Article: How to Fix the Cleveland Browns by September
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I like the take but I disagree with the QB plan.
We don't need to waste money on a FA QB. This FA class is suspect, we'd be paying money for a lot of guys with potential and only a few with measurable production.
A lot of people are clamoring over Nick Foles for good reason. However, there's still a question of whether or not he could emulate the same success in a non-Chip Kelly system. Look what Sanchez was able to do.
Why pay NFL-veteran money for a "possibility"?
If they're keen on going with a tall pocket passer, I'd rather see them draft Sean Mannion in round 3 or 4 and have him compete in training camp. With a solid offensive line and a legitimate running game, Mannion is capable of putting together a very solid season.
If they're going for physical ceiling, I'd like to see them take Hundley. Hundley certainly has issues but his ceiling is probably the highest of all of the mid-round prospects.
I think Shaw earned a chance to compete. Shaw, in this scenario, is comparable to Wilson. Smart, mechanically sound, undersized, a student of the game. However unlikely it is that he'll earn the job, he's at least earned the opportunity.
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No thanks.
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foles at least has proven he can play in the nfl. and playing against nfc east defenses cannot be the easiest thing.
play.
not saying he's a world beater but why take a chance on another rookie 'project' when you can get someone that you have actually seen play at this level? see our rookie play (ha!) last year? who's to say hundley (who i actually like) petty or any other kid coming out this year can play at an nfl level?
foles: higher price, lower risk.
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foles at least has proven he can play in the nfl. and playing against nfc east defenses cannot be the easiest thing.
play.
not saying he's a world beater but why take a chance on another rookie 'project' when you can get someone that you have actually seen play at this level? see our rookie play (ha!) last year? who's to say hundley (who i actually like) petty or any other kid coming out this year can play at an nfl level?
foles: higher price, lower risk.
foles at least has proven he can play in the nfl. and playing against nfc east defenses cannot be the easiest thing.
play.
not saying he's a world beater but why take a chance on another rookie 'project' when you can get someone that you have actually seen play at this level? see our rookie play (ha!) last year? who's to say hundley (who i actually like) petty or any other kid coming out this year can play at an nfl level?
foles: higher price, lower risk.
I'd normally agree with that, but the mere fact that Sanchez was able to not only be serviceable, but to some extent excel, worries me.
Sanchez's rating in 2014 was 10 points higher than any other season in the NFL. He completed 64% of his passes, 8% more than his best season in New York.
If Mark Sanchez can find success under Chip Kelly, who's to say it's not the system?
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
foles at least has proven he can play in the nfl. and playing against nfc east defenses cannot be the easiest thing.
play.
not saying he's a world beater but why take a chance on another rookie 'project' when you can get someone that you have actually seen play at this level? see our rookie play (ha!) last year? who's to say hundley (who i actually like) petty or any other kid coming out this year can play at an nfl level?
foles: higher price, lower risk.
I'd normally agree with that, but the mere fact that Sanchez was able to not only be serviceable, but to some extent excel, worries me.
Sanchez's rating in 2014 was 10 points higher than any other season in the NFL. He completed 64% of his passes, 8% more than his best season in New York.
If Mark Sanchez can find success under Chip Kelly, who's to say it's not the system?
I'd normally agree with that, but the mere fact that Sanchez was able to not only be serviceable, but to some extent excel, worries me.
Sanchez's rating in 2014 was 10 points higher than any other season in the NFL. He completed 64% of his passes, 8% more than his best season in New York.
If Mark Sanchez can find success under Chip Kelly, who's to say it's not the system?
gotcha.
could be. could also be the fact that sanchez got out from all the media firestorms here in NY. also even with his miraculous rebirth there were times last year where he reverted to the 'same old sanchez'.
not to say philly fans and media aren't just as bad as NY or maybe worse butt.....
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I'd normally agree with that, but the mere fact that Sanchez was able to not only be serviceable, but to some extent excel, worries me.
Sanchez's rating in 2014 was 10 points higher than any other season in the NFL. He completed 64% of his passes, 8% more than his best season in New York.
If Mark Sanchez can find success under Chip Kelly, who's to say it's not the system?
gotcha.
could be. could also be the fact that sanchez got out from all the media firestorms here in NY. also even with his miraculous rebirth there were times last year where he reverted to the 'same old sanchez'.
not to say philly fans and media aren't just as bad as NY or maybe worse butt.....
gotcha.
could be. could also be the fact that sanchez got out from all the media firestorms here in NY. also even with his miraculous rebirth there were times last year where he reverted to the 'same old sanchez'.
not to say philly fans and media aren't just as bad as NY or maybe worse butt.....
Dude compared to whom, us?
WSS
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gotcha.
could be. could also be the fact that sanchez got out from all the media firestorms here in NY. also even with his miraculous rebirth there were times last year where he reverted to the 'same old sanchez'.
not to say philly fans and media aren't just as bad as NY or maybe worse butt.....
