Why We Need A Qb
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If fucking Dilfer can win a Super Bowl, there is no way in hell McCoy can not be serviceable with some weapons.
the NFL Dilfer played in and the NFL of today are completely different, so that's a mute point.
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Someone said it would be a waste to draft a QB at 4, that's crazy. QB is the most important position and Holmgren already said that he'd change that up every year til they have their guy. If Colt was the guy or good enough to be the guy he'd be named the starter already. He's not good enough and he won't be the starter (barring injury to our real starter) but even then Wallace would have a great shot at taking over for McCoy.
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No, I'm presenting stats and facts to show that a majority of the QB's deemed "great" or "franchise" QB', and are routinely playing in the postseason are first round picks.
What you are doing is being a blowhard front running cockgoblin masquerading as a quasi-Browns fan when in reality you are only here because you were kicked off most Saints forums due to your lack of intelligence and homoerotic fantasies.
It's your turn. Pick up the dice, dungeon master. This time, try to at least use a little bit of statistical information to back up your shitty opinions about a mediocre QB on an awful team.
Oooooooo that was intelligent.
You mad bro?
Sucks when a saints fan knows more about ur team than you do doesn't it?
Oooooooo that was intelligent.
You mad bro?
Sucks when a saints fan knows more about ur team than you do doesn't it?
just so you know, literally no one thinks you're knowledgeable about football. Anyone who actually uses the phrase "you mad bro" pretty much describes themselves as a tool who hides behind the internet.
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Oooooooo that was intelligent.
You mad bro?
Sucks when a saints fan knows more about ur team than you do doesn't it?
just so you know, literally no one thinks you're knowledgeable about football. Anyone who actually uses the phrase "you mad bro" pretty much describes themselves as a tool who hides behind the internet.
just so you know, literally no one thinks you're knowledgeable about football. Anyone who actually uses the phrase "you mad bro" pretty much describes themselves as a tool who hides behind the internet.
Lol I take what browns fans say with a grain of salt anyway so hats off to you as well
I don't have to know a single thing about football to know more than most ppl here
Some ppl here are actually very intelligent but can't get over the constant name calling and immaturity to earn my respect so they'll never hear any compliments from me
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I haven't read anything by either of you people but I will say that everyone thinks they know more about football than everyone else. I have a friend who swears up and down that he's a football savant yet he literally didn't know the difference between man on man coverage compared to zone defense. You have to take what everyone says with a grain of salt because most people don't know what they're talking about. For the most part, sports is opinion based. Some people go by stats, some justify their opinions from intangibles instead. One person thinks the QB makes the WR's better while the other will think the WR's make the QB look better and so on and so on.
I don't understand why people get so bent out of shape when people disagree with an opinion. Even if they are legitimately stupid. I've posted tonight for the first time and I already had somebody tell me that Colt McCoy is better than Robert Griffen. That statement if flawed for many reasons, one being that RG3 hasn't played an NFL game yet. Another is that GM's have him ranked as not only the 2nd best QB but also a top 10 PLAYER in the draft. While McCoy was considered a 3rd round project guy by some and not worth the gamble by others. But I didn't get mad at the person, they have a right to say whatever they want even if it is a bit ridiculous.
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A good QB makes those around him plamakers.
Hines Ward- 3rd round pick.
Emmanuel Sanders-3rd round pick.
Mike Wallace- 3rd round pick.
Antonio Brown- 6th round pick.
Ben Roethlisberger- 1st round pick
James Jones- 3rd round pick.
Donald Driver-7th round pick
Jordy Nelson- 2nd round pick
Randall Cobb- 2nd round pick
Aaron Rodgers- 1st round pick
Pierre Garcon- 6th round pick
Reggie Wayne- 1st round pick
Austin Collie- 4th round pick
Anthony Gonzalez- 1st round pick. (hurts my argument a tad, but I'm presenting all the facts)
Peyton Manning- 1st round pick
And then there's the Patriots, with no 1st round picks at QB or WR. What they do have, however, is two first round and two second round Offensive Linemen. (Thats for you, Ghoolie)
I like the thought that went into this however a first round QB does not a winning team make... for every qb taken in the first round that succeeds there are three that fail.... How good were the rams this year? And how much of the 49ers success can be put in alex smith's hands? David carr / ryan leaf / matt leinart / jason campbell / kyle boller / jamarcus russell...the list goes on and on just because someone takes a qb in the first round doesn;t guarantee their greatness one more year use this year to find the playmakers not the QB...
I like the thought that went into this however a first round QB does not a winning team make... for every qb taken in the first round that succeeds there are three that fail.... How good were the rams this year? And how much of the 49ers success can be put in alex smith's hands? David carr / ryan leaf / matt leinart / jason campbell / kyle boller / jamarcus russell...the list goes on and on just because someone takes a qb in the first round doesn;t guarantee their greatness one more year use this year to find the playmakers not the QB...
