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Ray Horton out

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  • W wargograw

    @clevfan4life said:

    different players c'mon now. Von was a 4-3 olb'er when he first came to the NFL right?

    4-3 DE in 2009. 3-4 OLB in 2010.

    C Clevfan4life wrote on
    #72

    @wargograw said:

    4-3 DE in 2009. 3-4 OLB in 2010.

    Ehhh u might be right i think i was mixing up him and mack there

  • Tour2maT Tour2ma

    @clevfan4life said:

    oh no shit? is this verified?

    .

    I'm trying to... google coming up empty, but I know I read an account somewhere. I think it was in the Browns' reddit sub. Still looking, but it's harder to dredge up "threads" over there.

    @flyingfooldoug said:

    Horton is not fired...Yet. Greg Williams has till Monday to decide on the offer but Horty is still here. Awkward.

    Awkward plus...

    @flugel said:

    I like Wade best too. That said, Greg Williams also has HC experience in Buffalo even if it's one he'd like to forget. With both buys, they're best wired to be DCs. I think Williams has SB experience as a DC in TN. I can't remember if he was also the DC of New Orleans when they won the SB; but there's a pretty resume for him on that side of the ball.

    That was Gregg as DC in NOLA's SB year. His D was 20th in points allowed and 25th in yards. But NO was geared to outscore opponents and #1 in both categories on Offense, so there was a lot of prevent D late in games.

    Gregg's BUF HC gig was forgettable... as in I did not* remember him in that role for 3 years, but he did improve them from year one to year two (8-8) and his D was 15th in yards allowed. Career path shows a pretty meteoric rise with only 4 years at the DC level, all under Fisher in TN... in fact his whole NFL career prior to BUF was under Fisher.

    ________________________________

    *Edited in an important excluded word...

    Tour2maT Tour2ma wrote on
    #73

    @tour2ma said:

    Gregg's BUF HC gig was forgettable... as in I did not* remember him in that role for 3 years, but he did improve them from year one to year two (8-8) and his D was 15th in yards allowed. Career path shows a pretty meteoric rise with only 4 years at the DC level, all under Fisher in TN... in fact his whole NFL career prior to BUF was under Fisher.

    ________________________________

    *Edited in an important excluded word...

    Clearing the record above... my memory is not that good.

    Also did not flesh out the meteoric bit... was going for "rose too fast too soon with little breathe of experience" when a damn squirrel ran through my peripheral vision.

    @flugel said:

    True; and if memory serves me right they did pretty well at forcing turnovers which is every bit as important. They've always scored a lot of points with Brees there; but he's often had to feel like Dan Fouts with do I need to QB us to 35-40 points in order to win every week? That changes when your defense forces turnovers and either shortens the field or scores.

    I remember a very aggressive D in NOLA... one that used it to compensate for a lack of talent effectively. Not that they were talent-less, but did not include the household names of other contemporary Ds. Mr. Bountygate, Vilma was there... also Will Smith (R.I.P.)... with Sharper anchoring their 2ndary. Plus my old fav from the too-short, Mangenius era, Scott Fujita...

    Just looked and NO posted 35 sacks and 39 TOs in '09... and needed the latter to eek out a +11 differential.

    Maybe Brees is a gunslinger after all... 😉

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
  • flyingfooldougF flyingfooldoug wrote on
    #74

    Tour is right about a Huey v Horty dust-up. I forget what game but the headphones were ripped off in anger and words exchanged between HC and the D in general

  • C Clevfan4life wrote on
    #75

    only the Browns could semi fire a DC. What's gonna happen if no one accepts the job? Hey Ray, ur back in baby!!!

  • Tour2maT Tour2ma wrote on
    #76

    Except of course Ray's still not fired as of now...

    or now...

    or...

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
  • LBC mikeL LBC mike wrote on
    #77

    Hope someone accepts the position. We have a waterboy that plays madden?

