Wouldn't Gruden be an upgrade?
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1) If Mangini is the problem, Gruden is not the solution. Gruden is actually toxic to whatever team he coaches - the players do not like him, the clubhouse is not better because of him, and wins happen in spite of him. This is why he won only one SB with the stacked Bucs roster. Convincing yourself that Gruden is a "better" coach is cognitive dissonance akin to that exhibited by Holocaust deniers and 9/11 Truth-ers.
2) Show me proof Gruden is willing to take the Cleveland job. All I've seen is proof that he won't. It's very entertaining to speculate.. but you conveniently choose to avoid considering that Gruden will turn down any amount of money for the job.
1) If Mangini is the problem, Gruden is not the solution. Gruden is actually toxic to whatever team he coaches - the players do not like him, the clubhouse is not better because of him, and wins happen in spite of him. This is why he won only one SB with the stacked Bucs roster. Convincing yourself that Gruden is a "better" coach is cognitive dissonance akin to that exhibited by Holocaust deniers and 9/11 Truth-ers.
2) Show me proof Gruden is willing to take the Cleveland job. All I've seen is proof that he won't. It's very entertaining to speculate.. but you conveniently choose to avoid considering that Gruden will turn down any amount of money for the job.
Are you directing these questions to me or the OP?
1. LOL @ the last sentence. Hyperbole-much? He's not a 'cancer', otherwise many owners wouldn't want him to lead their franchise. 'Conveniently' choose? I never thought i had to go into this because it's neither here nor there, but Gruden didn't just inherit a superbowl team. I hope you're kidding. He was great for the Bucs, but had a hard picking the right QB. Moreover, he was great with the raiders.
2. I'm sure this is ALL speculation on everyone's part. Mangini is STILL the head coach and for now, i'm fine with that. Where is this 'proof' you have? And yes, it's entertaining to speculate, but at the end of the day, it's really all a matter of heresay rather than empirical evidence.
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1) If Mangini is the problem, Gruden is not the solution. Gruden is actually toxic to whatever team he coaches - the players do not like him, the clubhouse is not better because of him, and wins happen in spite of him. This is why he won only one SB with the stacked Bucs roster. Convincing yourself that Gruden is a "better" coach is cognitive dissonance akin to that exhibited by Holocaust deniers and 9/11 Truth-ers.
2) Show me proof Gruden is willing to take the Cleveland job. All I've seen is proof that he won't. It's very entertaining to speculate.. but you conveniently choose to avoid considering that Gruden will turn down any amount of money for the job.
1) If Mangini is the problem, Gruden is not the solution. Gruden is actually toxic to whatever team he coaches - the players do not like him, the clubhouse is not better because of him, and wins happen in spite of him. This is why he won only one SB with the stacked Bucs roster. Convincing yourself that Gruden is a "better" coach is cognitive dissonance akin to that exhibited by Holocaust deniers and 9/11 Truth-ers.
2) Show me proof Gruden is willing to take the Cleveland job. All I've seen is proof that he won't. It's very entertaining to speculate.. but you conveniently choose to avoid considering that Gruden will turn down any amount of money for the job.
What about what Gruden built with the Raiders? He did what Dungey couldn't do with that McKay built Bucs team. Dungey is SO overrated the Colts won the SB because of Manning not Dungey. Peyton's ferocious competitiveness overrode Dungeys take a dive mentality.
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I was listening till this idiot mentioned gruden as a better coach. He hopped on the dungy train and rode it to a sb.....then took control of that train and ran it into the ground....the qb carousel that rivals ours.
You could have said john fox and you wouldn't get laughed at.....I work in NY as well, and your media is a xxxxing joke...yes, that includes you.
Gruden.....lmao.
I was listening till this idiot mentioned gruden as a better coach. He hopped on the dungy train and rode it to a sb.....then took control of that train and ran it into the ground....the qb carousel that rivals ours.
You could have said john fox and you wouldn't get laughed at.....I work in NY as well, and your media is a xxxxing joke...yes, that includes you.
Gruden.....lmao.
"lmao", this doesn't even warrant a proper response.
Please post with maturity next time. Insulting anonymously is rather cowardice. I'm up for a debate, but calling people 'idiots' and 'a joke' without any real reasoning is waste of a post.
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Irony: you heavily predicating fact from opinion, than going on to say it's "apparent" I don't know my own media when that is an opinion in and out of itself. I'm a journalism student, these media pundits often lecture around my institution, so yes, I know the media pretty damn well.
Big difference between living in Manhattan (me) and having FAMILY (not you) living in New Jersey. Fact of the matter is, it isn't New York. And living among these media monsters you so claim, I clearly know more about the in and outs of my own city than someone who doesn't even live here, and for all I know, in this state. I'm not inept of my environment as you choose to believe. It's 50/50, not 100% 'Mangini hate'.
Plain and simple, if you continually fail your job (which is to win), you get need to get fired. It happened to great coaches, and it's going to continue to happen. Your love for Mangini isn't going to distill this notion.
