Skip Bayless piece

Frenchie

Here's my take on JF. 1) It doesn't surprise me that of the 4 key management players (owner, GM, Coach. OC) that they were not all in love with this player. Everybody knows it was a high-risk move and a media/fan circus and that his special skills might not translate to the NFL. 2) I agree with hoorta above and I hope Hoyer is the same player he was in 3 games last season, allowing JF the time he needs to mature and learn. 3) JF needs to make adjustments to the NFL's pocket requirements, game speed and player talent or, given his style of play, he'll end up with more concussions and broken bones than he imagined. If he does not adjust, he'll not only be on the IR/POP, he'll be a bust. 4) If the Browns knew about his off-the-field drinking issues, they should have passed and picked another player. I really don't like the way he was portrayed in the article which started this thread. We all know many people who destroyed their careers with alcohol. 5) I don't really get what the excitement is all about. Lebron was a high-school phenom that went straight to the Pro's. JF is a small QB/Heisman Trophy winner that was picked in the 20's and not even the first QB selected. He scrambles well and is exciting to watch, but so what. What am I missing? Is he just this year's flavor like Tebow, RG3? I'm saving my excitement for the first time he takes the team down the field for a come-from-behind, 4th quarter touchdown.

hoorta

@frenchie said:
Here's my take on JF. 1) It doesn't surprise me that of the 4 key management players (owner, GM, Coach. OC) that they were not all in love with this player. Everybody knows it was a high-risk move and a media/fan circus and that his special skills might not translate to the NFL. 2) I agree with hoorta above and I hope Hoyer is the same player he was in 3 games last season, allowing JF the time he needs to mature and learn. 3) JF needs to make adjustments to the NFL's pocket requirements, game speed and player talent or, given his style of play, he'll end up with more concussions and broken bones than he imagined. If he does not adjust, he'll not only be on the IR/POP, he'll be a bust. 4) If the Browns knew about his off-the-field drinking issues, they should have passed and picked another player. I really don't like the way he was portrayed in the article which started this thread. We all know many people who destroyed their careers with alcohol. 5) I don't really get what the excitement is all about. Lebron was a high-school phenom that went straight to the Pro's. JF is a small QB/Heisman Trophy winner that was picked in the 20's and not even the first QB selected. He scrambles well and is exciting to watch, but so what. What am I missing? Is he just this year's flavor like Tebow, RG3? I'm saving my excitement for the first time he takes the team down the field for a come-from-behind, 4th quarter touchdown.

I'm glad you brought up the LeBron comparison- and that's what the JF fans need to realize. LeBum was a once in a generation talent- hell, he had Pro scouts drooling over him while he was in grade school, and practiced with the Cavs in HS. He had it all- the rare combination of size, speed and skill. With all the due respect to the JF fans- he doesn't have superhuman size, or speed- if he was 6'4", 230, and ran a 4.4 we wouldn't be having this discussion- you'd be having it with the Texans fans.

And I'm not belittling JFs HS or college feats- it's can you stay healthy enough long enough to use your talents?

miktoxic

@hoppy said:

There have certainly been undrafted free agents that have turned into excellent pros, no question at all about that. I am just saying that Hoyer is hardly an established starter.

He has started four games in his 5 year career.

that's four more starts than manziel. and?

@dantanna said:
I thought you were going to say BAYLESS was a POS. Makes more sense.

bayless is a POS. there I said it.

dumb all over. a little ugly on the side.

Nuckin Futz

@everlastingxxx said:

So who do you think starts against the Steelers? Since you are so high on this Hoyer guy, make a prediction.

That Hoyer guy.

miktoxic

@everlastingxxx said:

So who do you think starts against the Steelers? Since you are so high on this Hoyer guy, make a prediction.

i think it depends on who wins the job right? listen as much as some of us like to bust balls our ultimate goal as browns fans is for our team to win. if it's a toss up between hoyer and manziel i'm thinking the coaching staff defers to hoyer just cuz he has been there and they're not just throwing manziel into a high pressure situation he's never been in before. (yeah i know he's done it in HS and college blah blah blah) that just makes sense doesn't it?

now if manziel goes into training camp and blows the doors off and is head and shoulders above hoyer then i think you have to say F it and roll the dice. deal with the consequences then. if he starts and plays balls to the wall then we'll have a new king in cleveland. if he chokes, pull him and let him learn slowly. hopefully he won't be shell shocked. and before you jump down my throat i'm not saying he would joke or will choke i'm just trying to lay out different scenarios that could happen. i'm not dissing JF. hell we spent another #22 pick on a QB. any true browns' fan is hoping like hell that this FO has made the right choice in EACH and EVERY draft pick.

