Time to grow up
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The problem with this past season was DL. I'm hoping NT Shelton from UW is our first pick.
Sure, draft a RT with the second first rounder because OL wasn't great after Mack left.. but really, that's weak point #4 at this point.
Weak points number 1, 2, and 3 on the Browns right now are every starting DL spot.
Desmond Bryant is average as a starter, Armonty Bryant flashed but might not be consistent, everyone else is a backup.
The Gordon show doesn't rate at all.
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I don't know if he hinders it, but he doesn't add anything at this point.
We are going to have to ride the Johnny train this season and it either busts out or starts to show promise. And we should. We have a 3 game sample. That isn't enough. We also need to see if he is starting to take some of the advice to heart and he isn't tabloid material every month or so. Next weekend is a big week with the SuperBowl. I expect he will be seen. I don't expect him to hole up all off season. It's more the "where" and "when's" that will tell the tale. Is it at a nice restaurant with his party or is it at some nighclub at 2AM? Big difference. The guy needs to stay away from the clubs for a while as was shown a few weeks ago. The guy is a target. He may not be the cause of the trouble, but it seems trouble is going to seek him.
I understand the optics, but that's about all they are. Maybe football professionals share the feelings of the great unwashed, maybe not. I just wonder if anyone could write a list of his transgressions that really mean anything and are not really TMZ style rumors and innuendo?
WSS
I understand the optics, but that's about all they are. Maybe football professionals share the feelings of the great unwashed, maybe not. I just wonder if anyone could write a list of his transgressions that really mean anything and are not really TMZ style rumors and innuendo?
WSS
I agree with you. However, it seems the Browns staff isn't happy, innuendo or not, so it is what it is.
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I don't know if he hinders it, but he doesn't add anything at this point.
We are going to have to ride the Johnny train this season and it either busts out or starts to show promise. And we should. We have a 3 game sample. That isn't enough. We also need to see if he is starting to take some of the advice to heart and he isn't tabloid material every month or so. Next weekend is a big week with the SuperBowl. I expect he will be seen. I don't expect him to hole up all off season. It's more the "where" and "when's" that will tell the tale. Is it at a nice restaurant with his party or is it at some nighclub at 2AM? Big difference. The guy needs to stay away from the clubs for a while as was shown a few weeks ago. The guy is a target. He may not be the cause of the trouble, but it seems trouble is going to seek him.
I understand the optics, but that's about all they are. Maybe football professionals share the feelings of the great unwashed, maybe not. I just wonder if anyone could write a list of his transgressions that really mean anything and are not really TMZ style rumors and innuendo?
WSS
I just wonder if anyone could write a list of his transgressions that really mean anything and are not really TMZ style rumors and innuendo?
WSS
Not really rumors or innuendo, as people aren't speculating about his activities....they are photographing and reporting them....(there is a difference)...
It's about whether you consider them transgressions or not, that is really the point.
To provide an opposing view next to that list of transgressions, lets see if anyone can make a list of positives he brought to the team in terms of professionalism, overall effort or actual play.....
Which list would be longer?.....positives? ....or negatives?
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In the past the Cowboys have been the poster child of flash before talent. Jerry finallygrew up and got a line for his team. The Browns should follow suit. With the emergence of the running game and the line missing a bit an ol should be our top pick. And keep Hoyer and not take another qb let it come to us instead of for forcing it. As the cowboy took to ball out of romo's hand. Do the same take the pressure off of Hoyer. Then get rid of the distractions Manziel and Gilbert keep skrinne and get some pass rushers free agent trade or in the draft. And the third thing is to trade gordon or get him a baby sitter. As well as get another wr opposite of his cooper or white. We have got to move past this dam dumb notion you have to have a top ten qb to win. The raven won it all with dilfer. Fix the lines get a wr that will catch the ball and things will correct them selves. The cards and Hawks did this and Wilson fell into there lap and the cards are right where the Hawks were two hours ago everything but the qb. And be honest with your selves is there anybody that is better the Hoyer at this point the Browns can get or draft and the answer is no. And if I was to project cardell jones will be the best qb to come out since luck and wilson
In the past the Cowboys have been the poster child of flash before talent. Jerry finallygrew up and got a line for his team. The Browns should follow suit. With the emergence of the running game and the line missing a bit an ol should be our top pick. And keep Hoyer and not take another qb let it come to us instead of for forcing it. As the cowboy took to ball out of romo's hand. Do the same take the pressure off of Hoyer. Then get rid of the distractions Manziel and Gilbert keep skrinne and get some pass rushers free agent trade or in the draft. And the third thing is to trade gordon or get him a baby sitter. As well as get another wr opposite of his cooper or white. We have got to move past this dam dumb notion you have to have a top ten qb to win. The raven won it all with dilfer. Fix the lines get a wr that will catch the ball and things will correct them selves. The cards and Hawks did this and Wilson fell into there lap and the cards are right where the Hawks were two hours ago everything but the qb. And be honest with your selves is there anybody that is better the Hoyer at this point the Browns can get or draft and the answer is no. And if I was to project cardell jones will be the best qb to come out since luck and wilson
Well said! I have been preaching this for a while. All the reaches for QB's have set them back. I got blasted a few years ago when I said stick with Anderson for another couple years and build in other areas first. Now how many swing and misses on QB's have there been since Anderson. Stick with Hoyer and don't let Johnny Beiber be a distraction. Get that WR and fix the line!
