Manny Ramirez SUSPENDED 50 Games - Performance Enhancers
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HCG (Generic name: Human chorionic gonadotropin)
Pregnyl by Organon. 5,000 to 20,000 IU (International Units) per 10 cc vials. This drug is not a steroid but it is widely used in athletics today. HCG is a natural protein hormone secreted by the human placenta and purified form the urine of pregnant women.
hCG is the substance detected by home pregnancy tests.
hCG is the substance detected by home pregnancy tests.
Umm, yeah, but I'm going out on a limb and saying ManRam wasn't taking it for that particular purpose nor was he trying to cut weight.
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I love baseball; I really do...this stuff just makes me sad...bunch of tools
When do we get a real team back in Cleveland?
Beans - Offer is still open for a Clippers game at Huntington Park...on me; we can rehash old RR days under the sun
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I played baseball for a better part of my childhood and now I am an assistant coach for the high school that I graduated from. It really hurts me when I hear the guys on my team say they look up to these douche nozzles. I honestly can't see a reason to realistically look at anyone in MLB that's name is out there for records or hitting titles or whatever and says he's clean. I honestly can't think of anyone that contends for the hitting crown that's clean other than pujols. As far as pitching goes it makes my stomach turn when you hear of kids coming out of high school and college that are having Tommy John surgery to even stand a chance of competing in the big leagues. These kids are throwing so hard and basically rebuilding their arms just to have a chance to pursue their childhood dream of playing in the pros. When the guys they are sacrificing the bodies for are nothing but mere cowards and cheats. And these assholes are suppoed to be role models. Bud Selig should be beaten for allowing this to get this far. Thanks for ruining one of America's past times.
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I'll ditto that. Until baseball takes the same stance as track & field, first offense you're gone for two years, next one is a lifetime ban. And void all their records while you're at it. No one shed a tear when Ben "the steroid factory" Johnson got his world record in the 100 wiped out. As far as I'm concerned, McGuire, Sosa's, A-roid, Bonds, & Clemens records all belong in the trash can, and like Pete Rose- no Hall of Fame for you.
How do you do that exactly?
The void their records part. Do you just ignore Sosa's career even though he never once tested positive for performance enhancers? You'd clearly have to do the same for Clemente and everyone in his era, what with greenies stacked on the table of locker rooms for all to enjoy back in the day.
Obviously, the same gifts were given to football players.
I just don't understand how anyone can be so certain - so positive - that certain players benefited from enhancers while others clearly did not.
Beanpot
How do you do that exactly?
The void their records part. Do you just ignore Sosa's career even though he never once tested positive for performance enhancers? You'd clearly have to do the same for Clemente and everyone in his era, what with greenies stacked on the table of locker rooms for all to enjoy back in the day.
Obviously, the same gifts were given to football players.
I just don't understand how anyone can be so certain - so positive - that certain players benefited from enhancers while others clearly did not.
Beanpot
Ok, I'll grant you lousy testing. It's just a coincidence Maris' record stood for decades, and all of a sudden, a bunch of guys were hitting 70 HR a year. Funny how no one's come close lately.
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Before we start sending all the modern day athletes to Siberia as punishment keep in mind that drugs have always played a part in major league baseball....
In the 50's and 60's, the locker rooms on EVERY TEAM was chock full of anphetamines (sic) "speeders" to help the player gety through the day....
Feeling a little sluggish, go see the trainer and get a handfull of christmas trees, that will amp up your play....
The modern athelete, with the monster salaries, just took it to a higher level.....
I'm not saying it's acceptable but with the most powerful labor union behind you, some players choose to do whatever is necessary to keep that major league paycheck....
Speeders have been the staple in both the NFL & MLB since I can remember...
When I was in college, the Steelers trained at West Liberty State College in West Virginia....
Bobby Lane & his teammates would be out in the bars, the local hangout "the bucket of blood", into the wee hours of the morning... The next day they took speeders to get them through practice...
I'm not saying it's right or fair, just saying what it is and what I saw.....
T.Dawg
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Before we start sending all the modern day athletes to Siberia as punishment keep in mind that drugs have always played a part in major league baseball....
In the 50's and 60's, the locker rooms on EVERY TEAM was chock full of anphetamines (sic) "speeders" to help the player gety through the day....