And message boards are for discussion. Yes, they leave room for arguements and debates, but when the same points are continually brought up and trivial facts are risen, it does not warrant a response. Hence, 'message board' where one so aptly chooses to answer. It has nothing to do with one's ability to, lol 'handle it'. Beating a dead horse only leaves one dumber than they came in.
Well that explains a ton. its a lot like how these steeler fans are trying to defend the actions of there players. They are so wrapped up in it emotionally that they can't actually see whats going on. They are blind to the truth so to speak.
You live in new york. You dislike Eric Mangini despite having any real reason for it. The game of football is ultimately wins and losses yes, but there is so much more that goes into it. It would be like reading just the synopsis of a book and a good amount of the time you cannot do that.
I hope to have many more arguments with you about this team. Its good to have a foil.
good night.
Dawgfanforever88 said:
Well that explains a ton. its a lot like how these steeler fans are trying to defend the actions of there players. They are so wrapped up in it emotionally that they can't actually see whats going on. They are blind to the truth so to speak.You live in new york. You dislike Eric Mangini despite having any real reason for it. The game of football is ultimately wins and losses yes, but there is so much more that goes into it. It would be like reading just the synopsis of a book and a good amount of the time you cannot do that.
I hope to have many more arguments with you about this team. Its good to have a foil.
good night.
Are you calling me 'blind'? Like I said, I no personal bias against Mangini, I just don't believe he's the right coach.
Answer this, IF this team goes 4-12, then what do we do Mangini, 'O fearless leader? If we don't agree with you, are we blind? Will we be discrepantly alluded to Steeler fans?
C'mon man, you're smarter than that. This Steeler fan comparison was just a lame cop-out to try and get a rise. You seem like a 'last word' kind of guy.
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Fair enough, and good post. A few things:
1. I'm not sure about the OP, but my stance hasn't been 'drop Mangini for Gruden because he's a better coach', but rather drop Mangini because the team has not progressed the way we would have liked and it just so happens a much better coach is in the helms. The offense has been lacking in it's schemes as well as coverage packages on D. Mangini can't spot an audible and hasn't been fundamentally sound in the advanced kinetics of football. I applaud him for getting back to the basics, but at some point we just have to realize he's just not that good. I don't dislike him, but I am not satisfied with 'always next year' contention everyone is so apt with. He's not the right coach for this team. If it's another coach, thats fine, I personally want Cowher, but if we can get someone with the extensive knowledge of the game like Gruden, i'd be all for it as well.
2. I understand how the system works with the president and how they branch to the co-ordinators, but I also question they're ability to spot a not. The OC is horrible and there's no real challenge for the defenses, which the problem may lie.
The team hasn't progressed the way YOU would like. I suspect you measure progress solely by wins. I've seen lots of progress on the team and within the organization. There's a general feeling of stability and order that I like and hope to see continue. I don't think we need to throw anyone out just yet, especially not Mangini.
The team hasn't progressed the way YOU would like. I suspect you measure progress solely by wins. I've seen lots of progress on the team and within the organization. There's a general feeling of stability and order that I like and hope to see continue. I don't think we need to throw anyone out just yet, especially not Mangini.
I apologize, I completey missed this post. And i've seen progress too. One would be naive to say this team is the exact same.
And I never said we throw Mangini out this year. I'm simply asking, do we keep Mangini if this team goes 4-12? Or do we continue to ride this train of mediocre satisfaction?
I'm not a pessimist by any stretch of the word, nor am I a "Mangini hater" like many have quickly pointed out. However, I am saying if this team goes through another disappointing top 5-6 pick season, a coaching change should be taken into serious consideration.
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Somewhere in this thread someone sad that getting a new coach does'nt neccassarily mean a step back. I agree Gruden is a perfect example of that.
3-4 wins at best is all mangini is going to get this year. For those of you looking for that participation trophy at the end of the year that should be plenty
. Crazy, how some fans think wins is how you jusde a season. Those guys are nuts. 
Anyway since I spent all day yesterday at football games and the weather is beautiful here (Carolina blue sky) I could sit inside watch the Browns lose again and read online arguments all day and be miserable this evening me a and the boy are going to ride our dirtbikes. When in doubt gas it!
Good luck all. See you later.
Go Brown's!
Soccer, Futball, Fusball, Futsal, Foosball, Europe ... Mods are all gay. -
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Somewhere in this thread someone sad that getting a new coach does'nt neccassarily mean a step back. I agree Gruden is a perfect example of that.
3-4 wins at best is all mangini is going to get this year. For those of you looking for that participation trophy at the end of the year that should be plenty
. Crazy, how some fans think wins is how you jusde a season. Those guys are nuts. Anyway since I spent all day yesterday at football games and the weather is beautiful here (Carolina blue sky) I could sit inside watch the Browns lose again and read online arguments all day and be miserable this evening me a and the boy are going to ride our dirtbikes. When in doubt gas it!
Good luck all. See you later.
Go Brown's!