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I just wonder if anyone could write a list of his transgressions that really mean anything and are not really TMZ style rumors and innuendo?
WSS
Not really rumors or innuendo, as people aren't speculating about his activities....they are photographing and reporting them....(there is a difference)...
It's about whether you consider them transgressions or not, that is really the point.
To provide an opposing view next to that list of transgressions, lets see if anyone can make a list of positives he brought to the team in terms of professionalism, overall effort or actual play.....
Which list would be longer?.....positives? ....or negatives?
Wait, so the list of transgressions includes the fact that he's been photographed at night clubs, correct? And as I recall from the tweets the time frame has been somewhere between 130 and 3 o'clock. So that's it? That's your damning photographic evidence?Not really rumors or innuendo, as people aren't speculating about his activities....they are photographing and reporting them....(there is a difference)...
It's about whether you consider them transgressions or not, that is really the point.
To provide an opposing view next to that list of transgressions, lets see if anyone can make a list of positives he brought to the team in terms of professionalism, overall effort or actual play.....
Which list would be longer?.....positives? ....or negatives?
Uh okay?
Any arrest? DUI's? Any failed drug test? Any broken team or league rule? Anything of that sort? Ever miss a team meeting or miss a treatment? I'm waiting. So far we have the fact he's going out to night clubs and was late for a hamstring treatment.
WSS
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I just wonder if anyone could write a list of his transgressions that really mean anything and are not really TMZ style rumors and innuendo?
WSS
Not really rumors or innuendo, as people aren't speculating about his activities....they are photographing and reporting them....(there is a difference)...
It's about whether you consider them transgressions or not, that is really the point.
To provide an opposing view next to that list of transgressions, lets see if anyone can make a list of positives he brought to the team in terms of professionalism, overall effort or actual play.....
Which list would be longer?.....positives? ....or negatives?
Not really rumors or innuendo, as people aren't speculating about his activities....they are photographing and reporting them....(there is a difference)...
It's about whether you consider them transgressions or not, that is really the point.
To provide an opposing view next to that list of transgressions, lets see if anyone can make a list of positives he brought to the team in terms of professionalism, overall effort or actual play.....
Which list would be longer?.....positives? ....or negatives?
Please read again Steve....Im not arguing what he's done is right or wrong and aint going done THAT road for the millionth time.....Im just saying it's not rumor, its documented....... And my second point(now highlighted in red) simply states your point....which is....some dont think he's doing anything wrong....and some do.....
But it's a tired argument.....we've rehashed the "transgressions" over and over.....lets take a different perspective...
Wait, so the list of transgressions includes the fact that he's been photographed at night clubs, correct?
I think that would be on the list, yes. IF your making a list of transgressions and you consider this a transgression. Some do. You dont.
And as I recall from the tweets the time frame has been somewhere between 130 and 3 o'clock. So that's it? That's your damning photographic evidence? Not MY evidence. Please dont put words in my mouth, as I dont think I was damning anybody?, was I? I, like you, just asked for a list....
Uh okay?
Any arrest? DUI's? Any failed drug test? Any broken team or league rule? Anything of that sort? Ever miss a team meeting or miss a treatment? I'm waiting. So far we have the fact he's going out to night clubs and was late for a hamstring treatment.
I dont have a list and aint gonna debate all his little stories that make the news. The real issue is if his FO and coach think theres a problem
WSS
So, Im not taking a stand or attacking all the negative stuff here....but AM stepping up and asking for the positive. Any job or business has to weigh the good and the bad, right?....so lets make a "good list", instead of rehashing all the negatives...........you start!