Feeling a little sluggish, go see the trainer and get a handfull of christmas trees, that will amp up your play....
The modern athelete, with the monster salaries, just took it to a higher level.....
I'm not saying it's acceptable but with the most powerful labor union behind you, some players choose to do whatever is necessary to keep that major league paycheck....
Speeders have been the staple in both the NFL & MLB since I can remember...
When I was in college, the Steelers trained at West Liberty State College in West Virginia....
Bobby Lane & his teammates would be out in the bars, the local hangout "the bucket of blood", into the wee hours of the morning... The next day they took speeders to get them through practice...
I'm not saying it's right or fair, just saying what it is and what I saw.....
T.Dawg
Before we start sending all the modern day athletes to Siberia as punishment keep in mind that drugs have always played a part in major league baseball....
In the 50's and 60's, the locker rooms on EVERY TEAM was chock full of anphetamines (sic) "speeders" to help the player gety through the day....
Feeling a little sluggish, go see the trainer and get a handfull of christmas trees, that will amp up your play....
The modern athelete, with the monster salaries, just took it to a higher level.....
I'm not saying it's acceptable but with the most powerful labor union behind you, some players choose to do whatever is necessary to keep that major league paycheck....
Speeders have been the staple in both the NFL & MLB since I can remember...
When I was in college, the Steelers trained at West Liberty State College in West Virginia....
Bobby Lane & his teammates would be out in the bars, the local hangout "the bucket of blood", into the wee hours of the morning... The next day they took speeders to get them through practice...
I'm not saying it's right or fair, just saying what it is and what I saw.....
T.Dawg
Good points but steroids are a whole other level as far as drugs go, they really do make a huge difference.
Is a pig's ass pork? -
i didn't like baseball then, dislike it even more now. they got busted at a publicity stunt, and are pushing it threw despite the fact. pretty sad actually.
as rating were falling, the only thing to spring the life back into baseball was the mcguire run. baseball execs knowing sold their livlihood, and american pastime, down the river for money.
they'll reap what they sow....especially if they let these records stand.
and xxxx pete rose...trying to capitalize on this situation to get into the hall of fame.
this sports pathetic....
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i didn't like baseball then, dislike it even more now. they got busted at a publicity stunt, and are pushing it threw despite the fact. pretty sad actually.
as rating were falling, the only thing to spring the life back into baseball was the mcguire run. baseball execs knowing sold their livlihood, and american pastime, down the river for money.
they'll reap what they sow....especially if they let these records stand.
and xxxx pete rose...trying to capitalize on this situation to get into the hall of fame.
this sports pathetic....
i didn't like baseball then, dislike it even more now. they got busted at a publicity stunt, and are pushing it threw despite the fact. pretty sad actually.
as rating were falling, the only thing to spring the life back into baseball was the mcguire run. baseball execs knowing sold their livelihood, and American pastime, down the river for money.
they'll reap what they sow....especially if they let these records stand.
and xxxx pete rose...trying to capitalize on this situation to get into the hall of fame.
this sports pathetic....
All I'll say is I'm damn glad baseball is way down on my list of pro sports. They let the inmates run the asylum for far too long.
Beans is the baseball purist- seems like. You have some mighty good points. And what it boils down to- if everybody's cheating, then nobody's cheating. Juiced up pitchers throwing at juiced up batters.
Ironic Rose's nickname "Charlie Hustle" pretty accurately describes why he'll never see the HOF in his lifetime- and it serves him right. And the voters seem to agree that steroids are something that keeps you out of the Hall.
Yeah, McGuire was only taking androsterone. Clemens accidentally sat on a needle 20 times while his wife was taking HGH. Bonds thought "the Clear" was in one of my bottles of Curacao. How much is he paying his trainer to go to jail again to keep his dirty not-so-secret secret?
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I'll ditto that. Until baseball takes the same stance as track & field, first offense you're gone for two years, next one is a lifetime ban. And void all their records while you're at it. No one shed a tear when Ben "the steroid factory" Johnson got his world record in the 100 wiped out. As far as I'm concerned, McGuire, Sosa's, A-roid, Bonds, & Clemens records all belong in the trash can, and like Pete Rose- no Hall of Fame for you.
How do you do that exactly?