Tour2ma

@texasag1969 said:
The Browns realized several teams were trying to maneuver into that #22 spot to take him.

Haven't visited other thread where you originally inferred what you are now openly claiming. Maybe there you ID'd more teams than than the Vikes and us "trying to maneuver" for JM.

@hoppy said:
Of course he needs to earn the job, but lets be real here for a moment, he isn't competing with Peyton Manning... he is competing with a guy who is a former undrafted free agent, who has been cut by New England, Pittsburgh, and Arizona, has only started four games in his career... and that was before he blew his knee out.

None of which matters since as of now our HC has labeled Hoyer "the starter".

@hoorta said:
... I wouldn't be the least surprised if the Browns get the Hard Knocks gig. I'd hope Pettine overrules him on that one.

Can't see that being Pettine's call, but to allow Hard Knocks would be wildly inconsistent with the stance the organization has taken in barring the National media from the current rookie mini.

Bob806

@timpiker said:
I read it. Used to be called YELLOW JOURNALISM. All the more reason to BAN ESPN.

ESPN has become the "individualism" network, and it gets annoying.

Tiger, Kobe, Farve, Tebow, Peyton, Vick, Brady,A-Rod, LeBron, etc....it never ends. The only teams they seem to care about are the Yankees & Red Sox. Maybe Alabama football too.

I don't know who our QB will be after training camp, but our recent history vs Pittsburgh ('99-'13), and Dick LaBeau defensive schemes may not bode well for any rookie. Maybe JF is cocky enough to overcome that, but I doubt it.

Tour2ma

@everlastingxxx said:
So who do you think starts against the Steelers? Since you are so high on this Hoyer guy, make a prediction.

We have... there's a poll. As of my writing this it's just shy of 2:1 Hoyer.

http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=29250

calfoxwc

It takes time to develop a pro qb as a rookie. There's

tons of stuff to learn, then a lot of time

learning OJT about timing, etc.

I figure Hoyer definately starts.

Manziel's time will come and he'll be ready.

btt_stv

FYI this is the JFF your getting not the guy in Skip's hit piece.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/05/video_johnny_manziels_press_co.html

As for the starter-backup stuff it's way overblown. Johnny had to sit his freshman year and fight for the job with a good QB to win it his second. He knows the deal.

TexasAg1969

@tour2ma said:

Haven't visited other thread where you originally inferred what you are now openly claiming. Maybe there you ID'd more teams than than the Vikes and us "trying to maneuver" for JM.

Can't find the original article but this one will do well enough: see #4 in this article. The one I found earlier implied possibly one more besides Cleveland & Minn. This article names K.C. as the unnamed team.

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2014/05/terrys_talkin_johnny_manziel_c.html

hoorta

@everlastingxxx said:

So who do you think starts against the Steelers? Since you are so high on this Hoyer guy, make a prediction.

Hoyer. At least the first three games. That's murderer's row- Steelers on the road, Saints and Ravens at home. People will be screaming for JF though. I don't care how good JF looks in the preseason. Brandon We-done had a 60 completion %, and a 99 qbr. when the games didn't count last year. Really, if JF beats him out in training camp so be it, you don't draft a guy in the first round to be a backup. .

Westside Steve

Aaron Rodgers was drafted number 24 in the first round.

WSS

Tour2ma

@texasag1969 said:
Can't find the original article but this one will do well enough: see #4 in this article. The one I found earlier implied possibly one more besides Cleveland & Minn. This article names K.C. as the unnamed team.

So that's 2... Moving on...

KC was suspected to be interested in JM. Surprised me when the other article said they were not.

TopDawg31

@tour2ma said:

So that's 2... Moving on...

KC was suspected to be interested in JM. Surprised me when the other article said they were not.

It only takes one ahead of us to lose out

The Gipper

@taco918 said:

Please tell me how they are embarrassing him. Act like a backup?

They wouldn't have traded up in the draft if they were divided on him.

Actions speak louder than words.

Actually, to me, telling him to "act like a backup" is merely a motivational tool. It tells him "nothing is being give to you, you have to earn the starting job". And I think they know him well enough to believe that he will respond to this.