Notre Dame)  Spin Zone    #26 Jaelan Phillips  DE  Miami-Fl    MDB Mecca #26 Kadarius Toney, Wide Receiver, Florida  EDS               #26 Zaven Collins, LB, Tulsa  Fueled BS    #26 Kadarius Toney WR Florida MDB kkunert #26 Eric Stokes CB Georgia Draft Room #26 Jay Tufele (DT) – USC  Sports Naut #26 Zaven Collins, LB, Tulsa NFL Mocks #26 Rashod BatemanWR Minnesota  Fox                #23 Joseph Ossai, Edge, Texas  (trade)  Loaded         #23 Joseph Ossai, Edge, Texas  (trade)  Fanspot        #23 DE Patrick Jones (Pittsburgh) (trade)  Overreaction #23 Carlos Basham, 3-4DE, Wake Fores (trade) SBNation      #23 Nick Bolton, LB, Missouri (trade)   MDB:Pressley #22 Shaun Wade, Cornerback, Ohio State (trade) -Note : tia's favorite.  LOL!

[The Gipper]

Thanks.  I thought about digging deeper into that to see what they had the Browns taking but I was not patient enough to take the time to do so. 

[Unsympathetic]

May slightly change draft strategies -- Latest news from Stefanski is expectation of full recovery for Greedy and Delpit with no long-term effects.  Greedy may be a CB3 moving forward and in a 4-2-5 he's still a starter.

Sure, Stefanski could be talking his book -- or he might just be truthful.. It's Monday, I'm optimistic about the week.

[Axe]

Yeah, so am I...

Go Bucs!!! Go Browns!!

[The Gipper]

@unsympathetic said:

May slightly change draft strategies -- Latest news from Stefanski is expectation of full recovery for Greedy and Delpit with no long-term effects.  Greedy may be a CB3 moving forward and in a 4-2-5 he's still a starter.

Sure, Stefanski could be talking his book -- or he might just be truthful.. It's Monday, I'm optimistic about the week.

Are we really down with this   4-2-5  setup as the primary defense?    It just seems that you are begging teams to run over you....as seems to have happened to the Browns somewhat. 

[TexasAg1969]

@unsympathetic said:

May slightly change draft strategies -- Latest news from Stefanski is expectation of full recovery for Greedy and Delpit with no long-term effects.  Greedy may be a CB3 moving forward and in a 4-2-5 he's still a starter.

Sure, Stefanski could be talking his book -- or he might just be truthful.. It's Monday, I'm optimistic about the week.

That is great news that could really affect our 2021 draft choices. A weakness due to injury that could see instant cure. Now get those LBs and another Garrett twin.?

[Unsympathetic]

Presuming they actually value LB

[gumby73]

@unsympathetic said:

Reading this article in DBN suggests LB won't be our first or second round pick due to our actual alignments not looking at a "4-3".. Certainly could be with whoever's left in the 3rd, but not high. 

Ya may not like it?.. But, don't fail to read this link ^^^ ...It's a Joe Wood's style defense under draft construction..

@the-gipper said:

Are we really down with this   4-2-5  setup as the primary defense?   

From Link...  

Under DC Joe Woods, the Browns play a 4-3 defense. Or do they?

In looking at this season’s defensive personnel groupings, the 4-3 was utilized only 267 snaps. That correlates to just 24.8% of defensive plays.

What was used most often? The 4-2-5. A whooping 721 snaps for 66.9%. And get this – the remainder of snaps was in a 4-1-6 alignment.

With this in mind, the emphasis is squaring on the *pass rush and the *defensive backfield.

In the 4-2-5 alignment, the linebackers are used as the Mike (middle) and Sam (strongside) and eliminates the Will (weakside) entirely. The Mike’s duties are to plug the B-gap in running situations or as an occasional blitzer. Typically, the Mike is more of a Sam linebacker plugged into the center of the defense with some quickness and the ability to make adjustments. The other linebacker can be a converted strong safety with some girth and not an actual LB at all. This player will have coverage responsibilities such as the tight end or slot receiver.

With the 4-2-5, on the field personnel requires only one actual linebacker. With this in mind, why would you spend big money on him?

  See Gipper...it's ok to open links & read them ?

[tiamat63]

Guys, you know that the nickel is what most NFL defenses play 60%+ of the time.  

Calling it a 4-2-5 is long winded and you're picturing that, instead of realizing that's just the personnel listing, that it's somehow the actual alignment.... Which couldn't be further from that that stands for.

[Unsympathetic]

And that's why I now wouldn't be shocked if Browns go WR/Edge 1/2 in some combination .. need someone not named OBJ able to beat the man-press coverage of Ravens so that pass defense becomes something other than "double OBJ, press everyone else".

Day 3 WR fliers are Shi Smith / marlon williams / warren jackson [maybe imatorbhebhe but I wonder about his willingness to work]

The bullet position is the larger DB who can also play the run.. Ohio State now runs it, Michigan has for a while, etc

[tiamat63]

Bullet, Rover, Viper... Plenty of names.

Far back as I can remember - watching Sean Taylor roll up as a de-facto LB.  Cie Grant was a bulked up corner who played WILL backer.  Then Brandon Mitchell, both at tOSU.   Taylor Mays at SC when he was younger.  

The idea of taking a larger DB and using them more aggressively underneath and downhill against the run is a concept 2 decades old from my experience.

[TexasAg1969]

@tiamat63 said:

The idea of taking a larger DB and using them more aggressively underneath and downhill against the run is a concept 2 decades old from my experience.

I thought you were two decades old tia.??

[tiamat63]

@texasag1969 said:

I thought you were two decades old tia.??

Thrice now, bubs.   I'm expecting the reality of knee pain hell to set in at any moment.

[jrb12711]

@tiamat63 said:

Thrice now, bubs.   I'm expecting the reality of knee pain hell to set in at any moment.

I just turned 31 and got an MRI recently from a bowling throw gone wrong. Life comes fast, man.

I'm with you on what I hope the Browns draft strategy is 110%. No matter how you slice it in thinking of scheme, the Browns need EDGE rush help outside Myles and back 7 help. No way Vernon comes back with the injury he had, would be shocked if he plays at all again really. I actually really didn't think our DB depth played bad at all, considering how thrust some dudes were into starting roles. On top of that, we have non-significant capital invested in Greedy and Delpit. I really hope we're targeting a DE/OL prospect, that was the Achilles heel to me more than anything on the defensive side. Who that should be and who may available though I genuinely have NO clue about.