Brian Hoyer
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My edit didn't take the first time. Both would be a real stretch, though Santa Ana less so than Temple.
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My edit didn't take the first time. Both would be a real stretch, though Santa Ana less so than Temple.
My edit didn't take the first time. Both would be a real stretch, though Santa Ana less so than Temple.
OK, those towns at best would be "on the fringe" of Hill country. (as noted, my brother used to live there...in Kerrville...and my daughter goes to school in SA..
Best states at producing QBs? These are the states that, so far, have produced 3 or more HOF QBs:
Texas: Baugh/Temple, Layne/Santa Anna, YA Tittle/Marshall.
Ohio: Dawson/Alliance, Benny Friedman/Cleveland, Staubach/Cincinnati
California: Aikman/West Covina, Fouts/San Francisco, Moon/LA
Pennsylvania..the king at producing QBs: Unitas/Pittsburgh, Kelly/Pittsburgh...East Brady, Marino/Pittsburgh, Namath/Beaver Falls, Blanda/Youngwood, Montana/New Eagle
California could be catching up to PA a bit. When Brady/Rodgers make it that would give that state 2 more. Brees would have Texas another. BR would be another for Ohio. Favre would be the first QB HOFer for Mississippi. Peyton would give Louisiana a second with Bradshaw.
Kurt Warner would be the first Iowa born player to make the HOF at any position.
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Brain Hoyer was undrafted and cut by 3 different teams. I don't know how many great NFL QBs have taken that path before they turned on the greatness, but I know it's not many.
You can find me a similar story, or another long shot but the doesn't change anything. It's called data. Data can show you probabilities and can even rule some things out of being considered a reasonable expectation. Saying "Well this guy was drafted here and he became this" is relying on individual antidotal evidence and saying it nullifies the populous data. It does not. It's an outlier. Outliers can not be reasonably expected.
For instance a Running Back is going to run a better 40 time than a Lineman. Data proves this. Now there has been a lineman that has run a better 40 time than a running back before, but you can not have a reasonable expectation of that outcome. It's highly unlikely.
On a grander scale look at airplane travel. Data shows the safest form of commercial travel is by airplane. Planes do crash but they're so rare that you can not reasonably expect any plane you're on to crash. You could fly everyday multiple times and never die in a plane crash. Though they do happen, that doesn't change the rule the data has set.
If you jump out of a plane without a parachute, you will die. Data supports this. Now you can google and find people who have LIVED falling from planes. That doesn't change the rule. If you jump out of a airplane without a parachute, you will die. No reasonable expectation otherwise.
Brian Hoyer is a undrafted QB that has been cut 3 times. There's a reason for that. He's not going to be a great QB. You can say others have, but you have no reasonable expectation that he will. The data on that situation is overwhelming. Now of course you will all say something about Manziel I'm sure and you're right, first round draft picks don't always pan out. However the data will show there is a reasonable expectation that a first round draft pick will work out.
If you had to bet your life on Brian Hoyer making the Hall of Fame would you?
Now once again because you always have to respond with Manziel, I'll tell you right now I wouldn't bet my life on Manziel making the Hall of Fame.
HOWEVER if I had to take either Hoyer or Manziel and for my life I had to bet which one would make the Hall of Fame, I'd bet Manziel EVERYTIME all the time and so would you. Why? Because of the data. One was evaluated and undrafted and then evaluated by 3 other teams and cut from their team. The other won an award as the best college player, then was evaluated by NFL teams and chosen in the first round. The odds are much higher there.
If you think Hoyer is going to be a great QB, then you're fighting data. You're standing at the open door of a plane telling me you could survive jumping without a parachute. I'm telling you that you can't, but you're saying that you saw on the news that someone else did it.
The result is inevitable. History will not be kind to choosing against the data.
That's the last you'll see me speak about Brian Hoyer. Have at it.
Brain Hoyer was undrafted and cut by 3 different teams. I don't know how many great NFL QBs have taken that path before they turned on the greatness, but I know it's not many.
You can find me a similar story, or another long shot but the doesn't change anything. It's called data. Data can show you probabilities and can even rule some things out of being considered a reasonable expectation. Saying "Well this guy was drafted here and he became this" is relying on individual antidotal evidence and saying it nullifies the populous data. It does not. It's an outlier. Outliers can not be reasonably expected.
