Fan patience
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i've got all the patience in the world as long as i see progress. in recent years there hasn't been much except a couple of key acquisitions. i firmly believe this is the best FO and coaching staff the browns have had since the 80s.
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I've been in Hoyer's camp since I saw him last year - the guy has the ability to play good ball.
Once we lost Mack and the Run game, things fell apart for him and our Offense.
I mean when you're getting Sacked by a 3 Man Rush you've got more than just a QB problem . . . and how about that 1.9 yd/rush we were sporting there for a while?
I think the above really affected Hoyer and his timing's been off ever since
Gordon coming back looks to have hurt more than it helped since he was Hoyer's new Hi-Octane target, but unfortunately the rust and everyone else shuffling positions/duties was even more of a negative impact.
Have to say, I've been pretty depressed at how Hoyer and the O has fallen - we've just been brutal to that position.
I think Brian will bounce back, but sadly I doubt it will be here - he'd be a stellar Backup QB, which is not what he wants I know.
Having said that, now that Manziel's the man, I'm 100% behind him and will be hoping he does well.
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I've been patient. I went to my first game as a kid in 1964 against the Bears and we lost. I was there for Brian Sipe's "Red Right 88"
I sat numb watching "The Fumble" and "The drive". I mourned the team when Modell stuck it to us and rejoiced when Michael White fought to keep the "team's history" and colors. I agonized when they chose Tim Couch no. 1 overall and Courtney Brown the next year.
I watched coaches come and go but my loyalty never wavered. I was baffled by the lack of interest by Mike Holmgren because it seemed his draft picks were not well scouted. (Haden was a miracle). Year after year I kept waiting and watching the draft live on TV. I saw mind boggling decisions and a lousy product on the field.
Then a miracle happened. New Ownership. A brand new start! And a chance to finally get respect amongst our football peers. Yea, I've been patient. I'm still a Browns fan and will die a Browns fan. And I'm giving Haslam time. At least a few years because it won't happen overnight. But we have to progress not digress as a team.
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Faded said:
Most of us who registered on this board because of Manziel, actually went to A&M (I suspect - I haven't taken a survey or anything). So, in my mind, the comparison just doesn't really work. This is not a guy who didn't stick on my favorite pro team and then went somewhere else; he's a guy that was a smashing success at my school and now I'd like to see him succeed at the next level. Good for him, good for our program, good for you. And it never occurred to me that the Browns would or should pull Hoyer when he was winning games.
I don't know about sitting for a few years, but I do think sitting for 13 games has certainly helped (or at least I would hope so). Still, as good as the Cleveland defense is, and if the running game can revive itself a bit, this mignt not be that bad a situation for him to start in.
One thing that worries me is how he will handle Cleveland winter weather. He grew up and played in Texas. I don't remember what the worst conditions he's played in are, but nothing like the freezing slop that you guys get sometime, so that might cause some concern. His mobility should help, but you never know until someone proves they can handle it.
So, I agree that there likely will be some less than stellar moments over the next 3 games. I just hope the upside outweighs them. I hope he can connect on a few long ones with Gordon, a make a few plays with his feet, and do enough of that to offset a pick or two that could certainly be thrown. I hope the Browns play good D, run the ball well, and keep him down under 30 or so passing attempts, while still moving the chains.
Didn't you beat Cincy with a pretty good running attack last time? Is that likely to be repeated? That would be huge (of course).
But look, the guy is not replacing Joe Montana. Hoyer was solid early on, but it's been a while. It took me 3 quarters of the season to think he should start (if they weren't going to go with him at the beginning; I didn't know much about Hoyer).
hoyer actually played very well in the first cincy game after a bad defeat. that was the last of his good play. now it's manziel's turn. plain and simple. no need for any backstory's at this point.
here's to YOUR a and m QB turning into OUR nfl franchise QB.
