I know this is a mary kay report...

[Westside Steve]

@tour2ma said:

Jameis is a risky, risky pick...

Poker with the Squeelers.

I'll see your rapist and raise you a shoplifter...

WSS

[Clevfan4life]

@westside-steve said:

Poker with the Squeelers.

I'll see your rapist and raise you a shoplifter...

WSS

you win tonight, that was awesome.

[hoorta]

@lumbergh said:

MARIOTA?? Well that would match the trend wouldn't it? What is it about the Browns that they can't stop themselves from drafting the latest overrated and overhyped players? Mariota can't make NFL throws and he is an NFL dumpster fire waiting to happen, a la Lady Queen and Johnny Midge. So I guess it figures that Cleveland would want him.

Remember, every QB from Nike University has put up video game numbers since 2007, and zero of those guys are currently in the NFL.

Only difference is Mariota will at least stay off of Instagram.

[Kosar_For_President]

She munches carpet

[ITHIKA]

Draftin manziel was a huge downfall. Hes a wasted 1st rnder yet again and will.be a side show until hes cut.

[ITHIKA]

1st rnd blows. Brady queen. Brandon old man weeden. Johnny foosball. Im fucking tired of spending 1st rnd draft picks on hype. I WANT FOOTBALL PLAYERS

[ITHIKA]

Teddy b lookin likE the real deal.

[Opal312]

It wasn't bad enough last time trading away our number 4 and then trading back to number 8 like we had just won ten Super Bowls this decade. No it just wasn't bad enough!

Let's do it again and end up with a shit load of crappy ex Heisman winners. Why not call up Tebow!

[tml1138]

Worst case if JM is a bust...well, that was the T-Rich pick from the last regime. Would've been nice to salvage it, but if not so be it and time to move on. Hey, we've got the Bills pick in 2015 and they lost to Oakland yesterday.

[Westside Steve]

@opal312 said:

It wasn't bad enough last time trading away our number 4 and then trading back to number 8 like we had just won ten Super Bowls this decade. No it just wasn't bad enough!

Let's do it again and end up with a shit load of crappy ex Heisman winners. Why not call up Tebow!

A - there haven't in 10 Super Bowls played this decade.

B - as it stands Tim Tebow probably would have won us more games this past season than either of our quarterbacks.

WSS

[Tour2ma]

Tebow? More than 7 wins?

Are you testing me?

[Manzier]

Tebow is a good lesson for JM. He'd still be in the league, failing miserably for someone, if he didn't have the extra baggage and circus atmosphere surrounding him.

JM probably has another year and then another team to prove himself. If not for the circus, he'd have 2 years and then 2 teams waiting.

[Westside Steve]

@tour2ma said:

Tebow? More than 7 wins?

Are you testing me?

Actually given the same set of circumstances why not?

WSS

[Westside Steve]

So do you suppose we'll give Marcus Mariota 7 quarters to make or break his career?

The over under in Browns town seems to be six these days.

WSS

[Tour2ma]

@westside-steve said:

Actually given the same set of circumstances why not?

Inability to read D's and subhuman accuracy... Need more?

@westside-steve said:

So do you suppose we'll give Marcus Mariota 7 quarters to make or break his career?

The over under in Browns town seems to be six these days.

Mariota won't be ours, but were he... more... much more. Why? There's no sign of "entitlement" in his make up.

JM's chances of developing into a QB worthy of the franchise label, ala Russell Wilson, are not yet over, but they have declined. You are now depending upon an immature, 22-yo, millionaire to knuckle down this off-season and learn his craft.

How do you like his chances?

[Westside Steve]

Hard to tell tour.

I'm serious when I say that the knock against Johnny has been, like the hype for him, a figment of sports writers fans and broadcast professionals imaginations and need for talk fodder.

Even though it often means nothing in the NFL he at least had a stellar college career, good enough to win the award for outstanding player. So I don't think it's crazy to think there's a possibility of him being good, very good or possibly better.

Just being a blue collar guy going to bed at 11 o'clock after watching the news with your wife and kid doesn't make you any better.

We tend to imagine variables like the ability to read defense or knowledge of the playbook neither of which do we really know anything about.

If anybody can actually read a defense then I'd expect them to change the play at the line of scrimmage everytime and make positive yardage.

If it boils down to the idea that you'd give Mariota more time since you just like him better then there's not much reason for us to argue. Right?

Or making excuses for Blake Bortles.

But to answer your question I'll give Johnny a full season. Which, as you recall, I supported for Brian.

WSS

[Tour2ma]

@westside-steve said:

Hard to tell tour.

I'm serious when I say that the knock against Johnny has been, like the hype for him, a figment of sports writers fans and broadcast professionals imaginations and need for talk fodder.