The void their records part. Do you just ignore Sosa's career even though he never once tested positive for performance enhancers? You'd clearly have to do the same for Clemente and everyone in his era, what with greenies stacked on the table of locker rooms for all to enjoy back in the day.
Obviously, the same gifts were given to football players.
I just don't understand how anyone can be so certain - so positive - that certain players benefited from enhancers while others clearly did not.
Beanpot
How do you do that exactly?
The void their records part. Do you just ignore Sosa's career even though he never once tested positive for performance enhancers?
I just don't understand how anyone can be so certain - so positive - that certain players benefited from enhancers while others clearly did not.
Beanpot
Sosa may have never tested positive, but the loser was caught corking the bat
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/...osa_ejected_ap/
That alone is enough to cast doubt over him. If he cheated then, he'd probably cheated before. Its not too far a stretch to think that modifying a bat could become modifying onesself
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How did this thread go from Manny bashing to Pete Rose bashing? Pete wasn't doing any PED's! Pete Rose gambled on baseball AFTER his playing days were over! Regardless of how many of you hate his guts, Rose earned a place in the Hall of Fame for how he played the game! What he did after he was done playing was wrong, yes. But it cannot detract from his playing career! Don't ever let him back in baseball at any level. But put the PLAYER where he belongs, in the Baseball Hall of Fame!
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Pete Rose's numbers as a player are HOF material... The trouble is, as a manager, he bet on baseball--even doing it during a game from the club house...
In every major league contract there's a clause that specifically says that gambling on baseball is cause for lifetime suspension... It's very clear and each year during spring training it's reinforced time and time again... All active players, coaches, managers or front office personnel are subject to expulsion if engaging in gambling...
I loved Pete Rose, played the game the way it's supposed to be played but he committed baseballs mortal sin and deserves what he got... He knew upfront what he was risking and now is paying the price... Shoeless Joe Jackson is not in the HOF for the same reason... Sorry but Pete Rose is where he belongs, did it to himself and that's the way it is...... You can't have selective inforcement..
T.Dawg
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Pete Rose's numbers as a player are HOF material... The trouble is, as a manager, he bet on baseball--even doing it during a game from the club house...
In every major league contract there's a clause that specifically says that gambling on baseball is cause for lifetime suspension... It's very clear and each year during spring training it's reinforced time and time again... All active players, coaches, managers or front office personnel are subject to expulsion if engaging in gambling...
I loved Pete Rose, played the game the way it's supposed to be played but he committed baseballs mortal sin and deserves what he got... He knew upfront what he was risking and now is paying the price... Shoeless Joe Jackson is not in the HOF for the same reason... Sorry but Pete Rose is where he belongs, did it to himself and that's the way it is...... You can't have selective inforcement..
T.Dawg
Pete Rose's numbers as a player are HOF material... The trouble is, as a manager, he bet on baseball--even doing it during a game from the club house...
In every major league contract there's a clause that specifically says that gambling on baseball is cause for lifetime suspension... It's very clear and each year during spring training it's reinforced time and time again... All active players, coaches, managers or front office personnel are subject to expulsion if engaging in gambling...
I loved Pete Rose, played the game the way it's supposed to be played but he committed baseballs mortal sin and deserves what he got... He knew upfront what he was risking and now is paying the price... Shoeless Joe Jackson is not in the HOF for the same reason... Sorry but Pete Rose is where he belongs, did it to himself and that's the way it is...... You can't have selective inforcement..
T.Dawg
You judge a player by there playing career to get in the hall of fame. What Rose did while a manager should have no bearing on his HOF status as a player. If you dont want to put him in as a manager thats fine but he should be in based on his playing career
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too bad voters dont see it the same way...and they're really the only ones that matter.
If Pete Rose was on a ballet he would be in, in a heartbeat
The only person keeping him out is Bud Selig, the guy that allowed the steroid era. The guy who one day will be in the HOF, now thats a disgrace to baseball
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i didn't like baseball then, dislike it even more now. they got busted at a publicity stunt, and are pushing it threw despite the fact. pretty sad actually.
as rating were falling, the only thing to spring the life back into baseball was the mcguire run. baseball execs knowing sold their livelihood, and American pastime, down the river for money.
they'll reap what they sow....especially if they let these records stand.
and xxxx pete rose...trying to capitalize on this situation to get into the hall of fame.
this sports pathetic....