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Just thought i'd start a thread about a concern of mine. The fan's patience. After chatting with many Carolina fans, it seems they have 100% confidence in Derek Anderson. He did pretty good in his start against tampa bay, 24-34, 230 yrds, 2 tds. He will get the call this week in Carolina & potentially against us. This begs the question....with Anderson, Weedon, & McCoy still doing their thing, did Browns let loose too early. Brady Quinn is done, & you know Hoyer will get picked up somewhere. I just feel that the fans are encouraging knee jerk reactions. There is absolutely no harm in leaving Hoyer in for the rest of the year. Don't get me wrong. Im very excited to see Manziel, but i feel the fans tend to put an unbearable amount of pressure on new QB's then practicly lynch them out of town when they are mediocre. Hoyer isn't necessarily a newbie, but the amount of pressure had to be redicilous. "Hey guy, don't f up or you're gone". Not the most comfortable situation to be in. It would be incredibly ironic & f'd up frankly if Anderson came in & won next week. I honestly don't think it will happen with our D, however Browns don't play down to teams that well (not that we would necessarily be "playing down" to them.) I just have more confidence when Browns are the underdawg. Your thoughts?
Just thought i'd start a thread about a concern of mine. The fan's patience. After chatting with many Carolina fans, it seems they have 100% confidence in Derek Anderson. He did pretty good in his start against tampa bay, 24-34, 230 yrds, 2 tds. He will get the call this week in Carolina & potentially against us. This begs the question....with Anderson, Weedon, & McCoy still doing their thing, did Browns let loose too early. Brady Quinn is done, & you know Hoyer will get picked up somewhere. I just feel that the fans are encouraging knee jerk reactions. There is absolutely no harm in leaving Hoyer in for the rest of the year. Don't get me wrong. Im very excited to see Manziel, but i feel the fans tend to put an unbearable amount of pressure on new QB's then practicly lynch them out of town when they are mediocre. Hoyer isn't necessarily a newbie, but the amount of pressure had to be redicilous. "Hey guy, don't f up or you're gone". Not the most comfortable situation to be in. It would be incredibly ironic & f'd up frankly if Anderson came in & won next week. I honestly don't think it will happen with our D, however Browns don't play down to teams that well (not that we would necessarily be "playing down" to them.) I just have more confidence when Browns are the underdawg. Your thoughts?
There is some merit and pondering to do with your commentary and I understand where you are coming from. Having said that you are dead wrong when you say we have nothing to lose by leaving Hoyer in the rest of the year. Look I was a huge fan and still appreciate his story but as Pettine said " its a results oriented business". Like many high pressure jobs its not what you have done but rather what have you done lately. The results over the last 4 weeks leave no sensible decision other than to make the QB change. I wish Hoyer the best and if he has to start for us again I hope he regroups BUT at the end of the day I am a Browns fan, not a Hoyer or Manziel fan. As a fan I say TEAR THE LEAGUE UP JOHHNY FOOTBALL
hoyer actually played very well in the first cincy game after a bad defeat. that was the last of his good play. now it's manziel's turn. plain and simple. no need for any backstory's at this point.
here's to YOUR a and m QB turning into OUR nfl franchise QB.
Very well said Mik
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I've been in Hoyer's camp since I saw him last year - the guy has the ability to play good ball.
Once we lost Mack and the Run game, things fell apart for him and our Offense.
I mean when you're getting Sacked by a 3 Man Rush you've got more than just a QB problem . . . and how about that 1.9 yd/rush we were sporting there for a while?
I think the above really affected Hoyer and his timing's been off ever since
Gordon coming back looks to have hurt more than it helped since he was Hoyer's new Hi-Octane target, but unfortunately the rust and everyone else shuffling positions/duties was even more of a negative impact.
Have to say, I've been pretty depressed at how Hoyer and the O has fallen - we've just been brutal to that position.
I think Brian will bounce back, but sadly I doubt it will be here - he'd be a stellar Backup QB, which is not what he wants I know.
Having said that, now that Manziel's the man, I'm 100% behind him and will be hoping he does well.