Even though it often means nothing in the NFL he at least had a stellar college career, good enough to win the award for outstanding player. So I don't think it's crazy to think there's a possibility of him being good, very good or possibly better.

Just being a blue collar guy going to bed at 11 o'clock after watching the news with your wife and kid doesn't make you any better.

We tend to imagine variables like the ability to read defense or knowledge of the playbook neither of which do we really know anything about.

If anybody can actually read a defense then I'd expect them to change the play at the line of scrimmage everytime and make positive yardage.

If it boils down to the idea that you'd give Mariota more time since you just like him better then there's not much reason for us to argue. Right?

Or making excuses for Blake Bortles.

But to answer your question I'll give Johnny a full season. Which, as you recall, I supported for Brian.

Can't say I recall your season-long endorsement, but will say I believe you did if you say you did... Good enough?

Again though I have to say that my liking or not liking a player is not the issue; it has zero bearing on my evaluation. I honestly do not even think in those terms. For you to keep thinking that I do think in those terms unduly strains our discussions. In essence I write, "I do not like 1, 2 and 3 about Player X therefore in my opinion his chances of success are low," and you read, "Tour does not like Player X and therefor he harps upon 1, 2, and 3."

If you can't trust me on that, there's nothing I can write to change that perception. And with that in mind...

No, it's not crazy to think JM can succeed. I just don't think the odds are good that he will. I also believe that the higher the performance level you target, the lower the odds.

Collar color has nothing to do with it. Work ethic has a great deal to do with success. Work efficiency is also a factor though. Piles of inefficient hours don't add up to much.

It was clear coming out of A&M that JM did not read D's. He looked for open receivers. It's common for collegiate QBs. Wheezy did it. RG3 did it. It's very common. And JM failed at all three reads: Pre-snap, Snap and Post-snap. Sure no one makes them all. Pre-snap Reads are hidden. False reads are displayed.At the Snap is the D shifting or confirming the Pre? Post-snap is the Safety moving as expected? It's why you have to make all three. You have to make a high percentage to even be average in the NFL.

I like Mariota's chances better than Manziel's.

I like Bortles chances better than Manziel's.

I liked McCarron's chances better than Manziel's... going to be a while on that one.

I do not "know" any of them. I do not like or dislike any of them. But, because he is ours, I have followed JM most closely this past year. And, no, I do not like a lot of what he has done (behaviors). Nor do I like a lot of the characteristics he has displayed. But most of all I have not liked what I have seen on the field.

Finally, if pointing out that Bortles plays on a team that is inferior to the Browns is making excuses... then I'm guilty. But try shining your bright light of truth on "the knock against Johnny has been, like the hype for him, a figment of sports writers fans and broadcast professionals imaginations."

[Mudfly]

To take tours comments one further.....there are a lot of people with an emotional stake in the whole JM thing. At least thats how it appears. Personally I, like Tour, try to take a more pragmatic approach to all these guys. Including JM. Of course, its hard for the emotionally attached to read anything in a pragmatic tone though.

Johnny had a big good list and a big bad list coming out of college. Everybody knows that. The existence of the lists is not disputed, but whats on the lists is. The lovers said all the negs are wrong. And the haters said all the negs are right. The lovers said all the positives would make him a star. And the haters said all the positives wont translate to the NFL. So....

There were some GREAT things that he did and the JFF lovers latched onto those things.

• Things like his will to win
• his ability to extend the play
• the ability to run
• as well as a decent arm and accuracy...

Then there was the bad list......

• Seemed immature and too focused on the party
• No experience with a Pro style offense or play book
• Not good at reading defenses
• Not good at staying in the pocket
• Too small

And, the bottom line is that if you PRAGMATICALLY start checkin boxes....it's the bottom list thats getting the checks...

So, this is a guy who had a lot of knocks on him from day #1 and those knocks....so far....seem to be what we see....

And he had a LOT of plusses and upside, but....so far....those things have not manifested...in practice, the public eye or a game

Like Bullychuck always said......"I can only go by what I see".....

[Westside Steve]

Tour I'd have to go back to quote where you said you would give Mariota more time than you've given Johnny because he seems to be less of a Bella Figura? If I misread that statement sorry.

WSS

[Westside Steve]

@tour2ma said:

Inability to read D's and subhuman accuracy... Need more?

Mariota won't be ours, but were he... more... much more. Why? There's no sign of "entitlement" in his make up.

JM's chances of developing into a QB worthy of the franchise label, ala Russell Wilson, are not yet over, but they have declined. You are now depending upon an immature, 22-yo, millionaire to knuckle down this off-season and learn his craft.

How do you like his chances?

No sign of entitlement, something I bet neither you nor I know the slightest thing about him.

WSS