All I'll say is I'm damn glad baseball is way down on my list of pro sports. They let the inmates run the asylum for far too long.
Beans is the baseball purist- seems like. You have some mighty good points. And what it boils down to- if everybody's cheating, then nobody's cheating. Juiced up pitchers throwing at juiced up batters.
Ironic Rose's nickname "Charlie Hustle" pretty accurately describes why he'll never see the HOF in his lifetime- and it serves him right. And the voters seem to agree that steroids are something that keeps you out of the Hall.
Yeah, McGuire was only taking androsterone. Clemens accidentally sat on a needle 20 times while his wife was taking HGH. Bonds thought "the Clear" was in one of my bottles of Curacao. How much is he paying his trainer to go to jail again to keep his dirty not-so-secret secret?
Beans is the baseball purist- seems like.
Oh, not even close. The baseball purist hates the DH, pisses on inter-league play, grinds his heel deep into the blueprints of expansion and defecates all over the '68 rule change that lowered the mound.
I'm not that guy. I simply love the game, warts and all. Not a popular opinion around these parts, it seems.
My question to you about voiding Sosa's records was sincere - how in the hell do you do that? I know all about his corked bat and his corked-filled arms and Rick Reilly's "Excuse Me For Asking" column. I'm pretty sure I know his ass was filled with syringe holes during the latter part of his career.
But my question was simple - how in the hell do you void his career marks and place them in the trash can?
I get that *you* want to ignore his numbers and that's fine. But they actually happened and the record book is nothing more than a recording of those events. As it always has been, it's there for you to interpret any way you'd like. Just as you would if your favorite running back spent four seasons running behind a tackle who was oozing testosterone cream.
Not that that could possibly happen.
Not to come across as too defensive in this crowd, but it's high comedy to read that a football fan is thankful he's not a baseball fan due to...steroids in the sport.
Beanpot
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I love baseball; I really do...this stuff just makes me sad...bunch of tools
When do we get a real team back in Cleveland?
Beans - Offer is still open for a Clippers game at Huntington Park...on me; we can rehash old RR days under the sun
Beans - Offer is still open for a Clippers game at Huntington Park...on me; we can rehash old RR days under the sun
Man, I'd like that. Shoot me an email - [email protected]. I'll be up North a couple of times this summer.
Beanpot
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too bad voters dont see it the same way...and they're really the only ones that matter.
If Pete Rose was on a ballet he would be in, in a heartbeat
The only person keeping him out is Bud Selig, the guy that allowed the steroid era. The guy who one day will be in the HOF, now thats a disgrace to baseball
nmills said:
If Pete Rose was on a ballet he would be in, in a heartbeatThe only person keeping him out is Bud Selig, the guy that allowed the steroid era. The guy who one day will be in the HOF, now thats a disgrace to baseball
Yeah, that's not true at all.
That's so far from being true that it's rotating around the planet and approaching it's not true source.
We've had this discussion for so many years (not sure if any of 'em happened on the current board) that I'm just going to say you're f*%ked if you actually think Bud Selig is keeping Pete Rose out of the HOF.
Beanpot
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nmills said:
If Pete Rose was on a ballet he would be in, in a heartbeatThe only person keeping him out is Bud Selig, the guy that allowed the steroid era. The guy who one day will be in the HOF, now thats a disgrace to baseball
Yeah, that's not true at all.
That's so far from being true that it's rotating around the planet and approaching it's not true source.
We've had this discussion for so many years (not sure if any of 'em happened on the current board) that I'm just going to say you're f*%ked if you actually think Bud Selig is keeping Pete Rose out of the HOF.
Beanpot
Yeah, that's not true at all.
That's so far from being true that it's rotating around the planet and approaching it's not true source.
We've had this discussion for so many years (not sure if any of 'em happened on the current board) that I'm just going to say you're f*%ked if you actually think Bud Selig is keeping Pete Rose out of the HOF.
Beanpot
Are you kidding me, Selig said as long as he's alive Rose will never see the HOF. If that aint keeping him from the HOF I dont no what is
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Yeah, that's not true at all.
That's so far from being true that it's rotating around the planet and approaching it's not true source.