  • darren15D darren15 wrote on
    #78

    Gregg Williams has reportedly accepted offer to become the #Browns’ defensive coordinator

    http://nfltraderumors.co/breaking-browns-hiring-gregg-williams-defensive-coordinator/

    Jason La Canfora ‏@JasonLaCanfora 17m17 minutes ago
    Jason La Canfora@JasonLaCanfora
    The Browns have secured Gregg Williams to be their next defensive coordinator. Done deal. Wholesale changes coming to defensive staff
    Jan 7, 2017 422 63View on X

    The Browns have secured Gregg Williams to be their next defensive coordinator. Done deal. Wholesale changes coming to defensive staff

  • darren15D darren15 wrote on
    #79

    3-4

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/browns-make-wholesale-changes-on-d-hire-gregg-williams-and-3-4-assistants/

    T 1 Reply
  • U Unsympathetic

    @clevfan4life said:

    I thoughtbthe rams lost most of that DL talent?

    You haven't heard of Aaron Donald? And Michael Brockers is good in his own right as the other DT. Also, Robert Quinn had 19 sacks.. naturally, the year before Williams took over.

    FYI, all 3 of those were 1st-rd picks.

    Rams DL was this year and will be for the foreseeable future the #1 DL in football.. perhaps not in production due to Williams but definitely in individual talent and payroll..

    Note that Browns.com is reporting Hue did the firing of Horton -- leads me to think Hue pushed for that change.. So, it's not him losing control at all, rather him getting frustrated and making a move..

    As well, apparently Williams was DC for 5 top-5 D's.. Tennessee (No. 1 in total defense in 2000), Buffalo (No. 3 in 2001 and No. 2 in 2003), Washington (No. 3 in 2005), and New Orleans (No. 4 in 2010)

    gumby73G gumby73 wrote on
    #80

    @unsympathetic said:

    As well, apparently Williams was DC for 5 top-5 D's.. Tennessee (No. 1 in total defense in 2000), Buffalo (No. 3 in 2001 and No. 2 in 2003), Washington (No. 3 in 2005), and New Orleans (No. 4 in 2010)

    getting 3 out of 4 of these teams to play any kind of defense in top 5..Welcome aboard Gregg Williams!!

    Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends
  • darren15D darren15

    3-4

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/browns-make-wholesale-changes-on-d-hire-gregg-williams-and-3-4-assistants/

    T TexasAg1969 wrote on
    #81

    @darren15 said:

    At first I thought you meant running the 3-4, but it's bringing 3-4 assistants with him. Cleaning the defensive house out.

  • Tour2maT Tour2ma

    Offered to 4-3 Williams and contacted 3-4 Phillips? 😳

    I am actually good either way, although have a preference for Wade.

    nickersN nickers wrote on
    #82

    @tour2ma said:

    Offered to 4-3 Williams and contacted 3-4 Phillips? 😳

    I am actually good either way, although have a preference for Wade.

    Phillips runs a 4-3 1 gap defense.. I'm good either way...

    Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~
    tiamat63T 1 Reply
  • T TexasAg1969 wrote on
    #83

    This might be helpful for the 4-3 1 gap explanation.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1999358-nfl-101-the-basics-of-the-4-3-defensive-front

    Written in 2014 you can see why I think we are favoring drafting Garrett, near clone of Clowney in size, speed & athleticism.

    From the article:

    —"Open-side" defensive end

    The majority of NFL offenses are right handed in terms of formation and alignment, so I look to the open-side end (or right end) as a key factor in the 4-3 front.

    You want size, length and true athletic ability on the edge of the defense that can hold the point, turn the corner versus an offensive tackle and play the cutback against the run game. That’s the Rams’ Robert Quinn or the Giants’ Jason Pierre-Paul with Jadeveon Clowney up next in this year’s draft class.

  • The Cysko KidT The Cysko Kid

    Fired. Browns have apparently contacted wade phillips.

    ballpeenB ballpeen wrote on
    #84

    @the-cysko-kid said:

    Fired. Browns have apparently contacted wade phillips.