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I just wonder if anyone could write a list of his transgressions that really mean anything and are not really TMZ style rumors and innuendo?
WSS
Not really rumors or innuendo, as people aren't speculating about his activities....they are photographing and reporting them....(there is a difference)...
It's about whether you consider them transgressions or not, that is really the point.
To provide an opposing view next to that list of transgressions, lets see if anyone can make a list of positives he brought to the team in terms of professionalism, overall effort or actual play.....
Which list would be longer?.....positives? ....or negatives?
Maybe that statement is the source of our misunderstanding. Anyway I guess it doesn't matter. It seems to me that people are hyperventilating over nothing. If I lumped you and with them and if I'm wrong, sorry.Not really rumors or innuendo, as people aren't speculating about his activities....they are photographing and reporting them....(there is a difference)...
Does anything that has been photographs and reported bother you?
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
I just wonder if anyone could write a list of his transgressions that really mean anything and are not really TMZ style rumors and innuendo?
WSS
Not really rumors or innuendo, as people aren't speculating about his activities....they are photographing and reporting them....(there is a difference)...
It's about whether you consider them transgressions or not, that is really the point.
To provide an opposing view next to that list of transgressions, lets see if anyone can make a list of positives he brought to the team in terms of professionalism, overall effort or actual play.....
Which list would be longer?.....positives? ....or negatives?
To provide an opposing view next to that list of transgressions, lets see if anyone can make a list of positives he brought to the team in terms of professionalism, overall effort or actual play.....
A lot of folks had very long lists of positives...
and then they saw JM play...
and then they heard him explain his play.
Haven't seen a list since.
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Maybe that statement is the source of our misunderstanding. Anyway I guess it doesn't matter. It seems to me that people are hyperventilating over nothing. If I lumped you and with them and if I'm wrong, sorry.Not really rumors or innuendo, as people aren't speculating about his activities....they are photographing and reporting them....(there is a difference)...
Does anything that has been photographs and reported bother you?
WSS
Maybe that statement is the source of our misunderstanding. Anyway I guess it doesn't matter. It seems to me that people are hyperventilating over nothing. If I lumped you and with them and if I'm wrong, sorry.
Does anything that has been photographs and reported bother you?
WSS
The photo of JM rolling the $20 dollar bill in the bathroom bothered me. It bothered the Browns org. enough where they had Pettine who was on vacation at the time make a personal call to JM.
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Maybe that statement is the source of our misunderstanding. Anyway I guess it doesn't matter. It seems to me that people are hyperventilating over nothing. If I lumped you and with them and if I'm wrong, sorry.
Does anything that has been photographs and reported bother you?
WSS
The photo of JM rolling the $20 dollar bill in the bathroom bothered me. It bothered the Browns org. enough where they had Pettine who was on vacation at the time make a personal call to JM.
And that would be a red flag for me too. Are riokies drug tested as often as regular players?The photo of JM rolling the $20 dollar bill in the bathroom bothered me. It bothered the Browns org. enough where they had Pettine who was on vacation at the time make a personal call to JM.
That would call for an immediate test in my opinion. No idea how long cocaine stays in the system but it would in a hair follicle I'm assuming?
WSS
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And that would be a red flag for me too. Are riokies drug tested as often as regular players?The photo of JM rolling the $20 dollar bill in the bathroom bothered me. It bothered the Browns org. enough where they had Pettine who was on vacation at the time make a personal call to JM.
That would call for an immediate test in my opinion. No idea how long cocaine stays in the system but it would in a hair follicle I'm assuming?
WSS
And that would be a red flag for me too. Are riokies drug tested as often as regular players?
That would call for an immediate test in my opinion. No idea how long cocaine stays in the system but it would in a hair follicle I'm assuming?
WSS
I don't know if the NFL uses the hair follicle testing. With the urine screens cocaine stays in the system 3-5 days.
I did read this:
Players are tested for banned recreational drugs only once per year. If Manziel had his test during offseason workouts, he faces no further testing until April 20, 2015.
Unless, of course, the powers-that-be regard the photo as reasonable cause for asking Manziel to donate a cup of urine for insertion into a machine that will determine whether the urine contains evidence of any banned substances.
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Maybe that statement is the source of our misunderstanding. Anyway I guess it doesn't matter. It seems to me that people are hyperventilating over nothing. If I lumped you and with them and if I'm wrong, sorry.Not really rumors or innuendo, as people aren't speculating about his activities....they are photographing and reporting them....(there is a difference)...