For every 1st round bust you (and everyone else) listed there are 500 more QB's taken in round 2-7 that never see any meaningful action or even a starting roster.
I don't advocate taking a first round QB this year, because frankly, outside of Luck, this draft is rather weak in QB's.
I'd rather us pull the trigger on Flynn, because he's had years behind an NFL coaching staff and arguably the best QB coach/OC tandem in the last 20 years. His gawdy numbers do nothing to sway me, I feel we would draft a QB this season anyway. In effect, signing Flynn would be drafting a QB without experiencing the learning curve.
Drafting is a crapshoot in any round. But the highest success rate and closest to a sure thing you can get is by drafting a QB in the first.
We could load the roster with Pro Bowl caliber players and first round picks at every position to "surround Colt with talent", but this regime doesn't have the time to do that. They have to produce now. Include the fact that it would take 9 more first round picks to fill out the offense, based on your plan of action, and you can understand why that line of reasoning wont fly with them.
Fact of the matter is, they're looking for someone who can win in spite of the lack of talent around them, not lose because of it.
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No, I'm presenting stats and facts to show that a majority of the QB's deemed "great" or "franchise" QB', and are routinely playing in the postseason are first round picks.
What you are doing is being a blowhard front running cockgoblin masquerading as a quasi-Browns fan when in reality you are only here because you were kicked off most Saints forums due to your lack of intelligence and homoerotic fantasies.
It's your turn. Pick up the dice, dungeon master. This time, try to at least use a little bit of statistical information to back up your shitty opinions about a mediocre QB on an awful team.
Oooooooo that was intelligent.
You mad bro?
Sucks when a saints fan knows more about ur team than you do doesn't it?
Oooooooo that was intelligent.
You mad bro?
Sucks when a saints fan knows more about ur team than you do doesn't it?
So instead of refuting my claim and continuing to dig yourself a hole, you just spurt and stutter a half-assed comeback to try and rile me up?
And you wonder why nobody takes you seriously.
Furthermore, you've yet to say anything that would convince even the most half-hearted of fans (people like yourself, actually) that you know the tiniest bit about the sport.
But continue to play Madden and think you know the inner-workings of the NFL. Leave the real talk to the grow ups, pussy cat.
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just so you know, literally no one thinks you're knowledgeable about football. Anyone who actually uses the phrase "you mad bro" pretty much describes themselves as a tool who hides behind the internet.
Lol I take what browns fans say with a grain of salt anyway so hats off to you as well
I don't have to know a single thing about football to know more than most ppl here
Some ppl here are actually very intelligent but can't get over the constant name calling and immaturity to earn my respect so they'll never hear any compliments from me
Lol I take what browns fans say with a grain of salt anyway so hats off to you as well
I don't have to know a single thing about football to know more than most ppl here
Some ppl here are actually very intelligent but can't get over the constant name calling and immaturity to earn my respect so they'll never hear any compliments from me
Wow.......you think people really care about your respect? You know absolutely nothing about football. You prove it everyday.
First off, you have 2 firsts. If we use one pick to draft a "guaranteed bust QB", as you keep implying, this would be the draft it sets us back the least. If we draft a "guaranteed bust QB" in '13 we're really set back. So whether you want to draft a QB or not, this year is the best year if the QB is worth the pick.
Second, the rookie pay scale is slotted, which means anyone we draft will cost us the same if they bust. Saying QB is going to cost so much more money is Retarded.
Lastly, no matter whether we draft a QB early or get one in FA, if he has an ounce of talent he will take Colts job instantly. QB is the one position that has completely been ignored. Tim Couch was the only real attempt at a QB. Quinn was a unnecessary reach by an incompetent prick. The rest were rebuilding QBs like McCoy. The FO is going into their 3rd draft/offseason. They clearly won't declare McCoy is their guy. Holmgren is supposedly a QB guru. If he saw the talent, the potential, the chance to win, etc. then he would declare McCoy the guy. Just admit your wrong and move on.
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Your third party evaluation is appreciated, but unnecessary.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/05/holmgren-mccoy-will-face-quarterback-competition/
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Your third party evaluation is appreciated, but unnecessary.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/05/holmgren-mccoy-will-face-quarterback-competition/
Your third party evaluation is appreciated, but unnecessary.
lol youre a dick dude i was just posting up some relevant stuff to read. heres some more. . .its the press conference with heckert and holmgren again.
http://www.cleveland...2b-e80d1cc1ef99
If you really watch it you see that Holmgren says repeatedly that he believes in what he has with Colt and acknowledges that from the outsiders perspective its easy to base a QB's worth on how the team fared, record-wise. As well, he mentions that he believes that Colt can/could be the guy to build the franchise around but he's not ready to anoint him just yet. He also mentions that the QB needs to have some protection and someone to throw the ball to. Holmgren acknowledges that he likes to bring in a QB every year to promote competition and find the best depth available, but that he believes in the players he has and expects whoever is starting to play well. Then, when Heckert is pointedly asked if theyll likely go after a QB in the draft to pay "big money" to start for the Browns he says its not likely its the way theyll go, but that its still early.
