How To Get A Qb
-
Here is my point......looking at the Walter football draft database......in the early versions of Mock drafts, NO ONE had Lynch and Goff up near the top.....most didn't even have them in the first round. You saw Hackenberg, Cook, even Cardale....but not these guys.
The fact is.....Hackenberg, Cook, Cardale could in fact turn out to as good or better pro QBs as Lynch/Goff.
And my further point is.....if in fact the likes of Lynch/Goff/Wentz are who we thought they were originally......then I would prefer taking a Bosa with #2....and Thomas/Doctson with #32......and getting Hackenber/Cook...even Cardale in round 3.
I'd rather get Russell Wilson in round 3 than Brandon Weeden in round 1.
Drafting QBs is such an inexact science......but I see the DE/WR a bit of a more sure thing. (though nothing but Nicollette Sheridan is that)
Here is my point......looking at the Walter football draft database......in the early versions of Mock drafts, NO ONE had Lynch and Goff up near the top.....most didn't even have them in the first round. You saw Hackenberg, Cook, even Cardale....but not these guys.
The fact is.....Hackenberg, Cook, Cardale could in fact turn out to as good or better pro QBs as Lynch/Goff.
And my further point is.....if in fact the likes of Lynch/Goff/Wentz are who we thought they were originally......then I would prefer taking a Bosa with #2....and Thomas/Doctson with #32......and getting Hackenber/Cook...even Cardale in round 3.
I'd rather get Russell Wilson in round 3 than Brandon Weeden in round 1.
Drafting QBs is such an inexact science......but I see the DE/WR a bit of a more sure thing. (though nothing but Nicollette Sheridan is that)
this is a quality post-- we don't know how goff/lynch/wentz will turn out as pros. If anyone says they do they are fos. Neither of these guys are the class of qb prospect(admittedly very few are) where there is some level of certainty that they will be very very good.
I will say I'm a little concerned that his arm and athleticism doesn't jump off the page at me. Because if it *doesn't* jump off the page in college, it's going to be several steps below that(meaning several steps below great) when translated to the nfl.
-
I'd rather get Russell Wilson in round 3 than Brandon Weeden in round 1.
Drafting QBs is such an inexact science......but I see the DE/WR a bit of a more sure thing. (though nothing but Nicollette Sheridan is that)
I guess, conversely....I would rather have taken Brandon Weeden in round 3 than in round 1.
Note: we are not nearly as forlorn about the Browns having taken Charlie Frye and Colt McCoy in the third round. We knew these were risks...and that the investment in them was not as dear as the investment of a 1st round pick.
So, we don't get Nicolette Sheridan in round 1, we take Daphne Zuniga. Not as hot, but cute nevertheless......more a "take home to Mom" kind of girl.
Frye and McCoy were more "take home to Mom" kind of QBs.
I mean....isn't it fair to say that we got more production out of our 3rd round pick than our 1st round picks?
-
Here is the deal on that QB production.....using the PFR CA....which measures a players career production. These are these guys total career numbers, including with other team:
Couch: 30
Wynn: 2
Luke McC.: 7
Frye: 8
Quinn: 2
McCoy: 12
Weeden: 12
Johnny: 1
Just to give comparison, here are the numbers of some decidedly mediocre or below QBs:
Matt Cassell 45
Kyle Orton 41
Vince Young 33
Josh Freeman 38
Mark Sanchez 33
Tim Tebow 12
Sam Bradford 25
And compare to these guys: youngest to oldest:
Luck: 42
Wilson : 46
Newton 56
Dalton 43
Kaepernick 34
Rodgers 107
Rivers 114
Roeth. 99
Palmer 84
Brees 141
Brady 146
Peyton 176
-
Im on board with the keep Johnny and surround him with better weapons crowd. Hes been a headache, but I think he can play on the field. We can draft another QB in the third round. Go Bosa or Jack at 2, take Henry or Elliot in the second.
Im on board with the keep Johnny and surround him with better weapons crowd. Hes been a headache, but I think he can play on the field. We can draft another QB in the third round. Go Bosa or Jack at 2, take Henry or Elliot in the second.
