What's wrong with Derek Carr?
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I'm not going to try and defend or argue about this any longer. I've already presented all the FACTs with STATS and videos not made up opinions. The Browns likely won't be able to draft Carr anyways unless they move up. Let's just agree to disagree. I just find if laughable that TCPO and bringbackbrownie don't think he is a first rounder.
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Your facts and stats are, once again, skewed.
Carr attempts more downfield passes because he passes much more than Bortles and Bridgewater. That is a fact.
Per cfbstats, Carr has 40 completions of 25+ yards on the season on 552 pass attempts. That is 7.2% of Carr's throws go for at least 25 yards. That is a fact.
Bortles has 25 completions of 25+ yards on 400 pass attempts. That equates to 6.25%. That is a fact.
Bridgewater has 34 completions of 25+ of 419 pass attempts. That equates to 8.1%. That is a fact.
So, you're right in that he completes more passes, but his percentage is roughly just the same as everyone else. Keep in mind, that this stat also includes short passes that have gone for long gains, not just long passes. That is a fact.
When Carr is asked to throw long passes, he's hardly spectacular. Through a three game sample, Carr's completion percentage drops to near 50% on plays of 10 yards or longer. That's a 10-20% difference of many of the quarterbacks in this draft, with Mettenberger leading at 70%. Those are facts.
From what I can recall, Carr has taken exactly zero snaps from under center this season. This could be wrong, as I haven't watched film on Carr in about two weeks. Either way, Carr is taking more than or just about 95% of his snaps from shotgun, and throwing passes 10 yards or less 77% of the time. Of course his sack totals will be lower. A defender would have to get through the offensive line and run 5-7 yards behind the line in the matter of 2 seconds. Those are facts.
Each one of Carr's "amazing" numbers has a story behind it.
Carr is a first round prospect based off his athleticism and his production, albeit as part of a system. Personally, I don't agree with it, but I can see why a team would want him early.
As I've said before, the best measure of Carr as a prospect is his sophomore season, before Schramm brought his system to Fresno.
Once again, the only thing you've had to really say is that Carr completes more passes downfield, when that's actually just another inflated stat. That is a fact.
Carr has the physicality, that's about it. He's a system quarterback going against garbage talent. That is a fact.
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Your facts and stats are, once again, skewed.
Carr attempts more downfield passes because he passes much more than Bortles and Bridgewater. That is a fact.
Per cfbstats, Carr has 40 completions of 25+ yards on the season on 552 pass attempts. That is 7.2% of Carr's throws go for at least 25 yards. That is a fact.
Bortles has 25 completions of 25+ yards on 400 pass attempts. That equates to 6.25%. That is a fact.
Bridgewater has 34 completions of 25+ of 419 pass attempts. That equates to 8.1%. That is a fact.
So, you're right in that he completes more passes, but his percentage is roughly just the same as everyone else. Keep in mind, that this stat also includes short passes that have gone for long gains, not just long passes. That is a fact.
When Carr is asked to throw long passes, he's hardly spectacular. Through a three game sample, Carr's completion percentage drops to near 50% on plays of 10 yards or longer. That's a 10-20% difference of many of the quarterbacks in this draft, with Mettenberger leading at 70%. Those are facts.
From what I can recall, Carr has taken exactly zero snaps from under center this season. This could be wrong, as I haven't watched film on Carr in about two weeks. Either way, Carr is taking more than or just about 95% of his snaps from shotgun, and throwing passes 10 yards or less 77% of the time. Of course his sack totals will be lower. A defender would have to get through the offensive line and run 5-7 yards behind the line in the matter of 2 seconds. Those are facts.
Each one of Carr's "amazing" numbers has a story behind it.
Carr is a first round prospect based off his athleticism and his production, albeit as part of a system. Personally, I don't agree with it, but I can see why a team would want him early.
As I've said before, the best measure of Carr as a prospect is his sophomore season, before Schramm brought his system to Fresno.
Once again, the only thing you've had to really say is that Carr completes more passes downfield, when that's actually just another inflated stat. That is a fact.
Carr has the physicality, that's about it. He's a system quarterback going against garbage talent. That is a fact.
Your facts and stats are, once again, skewed.
Carr attempts more downfield passes because he passes much more than Bortles and Bridgewater. That is a fact.
