Not so Fast my Friends
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The way I am reading what the Browns are going to be doing with analytics is that it is going to be another tool in the toolbox and not something they will solely rely upon. I like the idea. I hated to see us blow things up again but we were regressing and it started the previous season and continued until the last season. I am a big believer we need continuity but not continuity just for continuity's sake. Wash, rinse repeat...every 2 years fire HC and GM ...we are doing the same thing over and over and getting the same result but at least this time we are looking in a different direction by using analytics.
Farmer said he was the one who made the call on Manziel. Haslam said he didn't make that call. After the horrible signing of Dwayne Bowe I have no problem believing Farmer did make the call (like he has said).
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VesnaKociper said:
Gipper, here is the deal. Your reasoning is logical. But also, the reasoning of getting a QB first is logical. There is no one guaranteed way to build a championship team. Theisman's Skins had an unbelievable OL, Miami had balance everywhere, Denver and The first ravens was D, The Patriots were mostly unstoppable offense. Cowher did it by coaching up, not making mistakes, and playing hard block and tackle football.
Here is one thing I learned in business and in life; you can't copy success. It just doesn't happen. OJ, Brown, Franco, Payton... all great, all unique.Stabler, Staubach,, Williams, Warner, Brady, et. al....none of them were similar.
Each group of men will find its own personality, its own style, its own way to win. All the bullshit of who we MUST pick first, is just that, bullshit. It's rhetoric.'
The only sure fire way to build a winner is to have players that give their all, that don't make mistakes, that execute, that contribute no matter what. No matter who the Browns draft, without a defined team culture, strategy and focus, it won't matter who they draft. No one or two players is going to turn this shit bag into a winner. This draft is important, but it isn't the most important factor in the Browns becoming a winner.
Totally agree. And not an OL slight in sight
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Every QB that Jeff Fisher has has since Steve McNair has blown. Is it the QBs, or Fisher? Foles did awfully well under Chip Kelly. Maybe Kelly ends up in San Fran.
Foles had a good year before the NFL caught up with Kelly.
He blows. Awful with the Rams. Lost his job to ... whoever.
Fisher doesn't have much to do with a QB sucking.
Z
Zombo said:
Foles had a good year before the NFL caught up with Kelly.
He blows. Awful with the Rams. Lost his job to ... whoever.
Fisher doesn't have much to do with a QB sucking.
Z
Yet, all his QBs do suck.....even ones that were good elsewhere. He has a lot to do with choosing those QBs....who suck.
Fisher will have maybe 2 more years of grace with the Rams move to LA since he is a popular figure there from USC days.
Do you expect him to last after those 2 years? Not on his current path.
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and passing on Bridgewater
Holy fuck.
Bridgewater would not sign here.
Get over this shit already - you're 100% wrong.
Your entire post is predicated upon the assumption that he would sign once drafted. His agent stated quite clearly "Cleveland is not the place he wants to be." Passing on him was, in fact, the right move.
There are of course other busts at the end of the first that year [Marcus Smith, Dee Ford, Jimmie Smith] but there are also hits [Deone Bucannon, Dominique Easley, Jason Verrett, Kelvin Benjamin].. so good players were still available other than He Who Shall Not Be Named.
Holy fuck.
Bridgewater would not sign here.
Get over this shit already - you're 100% wrong.
Your entire post is predicated upon the assumption that he would sign once drafted. His agent stated quite clearly "Cleveland is not the place he wants to be." Passing on him was, in fact, the right move.
There are of course other busts at the end of the first that year [Marcus Smith, Dee Ford, Jimmie Smith] but there are also hits [Deone Bucannon, Dominique Easley, Jason Verrett, Kelvin Benjamin].. so good players were still available other than He Who Shall Not Be Named.
This is as dumb of a post as I have seen lately: If the Browns drafted Bridgewater he would have signed and played here. Simple as that. What was he going to do, sit out a year, not play....and be completely forgotten and fallen down to maybe be a mid round choice? His agent would not have put up with that.
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VesnaKociper said:
Gipper, here is the deal. Your reasoning is logical. But also, the reasoning of getting a QB first is logical. There is no one guaranteed way to build a championship team. Theisman's Skins had an unbelievable OL, Miami had balance everywhere, Denver and The first ravens was D, The Patriots were mostly unstoppable offense. Cowher did it by coaching up, not making mistakes, and playing hard block and tackle football.
Here is one thing I learned in business and in life; you can't copy success. It just doesn't happen. OJ, Brown, Franco, Payton... all great, all unique.Stabler, Staubach,, Williams, Warner, Brady, et. al....none of them were similar.