For instance a Running Back is going to run a better 40 time than a Lineman. Data proves this. Now there has been a lineman that has run a better 40 time than a running back before, but you can not have a reasonable expectation of that outcome. It's highly unlikely.
On a grander scale look at airplane travel. Data shows the safest form of commercial travel is by airplane. Planes do crash but they're so rare that you can not reasonably expect any plane you're on to crash. You could fly everyday multiple times and never die in a plane crash. Though they do happen, that doesn't change the rule the data has set.
If you jump out of a plane without a parachute, you will die. Data supports this. Now you can google and find people who have LIVED falling from planes. That doesn't change the rule. If you jump out of a airplane without a parachute, you will die. No reasonable expectation otherwise.
Brian Hoyer is a undrafted QB that has been cut 3 times. There's a reason for that. He's not going to be a great QB. You can say others have, but you have no reasonable expectation that he will. The data on that situation is overwhelming. Now of course you will all say something about Manziel I'm sure and you're right, first round draft picks don't always pan out. However the data will show there is a reasonable expectation that a first round draft pick will work out.
If you had to bet your life on Brian Hoyer making the Hall of Fame would you?
Now once again because you always have to respond with Manziel, I'll tell you right now I wouldn't bet my life on Manziel making the Hall of Fame.
HOWEVER if I had to take either Hoyer or Manziel and for my life I had to bet which one would make the Hall of Fame, I'd bet Manziel EVERYTIME all the time and so would you. Why? Because of the data. One was evaluated and undrafted and then evaluated by 3 other teams and cut from their team. The other won an award as the best college player, then was evaluated by NFL teams and chosen in the first round. The odds are much higher there.
If you think Hoyer is going to be a great QB, then you're fighting data. You're standing at the open door of a plane telling me you could survive jumping without a parachute. I'm telling you that you can't, but you're saying that you saw on the news that someone else did it.
The result is inevitable. History will not be kind to choosing against the data.
That's the last you'll see me speak about Brian Hoyer. Have at it.
I'm not even hping that Hoyer is going to be a great QB, but rather an average starter that can be a place holder until Manziel is ready. I meen shit, an average starter would be leaps and bounds better than what we have had since 1999. As a recent example, I would use McCown, would was undrafted (I think) and bounced around, and then had a very good season last year while he was starting.
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Just for the record. Fridays practice with the ones.
Manziel 2-6 no points
Hoyer. 6-6 2 td's.
I think you need to rematch the lions game. Yes manziel had a higher percentage. He only threw check downs. One pass was a 12 yd but every other pass was a check down. Hoyer had 3 drops over 20 yards. And still had more passing yards. Hoyer led two drives and had 6 points. (Won't bring up the drop by Gordon that should have been a Td). Manziel drove for 3 points. Manziel was also playing against guys who are probably not gonna see the field much if they even make the team. Hoyer was playing against the number ones. The only reason manziel is getting one reps is to keep the fans oohing like school girls to make money and keep Cleveland relevant.
Also Hoyer is named starter. If manziel is that awesome why isn't he starting?
I may not be able to bring up that many Cinderella stories but I can sure name all the first round draft picks that were a bust. 3 for Cleveland alone in the last 15 years.
Maybe I'm wrong and manziel is the savior. I don't care. All I want is some good f'n football for once in Cleveland.
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Hogan knows:
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Nice, thanks for that scoop Gumboner.
Are you saying Hoyer was named THE starter? Like, THE starter?
I know Johnny's the future, and I hope it's so bright we'll all be wearing shades. I just wanna see Brian get his shot though. I think he's earned it.
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No not for the year. But all the press saying for Washington manziel would be the starter. Instead Hoyer will start against Washington.
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Oh, gotcha. I'm gonna go hide and act like that future's so bright comment didn't happen now. That was pretty lame.
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Yeah, but Romo and Warner never went up against Manziel. And I'm not kidding when I say he'd beat out both of them in a fair competition, just like h's beating out Hoyer right now by every objective measure.
except he's not a better passer than Manziel is right now.