In a previous thread you wrote, "Carr sporadically throws downfield. All his passes are short throws." Once you were proven to be a fraud who tried to pass your biased opinions as the truth you're now trying to spin the stats in your favor. I guarantee you the majority of Carr's long pass completions are gained through the air and not YAC. That can't be said for TB and Bortles.
Per cfbstats, Carr has 40 completions of 25+ yards on the season on 552 pass attempts. That is 7.2% of Carr's throws go for at least 25 yards. That is a fact.
The only reason why his percentage is lower is because the offense calls him to throw short passes.
Bortles has 25 completions of 25+ yards on 400 pass attempts. That equates to 6.25%. That is a fact.
Bridgewater has 34 completions of 25+ of 419 pass attempts. That equates to 8.1%. That is a fact.
So, you're right in that he completes more passes, but his percentage is roughly just the same as everyone else. Keep in mind, that this stat also includes short passes that have gone for long gains, not just long passes. That is a fact.
I already posted their 20+ yard completions.
In 11 games, Carr has 71 20+ yard completions
In 12 games, Bridgewater has 45 20+ yard completions
In 11 games, Blake Bortles has 46 20+ yard completions
Once again, you had to change it to 25+ yards to try to skew it more towards your argument. The only reason why Peyton Manning has more yards and TD's than Colin Kaepernick is because the throws more.
When Carr is asked to throw long passes, he's hardly spectacular. Through a three game sample, Carr's completion percentage drops to near 50% on plays of 10 yards or longer. That's a 10-20% difference of many of the quarterbacks in this draft, with Mettenberger leading at 70%. Those are facts.
Seriously a random 3 game sample?
In his last 2 games Carr completed 24 passes that traveled more than 10 yards through the air beyond the Line of Scrimmage.
How many has TB and Bortles completed? I'm sure you can combine both their totals and it would still be under Carr's 24.
From what I can recall, Carr has taken exactly zero snaps from under center this season. This could be wrong, as I haven't watched film on Carr in about two weeks. Either way, Carr is taking more than or just about 95% of his snaps from shotgun, and throwing passes 10 yards or less 77% of the time. Of course his sack totals will be lower. A defender would have to get through the offensive line and run 5-7 yards behind the line in the matter of 2 seconds. Those are facts.
Playing under center or a Pro Style offense is the most overrated BS there is as to whether or not a college QB will successfully transfer to the NFL. Matt Barkley (Pro Style) Nick Foles (Spread) Drew Brees (Spread)
Yeah you can only succeed in the NFL if you played in a pro style offense in College. By the way, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady takes most of their snaps from the shotgun.
Each one of Carr's "amazing" numbers has a story behind it.
I would say so. The kid can flat out play.
Carr is a first round prospect based off his athleticism and his production, albeit as part of a system. Personally, I don't agree with it, but I can see why a team would want him early.
Carr's athleticism and arm talent is superior to TB and Bortles and that is a FACT. Yeah I'm sure every QB who played in a spread system has sucked at the NFL level. Brees sure sucks.
As I've said before, the best measure of Carr as a prospect is his sophomore season, before Schramm brought his system to Fresno.
Yeah ok so I guess he was a finished product his sophomore year which was his first year starting or getting any playing time.
Once again, the only thing you've had to really say is that Carr completes more passes downfield, when that's actually just another inflated stat. That is a fact.
Carr completes more downfield throws with more velocity and more accuracy than anyone else in College Football. Fact.
Carr has the physicality, that's about it. He's a system quarterback going against garbage talent. That is a fact.
At least Carr is destroying defenses in his mediocre conference and not putting up mediocre numbers like TB and Bortles in a mediocre conference. Yeah I guess the AAC is a Powerhouse Conference.
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Draft Carr. Start Hoyer. Hoyer stays healthy and plays the entire 2014 season. Carr starts when "ready", or when Hoyer gets injured in 2015 season.
i can live with that. but there is a lot of factors that go into that reasoning.
first is carr the guy you really wanted now that the whole QB class has been turned upside down? was he your guy to begin with? do you say no to hoyer as a starter and have him serve as a backup considering the health of his knee? or is hoyer the starter, some bum as a backup and carr sit and learn?
or do you decide to go with position of ned (besides QB) with your first pick and choose either the best OL (RG/RT) or defensive monster, then choose a QB with our second first rounder? or just hold off all together with the QB pick until the later rounds and fix other positions of need?
who knows what this FO will do.
first is carr the guy you really wanted now that the whole QB class has been turned upside down?
was he your guy to begin with?