Each group of men will find its own personality, its own style, its own way to win. All the bullshit of who we MUST pick first, is just that, bullshit. It's rhetoric.'
The only sure fire way to build a winner is to have players that give their all, that don't make mistakes, that execute, that contribute no matter what. No matter who the Browns draft, without a defined team culture, strategy and focus, it won't matter who they draft. No one or two players is going to turn this shit bag into a winner. This draft is important, but it isn't the most important factor in the Browns becoming a winner.
Fair enough. All excellent points.
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It wasn't just any team, though - it was only Cleveland. He only denied one of 32. He said that pre-draft as well, so it's not like he was unclear.
He didn't say he'd hold out if NYJ drafted him, for example -- and they'd probably have done much better with him rather than the forgettable Calvin Pryor at the 18.
It's interesting debating counterfactuals.. because the only fact that was in the war room at the time was that he stated he wasn't going to sign.
Here's the thoughts that get me regarding that list, though, after Teddy is ignored: Was Manziel #2 on this analysis? If he actually was, wouldn't Haslam buy into analytics less at this point, because the list would have been shown to be a crapshoot?
Wouldn't a more plausible theory be... The study showed that Manziel was essentially undraftable [because of shyte ability to actually play quarterback, as we have seen, or because he as a person is not professional] but Haslam overruled the study and ordered the draft of Manziel -- and now is humble, thus willing to leave the football to the football people who were right all along???
It wasn't just any team, though - it was only Cleveland. He only denied one of 32. He said that pre-draft as well, so it's not like he was unclear.
He didn't say he'd hold out if NYJ drafted him
He didnt say he'd hold out here either....definitely would've signed. Just said he preferred Minnesota. after he was drafted by Minn.....
Oh I remember his him running his mouth after he went to Minnesota, and his mommy or somebody saying they didn't want him to go to Cleveland.
And if you want to think that analytics has proved that Bilgewater is the best quarterback of his class knock yourself out.
I think it was Devontes Parkers Mommy making all the noise......she was something else......
On the analytics....I dont think they can predict who will ultimately be the best(ceiling)...more about who wont be the worst or who is most likely to succeed at any level(floor)....
And, Id say, of the 4 main guys Bridgewater, Bortles, Carr & JFF.....3 of em had bigger question marks, risk vs reward.......and Bridgewater had the highest floor, but not the highest ceiling....making him a safe pick, but one who probably wouldn't become a superstar....
Bortles and Johnny had huge question marks creating more risk....but the reward factor was so much higher if they developed well...so, do you roll the dice on a star or take the safe hum drum pick??.....and, Im thinking, analytics will tell you who the safe pick is....
Wash, rinse repeat...every 2 years fire HC and GM ...we are doing the same thing over and over and getting the same result but at least this time we are looking in a different direction by using analytics.
I like the idea of trying something different too....repeating the same mistake over and over gets tiring...so this seems like an attempt not to do that.....
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It wasn't just any team, though - it was only Cleveland. He only denied one of 32. He said that pre-draft as well, so it's not like he was unclear.
He didn't say he'd hold out if NYJ drafted him
He didnt say he'd hold out here either....definitely would've signed. Just said he preferred Minnesota. after he was drafted by Minn.....
Oh I remember his him running his mouth after he went to Minnesota, and his mommy or somebody saying they didn't want him to go to Cleveland.
And if you want to think that analytics has proved that Bilgewater is the best quarterback of his class knock yourself out.
I think it was Devontes Parkers Mommy making all the noise......she was something else......
On the analytics....I dont think they can predict who will ultimately be the best(ceiling)...more about who wont be the worst or who is most likely to succeed at any level(floor)....
And, Id say, of the 4 main guys Bridgewater, Bortles, Carr & JFF.....3 of em had bigger question marks, risk vs reward.......and Bridgewater had the highest floor, but not the highest ceiling....making him a safe pick, but one who probably wouldn't become a superstar....
Bortles and Johnny had huge question marks creating more risk....but the reward factor was so much higher if they developed well...so, do you roll the dice on a star or take the safe hum drum pick??.....and, Im thinking, analytics will tell you who the safe pick is....
Wash, rinse repeat...every 2 years fire HC and GM ...we are doing the same thing over and over and getting the same result but at least this time we are looking in a different direction by using analytics.
I like the idea of trying something different too....repeating the same mistake over and over gets tiring...so this seems like an attempt not to do that.....
I like the idea of trying something different too....repeating the same mistake over and over gets tiring...so this seems like an attempt not to do that.....