I've been in Hoyer's camp since I saw him last year - the guy has the ability to play good ball.
Agree... For me it was not an issue of Hoyer's ceiling... it was high enough. It was a matter of his consistency at a level close enough to that. If you've shown the attic, then you should spend most of your time at least on the 2nd floor. But we saw too much basement and first floor.
And you know I think Mack was the key...
Faded said:
Most of us who registered on this board because of Manziel, actually went to A&M (I suspect - I haven't taken a survey or anything). So, in my mind, the comparison just doesn't really work. This is not a guy who didn't stick on my favorite pro team and then went somewhere else; he's a guy that was a smashing success at my school and now I'd like to see him succeed at the next level. Good for him, good for our program, good for you. And it never occurred to me that the Browns would or should pull Hoyer when he was winning games.
It's fanboys like you that just infuriate us "haters" with your logic and common sense and above all, your objectivity. Makes it so hard on us what with having to remember who's the good fanboy and who's the bad fanboy...
So, were you in the Corps?
Didn't you beat Cincy with a pretty good running attack last time? Is that likely to be repeated? That would be huge (of course).
Yes... ran for 170+ with West leading the way with 26 for 94 yds. It was McDonald's 3rd start at Center.
here's to YOUR a and m QB turning into OUR nfl franchise QB.
If you are allergic to the ampersand in "A&M", then you can always just type TAMU...
You're welcome...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Good comments from everyone.... I think i figured out the problem. We have some Johnny fans in here who aren't necessarily Browns fans. Ugh... It seems as though these fans in addition to the Lebron James/johnny Manziel Network (ESPN) has been pouring on way too much hype, which then sets Cleveland up for more disappointment. We'll just wait & see i guess.
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I've been in Hoyer's camp since I saw him last year - the guy has the ability to play good ball.
Agree... For me it was not an issue of Hoyer's ceiling... it was high enough. It was a matter of his consistency at a level close enough to that. If you've shown the attic, then you should spend most of your time at least on the 2nd floor. But we saw too much basement and first floor.
And you know I think Mack was the key...
Faded said:
Most of us who registered on this board because of Manziel, actually went to A&M (I suspect - I haven't taken a survey or anything). So, in my mind, the comparison just doesn't really work. This is not a guy who didn't stick on my favorite pro team and then went somewhere else; he's a guy that was a smashing success at my school and now I'd like to see him succeed at the next level. Good for him, good for our program, good for you. And it never occurred to me that the Browns would or should pull Hoyer when he was winning games.
It's fanboys like you that just infuriate us "haters" with your logic and common sense and above all, your objectivity. Makes it so hard on us what with having to remember who's the good fanboy and who's the bad fanboy...
So, were you in the Corps?
Didn't you beat Cincy with a pretty good running attack last time? Is that likely to be repeated? That would be huge (of course).
Yes... ran for 170+ with West leading the way with 26 for 94 yds. It was McDonald's 3rd start at Center.
here's to YOUR a and m QB turning into OUR nfl franchise QB.
If you are allergic to the ampersand in "A&M", then you can always just type TAMU...
You're welcome...
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McCoy and Anderson are solid back ups, weeden should thank his lucky stars he is on an NFL roster at all.
Weeden looks like a garbage pail kid and has the IQ of a band aid. Thank Christ we never have to suffer through another Browns game quarterbacked by that water-trash.
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McCoy and Anderson are solid back ups, weeden should thank his lucky stars he is on an NFL roster at all.
Weeden looks like a garbage pail kid and has the IQ of a band aid. Thank Christ we never have to suffer through another Browns game quarterbacked by that water-trash.
Weeden looks like a garbage pail kid and has the IQ of a band aid. Thank Christ we never have to suffer through another Browns game quarterbacked by that water-trash.
more like a sun scorched peeling raisin laying in the basin of a AZ water way culvert, parched and oblivious to schwarzenneger as the terminator blowing through the guard rail from above.