If you think that's Manziel's game then watch an actual game, because that couldn't be further from the truth. If anybody throws it up, it's Hoyer to Gordon. Manziel is twice the passer Hoyer is right now and the stats back that up. He consistently has a higher completion percentage than Hoyer.
read this back to yourself in a mirror and then ask yourself: "why do people on the browns board call me a johnny football fag?"
btw. gumboner76, funniest username ever.
read this back to yourself in a mirror and then ask yourself: "why do people on the browns board call me a johnny football fag?"
btw. gumboner76, funniest username ever.
Hey look, you want to call everyone fag and shit like that, fine. I don't care. I've watched a LOT of football in my life, I'd hazard more than just about anybody on this board unless you've ever been involved in football professionally. I've watched a lot of current starting NFL qbs from high school and through college. If they played football in Texas, then chances are I've been watching them since they were Juniors in high school. Johnny is the best I've ever seen. He's better than Tannehill, he's better than RG3, better than Drew Brees, better than Sam Bradford, and he's damn sure better than Brian Hoyer. I follow Johnny because he is that much fun to watch and he is that amazing. I hope that you guys as fans get to experience it, but to be honest, the way some of you act I don't think you deserve the joy he can bring you watching him play football. He will play harder than anybody else on your team if he is given the chance. You don't have a player that wants to win more than he does. It's pretty awesome to watch. But you bitter guys that call him "mini-me" and shit like that makes me hope you trade him to a franchise with a fanbase that respects what he has already accomplished, which is more than pretty much anybody on your team at this point.
I see you compare him to somebody like Wheedon or Colt McCoy and it makes me laugh. Colt McCoy couldn't make it one quarter against Alabama without getting hurt and pulling himself out the game. Johnny separated his shoulder against Auburn and missed one series. Neither Colt nor Wheedon won a Heisman as a freshman. If you'd watched those guys play in college you'd know how much Johnny outclasses either one of those guys. You should compare Johnny to guys like Hershel Walker or Adrian Peterson, guys who came close to winning Heismen as freshman, but nobody does that because he's 5'11" instead of 6'3".
You say you watched highlights and all he did was throw it up to Mike Evans. Do yourself a favor and go on youtube and watch a game. There are literally hundreds of plays by Manziel that don't make the highlight reels because, basically, you cannot include all the amazing plays and keep the highlights short enough for anybody to reasonably watch. The guy is an amazing passer, and anybody that actually watches him play realizes that.
This coaching staff may go with Hoyer, and I know a lot of people want Hoyer to start and Johnny to come off the bench if he struggles. My problem with that is that you are basically giving up any chance to make the playoffs or make a run in the playoffs if you do that. I really believe you have a chance to make a deep run in the playoffs if you start Johnny game one and let him start getting experience. I know you'll think this is crazy, but it wouldn't surprise me if you won the Superbowl with him his first year, if the coaching staff invests in him and gives him a chance.
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Just for the record. Fridays practice with the ones.
Manziel 2-6 no points
Hoyer. 6-6 2 td's.
I think you need to rematch the lions game. Yes manziel had a higher percentage. He only threw check downs. One pass was a 12 yd but every other pass was a check down. Hoyer had 3 drops over 20 yards. And still had more passing yards. Hoyer led two drives and had 6 points. (Won't bring up the drop by Gordon that should have been a Td). Manziel drove for 3 points. Manziel was also playing against guys who are probably not gonna see the field much if they even make the team. Hoyer was playing against the number ones. The only reason manziel is getting one reps is to keep the fans oohing like school girls to make money and keep Cleveland relevant.
Also Hoyer is named starter. If manziel is that awesome why isn't he starting?
I may not be able to bring up that many Cinderella stories but I can sure name all the first round draft picks that were a bust. 3 for Cleveland alone in the last 15 years.
Maybe I'm wrong and manziel is the savior. I don't care. All I want is some good f'n football for once in Cleveland.
Just for the record. Fridays practice with the ones.
Manziel 2-6 no points
Hoyer. 6-6 2 td's.
I think you need to rematch the lions game. Yes manziel had a higher percentage. He only threw check downs. One pass was a 12 yd but every other pass was a check down. Hoyer had 3 drops over 20 yards. And still had more passing yards. Hoyer led two drives and had 6 points. (Won't bring up the drop by Gordon that should have been a Td). Manziel drove for 3 points. Manziel was also playing against guys who are probably not gonna see the field much if they even make the team. Hoyer was playing against the number ones. The only reason manziel is getting one reps is to keep the fans oohing like school girls to make money and keep Cleveland relevant.