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So? You think that you have to draft a high first round pick QB to take you to the Super Bowl win?
Not so fast my friends:
There have been 30 QBs that have won these 50 Super Bowls.
Of those....almost one half of them did not win the Super Bowl with the team that drafted them:
Len Dawson
John Unitas
Jim Plunkett
Joe Theisman
Doug Williams
Steve Young
Brett Favre
John Elway
Kurt Warner
Trent Dilfer
Brad Johnson
Drew Brees
Eli Manning
Peyton Manning #
of course, 2 of these were #1 overall picks that were traded immediately: Elway and Eli. But the fact is they are not with the team that drafted them. 14 of the 30 SB winning QBs were not drafted by the team they won for. #
And even of those that did win with the team that drafted them, they were not always necessarily first round picks. Almost half were not:
Tom Brady round 6 #199
Russell Wilson round 3
Mark Rypien round 6 #146
Jeff Hostetler round 3
Joe Montana round 3
Roger Staubach round 10
Bart Starr #200 (like round 17 at the time)
Ken Stabler Round 2
Only the following were first round draft picks that won the Super Bowl with the team that drafted them:
Joe Flacco
Ben Roethlisberger
Troy Aikman
Phil Simms
Jim McMahon
Terry Bradshaw
Bob Griese
Joe Namath AFL draft
Peyton Manning#
# Peyton you see now fits into the two categories as he won one with the team that drafted him...the Colts...then with a team that got him later, the Broncos.
17 of the Super Bowl winning QBs were drafted by that team #
So, as you can see, less than one third of Super Bowl winning QBs came from the first round of the team that drafted them. It is still probably the best statistical way of getting one....but it is not the only way.
My point is this: I am all in on the Browns getting that killer defense.....and then getting the good QB possibly by another method.
My point is this: I am all in on the Browns getting that killer defense.....and then getting the good QB possibly by another method.
i'm in!!
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Holy fuck.
Bridgewater would not sign here.
Get over this shit already - you're 100% wrong.
Your entire post is predicated upon the assumption that he would sign once drafted. His agent stated quite clearly "Cleveland is not the place he wants to be." Passing on him was, in fact, the right move.
There are of course other busts at the end of the first that year [Marcus Smith, Dee Ford, Jimmie Smith] but there are also hits [Deone Bucannon, Dominique Easley, Jason Verrett, Kelvin Benjamin].. so good players were still available other than He Who Shall Not Be Named.
This is as dumb of a post as I have seen lately: If the Browns drafted Bridgewater he would have signed and played here. Simple as that. What was he going to do, sit out a year, not play....and be completely forgotten and fallen down to maybe be a mid round choice? His agent would not have put up with that.
This is as dumb of a post as I have seen lately: If the Browns drafted Bridgewater he would have signed and played here. Simple as that. What was he going to do, sit out a year, not play....and be completely forgotten and fallen down to maybe be a mid round choice? His agent would not have put up with that.
Maybe, maybe not. http://www.si.com/nfl/audibles/2014/05/13/teddy-bridgewater-cleveland-browns-nfl-draft
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This is as dumb of a post as I have seen lately: If the Browns drafted Bridgewater he would have signed and played here. Simple as that. What was he going to do, sit out a year, not play....and be completely forgotten and fallen down to maybe be a mid round choice? His agent would not have put up with that.
Maybe, maybe not. http://www.si.com/nfl/audibles/2014/05/13/teddy-bridgewater-cleveland-browns-nfl-draft
Maybe, maybe not. http://www.si.com/nfl/audibles/2014/05/13/teddy-bridgewater-cleveland-browns-nfl-draft
I'd say that would be a pretty bold move for a guy who sneaked into the first round by the skin of his ass.
WSS
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Speaking of Albert- They just announced yesterday he was right about the existence of gravity waves. Took 100 years to prove it though.
http://www.space.com/31900-gravitational-waves-discovery-ligo.html
Gravitational waves were first predicted by Albert Einstein in his famous 1916 paper on general relativity. One of the central, and strangest, tenets of general relativity is that space and time are not separate things but rather are linked together in a single fabric: space-time. - -
Speaking of Albert- They just announced yesterday he was right about the existence of gravity waves. Took 100 years to prove it though.
http://www.space.com/31900-gravitational-waves-discovery-ligo.html
Gravitational waves were first predicted by Albert Einstein in his famous 1916 paper on general relativity. One of the central, and strangest, tenets of general relativity is that space and time are not separate things but rather are linked together in a single fabric: space-time. -Speaking of Albert- They just announced yesterday he was right about the existence of gravity waves. Took 100 years to prove it though.
http://www.space.com/31900-gravitational-waves-discovery-ligo.html
Gravitational waves were first predicted by Albert Einstein in his famous 1916 paper on general relativity. One of the central, and strangest, tenets of general relativity is that space and time are not separate things but rather are linked together in a single fabric: space-time. -Anyone that watched Sliders knew that. No?