And the addition of Josh Gordon with an entire training camp and a quarterback that he likes to get in sync with? Fuggetabouttit.
WSS
-
sounds like Goffs arm is on par with Hoyers if we're going with "55 yard'ish". Not saying that disqualifies Goff, but aren't people here always yelling about arm strength arm strength?
Gip,
I have seen enough of your arguments to know you've dug your heels in now... but do you realize in all the time you've spent defending your position, you could have watched every cutdown from Goff's Senior year and formed your own opinion rather than mistakenly regurgitated others' opinions?
sounds like Goffs arm is on par with Hoyers if we're going with "55 yard'ish". Not saying that disqualifies Goff, but aren't people here always yelling about arm strength arm strength?
Except that Hoyer's arm was 45-ish. McCown's is 55-ish and no one seemed to be complaining. Since the 55 you quoted was my estimate, now it has some context.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
The Titans are open to trading their number 1 pick. No wonder they pick first every year. If Goff goes number 1 in a trade then Cleveland should go Bosa and quarterback at 32. Goff just isn't Aaron Rodgers or Andrew Luck! He might be more Blane Gabbert or Christian Ponder.
I don't think any team is dumb enough to trade up for any of these QBs. We shall see after the Combine.
DAMN THE TORPEDOES! FULL SPEED AHEAD! -
If Goff goes #1 overall to somebody else than I think it would be stupid to not take Joey Bosa. But stupid is as stupid does and stupid might as well be the byline under the Browns header. We'll probably panic and take Paxton Lynch #2.
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
The Titans are open to trading their number 1 pick. No wonder they pick first every year. If Goff goes number 1 in a trade then Cleveland should go Bosa and quarterback at 32. Goff just isn't Aaron Rodgers or Andrew Luck! He might be more Blane Gabbert or Christian Ponder.
I don't think any team is dumb enough to trade up for any of these QBs. We shall see after the Combine.
The Titans are open to trading their number 1 pick. No wonder they pick first every year. If Goff goes number 1 in a trade then Cleveland should go Bosa and quarterback at 32. Goff just isn't Aaron Rodgers or Andrew Luck! He might be more Blane Gabbert or Christian Ponder.
I don't think any team is dumb enough to trade up for any of these QBs. We shall see after the Combine.
I heard that possibility on Channel eight today.
WSS
-
Gip,
I have seen enough of your arguments to know you've dug your heels in now... but do you realize in all the time you've spent defending your position, you could have watched every cutdown from Goff's Senior year and formed your own opinion rather than mistakenly regurgitated others' opinions?
sounds like Goffs arm is on par with Hoyers if we're going with "55 yard'ish". Not saying that disqualifies Goff, but aren't people here always yelling about arm strength arm strength?
Except that Hoyer's arm was 45-ish. McCown's is 55-ish and no one seemed to be complaining. Since the 55 you quoted was my estimate, now it has some context.
Gip,
I have seen enough of your arguments to know you've dug your heels in now... but do you realize in all the time you've spent defending your position, you could have watched every cutdown from Goff's Senior year and formed your own opinion rather than mistakenly regurgitated others' opinions?
Perhaps.....but I do not have the expertise to evaluate these guys like the guys whose opinions I have quoted do.
I mean, Dirty Harry said that a man's got to know his limitations.....and I know mine. I am not an expert quarterback talent evaluator. Certainly not like Bill Polian.
-
The Titans are open to trading their number 1 pick. No wonder they pick first every year. If Goff goes number 1 in a trade then Cleveland should go Bosa and quarterback at 32. Goff just isn't Aaron Rodgers or Andrew Luck! He might be more Blane Gabbert or Christian Ponder.
I don't think any team is dumb enough to trade up for any of these QBs. We shall see after the Combine.
The Titans are open to trading their number 1 pick. No wonder they pick first every year. If Goff goes number 1 in a trade then Cleveland should go Bosa and quarterback at 32. Goff just isn't Aaron Rodgers or Andrew Luck! He might be more Blane Gabbert or Christian Ponder.
I don't think any team is dumb enough to trade up for any of these QBs. We shall see after the Combine.