THAT, my friend, is the key question. Unless the answer is yes, then folks are settling for an artificially elevated Carr out of desperation.
What exactly do you mean by gunslinger? I've heard that phrase used by so many people in so many ways it's lost all meaning to me. I usually think of the Brett Favre type of guy. Someone who is going to make stupid mistakes but moreso use his talents to make tough throws (If they're good).
Pretty much what I meant. Farve is my pictorial definition of gunslinger.
For all his notoriety Farve delivered 1 SB in his 16 years at GB. And in all those years GB had some stacked teams. As I posted in another thread... with gunslinger you will suffer years and years of pain in the hope that he will deliver one, magical season and deliver the goods.
That may sound good now, but it won't for long if it becomes our reality.
With a rookie cap there's a lot less pressure to start a rookie in the opener. If Hoyer is healthy and plays as well as he did for us this season, the only way you sit him is if the rookie simply takes the job in camp and preseason by playing better. Basically, what Russell Wilson did to whatsisname in Seattle.
I believe Flynn is the name you are looking for...
I disagree on the role of $$$ in generating pressure. High first round picks (top ten) are expected to start Game 1. Pressure declines as the round progresses and is gone by round two.
To me it's the pick investment... not the financial one. Were it financial, then Flynn would have been the Seattle starter... and quite possibly Cousins would have been the WSH QB for much of this year.
Why trade up for an unknown when an equally unknown quarterback will be there when we pick at 7?
Yup... or at 27... or at 39... or at...
In 11 games, Carr has 71 20+ yard completions
In 12 games, Bridgewater has 45 20+ yard completions
In 11 games, Blake Bortles has 46 20+ yard completions
Interesting (but understandable) how you completely abandoned your stats once they were discredited. YAC is a reality...
Carr side steps and launches ball 65 yards in the air with a flick of the wrist hitting WR in stride.
Flick of the wrist??? And you are accusing others of bias?
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Yes, I just found this thread! I can't believe I missed this whole discussion. Damn, must have been when I my job was working my dick off. Very good points in here in favor of Derek Carr.
I think he is THE GUY. Easily the best QB coming out this year. Here is an interesting article leading up to the Senior Bowl.
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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000313921/article/derek-carr-seeking-to-regain-momentum-at-senior-bowl
Derek Carr seeking to regain momentum at Senior Bowl
By Dan Greenspan
College Football 24/7 writer
Published: Jan. 15, 2014 at 05:59 p.m.
Updated: Jan. 15, 2014 at 06:11 p.m.
AP Photo/Gregory Bull
Fresno State QB Derek Carr is looking forward to the opportunity to show off his potential at the 2014 Senior Bowl.
Whatever momentum Fresno State quarterback Derek Carr had going into the 2014 NFL Draft was undone by the USC defense in the Las Vegas Bowl. Now Carr is hoping to get it back at the Reese's Senior Bowl next week.
"My No. 1 goal is to go there and show people who I am, show them that No. 1 is my faith, No. 2 is my family and my friends, and No. 3 is football and I take my job very serious. Hopefully I'll find a team that feels the same way and falls in love with me," Carr told the College Football 24/7 podcast.
Despite throwing for an FBS-best 5,083 yards and 50 touchdowns as a senior, it was the struggles against the Trojans' talented front seven -- one Carr labeled "the best we played against" this season -- that raised concerns about his pocket presence.
Carr was 30-of-54 passing for 217 yards, two touchdowns and one interception in the 45-20 loss, a last impression that knocked him well behind Teddy Twatwater, Johnny Manziel and Blake Bortles among quarterbacks available in the draft.
2014 NFL Draft
NFL Media analyst Daniel Jeremiah has a second-round grade on Carr. Bucky Brooks said scouts are "fascinated by his natural arm talent, his gunslinger mentality and his production," but sees the Senior Bowl as the proving ground that will play a significant role in determining Carr's stock.
"If he goes down to Mobile, if he lights it up and performs well in practices and in the game, I think he certainly can jump back in the conversation as one of those top guys," Brooks said.