    Good. He sucked the first time he was in town.

    If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
  • LBC mikeL LBC mike wrote on
    #85

    Nice. Thanks Ray for all your help

  • nickersN nickers

    @tour2ma said:

    Offered to 4-3 Williams and contacted 3-4 Phillips? 😳

    I am actually good either way, although have a preference for Wade.

    Phillips runs a 4-3 1 gap defense.. I'm good either way...

    tiamat63T tiamat63 wrote on
    #86

    @nickers said:

    Phillips runs a 4-3 1 gap defense.. I'm good either way...

    Not exactly. His base is old school, Bud Wilkinson 52/34 - still one gap principles the vast majority of the time.

    Coach Wade usually doesn't have a massive NT that you would traditionally see in your 'classic' 2 gapping 34 base with a 0tech and heads up on the tackles.

    The differences in scheme are negligible aside from how your OLB's align in your base defense (for the most part). Both Wade and Williams believe in blitzing especially early down 5 man pressures and heavy man coverage. I'd expect our draft targets to be similar for either coach.

    FlugelF Tour2maT 2 Replies
  • tiamat63T tiamat63

    @nickers said:

    Phillips runs a 4-3 1 gap defense.. I'm good either way...

    Not exactly. His base is old school, Bud Wilkinson 52/34 - still one gap principles the vast majority of the time.

    Coach Wade usually doesn't have a massive NT that you would traditionally see in your 'classic' 2 gapping 34 base with a 0tech and heads up on the tackles.

    The differences in scheme are negligible aside from how your OLB's align in your base defense (for the most part). Both Wade and Williams believe in blitzing especially early down 5 man pressures and heavy man coverage. I'd expect our draft targets to be similar for either coach.

    FlugelF Flugel wrote on
    #87

    @tiamat63 said:

    Not exactly. His base is old school, Bud Wilkinson 52/34 - still one gap principles the vast majority of the time.

    Coach Wade usually doesn't have a massive NT that you would traditionally see in your 'classic' 2 gapping 34 base with a 0tech and heads up on the tackles.

    The differences in scheme are negligible aside from how your OLB's align in your base defense (for the most part). Both Wade and Williams believe in blitzing especially early down 5 man pressures and heavy man coverage. I'd expect our draft targets to be similar for either coach.

    Good points T. Wade actually used a lot of different fronts. Once upon a time it was thought by many draft enthusiasts on many of those draft sites we read today that JJ Watt was best wired for a 3-4, which Houston was using before he was drafted. I read after Watt's rookie season, Phillips actually used a 4 man front about 85% of the time that year. I'm guessing there wasn't any reason to change that frequency shortly thereafter.

    In saying all that, the benefit of having an experienced DC is he's able to adapt to the personnel he has.

    I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!"
  • C Clevfan4life wrote on
    #88

    Look at Houston's defense this year. They run mostly 4 man fronts now and Clowneys becoming a beast. When they get Watt back omg. Watt and clowney on the edges? If watt comes back right this could be a historic defense next year.

  • The Cysko KidT The Cysko Kid wrote on
    #89

    Horton is a suck ass coordinator who has sucked in every capacity he's served in and no matter what the circumstances of his firing are he was never going to be good. We're better off without him.

    This shit ain't nothing to me, man.
    hoortaH 1 Reply
  • nickersN nickers wrote on
    #90

    "Whoreton" has been gawd awful , everywhere hes been...Nuff said!

    Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~
  • The Cysko KidT The Cysko Kid

    Horton is a suck ass coordinator who has sucked in every capacity he's served in and no matter what the circumstances of his firing are he was never going to be good. We're better off without him.

    hoortaH hoorta wrote on
    #91

    @the-cysko-kid said:

    Horton is a suck ass coordinator who has sucked in every capacity he's served in and no matter what the circumstances of his firing are he was never going to be good. We're better off without him.

    Exactly. Mr. Ghools look up the records (and defensive stats) of the teams he's been coordinator on- he sucks worse than Hue.

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