Dude compared to whom, us?
WSS
Dude compared to whom, us?
WSS
i doubt if the plain dealer or beacon journal ever printed a photo of a weeden pick 6 with some foul demeaning as hell headline along the lines of what the NY media does to anyone that fails.
a lot of people just can't take the pressure to play in NY.
ask the big unit.
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Whatever I can't imagine it being worse than this board but...
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Liked the article and it does reinforce what the knowledgeable guys on here are saying.
But gumby, JM to the practice squad? He'd be gone the next day when we could at least trade him for a late rounder at this point. PS would be like gift wrapping him and putting him on a Greyhound thru Philly on the way to Dallas. Someone would meet him at one of those two stops and not have to give us anything in return. At least have the pleasure of getting something out of Jerrah. He's still in charge when it comes to something like that.
Liked the article and it does reinforce what the knowledgeable guys on here are saying.
But gumby, JM to the practice squad? He'd be gone the next day when we could at least trade him for a late rounder at this point. PS would be like gift wrapping him and putting him on a Greyhound thru Philly on the way to Dallas. Someone would meet him at one of those two stops and not have to give us anything in return. At least have the pleasure of getting something out of Jerrah. He's still in charge when it comes to something like that.
JM I am right there with you but on a rookie contract with these front office tight wads, I just don't see it yet. Proof 50mill above cap 2015 and we had cap 2014 left over and never used it... Love the Talent not the player and Upgrade. Huge problem in Farmer and Haslem on JM and Pettine needs to stop both of them or become jobless or refuse the puppet strings and he may still become jobless. Proof Shanny.. Proof Butts in the seats (ticket sales) and Jersey Sales overrode Talent
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foles at least has proven he can play in the nfl. and playing against nfc east defenses cannot be the easiest thing.
play.
not saying he's a world beater but why take a chance on another rookie 'project' when you can get someone that you have actually seen play at this level? see our rookie play (ha!) last year? who's to say hundley (who i actually like) petty or any other kid coming out this year can play at an nfl level?
foles: higher price, lower risk.
I'd normally agree with that, but the mere fact that Sanchez was able to not only be serviceable, but to some extent excel, worries me.
Sanchez's rating in 2014 was 10 points higher than any other season in the NFL. He completed 64% of his passes, 8% more than his best season in New York.
If Mark Sanchez can find success under Chip Kelly, who's to say it's not the system?
I'd normally agree with that, but the mere fact that Sanchez was able to not only be serviceable, but to some extent excel, worries me.
Sanchez's rating in 2014 was 10 points higher than any other season in the NFL. He completed 64% of his passes, 8% more than his best season in New York.
If Mark Sanchez can find success under Chip Kelly, who's to say it's not the system?
Yeah, but...
If I were devising the ideal system for Foles, it would be closer to our 2014 than Chip's.
If I were choosing between Foles' and Sanchez's skill sets for Chip's system, I would choose Sanchez.
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Whatever I can't imagine it being worse than this board but...
WSS
Whatever I can't imagine it being worse than this board but...
WSS
sorry steve. didn't know we were talking this board (yikes!).
i thought we were talking the nationally acclaimed rags that are printed in cleveland and akron. god knows MKC and crew are freakin cutting edge.
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I like Foles too.
What are "the issues" with Hundley? I only saw him play a couple of games, and I saw a strong guy, good arm, and mobility. I'm not saying he's the savior, I just want to know if he's a risky pick.
I like Foles too.
What are "the issues" with Hundley? I only saw him play a couple of games, and I saw a strong guy, good arm, and mobility. I'm not saying he's the savior, I just want to know if he's a risky pick.
Poor pocket presence, operates primarily out of shotgun, not asked to read defenses, quick to run under duress, questionable decision making.
Reminds me of Jason Campbell. Campbell hovered on the edge of a first round grade, was considered to have the talents of the top quarterbacks ahead of him, but there were questions about his decision making and mental makeup.
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@douche-nozzle said:
It doesn't work that way.
The difference is that the Seahawks were not dysfunctional from top to bottom when Carroll took over.
There will never be a quick-fix for the Browns, and as long as the fans and media keep demanding it, and management of the Browns keep trying it, they will remain dysfunctional. They need to stop trying to fix it now and develop a 3-5 year approach by letting a veteran QB "manage the game" while they build the nucleus for 3 years and then draft a stud QB to guide that nucleus. But first......before anything else, they need to get some solid people in management and on the sidelines; tough as that may be, that's where it has to start.
I disagree. The Browns can fix the culture quickly. I suggest they hire someone as a consultant during the offseason to set the cultural norms and clearly divide roles & responsibilities. If all three (Haslam, Petine, and Farmer) agree and stick by these rules, the dysfunction will quickly become a thing of the past. They also need to reverse the bad PR of the past month. This should be done by distancing themselves as quickly as possible from the players and stories. That means Farmer doesn't jump all over JM's rehab (as he did) but just says I'm glad he made the decision; but his comeback trail is long and up to him. Meanwhile, we' re moving forward with players that want to play like Browns.