Be ready for the shitstorm you are going to get for having an opinion like that
err.....well....like mine.
-
Greg Cosell says Goff is a better prospect than Winston (remember that I said it first though right)
I like Cosell a lot more than some of the other losers - although the other losers also say that Goff is the best, so it's virtually unanimous.
-
Greg Cosell says Goff is a better prospect than Winston (remember that I said it first though right)
I like Cosell a lot more than some of the other losers - although the other losers also say that Goff is the best, so it's virtually unanimous.
Greg Cosell says Goff is a better prospect than Winston (remember that I said it first though right)
I like Cosell a lot more than some of the other losers - although the other losers also say that Goff is the best, so it's virtually unanimous.
Greg Cosell has as much credibility as Howard Cosell reporting on the assasination of the President of San Marcos.
-
Greg Cosell says Goff is a better prospect than Winston (remember that I said it first though right)
I like Cosell a lot more than some of the other losers - although the other losers also say that Goff is the best, so it's virtually unanimous.
Greg Cosell has as much credibility as Howard Cosell reporting on the assasination of the President of San Marcos.
Greg Cosell has as much credibility as Howard Cosell reporting on the assasination of the President of San Marcos.
Hey...he's pretty good. He does a nice job breaking down film compared to the other NFL analyst schleps.
But then again it's not just him saying it
We don't really know the real professional opinions, but maybe the Browns will commission another $100,000 study
-
Greg Cosell has as much credibility as Howard Cosell reporting on the assasination of the President of San Marcos.
Hey...he's pretty good. He does a nice job breaking down film compared to the other NFL analyst schleps.
But then again it's not just him saying it
We don't really know the real professional opinions, but maybe the Browns will commission another $100,000 study
Hey...he's pretty good. He does a nice job breaking down film compared to the other NFL analyst schleps.
But then again it's not just him saying it
We don't really know the real professional opinions, but maybe the Browns will commission another $100,000 study
Well, BB8, we know you have a man crush on Goff. So any and every thing out there in the world that has some positivity toward him, you are going to reference here.
So, don't think unkind of us if we take it all with a grain of salt.
-
Couple of points tour - on Goff's leadership, the team went from 1-11 before he joined, to 8-5 this year. Can't be certain, but I'm guessing there's at least decent leadership there.
On Prescott, I've seen nothing to endear me to him.
Maybe I'm missing something? I'm watching the LSU game right now...
Agree on Goff's leadership. Not a big question, but I've nothing but inferences that it's "OK". But even that leaves a great deal of range as to how much of an asset it is. From lightweight like Hoyer/Dalton to infectious like Winston to black-hole gravitas of Brady/Brees/Manning.
Prescott... he's a kid I've watched grow over three years, but you don't have to go back that far, just keep moving forward.
LSU was early 2015. IIRC you also should be noticing how mechanical he looks... very stiff in the pocket. This was new in 2016 and it actually regressed him some early in the season. As the year progresses you'll see this soften a little... stiff becomes "calm"... and his performance improve. Some of this is due to MSU Offense's growth, but a lot of it was Dak IMO... and a lot of Dak's growth looked to be between the ears.
I just have a feeling he will continue to grow at the next level making him a good value pick.
Agree on Goff's leadership. Not a big question, but I've nothing but inferences that it's "OK". But even that leaves a great deal of range as to how much of an asset it is. From lightweight like Hoyer/Dalton to infectious like Winston to black-hole gravitas of Brady/Brees/Manning.
Prescott... he's a kid I've watched grow over three years, but you don't have to go back that far, just keep moving forward.
LSU was early 2015. IIRC you also should be noticing how mechanical he looks... very stiff in the pocket. This was new in 2016 and it actually regressed him some early in the season. As the year progresses you'll see this soften a little... stiff becomes "calm"... and his performance improve. Some of this is due to MSU Offense's growth, but a lot of it was Dak IMO... and a lot of Dak's growth looked to be between the ears.
I just have a feeling he will continue to grow at the next level making him a good value pick.