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Speaking of Albert- They just announced yesterday he was right about the existence of gravity waves. Took 100 years to prove it though.
http://www.space.com/31900-gravitational-waves-discovery-ligo.html
Gravitational waves were first predicted by Albert Einstein in his famous 1916 paper on general relativity. One of the central, and strangest, tenets of general relativity is that space and time are not separate things but rather are linked together in a single fabric: space-time. -Speaking of Albert- They just announced yesterday he was right about the existence of gravity waves. Took 100 years to prove it though.
http://www.space.com/31900-gravitational-waves-discovery-ligo.html
I was wondering how they detected the waves, and knew what and how far away the triggering event was... now I know. Sweet...
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It wasn't just any team, though - it was only Cleveland. He only denied one of 32. He said that pre-draft as well, so it's not like he was unclear.
He didn't say he'd hold out if NYJ drafted him, for example -- and they'd probably have done much better with him rather than the forgettable Calvin Pryor at the 18.
It's interesting debating counterfactuals.. because the only fact that was in the war room at the time was that he stated he wasn't going to sign.
Here's the thoughts that get me regarding that list, though, after Teddy is ignored: Was Manziel #2 on this analysis? If he actually was, wouldn't Haslam buy into analytics less at this point, because the list would have been shown to be a crapshoot?
Wouldn't a more plausible theory be... The study showed that Manziel was essentially undraftable [because of shyte ability to actually play quarterback, as we have seen, or because he as a person is not professional] but Haslam overruled the study and ordered the draft of Manziel -- and now is humble, thus willing to leave the football to the football people who were right all along???
at least you're not a full-on mouth breather, oh wait, you are.It wasn't just any team, though - it was only Cleveland. He only denied one of 32. He said that pre-draft as well, so it's not like he was unclear.
He didn't say he'd hold out if NYJ drafted him, for example -- and they'd probably have done much better with him rather than the forgettable Calvin Pryor at the 18.
It's interesting debating counterfactuals.. because the only fact that was in the war room at the time was that he stated he wasn't going to sign.
Here's the thoughts that get me regarding that list, though, after Teddy is ignored: Was Manziel #2 on this analysis? If he actually was, wouldn't Haslam buy into analytics less at this point, because the list would have been shown to be a crapshoot?
Wouldn't a more plausible theory be... The study showed that Manziel was essentially undraftable [because of shyte ability to actually play quarterback, as we have seen, or because he as a person is not professional] but Haslam overruled the study and ordered the draft of Manziel -- and now is humble, thus willing to leave the football to the football people who were right all along???
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Speaking of Albert- They just announced yesterday he was right about the existence of gravity waves. Took 100 years to prove it though.
http://www.space.com/31900-gravitational-waves-discovery-ligo.html
I was wondering how they detected the waves, and knew what and how far away the triggering event was... now I know. Sweet...
I was wondering how they detected the waves, and knew what and how far away the triggering event was... now I know. Sweet...
Confirms everything I know about black holes. The closer you get the more they just suck you in until gravity takes over and there's no getting away.
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Confirms everything I know about black holes. The closer you get the more they just suck you in until gravity takes over and there's no getting away.
Since this is a football board & one of my other hobbies is Astronomy- I'll keep it short.
I always wondered about why they represented a Black Hole as one of those vortex gizmos you occasionally see. Drop a coin in the vortex, the farther down it goes, the faster the coin spins. They warp gravity in the same way. The Black Holes that merged were spinning around one another 70 times a second before they merged. As far as nothing getting away- not exactly, Has to do with a plausible explanation of the Big Bang. Shoot me a PM and I'll explain, has to do with E=MC2.
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Confirms everything I know about black holes. The closer you get the more they just suck you in until gravity takes over and there's no getting away.
Since this is a football board & one of my other hobbies is Astronomy- I'll keep it short.
I always wondered about why they represented a Black Hole as one of those vortex gizmos you occasionally see. Drop a coin in the vortex, the farther down it goes, the faster the coin spins. They warp gravity in the same way. The Black Holes that merged were spinning around one another 70 times a second before they merged. As far as nothing getting away- not exactly, Has to do with a plausible explanation of the Big Bang. Shoot me a PM and I'll explain, has to do with E=MC2.