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My patience is still here, been a fan since my dad took me to my first game in 1970 (I was 7). I still get pissed off after a loss, and I was really irritated leaving the stadium Sunday- all we needed was a TD after the Leonhard INT, but nope. Then the shitty PI call on Skrine, another loss.
I too was pulling for Hoyer, he was playing so well before Mack went down. The season was so promising (I know, it really isn't over yet, we still have a tiny chance if we win out). It just sucks to no end to see a team that was gelling at 6-3 hit the skids.
JF may provide a spark, I hope so. The move had to be done.
The future is bright. Our HC isn't perfect, but he's the best we've had in awhile. Farmer seems to be on top of things. We have closed the gap on our division rivals.
Karlis Missed -
I believe Theodore Roosevelt said it a lot better than I can:
THE MAN IN THE ARENA
Excerpt from the speech "Citizenship In A Republic"
delivered at the Sorbonne, in Paris, France on 23 April, 1910
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat -
My patience is still here, been a fan since my dad took me to my first game in 1970 (I was 7). I still get pissed off after a loss, and I was really irritated leaving the stadium Sunday- all we needed was a TD after the Leonhard INT, but nope. Then the shitty PI call on Skrine, another loss.
I too was pulling for Hoyer, he was playing so well before Mack went down. The season was so promising (I know, it really isn't over yet, we still have a tiny chance if we win out). It just sucks to no end to see a team that was gelling at 6-3 hit the skids.
JF may provide a spark, I hope so. The move had to be done.
The future is bright. Our HC isn't perfect, but he's the best we've had in awhile. Farmer seems to be on top of things. We have closed the gap on our division rivals.
Teddy could really turn a phrase... Reminds me that I still have the third installment of Morris' TR trilogy to read.
... before Mack went down. The season was so promising...
Take just a second to put together in your head the O-line play/Offense we saw early with the D we see now.
No matter the QB, that image is dizzying...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Teddy could really turn a phrase... Reminds me that I still have the third installment of Morris' TR trilogy to read.
... before Mack went down. The season was so promising...
Take just a second to put together in your head the O-line play/Offense we saw early with the D we see now.
No matter the QB, that image is dizzying...
Teddy could really turn a phrase... Reminds me that I still have the third installment of Morris' TR trilogy to read.
Take just a second to put together in your head the O-line play/Offense we saw early with the D we see now.
No matter the QB, that image is dizzying...
Only in Cleveland......yuck. Let's win out and do some damage in the postseason. Balls to the wall last 3 games. These men can do it!
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Yes all 3 of them are still in the league, but they are all backups and that's all they will ever be. They get their chances due to injury or ineffective play. The are NOT starting QB's though
Yes all 3 of them are still in the league, but they are all backups and that's all they will ever be. They get their chances due to injury or ineffective play. The are NOT starting QB's though
Precisely. Unfortunately the Browns have used a bunch of backup QBs...or worse. Really, only Tim Couch could have been considered to be a starting NFL QB for more than a 1 year period....but he got hurt and he lost his confidence...and played for some awful teams.
We have had washed up starters like Dilfer/Garcia/Delhomme/Jason Campbell. Third round reaches like Frye/McCoy who didn't pan out. Frye...out of the league....McCoy is a backup. We have had first round busts like Quinn and Weeden. A few younger veterans that showed some promise but didn't ultimately pan out as hoped: Holcomb/Anderson/Hoyer
NONE of these guys ever went away from here to secure a full time starting gig.
We have not had a real NFL starting QB on this team since before "the move" (with the possible exception of Couch). Vinny and Bernie were the last ones we have had really
We now need to have one. We have had bad luck with like 20 guys in a row not fitting the bill.
Johnny Manzeil is now #21.....and we need to hit Blackjack with him.
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I am very impatient with Cundiff. He's gotta go.
I am very impatient with Cundiff. He's gotta go.
If it wasn't for his long KO's I think he'd be gone already, but yeah, it's hard to believe there's not someone more accurate out there.
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