Is Haden Washed Up?
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Marshall and Cooper are going to be the two top recievers this year? Not likely. As far as some of the other comments if Haden still has rust in week three of the season there is a problem.
We can throw Julio Jones in with 'em if you like, but yes, in my opinion those are all all-pro by the end of the year.
We can throw Julio Jones in with 'em if you like, but yes, in my opinion those are all all-pro by the end of the year.
Right now Marshall is 10th, Cooper is 8th. Top two are Julio Jones and Antonio Brown.
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If the opposing team's QB has 5 seconds to throw the ball...the problem isn't your CB, it's the lack of a pass rush.
Sorry rational thinking is not allowed here.
Sorry rational thinking is not allowed here.
Says the old fart
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We can throw Julio Jones in with 'em if you like, but yes, in my opinion those are all all-pro by the end of the year.
Right now Marshall is 10th, Cooper is 8th. Top two are Julio Jones and Antonio Brown.
Cut him some slack. Marshall and Cooper looked All Pro against the Browns.Right now Marshall is 10th, Cooper is 8th. Top two are Julio Jones and Antonio Brown.
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Cut him some slack. Marshall and Cooper looked All Pro against the Browns.
Ha, must be the case. I try to watch as much football as possible. I guess some of these guys only watch the Browns.
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Because he's supposed to be an All Pro WR...and that's his job.
"No corner could cover a WR for more than four-five seconds" is a cop out. If that's what the defense calls for and Haden can't do it, then who's fault is it? Is it the GM's fault for not supplying talent to run the scheme? Is it the coach's fault for not adapting the scheme to fit his players?
If the opposing team's QB has 5 seconds to throw the ball...the problem isn't your CB, it's the lack of a pass rush.
If the opposing team's QB has 5 seconds to throw the ball...the problem isn't your CB, it's the lack of a pass rush.
I agree.
But if you fail to do your job, you shouldn't be doing it...not passing the buck.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Early Sunday Joe was one of a couple DBs that appeared to have cleat issues... Benji did on Offense as well. No excuse, but you ought to be able to get the cleats right on your home field.
I also recall Joe's starts being slow, but if we sit him all pre-season that is on us.
I've no doubt that Joe has gotten more targets early than last year. Tramon vs. Buster says it all... and once teams see others having success in Joe's area... it's like blood in the water.
As for the cavalcade of great WRs.... He's great, but I have a feeling AB's rank is fixin' to drop.
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If the opposing team's QB has 5 seconds to throw the ball...the problem isn't your CB, it's the lack of a pass rush.
I agree.
But if you fail to do your job, you shouldn't be doing it...not passing the buck.
I agree.
But if you fail to do your job, you shouldn't be doing it...not passing the buck.
Haden takes full accountability for Cooper having the game he did. Which is more than mature and shows great leadership.
My first love is DB. I'll tell you now, I never had more fun in a game then when my dline got shit done.
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PFF accounts for a lack of pass rush and Haden still graded terribly. Furthermore, the lack of pass rush had little effect on the performance of the defensive backfield last year.
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Why is it that Haden can lock-up AJ Green - a tall, quality WR - but get abused by Amari Cooper and Brandon Marshall? Haden comes to play against Green; he's always jacked-up and considers it a true mano-a-mano test of who's best. If Haden can apply that hunger to "be the best" week in and week out, instead of just doing so against Green, then it's problem solved.
Why is it that Haden can lock-up AJ Green - a tall, quality WR - but get abused by Amari Cooper and Brandon Marshall? Haden comes to play against Green; he's always jacked-up and considers it a true mano-a-mano test of who's best. If Haden can apply that hunger to "be the best" week in and week out, instead of just doing so against Green, then it's problem solved.
College rivalry.
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I had this two years ago. Haden has been overrated for two-plus years now, and I was told I was crazy even with plenty of ammo to back it up.
Homers gonna homer... Lazy national media gonna lazy.
"Lockdown" Joe Haden gonna get bbq'ed by Cecil Shorts to lose the game
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If we are talking rusty your boy Cam Heyward had 0 (zero) QB pressures on 30 pass rushes last week. According to PFF.