Said Jeremiah: "That's why you go to the Senior Bowl if you're a guy like Derek Carr. You go there and you got a chance to really help yourself."
That is especially true with AJ McCarron, one of the other signal-callers currently in the second tier with Carr, bypassing the Senior Bowl after a similarly dismal bowl performance.
But Carr is aiming higher, expressing no doubts he can match Bridgewater, Manziel and Bortles in the classroom and on the field. As for the concerns and questions about his game that make the Senior Bowl so critical, Carr is glad to hear them.
"I hope they nitpick a lot because I want to be the best to ever do it, with respect to everyone who has ever played the position," Carr said. -
I would not mind getting carr with our second pick and Watkins with our first.
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The fact that POG is on the Carr bandwagon only validates my opinion.
He's a bust and POG is an idiot.
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The fact that POG is on the Carr bandwagon only validates my opinion.
He's a bust and POG is an idiot.
The fact that POG is on the Carr bandwagon only validates my opinion.
He's a bust and POG is an idiot.
Yep, that puts the nail in Trent's, I mean Carr's coffin.
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The Browns should hire POG so they know who not to draft..
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Scenario A
Raiders trade up to #1 and pick Manziel
Vikings trade up to #2 and pick Bortles
Jaguars pick Bridgewater
Browns...?
...pick Sammy Watkins at #4, and trade up into the #14-20 range using their pick at #26 and a 3rd or 4th and draft Carr.
Is that so bad?
Or, Scenario B:
First 4 picks in the round go the same way as in Scenario A (Watkins)
Browns go CB with pick #26
Browns go OG with pick in 2nd
Browns go RB and ILB in 3rd
Browns go developmental QB in 4th (Garappolo, Brett Smith, McCarron, Fales...)
...
Profit...or disaster?
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Why is everyon down on Carr?
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Draft Carr. Start Hoyer. Hoyer stays healthy and plays the entire 2014 season. Carr starts when "ready", or when Hoyer gets injured in 2015 season.
What makes everyone so sure Hoyer's knee is gonna be good enough for him to be ready by the start of next season?
Most people are only about 80% at the 1yr mark after ACL surgery(Excluding AP of course)
This notion that both Hoyer and Lewis will be ready to go next September is pie in the sky
I hope the powers that be plan to be more prepared at QB & RB next august than they are right now!
What makes everyone so sure Hoyer's knee is gonna be good enough for him to be ready by the start of next season?
Most people are only about 80% at the 1yr mark after ACL surgery(Excluding AP of course)
This notion that both Hoyer and Lewis will be ready to go next September is pie in the sky
I hope the powers that be plan to be more prepared at QB & RB next august than they are right now!
Hoyer only had a partial tear. He didn't completely shred his knee.
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just cuz carr's brother sucked doesn't mean he will.
he threw for a ton of yards in that conference. i'd take him with our second overall pick, or his nemesis in fales in the 3rd. that was a great game to watch. both QBs throwing for over 400 yards with no defense to stop anybody.
manziel did the same thing with his god-awful D. score more points. but like i said in an earlier post, a lot of GMs are being scared away from these read option guys considering they're putting their 23 million dollar investment on the field with the ambulance doors wide open and the ER team standing by.
carr is a prototypical pocket passer. but i think we'll land bortles @4.
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Scenario A
Raiders trade up to #1 and pick Manziel
Vikings trade up to #2 and pick Bortles
Jaguars pick Bridgewater
Browns...?
...pick Sammy Watkins at #4, and trade up into the #14-20 range using their pick at #26 and a 3rd or 4th and draft Carr.
Is that so bad?
Or, Scenario B:
First 4 picks in the round go the same way as in Scenario A (Watkins)
Browns go CB with pick #26
Browns go OG with pick in 2nd
Browns go RB and ILB in 3rd
Browns go developmental QB in 4th (Garappolo, Brett Smith, McCarron, Fales...)
...
Profit...or disaster?
Scenario A
Raiders trade up to #1 and pick Manziel
Vikings trade up to #2 and pick Bortles
Jaguars pick Bridgewater
Browns...?
...pick Sammy Watkins at #4, and trade up into the #14-20 range using their pick at #26 and a 3rd or 4th and draft Carr.
Is that so bad?