Since this is a football board & one of my other hobbies is Astronomy- I'll keep it short.
I always wondered about why they represented a Black Hole as one of those vortex gizmos you occasionally see. Drop a coin in the vortex, the farther down it goes, the faster the coin spins. They warp gravity in the same way. The Black Holes that merged were spinning around one another 70 times a second before they merged. As far as nothing getting away- not exactly, Has to do with a plausible explanation of the Big Bang. Shoot me a PM and I'll explain, has to do with E=MC2.
Matter doesn't get away but energy does. Energy amounting to three times that of our sun escaped that black hole collision, 1.3bn years ago, and warped spacetime. Incredible. And the detection methods, the ripples it caused were so infinitessimal - if the laser detectors ran, instead of the 2000 miles or so they do run, if they ran from here to the nearest star (proxima centauri), the difference would be a hair's width. So scaled back to 2000 miles, and it's fractions of fractions of atoms. To think we have detectors capable of such things is astonishing.
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I just watched a program a few days ago before this latest research came out. One of thee things that happens as another object approaches a black hole's event horizon is that time slows down to next to nothing. wonder what takes place when two black holes intercept at their event horizons as they spiral in to one another.
Sometimes the intelligence I see on this board (beyond the bickering and bombast) is astounding. I'm reading an excellent book at the moment entitled, "The Copernicus Complex-Our cosmic significance in a universe of planets and probabilities."
And excellent read inclusive of most recent finds in astronomy about planetary systems found around other stars thus far. It's like comparative anatomy of the cosmos. BTW on the Science Channel Sunday Feb. 21 @ 8pm CT and on the Discovery Channel Sat. Feb. 20 @ 8pm CT there is a program on the James Webb telescope, the next gen step up from Hubble. Program will discuss the high expectations for his newest space telescope. http://www.jwst.nasa.gov/
http://www.space.com/30877-james-webb-space-telescope-documentary.html
100 X's more powerful than Hubble and capable of detecting "signature of life" on other planets far from our own.
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I just watched a program a few days ago before this latest research came out. One of thee things that happens as another object approaches a black hole's event horizon is that time slows down to next to nothing. wonder what takes place when two black holes intercept at their event horizons as they spiral in to one another.
Sometimes the intelligence I see on this board (beyond the bickering and bombast) is astounding. I'm reading an excellent book at the moment entitled, "The Copernicus Complex-Our cosmic significance in a universe of planets and probabilities."
And excellent read inclusive of most recent finds in astronomy about planetary systems found around other stars thus far. It's like comparative anatomy of the cosmos. BTW on the Science Channel Sunday Feb. 21 @ 8pm CT and on the Discovery Channel Sat. Feb. 20 @ 8pm CT there is a program on the James Webb telescope, the next gen step up from Hubble. Program will discuss the high expectations for his newest space telescope. http://www.jwst.nasa.gov/
http://www.space.com/30877-james-webb-space-telescope-documentary.html
100 X's more powerful than Hubble and capable of detecting "signature of life" on other planets far from our own.
I just watched a program a few days ago before this latest research came out. One of thee things that happens as another object approaches a black hole's event horizon is that time slows down to next to nothing. wonder what takes place when two black holes intercept at their event horizons as they spiral in to one another.
Sometimes the intelligence I see on this board (beyond the bickering and bombast) is astounding. I'm reading an excellent book at the moment entitled, "The Copernicus Complex-Our cosmic significance in a universe of planets and probabilities."
And excellent read inclusive of most recent finds in astronomy about planetary systems found around other stars thus far. It's like comparative anatomy of the cosmos. BTW on the Science Channel Sunday Feb. 21 @ 8pm CT and on the Discovery Channel Sat. Feb. 20 @ 8pm CT there is a program on the James Webb telescope, the next gen step up from Hubble. Program will discuss the high expectations for his newest space telescope. http://www.jwst.nasa.gov/
http://www.space.com/30877-james-webb-space-telescope-documentary.html
100 X's more powerful than Hubble and capable of detecting "signature of life" on other planets far from our own.
Two black hoes wouldn't have much of a different effect than a single black hole of the combined masses, at a shared event horizon. Time slowed down to almost nothing.
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I think our best case would be to draft a qb and bring in the free agent that gives us the best chance to win and let them compete for qb. A good example of this would be Denver with Manning and Osweiler. I don't expect us to get a free agent the caliber of Manning but at least we could have a capable back up if our rookie does turn out to be a franchise caliber qb. This by no means is saying we need to get or don't need to get a qb with the number 2 pick just that we don't need to reach if we do not feel the qb is not worth the pick.
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