Also Hoyer is named starter. If manziel is that awesome why isn't he starting?
I may not be able to bring up that many Cinderella stories but I can sure name all the first round draft picks that were a bust. 3 for Cleveland alone in the last 15 years.
Maybe I'm wrong and manziel is the savior. I don't care. All I want is some good f'n football for once in Cleveland.
I saw Hoyer miss two passes high and skip another one off the turf. I saw Johnny throw one bad ball. Johnny is a better passer than Hoyer. Any statistical category you want to compare Johnny is better.
Maybe he's not dominating him three weeks into his rookie season, but project a little here. If it's this close now, how close will it be once Johnny is allowed to work with the ones as much as Hoyer and he gets comfortable playing at the NFL speed. Johnny will dominate Hoyer. There is nothing that Hoyer does better than Johnny. Doesn't throw a better ball, doesn't complete higher percentage of passes, doesn't run better. I guess he manages the huddle better, whatever that means, but it's not like Johnny can't do that, too. He's smarter than Hoyer is and will pass him in every mental category as he becomes more comfortable running this system.
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The only stat that matters is who drives for points. And Hoyer is ahead.
Don't care about projections either. Who is best for winning now. Hoyer is.
He's more comfortable. In the pocket. Reads defenses better. Who leads the team better Hoyer. Who reads the field better, Hoyer.
Maybe Johnny should have studied film a little more than the bar menu. Who knows.
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Johnny is a a college football legend.
I had him rated the best QB in the draft; ahead of Bortles and Bridgewater ... And I will stand by that.
But you have to understand a couple things:
1. He's 5'11, throws from 3/4 (unlike equally small Bree's and Wilson who throw over top) and a big part of his game is taking off and running, and NFL defenders are lethal ... Take the best defender of an SEC team, give him NFL experience, and then times him by 11.
2. He was drafted 22. So 21 times a team said " um ... Yeah ... No thanks." And Browns fans in particular have swallowed bitter late first round pills.
So, don't just be patient with JFF ... Be patient with Browns fans.
This is the NFL ... Where college legends meet their mortality.
Just let it play out. And don't be a homo.
Z
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Jesus Christ.
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Johnny is a a college football legend.
I had him rated the best QB in the draft; ahead of Bortles and Bridgewater ... And I will stand by that.
But you have to understand a couple things:
1. He's 5'11, throws from 3/4 (unlike equally small Bree's and Wilson who throw over top) and a big part of his game is taking off and running, and NFL defenders are lethal ... Take the best defender of an SEC team, give him NFL experience, and then times him by 11.
2. He was drafted 22. So 21 times a team said " um ... Yeah ... No thanks." And Browns fans in particular have swallowed bitter late first round pills.
So, don't just be patient with JFF ... Be patient with Browns fans.
This is the NFL ... Where college legends meet their mortality.
Just let it play out. And don't be a homo.
Z
Zombo said:
1. He's 5'11, throws from 3/4 (unlike equally small Bree's and Wilson who throw over top) and a big part of his game is taking off and running, and NFL defenders are lethal ... Take the best defender of an SEC team, give him NFL experience, and then times him by 11.
2. He was drafted 22. So 21 times a team said " um ... Yeah ... No thanks." And Browns fans in particular have swallowed bitter late first round pills.
1. Manziel has yet to take a pass in a real live NFL game and you're already saying he can't throw like Brees or Wilson in the NFL????
2. Way to bring up Brees who went 33 overall so 32 times a team said "um....yeah.... No thanks"
Russell Wilson? 66 or 67 times a team said "um....yeah....no thanks".
I appreciate your takes but this was just lazy, sloppy writing on a whim.
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read this back to yourself in a mirror and then ask yourself: "why do people on the browns board call me a johnny football fag?"
btw. gumboner76, funniest username ever.
Hey look, you want to call everyone fag and shit like that, fine. I don't care. I've watched a LOT of football in my life, I'd hazard more than just about anybody on this board unless you've ever been involved in football professionally. I've watched a lot of current starting NFL qbs from high school and through college. If they played football in Texas, then chances are I've been watching them since they were Juniors in high school. Johnny is the best I've ever seen. He's better than Tannehill, he's better than RG3, better than Drew Brees, better than Sam Bradford, and he's damn sure better than Brian Hoyer. I follow Johnny because he is that much fun to watch and he is that amazing. I hope that you guys as fans get to experience it, but to be honest, the way some of you act I don't think you deserve the joy he can bring you watching him play football. He will play harder than anybody else on your team if he is given the chance. You don't have a player that wants to win more than he does. It's pretty awesome to watch. But you bitter guys that call him "mini-me" and shit like that makes me hope you trade him to a franchise with a fanbase that respects what he has already accomplished, which is more than pretty much anybody on your team at this point.