Does anything that has been photographs and reported bother you?
WSS
Maybe that statement is the source of our misunderstanding.......It seems to me that people are hyperventilating over nothing. If I lumped you and with them and if I'm wrong, sorry.
Does anything that has been photographs and reported bother you?
I think it's about the extremes that we see daily on this board.......There are folks who are hyperventilating(over reacting?) and there are some who think everything's fine(under reacting?)....dont want to be lumped with either group....
But I do see a lot that bothers me because I think of NFL qb's as executive type professionals who have reached the highest level....its a job that only 20-30 people in the whole world can do....and I think it takes total commitment & extreme effort to achieve this level.....and, yes, sacrifice too (which our guy clearly states he's not gonna do )
And if you aint willing to sacrifice some things and work hard to succeed, then you dont deserve the rewards of the job.....
Haven't seen a list since.
I made one....JFF's list is very heavy on one side.....
The photo of JM rolling the $20 dollar bill in the bathroom bothered me. It bothered the Browns org. enough where they had Pettine who was on vacation at the time make a personal call to JM.
Yep, it bothered the Browns too.....which is what REALLY counts.....
If I got called on vacation about a new employee and his personal issues, I guarantee I would be pissed and it would effect his standing in the company.....
And if it happened over and over.....well, it wouldn't actually.....because he'd be unemployed.....
And that would be a red flag for me too. Are riokies drug tested as often as regular players?
That would call for an immediate test in my opinion. No idea how long cocaine stays in the system but it would in a hair follicle I'm assuming?
WSS
And that "red flag" thing is what most rational people are pointing to......There are actually "many many" red flags, which is the problem most of us have.....
And there is nothing on the "good side" to balance those red flags.......like some touchdowns or effort or something.....anything......
So...I've answered your questions.....how about you answer mine.....do you have a good list of his contributions to the team???
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Maybe that statement is the source of our misunderstanding.......It seems to me that people are hyperventilating over nothing. If I lumped you and with them and if I'm wrong, sorry.
Does anything that has been photographs and reported bother you?
I think it's about the extremes that we see daily on this board.......There are folks who are hyperventilating(over reacting?) and there are some who think everything's fine(under reacting?)....dont want to be lumped with either group....
But I do see a lot that bothers me because I think of NFL qb's as executive type professionals who have reached the highest level....its a job that only 20-30 people in the whole world can do....and I think it takes total commitment & extreme effort to achieve this level.....and, yes, sacrifice too (which our guy clearly states he's not gonna do )
And if you aint willing to sacrifice some things and work hard to succeed, then you dont deserve the rewards of the job.....
Haven't seen a list since.
I made one....JFF's list is very heavy on one side.....
The photo of JM rolling the $20 dollar bill in the bathroom bothered me. It bothered the Browns org. enough where they had Pettine who was on vacation at the time make a personal call to JM.
Yep, it bothered the Browns too.....which is what REALLY counts.....
If I got called on vacation about a new employee and his personal issues, I guarantee I would be pissed and it would effect his standing in the company.....
And if it happened over and over.....well, it wouldn't actually.....because he'd be unemployed.....
And that would be a red flag for me too. Are riokies drug tested as often as regular players?
That would call for an immediate test in my opinion. No idea how long cocaine stays in the system but it would in a hair follicle I'm assuming?
WSS
And that "red flag" thing is what most rational people are pointing to......There are actually "many many" red flags, which is the problem most of us have.....
And there is nothing on the "good side" to balance those red flags.......like some touchdowns or effort or something.....anything......
So...I've answered your questions.....how about you answer mine.....do you have a good list of his contributions to the team???
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Maybe that statement is the source of our misunderstanding.......It seems to me that people are hyperventilating over nothing. If I lumped you and with them and if I'm wrong, sorry.
Does anything that has been photographs and reported bother you?
I think it's about the extremes that we see daily on this board.......There are folks who are hyperventilating(over reacting?) and there are some who think everything's fine(under reacting?)....dont want to be lumped with either group....
But I do see a lot that bothers me because I think of NFL qb's as executive type professionals who have reached the highest level....its a job that only 20-30 people in the whole world can do....and I think it takes total commitment & extreme effort to achieve this level.....and, yes, sacrifice too (which our guy clearly states he's not gonna do )
And if you aint willing to sacrifice some things and work hard to succeed, then you dont deserve the rewards of the job.....