OK, I'm watching the (bowl?) game against NC State. Some improvements, but I'm still seeing the same weird ass jumping mechanics when throwing on the run, still seeing poor decision making (tucking and running in to the back of an OL when he should throw the ball away), not checking out of bad matchups. He made some nice throws, including one intermediate out to the near sideline that was perfectly in stride, but most seemed to me to be a function of play design.
He also seems to lack any 'zip' on intermediate routes and in both games I'm yet to see him attempt a pass of more than maybe 30 yards, unless I missed it. Accuracy is *ok* but not great. He's also small-ish, like a Bridgewater frame, but is still a run-centric QB and so there's inevitable question marks about his long term durability. Like a RB who's had a lot of carries in college, a QB who's taken a lot of hits will have question marks.
Overall, I would not expect us to draft him, based on his style of play not fitting with Hue Jackson's pocket passer mantra, but you could see him maybe going to SF or somewhere as a solid project/backup. A good spot for him might even be Carolina.
-
If Goff goes #1 overall to somebody else than I think it would be stupid to not take Joey Bosa. But stupid is as stupid does and stupid might as well be the byline under the Browns header. We'll probably panic and take Paxton Lynch #2.
If Goff goes #1 overall to somebody else than I think it would be stupid to not take Joey Bosa. But stupid is as stupid does and stupid might as well be the byline under the Browns header. We'll probably panic and take Paxton Lynch #2.
If Goff DOES go number one, then I tend to agree with you. Like I've mentioned in other posts, the only problem I can see with Bosa is how he's better suited to a 4-3 DE, and his transition to OLB is unknown. That being said, I'm not as familiar with Bosa as other posters because I don't watch a great deal of OSU football. If it's determined that the kid CAN make the transition, I don't see how we couldn't take the guy. The only thing I could see would be a trade down, and those are much easier said than done. I could see a 4-3 team falling in love with him and PERHAPS offering us a nice package. I would only do the trade if we could stay in the top third of the first round. I'm not going into the 20's...hell no. If we somehow trade back...say...with Jacksonville (I seriously doubt it), I think we could take Jalen Ramsey. By the time the combine comes around, Ramsey's stock will be sky high. He's going to go bananas on the testing drills.
-
Agree on Goff's leadership. Not a big question, but I've nothing but inferences that it's "OK". But even that leaves a great deal of range as to how much of an asset it is. From lightweight like Hoyer/Dalton to infectious like Winston to black-hole gravitas of Brady/Brees/Manning.
Prescott... he's a kid I've watched grow over three years, but you don't have to go back that far, just keep moving forward.
LSU was early 2015. IIRC you also should be noticing how mechanical he looks... very stiff in the pocket. This was new in 2016 and it actually regressed him some early in the season. As the year progresses you'll see this soften a little... stiff becomes "calm"... and his performance improve. Some of this is due to MSU Offense's growth, but a lot of it was Dak IMO... and a lot of Dak's growth looked to be between the ears.
I just have a feeling he will continue to grow at the next level making him a good value pick.
OK, I'm watching the (bowl?) game against NC State. Some improvements, but I'm still seeing the same weird ass jumping mechanics when throwing on the run, still seeing poor decision making (tucking and running in to the back of an OL when he should throw the ball away), not checking out of bad matchups. He made some nice throws, including one intermediate out to the near sideline that was perfectly in stride, but most seemed to me to be a function of play design.
He also seems to lack any 'zip' on intermediate routes and in both games I'm yet to see him attempt a pass of more than maybe 30 yards, unless I missed it. Accuracy is *ok* but not great. He's also small-ish, like a Bridgewater frame, but is still a run-centric QB and so there's inevitable question marks about his long term durability. Like a RB who's had a lot of carries in college, a QB who's taken a lot of hits will have question marks.
Overall, I would not expect us to draft him, based on his style of play not fitting with Hue Jackson's pocket passer mantra, but you could see him maybe going to SF or somewhere as a solid project/backup. A good spot for him might even be Carolina.
OK, I'm watching the (bowl?) game against NC State. Some improvements, but I'm still seeing the same weird ass jumping mechanics when throwing on the run, still seeing poor decision making (tucking and running in to the back of an OL when he should throw the ball away), not checking out of bad matchups. He made some nice throws, including one intermediate out to the near sideline that was perfectly in stride, but most seemed to me to be a function of play design.