What was the score of that game? Remind me. How many times did kaep go down? Then you can check how many tackles shazier had that game. If he's occupying lineman and freeing up the linebackers he's doing fine. Criticizing Heyward is hilarious. He's one of the top 34 ends in the nfl.
What was the score of that game? Remind me. How many times did kaep go down? Then you can check how many tackles shazier had that game. If he's occupying lineman and freeing up the linebackers he's doing fine. Criticizing Heyward is hilarious. He's one of the top 34 ends in the nfl.
Expect last week you played the Rams.... Two weeks ago you played kaep.....
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If Joe Haden was playing well life would be great in our backfield, with Tramon and a healthy K'waun.
I hope the "slow start defense" is accurate, but I have my doubts. He shouldn't have gotten a pass on pre-season play.
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I dont know that Haden always starts slow.....but he definitely did last season. Was off for the first 3 games(same as this year), then played lights out for the balance.....and then Pro-Bowl....a quick look back and found these exact "Haden Sucks" type of threads after games 1 & 3 last season.....
You guys are turble....attacking one of our best....immediately.....then, probably, licking his balls a few games later.....
Here's one from Sept 22(same week last year, btw) called Haden Got smoked again....by walter , of course....
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30353&hl=haden
Here's one called "Haden LOL".....by Walter(again)....this is from 10-5....
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30474&hl=haden
And on 10-6(one day later)....here's one suddenly crying cause he's hurt...(Walter again....the next day....sheez)
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30494&hl=haden
And then, of course, he's the one announcing he's in the ProBowl(again)....
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31440&hl=haden
And, ironically, here's one complaining that he wasnt selected All Pro....
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31550&hl=haden
So, in summary.....we've went down this same road just last season.....whining and bitching about one of our very best after just a few games.....seriously......smh....
Im nowhere near ready to claim he's "washed up"....holy cow....dude is in the prime of his career.... Is he the best in the league???....I doubt it....but he's better than most and Im glad he's on our team......if we attack a guy like Haden for few bad games, then we dont deserve good players....
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I dont know that Haden always starts slow.....but he definitely did last season. Was off for the first 3 games(same as this year), then played lights out for the balance.....and then Pro-Bowl....a quick look back and found these exact "Haden Sucks" type of threads after games 1 & 3 last season.....
You guys are turble....attacking one of our best....immediately.....then, probably, licking his balls a few games later.....
Here's one from Sept 22(same week last year, btw) called Haden Got smoked again....by walter , of course....
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30353&hl=haden
Here's one called "Haden LOL".....by Walter(again)....this is from 10-5....
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30474&hl=haden
And on 10-6(one day later)....here's one suddenly crying cause he's hurt...(Walter again....the next day....sheez)
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30494&hl=haden
And then, of course, he's the one announcing he's in the ProBowl(again)....
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31440&hl=haden
And, ironically, here's one complaining that he wasnt selected All Pro....
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31550&hl=haden
So, in summary.....we've went down this same road just last season.....whining and bitching about one of our very best after just a few games.....seriously......smh....
Im nowhere near ready to claim he's "washed up"....holy cow....dude is in the prime of his career.... Is he the best in the league???....I doubt it....but he's better than most and Im glad he's on our team......if we attack a guy like Haden for few bad games, then we dont deserve good players....
I dont know that Haden always starts slow.....but he definitely did last season. Was off for the first 3 games(same as this year), then played lights out for the balance.....and then Pro-Bowl....a quick look back and found these exact "Haden Sucks" type of threads after games 1 & 3 last season.....
You guys are turble....attacking one of our best....immediately.....then, probably, licking his balls a few games later.....
Here's one from Sept 22(same week last year, btw) called Haden Got smoked again....by walter , of course....
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30353&hl=haden
Here's one called "Haden LOL".....by Walter(again)....this is from 10-5....
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30474&hl=haden
And on 10-6(one day later)....here's one suddenly crying cause he's hurt...(Walter again....the next day....sheez)
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30494&hl=haden
And then, of course, he's the one announcing he's in the ProBowl(again)....
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31440&hl=haden
And, ironically, here's one complaining that he wasnt selected All Pro....
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31550&hl=haden
So, in summary.....we've went down this same road just last season.....whining and bitching about one of our very best after just a few games.....seriously......smh....