Haven't seen a list since.
I made one....JFF's list is very heavy on one side.....
The photo of JM rolling the $20 dollar bill in the bathroom bothered me. It bothered the Browns org. enough where they had Pettine who was on vacation at the time make a personal call to JM.
Yep, it bothered the Browns too.....which is what REALLY counts.....
If I got called on vacation about a new employee and his personal issues, I guarantee I would be pissed and it would effect his standing in the company.....
And if it happened over and over.....well, it wouldn't actually.....because he'd be unemployed.....
And that would be a red flag for me too. Are riokies drug tested as often as regular players?
That would call for an immediate test in my opinion. No idea how long cocaine stays in the system but it would in a hair follicle I'm assuming?
WSS
And that "red flag" thing is what most rational people are pointing to......There are actually "many many" red flags, which is the problem most of us have.....
And there is nothing on the "good side" to balance those red flags.......like some touchdowns or effort or something.....anything......
So...I've answered your questions.....how about you answer mine.....do you have a good list of his contributions to the team???
Contributions? Like what? He played in 1 complete game and didn't look very good at all. Not much worse the rest of the players including the old pros. But still....I think it's about the extremes that we see daily on this board.......There are folks who are hyperventilating(over reacting?) and there are some who think everything's fine(under reacting?)....dont want to be lumped with either group....
But I do see a lot that bothers me because I think of NFL qb's as executive type professionals who have reached the highest level....its a job that only 20-30 people in the whole world can do....and I think it takes total commitment & extreme effort to achieve this level.....and, yes, sacrifice too (which our guy clearly states he's not gonna do )
And if you aint willing to sacrifice some things and work hard to succeed, then you dont deserve the rewards of the job.....
I made one....JFF's list is very heavy on one side.....
Yep, it bothered the Browns too.....which is what REALLY counts.....
If I got called on vacation about a new employee and his personal issues, I guarantee I would be pissed and it would effect his standing in the company.....
And if it happened over and over.....well, it wouldn't actually.....because he'd be unemployed.....
And that "red flag" thing is what most rational people are pointing to......There are actually "many many" red flags, which is the problem most of us have.....
And there is nothing on the "good side" to balance those red flags.......like some touchdowns or effort or something.....anything......
So...I've answered your questions.....how about you answer mine.....do you have a good list of his contributions to the team???
I'm saying that if the front office doesn't think he has talent to play in the nfl they should cut him right now and not waste time and energy. If they believe as strongly has some of the experts here on this board what the hell are they waiting for?
WSS
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To provide an opposing view next to that list of transgressions, lets see if anyone can make a list of positives he brought to the team in terms of professionalism, overall effort or actual play.....
A lot of folks had very long lists of positives...
and then they saw JM play...
and then they heard him explain his play.
Haven't seen a list since.
A lot of folks had very long lists of positives...
and then they saw JM play...
and then they heard him explain his play.
Haven't seen a list since.
This is what scares me. Other than one series against the Bills when the game was out of reach I haven't seen a glimpse of anything that makes me believe Manziel has the physical tools to be a successful NFL QB. Now add to that what appears to be a complete lack of mental acuity and I really don't know what anyone in the Browns organization saw that made them think that Manziel was worth the 22nd pick in the draft.
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It is past time for JM to grow up. When he couldn't beat Hoyer out as starter that should have gotten his attention he needed to step up his game. He should have known right away he would have to work hard to be a good QB, that it wasn't going to come easy. He had plenty of time as back up to learn the play book and when he started the Bengals game he did not know all the plays and guys on the offense were explaining them to him in the huddle. Compare that with Connor Shaw who had very little time to prepare against the Ravens.
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My "Browns news" google page is full of articles today referencing the ESPN.com report with 20 Browns sources trashing JM to one degree or another, on and off the record.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
My "Browns news" google page is full of articles today referencing the ESPN.com report with 20 Browns sources trashing JM to one degree or another, on and off the record.
My "Browns news" google page is full of articles today referencing the ESPN.com report with 20 Browns sources trashing JM to one degree or another, on and off the record.
Frustrating Tour. The Browns have been taking some good steps forward and much of it is lost on our drafting of Manziel. I just wish Connor Shaw would get ahold of the State Farm pump you up guys. He really impressed me in the Ravens game but I just don't know if he is big enough and has a strong enough arm. I like his mental attitude and he seems like a smart QB.
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