I see you compare him to somebody like Wheedon or Colt McCoy and it makes me laugh. Colt McCoy couldn't make it one quarter against Alabama without getting hurt and pulling himself out the game. Johnny separated his shoulder against Auburn and missed one series. Neither Colt nor Wheedon won a Heisman as a freshman. If you'd watched those guys play in college you'd know how much Johnny outclasses either one of those guys. You should compare Johnny to guys like Hershel Walker or Adrian Peterson, guys who came close to winning Heismen as freshman, but nobody does that because he's 5'11" instead of 6'3".
You say you watched highlights and all he did was throw it up to Mike Evans. Do yourself a favor and go on youtube and watch a game. There are literally hundreds of plays by Manziel that don't make the highlight reels because, basically, you cannot include all the amazing plays and keep the highlights short enough for anybody to reasonably watch. The guy is an amazing passer, and anybody that actually watches him play realizes that.
This coaching staff may go with Hoyer, and I know a lot of people want Hoyer to start and Johnny to come off the bench if he struggles. My problem with that is that you are basically giving up any chance to make the playoffs or make a run in the playoffs if you do that. I really believe you have a chance to make a deep run in the playoffs if you start Johnny game one and let him start getting experience. I know you'll think this is crazy, but it wouldn't surprise me if you won the Superbowl with him his first year, if the coaching staff invests in him and gives him a chance.
But you bitter guys that call him "mini-me" and shit like that makes me hope you trade him to a franchise with a fanbase that respects what he has already accomplished, which is more than pretty much anybody on your team at this point.
I see you compare him to somebody like Wheedon or Colt McCoy and it makes me laugh.
You say you watched highlights and all he did was throw it up to Mike Evans.
you directed this post at me.
ok buttbongo show me anywhere in any post on this board where i said any of that. i dare you. i'll bet you right now you won't find it cuz it didn't happen, so you and all your other fuckin friends who like putting words in people's mouths need to stop your shit. cuz you look like a fool.
fool.
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Zombo said:
1. He's 5'11, throws from 3/4 (unlike equally small Bree's and Wilson who throw over top) and a big part of his game is taking off and running, and NFL defenders are lethal ... Take the best defender of an SEC team, give him NFL experience, and then times him by 11.
2. He was drafted 22. So 21 times a team said " um ... Yeah ... No thanks." And Browns fans in particular have swallowed bitter late first round pills.
1. Manziel has yet to take a pass in a real live NFL game and you're already saying he can't throw like Brees or Wilson in the NFL????
2. Way to bring up Brees who went 33 overall so 32 times a team said "um....yeah.... No thanks"
Russell Wilson? 66 or 67 times a team said "um....yeah....no thanks".
I appreciate your takes but this was just lazy, sloppy writing on a whim.
1. Manziel has yet to take a pass in a real live NFL game and you're already saying he can't throw like Brees or Wilson in the NFL????
2. Way to bring up Brees who went 33 overall so 32 times a team said "um....yeah.... No thanks"
Russell Wilson? 66 or 67 times a team said "um....yeah....no thanks".
I appreciate your takes but this was just lazy, sloppy writing on a whim.
this coming from a hollywood reject.
too bad you didn't land that role as the lead in that snuff film.
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1. Manziel has yet to take a pass in a real live NFL game and you're already saying he can't throw like Brees or Wilson in the NFL????
2. Way to bring up Brees who went 33 overall so 32 times a team said "um....yeah.... No thanks"
Russell Wilson? 66 or 67 times a team said "um....yeah....no thanks".
I appreciate your takes but this was just lazy, sloppy writing on a whim.
this coming from a hollywood reject.
too bad you didn't land that role as the lead in that snuff film.
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Zombo said:
1. He's 5'11, throws from 3/4 (unlike equally small Bree's and Wilson who throw over top) and a big part of his game is taking off and running, and NFL defenders are lethal ... Take the best defender of an SEC team, give him NFL experience, and then times him by 11.