Im nowhere near ready to claim he's "washed up"....holy cow....dude is in the prime of his career.... Is he the best in the league???....I doubt it....but he's better than most and Im glad he's on our team......if we attack a guy like Haden for few bad games, then we dont deserve good players....
If we glorify players based on what they've done rather Han what they're doing, we don't deserve to win.
If he turns it around, hey I'm psyched. But, until he does, I have a right to question his play. Same with any of the other 52 players we have.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Washed up would imply lacking skills and no longer useful. Haden would be picked up by any other NFL team and excel.
Washed up ? GTFOHWTBS !
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Washed up would imply lacking skills and no longer useful. Haden would be picked up by any other NFL team and excel.
Washed up ? GTFOHWTBS !
Washed up would imply lacking skills and no longer useful. Haden would be picked up by any other NFL team and excel.
Washed up ? GTFOHWTBS !
You're right, he's a good player and can play in the NFL, but he hasn't lived up to his billing as an "elite" cornerback. "Shutdown" or "lockdown" never, save a game or two against AJ Green that his name is still living off to this day (don't forget that one game he shut down Calvin Johnson on one knee!).
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I dont know that Haden always starts slow.....but he definitely did last season. Was off for the first 3 games(same as this year), then played lights out for the balance.....and then Pro-Bowl....a quick look back and found these exact "Haden Sucks" type of threads after games 1 & 3 last season.....
You guys are turble....attacking one of our best....immediately.....then, probably, licking his balls a few games later.....
Here's one from Sept 22(same week last year, btw) called Haden Got smoked again....by walter , of course....
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30353&hl=haden
Here's one called "Haden LOL".....by Walter(again)....this is from 10-5....
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30474&hl=haden
And on 10-6(one day later)....here's one suddenly crying cause he's hurt...(Walter again....the next day....sheez)
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30494&hl=haden
And then, of course, he's the one announcing he's in the ProBowl(again)....
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31440&hl=haden
And, ironically, here's one complaining that he wasnt selected All Pro....
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31550&hl=haden
So, in summary.....we've went down this same road just last season.....whining and bitching about one of our very best after just a few games.....seriously......smh....
Im nowhere near ready to claim he's "washed up"....holy cow....dude is in the prime of his career.... Is he the best in the league???....I doubt it....but he's better than most and Im glad he's on our team......if we attack a guy like Haden for few bad games, then we dont deserve good players....
If we glorify players based on what they've done rather Han what they're doing, we don't deserve to win.
If he turns it around, hey I'm psyched. But, until he does, I have a right to question his play. Same with any of the other 52 players we have.
If we glorify players based on what they've done rather Han what they're doing, we don't deserve to win.
If he turns it around, hey I'm psyched. But, until he does, I have a right to question his play. Same with any of the other 52 players we have.
Glorify vs support...there is a difference...
And, sure, you can question anyone anytime....thats your right....Im just showing that we've went down this same road last year and all the whiners were wrong then....
I just think its kind of fast for someone who's produced the whole time he's been here....lots of other players who aren't even close to Haden in production, who are more deserving of this, I guess....
So, as things go here, the plan will be to go after all players who have a bad game or 2.....way to support your team man!!!!
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If we glorify players based on what they've done rather Han what they're doing, we don't deserve to win.
If he turns it around, hey I'm psyched. But, until he does, I have a right to question his play. Same with any of the other 52 players we have.
Glorify vs support...there is a difference...
And, sure, you can question anyone anytime....thats your right....Im just showing that we've went down this same road last year and all the whiners were wrong then....
I just think its kind of fast for someone who's produced the whole time he's been here....lots of other players who aren't even close to Haden in production, who are more deserving of this, I guess....
So, as things go here, the plan will be to go after all players who have a bad game or 2.....way to support your team man!!!!
Glorify vs support...there is a difference...
And, sure, you can question anyone anytime....thats your right....Im just showing that we've went down this same road last year and all the whiners were wrong then....
I just think its kind of fast for someone who's produced the whole time he's been here....lots of other players who aren't even close to Haden in production, who are more deserving of this, I guess....
So, as things go here, the plan will be to go after all players who have a bad game or 2.....way to support your team man!!!!