Somewhere in this thread someone sad that getting a new coach does'nt neccassarily mean a step back. I agree Gruden is a perfect example of that.
3-4 wins at best is all mangini is going to get this year. For those of you looking for that participation trophy at the end of the year that should be plenty
. Crazy, how some fans think wins is how you jusde a season. Those guys are nuts. Anyway since I spent all day yesterday at football games and the weather is beautiful here (Carolina blue sky) I could sit inside watch the Browns lose again and read online arguments all day and be miserable this evening me a and the boy are going to ride our dirtbikes. When in doubt gas it!
Good luck all. See you later.
Go Brown's!
I said that
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haha
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Quit worrying about Gruden coming to Cleveland, it ain't gonna happen. My dog just told me that Gruden will be in Dallas next year. He's a perfect fit for Jerry Jones.
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I think mangini will be given through next year at least. I think he can win a super bowl. The last time we had a super bowl coach we didn't recognize it, let's not let that happen again. Gruden took over a great situation in tampa bay and won but things went downhill after that.
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I was listening till this idiot mentioned gruden as a better coach. He hopped on the dungy train and rode it to a sb.....then took control of that train and ran it into the ground....the qb carousel that rivals ours.
You could have said john fox and you wouldn't get laughed at.....I work in NY as well, and your media is a xxxxing joke...yes, that includes you.
Gruden.....lmao.
"lmao", this doesn't even warrant a proper response.
Please post with maturity next time. Insulting anonymously is rather cowardice. I'm up for a debate, but calling people 'idiots' and 'a joke' without any real reasoning is waste of a post.
"lmao", this doesn't even warrant a proper response.
Please post with maturity next time. Insulting anonymously is rather cowardice. I'm up for a debate, but calling people 'idiots' and 'a joke' without any real reasoning is waste of a post.
Then why'd you respond?
You think u know so much...but I haven't read anything from u that proves your point...your opinion.
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"lmao", this doesn't even warrant a proper response.
Please post with maturity next time. Insulting anonymously is rather cowardice. I'm up for a debate, but calling people 'idiots' and 'a joke' without any real reasoning is waste of a post.
Then why'd you respond?
You think u know so much...but I haven't read anything from u that proves your point...your opinion.
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Somewhere in this thread someone sad that getting a new coach does'nt neccassarily mean a step back. I agree Gruden is a perfect example of that.
3-4 wins at best is all mangini is going to get this year. For those of you looking for that participation trophy at the end of the year that should be plenty
. Crazy, how some fans think wins is how you jusde a season. Those guys are nuts. Anyway since I spent all day yesterday at football games and the weather is beautiful here (Carolina blue sky) I could sit inside watch the Browns lose again and read online arguments all day and be miserable this evening me a and the boy are going to ride our dirtbikes. When in doubt gas it!
Good luck all. See you later.
Go Brown's!
Somewhere in this thread someone sad that getting a new coach does'nt neccassarily mean a step back. I agree Gruden is a perfect example of that.
3-4 wins at best is all mangini is going to get this year. For those of you looking for that participation trophy at the end of the year that should be plenty
. Crazy, how some fans think wins is how you jusde a season. Those guys are nuts. Anyway since I spent all day yesterday at football games and the weather is beautiful here (Carolina blue sky) I could sit inside watch the Browns lose again and read online arguments all day and be miserable this evening me a and the boy are going to ride our dirtbikes. When in doubt gas it!
Good luck all. See you later.
Go Brown's!
So glad I was wrong about the outcome. Even though I followed the game on my phone and knew the Browns won I still watched when I got home. Great Day!!
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Mangini took over a roster that was so f**kin full of malcontents, overpaid prima donna's, lazy contract fat and outright lazy players and in a year cleaned up the mess without killing the salaey cap. He made Heckert and Holmgren's job SO much easier after taking out the trash its not an argueble point. He has beaten the defending super bowl champion 2 years in a row with practice player pick ups and limited talent..Lets see what else...,OH.. he BADLY outcoached the "NFL Coach of the Year' yesterday with his # 1 and 2 QB's gone,his best d lineman..Smith..gone, his 6th different right tackle this season, his back up punter,No jackson at MLB..anything else..Oh yeah..Mangini beat Peyton easily..Lets get off the "Chuckie's penis bandwagon" cause we have the right guy coaching right now..NOUGH SAID.
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read above
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I just want to add one other thing.
In my opinion; to judge this season, our coaches and our players by the W - L column only, is the wrong thing to do. This team is playing better than I've seen it play in a long while, as evidenced by yesterdays ass-whooping of the Saints.
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I just don't see the Gruden hype.
He made Oakland better when he was there, but they were never a Superbowl Contender. He rode another coaches team to the Superbowl and then got worse every single season that he was coach. He is a supposed "coaching genius" yet he hasn't coached anything other than high school for two seasons now.
Gruden is not the answer, he's just hype.
Mangini and staff have done an EXCELLENT job the last two seasons, especially if you can recall how bad the Browns were the last ten years...
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