By all reasonable accounts, the Browns FO believes in Colt and acknowledges the fact that they seek to draft with other positions in mind, primarily, but will not pass up the opportunity to bring in talent at the QB position to compete. This is all in the first 5-10 minutes of the video. The QB discussion is the first they have.
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As well (and this is the last one, I swear) when asked (Holmgren) if he has seen/coached QBs at the talent/success level of someone like Colt go on to be extremely successful, he responds, "Sure. It usually happens that way. Very few guys that I have seen or coached have come in their first few years and shot lights out. Very few. And if you are a young QB on a team who is rebuilding, particularly on offense, its doubly hard."
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Honestly its pretty cool watching Holmgren talk about football because he really teaches when he speaks. I would love to see him coach an NFL team today. This press-conference leaves me excited for the future of Browns football if they are willing to stay the course with this guy. In a lot of ways, he reminds me of Parcells with the Cowboys.
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Honestly its pretty cool watching Holmgren talk about football because he really teaches when he speaks. I would love to see him coach an NFL team today. This press-conference leaves me excited for the future of Browns football if they are willing to stay the course with this guy. In a lot of ways, he reminds me of Parcells with the Cowboys.
Honestly its pretty cool watching Holmgren talk about football because he really teaches when he speaks. I would love to see him coach an NFL team today. This press-conference leaves me excited for the future of Browns football if they are willing to stay the course with this guy. In a lot of ways, he reminds me of Parcells with the Cowboys.
Hook Line and Sinker, i think i got a bite
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I haven't read anything by either of you people but I will say that everyone thinks they know more about football than everyone else. I have a friend who swears up and down that he's a football savant yet he literally didn't know the difference between man on man coverage compared to zone defense. You have to take what everyone says with a grain of salt because most people don't know what they're talking about. For the most part, sports is opinion based. Some people go by stats, some justify their opinions from intangibles instead. One person thinks the QB makes the WR's better while the other will think the WR's make the QB look better and so on and so on.
I don't understand why people get so bent out of shape when people disagree with an opinion. Even if they are legitimately stupid. I've posted tonight for the first time and I already had somebody tell me that Colt McCoy is better than Robert Griffen. That statement if flawed for many reasons, one being that RG3 hasn't played an NFL game yet. Another is that GM's have him ranked as not only the 2nd best QB but also a top 10 PLAYER in the draft. While McCoy was considered a 3rd round project guy by some and not worth the gamble by others. But I didn't get mad at the person, they have a right to say whatever they want even if it is a bit ridiculous.
jparsh said:
I don't understand why people get so bent out of shape when people disagree with an opinion. Even if they are legitimately stupid. I've posted tonight for the first time and I already had somebody tell me that Colt McCoy is better than Robert Griffen. That statement if flawed for many reasons, one being that RG3 hasn't played an NFL game yet. Another is that GM's have him ranked as not only the 2nd best QB but also a top 10 PLAYER in the draft. While McCoy was considered a 3rd round project guy by some and not worth the gamble by others. But I didn't get mad at the person, they have a right to say whatever they want even if it is a bit ridiculous.
Dont worry about it some people just cant comprend things its something you have to get used to i guess,but yes you are correct
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just so you know, literally no one thinks you're knowledgeable about football. Anyone who actually uses the phrase "you mad bro" pretty much describes themselves as a tool who hides behind the internet.
Lol I take what browns fans say with a grain of salt anyway so hats off to you as well
I don't have to know a single thing about football to know more than most ppl here
Some ppl here are actually very intelligent but can't get over the constant name calling and immaturity to earn my respect so they'll never hear any compliments from me
Lol I take what browns fans say with a grain of salt anyway so hats off to you as well
I don't have to know a single thing about football to know more than most ppl here
Some ppl here are actually very intelligent but can't get over the constant name calling and immaturity to earn my respect so they'll never hear any compliments from me
you're one of those guys despite everyone telling you you're wrong and that they don't respect you at all refuse to accept the truth. I actually respect plenty of people on this board. Ask Timmy, him and I had a huge heated debate about Stallworth (if he remembers). I couldn't have disagreed with him more but he actually presented facts and valid reasoning behind his opinion. He didn't consistently come in and say the same thing 100 times and despite given solid, concrete evidence the other way just repeated the same line. The fact you feel you know football is humorous, whatever makes you feel like you mean something.