2. He was drafted 22. So 21 times a team said " um ... Yeah ... No thanks." And Browns fans in particular have swallowed bitter late first round pills.
1. Manziel has yet to take a pass in a real live NFL game and you're already saying he can't throw like Brees or Wilson in the NFL????
2. Way to bring up Brees who went 33 overall so 32 times a team said "um....yeah.... No thanks"
Russell Wilson? 66 or 67 times a team said "um....yeah....no thanks".
I appreciate your takes but this was just lazy, sloppy writing on a whim.
Walter, I understand you aren't too bright, maybe that explains the acting thing.1. Manziel has yet to take a pass in a real live NFL game and you're already saying he can't throw like Brees or Wilson in the NFL????
2. Way to bring up Brees who went 33 overall so 32 times a team said "um....yeah.... No thanks"
Russell Wilson? 66 or 67 times a team said "um....yeah....no thanks".
I appreciate your takes but this was just lazy, sloppy writing on a whim.
But what I was saying was that the two Exceptions who are small guys that have succeeded in the current NFL have more pro style throwing motions and less dependency on making plays with their feet.
I believe in Johnny. But forgive those that don't ... Because they haven't seen anything like him in a long time (Tarkenton).
Z
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But you bitter guys that call him "mini-me" and shit like that makes me hope you trade him to a franchise with a fanbase that respects what he has already accomplished, which is more than pretty much anybody on your team at this point.
I see you compare him to somebody like Wheedon or Colt McCoy and it makes me laugh.
You say you watched highlights and all he did was throw it up to Mike Evans.
you directed this post at me.
ok buttbongo show me anywhere in any post on this board where i said any of that. i dare you. i'll bet you right now you won't find it cuz it didn't happen, so you and all your other fuckin friends who like putting words in people's mouths need to stop your shit. cuz you look like a fool.
fool.
you directed this post at me.
ok buttbongo show me anywhere in any post on this board where i said any of that. i dare you. i'll bet you right now you won't find it cuz it didn't happen, so you and all your other fuckin friends who like putting words in people's mouths need to stop your shit. cuz you look like a fool.
fool.
seriously man, are you twelve years old?
I directed that post at you because you are the guy who quoted me and called me "gay" for Johnny, or whatever. I used "you" in the general term meaning your and your five or six buddies on here that you tailgate with and apparently swap fart jokes with and call each other homos. If you didn't say any of those things, then I apologize. Maybe grow the fuck up and start talking a like an adult about this stuff and I will not lump you in with the other meatheads on this forum.
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Johnny is a a college football legend.
I had him rated the best QB in the draft; ahead of Bortles and Bridgewater ... And I will stand by that.
But you have to understand a couple things:
1. He's 5'11, throws from 3/4 (unlike equally small Bree's and Wilson who throw over top) and a big part of his game is taking off and running, and NFL defenders are lethal ... Take the best defender of an SEC team, give him NFL experience, and then times him by 11.
2. He was drafted 22. So 21 times a team said " um ... Yeah ... No thanks." And Browns fans in particular have swallowed bitter late first round pills.
So, don't just be patient with JFF ... Be patient with Browns fans.
This is the NFL ... Where college legends meet their mortality.
Just let it play out. And don't be a homo.
Z
Zombo said:
Johnny is a a college football legend.
I had him rated the best QB in the draft; ahead of Bortles and Bridgewater ... And I will stand by that.
But you have to understand a couple things:
1. He's 5'11, throws from 3/4 (unlike equally small Bree's and Wilson who throw over top) and a big part of his game is taking off and running, and NFL defenders are lethal ... Take the best defender of an SEC team, give him NFL experience, and then times him by 11.
2. He was drafted 22. So 21 times a team said " um ... Yeah ... No thanks." And Browns fans in particular have swallowed bitter late first round pills.
So, don't just be patient with JFF ... Be patient with Browns fans.
This is the NFL ... Where college legends meet their mortality.
Just let it play out. And don't be a homo.
Z
come on, you mention Brees and Wilson who were both drafted significantly behind Johnny. Instead of focusing on why Johnny was drafted 22, maybe you should ask yourself why Johnny is the shortest qb drafted in the first round in over 60 years.
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