Or, Scenario B:
First 4 picks in the round go the same way as in Scenario A (Watkins)
Browns go CB with pick #26
Browns go OG with pick in 2nd
Browns go RB and ILB in 3rd
Browns go developmental QB in 4th (Garappolo, Brett Smith, McCarron, Fales...)
...
Profit...or disaster?
I'd be happy with scenario B. I'll even state the picks for you:
1a - watkins
1b - Gilbert
2 - Richardson
3a - Skov
3b - Hyde? Might not be here.
4a - Garoppolo
4b - Smallwood
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@mike-h said:
Pretty bad under pressure. Faced inferior competition. Not great in fourth quarter. Third of his passes were screens, a lot of his yardage was YAC. System QB.
After actually watching him, that's my take.
This. He looked pretty terrible against USC, the only team worth a squirt of piss that they played all year.
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Nothing is wrong with Derek Carr if we get Sammy Watkins.
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You don't draft a WR to make your QB position better. You actually draft the QB. Teams have tried... a lot, in fact. It's wagging the dog. The Browns won't be waiting for Garroppolo or Fales to draft their QB in a QB league. Not a prayer.
It's Manziel, Bridgewater, or Bortles. That's the discussion. No team with a clear-cut #1 WR is going to draft another in the top 5 unless his name is Matt Millen. That's absurd. You can't get a return on that investment from a #2 WR (especially with an All Pro TE taking a lot of looks, too).
Horrible idea.
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I still like Carr. He is a smart QB and is probably the purest pocket passer in the draft. He has prototypical size, and great touch on his passes. Needs to improve his footwork. He does get rattled in the pocket which reminds me of Weeden, so that is a major concern, but he is younger and can move around. I'd take him at 26 if he fell, but I'm pretty sure we'll be drafting Bridgewater or Bortles at 4, so it's probably a moot point...
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You don't draft a WR to make your QB position better. You actually draft the QB. Teams have tried... a lot, in fact. It's wagging the dog. The Browns won't be waiting for Garroppolo or Fales to draft their QB in a QB league. Not a prayer.
It's Manziel, Bridgewater, or Bortles. That's the discussion. No team with a clear-cut #1 WR is going to draft another in the top 5 unless his name is Matt Millen. That's absurd. You can't get a return on that investment from a #2 WR (especially with an All Pro TE taking a lot of looks, too).
Horrible idea.
You don't draft a WR to make your QB position better. You actually draft the QB. Teams have tried... a lot, in fact. It's wagging the dog. The Browns won't be waiting for Garroppolo or Fales to draft their QB in a QB league. Not a prayer.
It's Manziel, Bridgewater, or Bortles. That's the discussion. No team with a clear-cut #1 WR is going to draft another in the top 5 unless his name is Matt Millen. That's absurd. You can't get a return on that investment from a #2 WR (especially with an All Pro TE taking a lot of looks, too).
Horrible idea.
dude i can't give you anymore slack. you are just one god-awful QB loving queef.
QB/passing league. really?
put up the stats right now with the teams left in the playoffs and how they won that you can say that this is a QB pass-happy league.
show me. show me right now!
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You don't draft a WR to make your QB position better. You actually draft the QB. Teams have tried... a lot, in fact. It's wagging the dog. The Browns won't be waiting for Garroppolo or Fales to draft their QB in a QB league. Not a prayer.
It's Manziel, Bridgewater, or Bortles. That's the discussion. No team with a clear-cut #1 WR is going to draft another in the top 5 unless his name is Matt Millen. That's absurd. You can't get a return on that investment from a #2 WR (especially with an All Pro TE taking a lot of looks, too).
Horrible idea.
You don't draft a WR to make your QB position better. You actually draft the QB. Teams have tried... a lot, in fact. It's wagging the dog. The Browns won't be waiting for Garroppolo or Fales to draft their QB in a QB league. Not a prayer.
It's Manziel, Bridgewater, or Bortles. That's the discussion. No team with a clear-cut #1 WR is going to draft another in the top 5 unless his name is Matt Millen. That's absurd. You can't get a return on that investment from a #2 WR (especially with an All Pro TE taking a lot of looks, too).
Horrible idea.
you do know that Gordon is one mistake away from a year suspension. watkins would be the insurance policy for that doomsday scenario.
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