I also disagree with a 3-5 year plan. We know that doesn't work in the NFL. 10 draft selections and 4 to 6 FA signings can combine with what we've got to get us through another competitive year with playoff intentions. That's where the rubber meets the road.
I disagree with re-signing Skrine as our d-secondary is a strength and we need the money elsewhere. We need 3 FA signings at WR. One should be a marquee player, one should be Miles, and one should be Cecile Shorts. Add another two somewhere in the draft and a few non-drafted players. We need someone at QB (FA) to start the season (not depend on JM). This person, plus a draft pick, plus Shaw, plus JM, plus an undrafted player or two gives us 6 QB options going into camp.
Focus the rest of the draft and FA on key improvements to the lines and linebackers. I like the strategy of one OL and one DL in the first round. I would duplicate this in round 4&5 with linemen that have the size and ability to be trained/improved.
Just think of how much can be changed with 6 FA's. 10 picks, and 2 undrafted players. That's 1/3 of the team.
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And then in two-three years, we get to cut Thomas, Mack, Haden, our "marquee" WR, and all of our other large contracts because we have no cap space.
Teams don't win through giant Free Agent signings. Just ask Denver.
A smart FA plan coupled with strong drafting is how to build a winner.
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One of the drawbacks on a three man scramble for quarterback is that we have done it before and never to vary great success. Last year we had three. According to the competition and those in charge of it Brandon Weeden came out on top, followed closely by Jason Campbell with Brian Hoyer a distant third. How did that work out? Now remember I think a strong team can carry a mediocre quarterback and other things can muddy waters.
How do you avoid that snafu even if you can?
WSS
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@douche-nozzle said:
It doesn't work that way.
The difference is that the Seahawks were not dysfunctional from top to bottom when Carroll took over.
There will never be a quick-fix for the Browns, and as long as the fans and media keep demanding it, and management of the Browns keep trying it, they will remain dysfunctional. They need to stop trying to fix it now and develop a 3-5 year approach by letting a veteran QB "manage the game" while they build the nucleus for 3 years and then draft a stud QB to guide that nucleus. But first......before anything else, they need to get some solid people in management and on the sidelines; tough as that may be, that's where it has to start.
I disagree. The Browns can fix the culture quickly. I suggest they hire someone as a consultant during the offseason to set the cultural norms and clearly divide roles & responsibilities. If all three (Haslam, Petine, and Farmer) agree and stick by these rules, the dysfunction will quickly become a thing of the past. They also need to reverse the bad PR of the past month. This should be done by distancing themselves as quickly as possible from the players and stories. That means Farmer doesn't jump all over JM's rehab (as he did) but just says I'm glad he made the decision; but his comeback trail is long and up to him. Meanwhile, we' re moving forward with players that want to play like Browns.
I also disagree with a 3-5 year plan. We know that doesn't work in the NFL. 10 draft selections and 4 to 6 FA signings can combine with what we've got to get us through another competitive year with playoff intentions. That's where the rubber meets the road.
I disagree with re-signing Skrine as our d-secondary is a strength and we need the money elsewhere. We need 3 FA signings at WR. One should be a marquee player, one should be Miles, and one should be Cecile Shorts. Add another two somewhere in the draft and a few non-drafted players. We need someone at QB (FA) to start the season (not depend on JM). This person, plus a draft pick, plus Shaw, plus JM, plus an undrafted player or two gives us 6 QB options going into camp.
Focus the rest of the draft and FA on key improvements to the lines and linebackers. I like the strategy of one OL and one DL in the first round. I would duplicate this in round 4&5 with linemen that have the size and ability to be trained/improved.
Just think of how much can be changed with 6 FA's. 10 picks, and 2 undrafted players. That's 1/3 of the team.
- I suggest they hire someone as a consultant during the offseason to set the cultural norms and clearly divide roles & responsibilities.
- They also need to reverse the bad PR of the past month.
- I disagree with re-signing Skrine as our d-secondary is a strength and we need the money elsewhere.
- We need 3 FA signings at WR. One should be a marquee player
- 6 QB options going into camp.
A true hodgepodge of an Rx...
1. I hate consultants... that said I am available for $1000/ day, three-day minimum plus expenses. Call me, Jimmy.
But I have yet to see solid evidence of dysfunction. Responsibilities have been divided. But it is a good thing that folks are not in silos... communicating across reporting lines is not nevessarily a bad thing, be it by voice, e-mail or even text.
2. Fuck PR. Ultimately only on-field performance changes perception. In the mean time, just get the draft right.
3. Yes, the 2ndary was a strength. Here's the thing... Skrine was a key part of making it so.
4. Three FAs at WR alone? As mentioned already... your plan is too FA dependent.
5. Six QB options in Camp? That would have to be a record...
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