He also seems to lack any 'zip' on intermediate routes and in both games I'm yet to see him attempt a pass of more than maybe 30 yards, unless I missed it. Accuracy is *ok* but not great. He's also small-ish, like a Bridgewater frame, but is still a run-centric QB and so there's inevitable question marks about his long term durability. Like a RB who's had a lot of carries in college, a QB who's taken a lot of hits will have question marks.
Overall, I would not expect us to draft him, based on his style of play not fitting with Hue Jackson's pocket passer mantra, but you could see him maybe going to SF or somewhere as a solid project/backup. A good spot for him might even be Carolina.
Agree... not a Browns's candidate. But if I had a starter that ran and wanted a similar back-up to develop...
Other thoughts:
- Much thicker than Teddy B.
- Trying hard to think of a QB that does not hop as they throw on the run...
- Yes... definitely a running QB that is still trying to transition... there's a reason he's my darkhorse...
-
The Rodgers example first isn't a roll out, but the Brees one is moreso. In the slow-mo, see he throws in stride. Compare with Dak:
I guess my question to you is, what positive attributes do you see in him that make him a dark horse, not just another not-very-good, run-first QB?
-
Not seeing much of any example in the Pro vid... the one roll-out by Brees he's still drifting slightly backwards and throws when that case do tend to be back-foot throws.
With Prescott it's just a feeling of an improvement path he's on continuing. It may be years before he has success. He may never have success. Right now he's simply my highest value sleeper candidate, but I will be checking out more. Dak seems to be getting more Day 2 ratings than even I thought he's get at this point. I initially thought he might be an early Day 3 guy.
Every year I try to find at least one QB prospect down the board whose potential seems to outweigh their ranking...
Last year it was Bryce Petty R4...
2014 was AJ McCarron R5...
2013 was no one...
2012 was Tannehill until he took off, then it was Foles R3.
There are a couple prior, but I did not put in much time or effort pre-2011.
Not a great display of prognostication, but not completely suck-ass either (with a lot of TBD)... at least until you see Foles was taken between Russell Wilson and Kirk Cousins...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Not seeing much of any example in the Pro vid... the one roll-out by Brees he's still drifting slightly backwards and throws when that case do tend to be back-foot throws.
With Prescott it's just a feeling of an improvement path he's on continuing. It may be years before he has success. He may never have success. Right now he's simply my highest value sleeper candidate, but I will be checking out more. Dak seems to be getting more Day 2 ratings than even I thought he's get at this point. I initially thought he might be an early Day 3 guy.
Every year I try to find at least one QB prospect down the board whose potential seems to outweigh their ranking...
Last year it was Bryce Petty R4...
2014 was AJ McCarron R5...
2013 was no one...
2012 was Tannehill until he took off, then it was Foles R3.
There are a couple prior, but I did not put in much time or effort pre-2011.
Not a great display of prognostication, but not completely suck-ass either (with a lot of TBD)... at least until you see Foles was taken between Russell Wilson and Kirk Cousins...
Not seeing much of any example in the Pro vid... the one roll-out by Brees he's still drifting slightly backwards and throws when that case do tend to be back-foot throws.
With Prescott it's just a feeling of an improvement path he's on continuing. It may be years before he has success. He may never have success. Right now he's simply my highest value sleeper candidate, but I will be checking out more. Dak seems to be getting more Day 2 ratings than even I thought he's get at this point. I initially thought he might be an early Day 3 guy.
Every year I try to find at least one QB prospect down the board whose potential seems to outweigh their ranking...
Last year it was Bryce Petty R4...
2014 was AJ McCarron R5...
2013 was no one...
2012 was Tannehill until he took off, then it was Foles R3.
There are a couple prior, but I did not put in much time or effort pre-2011.
Not a great display of prognostication, but not completely suck-ass either (with a lot of TBD)... at least until you see Foles was taken between Russell Wilson and Kirk Cousins...
Not drafting Petty really hurt me.
I'm tentatively looking in on Frohnapfel and Doughty, but haven't watched anything on them yet. Just like what I saw on paper.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login