What exactly did you show, other than Haden was inconsistent last year (and he was pretty bad the year before)?
I don't see what you're talking about.
Has nothing to do with "supporting" the Browns, we're trying to objectively look at a football team. Just because you don't choose to do that, doesn't mean other people aren't allowed to enjoy their team in that way.
Joe Haden is and has been overrated for awhile.
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Glorify vs support...there is a difference...
And, sure, you can question anyone anytime....thats your right....Im just showing that we've went down this same road last year and all the whiners were wrong then....
I just think its kind of fast for someone who's produced the whole time he's been here....lots of other players who aren't even close to Haden in production, who are more deserving of this, I guess....
So, as things go here, the plan will be to go after all players who have a bad game or 2.....way to support your team man!!!!
What exactly did you show, other than Haden was inconsistent last year (and he was pretty bad the year before)?
I don't see what you're talking about.
Has nothing to do with "supporting" the Browns, we're trying to objectively look at a football team. Just because you don't choose to do that, doesn't mean other people aren't allowed to enjoy their team in that way.
Joe Haden is and has been overrated for awhile.
What exactly did you show, other than Haden was inconsistent last year (and he was pretty bad the year before)?
I don't see what you're talking about.
Has nothing to do with "supporting" the Browns, we're trying to objectively look at a football team. Just because you don't choose to do that, doesn't mean other people aren't allowed to enjoy their team in that way.
Joe Haden is and has been overrated for awhile.
I showed that he was bad the first 3 games last year.....and showed people bitched and moaned then.....and I showed he then played great and made the Pro Bowl...and I showed the people all changed their tune....(so, that is what I was talking about)
I dont know you from Adam, but Im usually fairly objective....and try to be a more pragmatic voice when evaluating players....which means not too far either way....like completely freaking out when someone plays a few bad games....I dont see how knee jerk reactions are "enjoyable" and they definitely dont = objective....though they are very common here....
Does overrated = washed up....?.....Cause I said he was a good player(and so did you....2 posts back)....so, how is it being objective to say a good player is washed up or suddenly turned to crap, based only on a few games....?
And I definitely didnt say y'all cant enjoy tearing players down....have at it bub....there are 20 neg head thread going right now and I aint stopping any of them....just remember I have an equal right to post my opinions too.....even if they dont meet yours....
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If we glorify players based on what they've done rather Han what they're doing, we don't deserve to win.
If he turns it around, hey I'm psyched. But, until he does, I have a right to question his play. Same with any of the other 52 players we have.
Glorify vs support...there is a difference...
And, sure, you can question anyone anytime....thats your right....Im just showing that we've went down this same road last year and all the whiners were wrong then....
I just think its kind of fast for someone who's produced the whole time he's been here....lots of other players who aren't even close to Haden in production, who are more deserving of this, I guess....
So, as things go here, the plan will be to go after all players who have a bad game or 2.....way to support your team man!!!!
Glorify vs support...there is a difference...
And, sure, you can question anyone anytime....thats your right....Im just showing that we've went down this same road last year and all the whiners were wrong then....
I just think its kind of fast for someone who's produced the whole time he's been here....lots of other players who aren't even close to Haden in production, who are more deserving of this, I guess....
So, as things go here, the plan will be to go after all players who have a bad game or 2.....way to support your team man!!!!
Support != relentless adoration.
I can support Haden and still call him out when he's garbage. I can support a family member and still tell him he's an insufferable douchebag failure. If I didn't "support" him, I wouldn't give a fuck how good or bad he was. I couldn't tell you the exact production of Xavier Rhodes compared to last year, because I don't support Minnesota.
The "plan" is to discuss the Browns and how they are playing - good or bad. Haden, right now, is bad. Kruger, right now is bad. The only good I'm seeing, right now, is Shelton and Starks, because they are both being asked to play 2-gap while our inside linebackers aren't doing shit to fill, leaving Shelton and Starks to both occupy AND attempt to make a play at the line.
Haden's troubles can be directly attributed to this, yes. However, he looked absolutely outmatched on Sunday regardless of the pass rush, which is making me question how "elite" he is. A good corner, sure. Elite, I'm not positive.
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