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Lol I take what browns fans say with a grain of salt anyway so hats off to you as well
I don't have to know a single thing about football to know more than most ppl here
Some ppl here are actually very intelligent but can't get over the constant name calling and immaturity to earn my respect so they'll never hear any compliments from me
you're one of those guys despite everyone telling you you're wrong and that they don't respect you at all refuse to accept the truth. I actually respect plenty of people on this board. Ask Timmy, him and I had a huge heated debate about Stallworth (if he remembers). I couldn't have disagreed with him more but he actually presented facts and valid reasoning behind his opinion. He didn't consistently come in and say the same thing 100 times and despite given solid, concrete evidence the other way just repeated the same line. The fact you feel you know football is humorous, whatever makes you feel like you mean something.
you're one of those guys despite everyone telling you you're wrong and that they don't respect you at all refuse to accept the truth. I actually respect plenty of people on this board. Ask Timmy, him and I had a huge heated debate about Stallworth (if he remembers). I couldn't have disagreed with him more but he actually presented facts and valid reasoning behind his opinion. He didn't consistently come in and say the same thing 100 times and despite given solid, concrete evidence the other way just repeated the same line. The fact you feel you know football is humorous, whatever makes you feel like you mean something.
I actually have given several reasons...none of which you've read
But don't let facts get in the way of ur point. I certainly won't hold it against you
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2010 Offensive line rankings in pass protection
Colts-#1
Packers=#5
Saints=#3
Pats=#11
Do you see the correlation on the other side of the coin?
The only real exception here is the Pittsburgh Steelers, who do not have an outstanding O-line but DO boast a dominant defense and a consistent running game, year in and year out. On top of that, if anyone is going to take a pounding and get back up, its Ben Rothlisberger. But tbh the kind of preotection Rothlisberger has gotten historically has probably already taken years off of his career. Look at teams like Denver and NY whose QBs arent as good as Colt, and you see that they have fantastic defenses and running games. Speaking of running games, look at Atlanta. I could go on. Something always has to give. Right now, the QB is not the area that needs to take precedence.
Now I am starting to think we should take at least one QB in every round... maybe one will end up being THE one...
2010 Offensive line rankings in pass protection
Colts-#1 Packers=#5 Saints=#3 Pats=#11
Do you see the correlation on the other side of the coin?
Sure a line is important, but all those teams have QB's that:
- are pretty fair at reading D's, making line calls and/ or calling audibles;
- have quick releases; and
- are nimble in the pocket.
The QB goes far in determining his line's chances of success in any given play... run or pass...
The same Colts with the same O Line and without Peyton Manning and an unproven QB = worst team this year.
You mean Painter hasn't absorbed all the positive experience of bench warming behind a great QB on a great offense like Flynn has in GB???
Stick with the proven commodity in colt who is still growing and learning
While I do agree with the "commodity" part. "Proven"? Not so much... It doesn't really go with "growing and learning" does it?
People need to stfu about rg3
It's called a F-O-R-U-M... People post O-P-I-N-I-O-N-S... People D-I-S-A-G-R-E-E...
We need to get all the pieces in place then look for a QB.
Seems to me that by the time we got to the last piece, the first would have announced their retirement and we'd have to start all over again.
But that's me... and I've never been to GM school either...
The browns will not waste a no 4 pick on a QB.
Hopefully we won't "waste" any pick on any position, but if (and, yes, it's a very big if) the #4 could get us Luck or P. Manning, I'm pretty sure I'd "risk" it... Wouldn't you?
If you really watch it you see that Holmgren says repeatedly that he believes in what he has with Colt... As well, he mentions that he believes that Colt can/could be the guy to build the franchise around... Holmgren acknowledges that he likes to bring in a QB every year to promote competition and find the best depth available, but that he believes in the players he has and expects whoever is starting to play well. Then, when Heckert is pointedly asked if theyll likely go after a QB in the draft to pay "big money" to start for the Browns he says its not likely its the way theyll go, but that its still early.
First, Holmgren drafted Colt.... spent a third round pick on him (a fairly valuable pick), so what else would he say? "We're just marking time with Colt, if I had it to do over again..." is not really an option is it?
Second, everything, including the Colt comments, is generic GM-speak 101... It's like Paul was sitting next to 'Crash' Davis in the back of the bus on the ride home from Pittsburgh...
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Carlos, I was just messing with you.
I hope beyond all hope Colt can be the guy, but from what has been shown so far, it's apparent he can't be. The lack of talent around him notwithstanding, he makes bad reads and doesn't pull the trigger downfield as often as he should. Our offense is a dink and dunk offense and the rare times we do try to stretch the field, Colt misses or settles for a check down even if he's working against single coverage deep.
I just don't want to have another potential Pro Bowler slip past us again, as it seemed to be the trend in the past 10 years.
"It seemed to be" sounds like "Hasheem Thabeet"
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