We've had this discussion for so many years (not sure if any of 'em happened on the current board) that I'm just going to say you're f*%ked if you actually think Bud Selig is keeping Pete Rose out of the HOF.
Beanpot
Are you kidding me, Selig said as long as he's alive Rose will never see the HOF. If that aint keeping him from the HOF I dont no what is
nmills said:
Are you kidding me, Selig said as long as he's alive Rose will never see the HOF. If that aint keeping him from the HOF I dont no what isHoly Christ.
Are you kidding ME? I don't "no" what you "no" about his eligibility, but Selig is simply the trust-holder. Rose voluntarily accepted a permanent placement on the banished list, not Selig. I swear to God I'm not going to get into the Dowd Report and the formal findings yet again, but I'll scream from the Heavens that Bud Selig is NOT the reason Pete Rose isn't in the Hall of Fame.
You're ill-informed if you believe that to be true.
Beanpot
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@inspecta said:
As far as I know Rose never bet on his own team, therefore he never effected the outcome of any games other than trying his best to winExcept he did just that. Several times, according to him. Every night according to one report and not every night according to others. On the off chance anyone continues to believe him:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2798498
Rose admits to betting on Reds 'every night'
ESPN.com news services
Pete Rose revealed Wednesday that he bet on the Reds "every night" while he was manager of the team and that the Dowd Report was correct when it said he did so.
Rose spoke Wednesday with Dan Patrick and Keith Olbermann on ESPN Radio to discuss the new Pete Rose exhibit that will be on display at the Great American Ballpark as part of the Reds Hall of Fame. The exhibit will be on display for 11 months.
"I bet on my team every night. I didn't bet on my team four nights a week. I was wrong," Rose said.
Rose said that he believed in his team so much that he bet on them to win every night.
"I bet on my team to win every night because I love my team, I believe in my team," Rose said. "I did everything in my power every night to win that game."
Rose accepted a lifetime ban for gambling in 1989, but denied for nearly 15 years that he bet on baseball. He finally acknowledged in his latest autobiography, published in January 2004, that he made baseball wagers while he managed the Cincinnati Reds.
Rose said he doesn't worry about getting into the Hall of Fame anymore, but if he is reinstated, he hopes to manage again in the majors.
"I quit worrying about it," Rose said about the Hall. The former Reds great said that he thought he was going to be reinstated when he met with commissioner Bud Selig before his book came out. Rose said he met with Selig about a year before the book came out and told him everything that was in the book.
"I really thought I was going to be reinstated. Something changed [selig's] mind," Rose said.
On Thursday, John Dowd, who authored the report chronicling Rose's gambling as a member of the Reds, told "Cold Pizza" on ESPN2 that Rose was mostly right when he said he bet on every Reds game.
Dowd told the program that Rose did not bet at all in the 1987 season when Mario Soto or Bill Gullickson pitched. He also said that Rose bet while he was playing.
Dowd said Rose will never get into the Hall of Fame and should just "get used to it."
Rose said he believes it should be up to each individual owner whether he should manage in the majors again.
"[it's] all about dollars, Dan and Keith. If I was ever reinstated. If an owner don't want to win and draw people, don't call my number," Rose said.
Major League Baseball's Hit King also said he thinks that Mark McGwire is getting a raw deal from the writers voting for the Hall of Fame. The reason he said he supported McGwire is because nothing has been proven and they're all "allegations."
"Don't penalize McGwire because you think other guys are taking steroids," Rose said.
McGwire wasn't voted into the Hall of Fame in his first appearance on the ballot in January because of allegations he used performance-enhancing drugs in his career.
Rose admits he made a mistake in betting on baseball.
"I made a big mistake. It's my fault, It's nobody's else's fault," Rose said. However, he said he should be reinstated because "I'm the best ambassador baseball has."
Because of the ban, Rose is not eligible for induction into the Reds' or Baseball's Hall of Fame. He also is not allowed to be involved in most on-field activities, which has prevented the Reds from retiring his uniform No. 14.
Major League Baseball did include him in two events -- 1999's All-Century Team and 2002's 30 Memorable Moments -- that were sponsored by a credit card company.
The new exhibit includes more than 300 items from the career of Rose, who finished playing in 1986 with a record 4,256 hits. His total is reflected at the Reds' Hall in a three-story high wall of baseballs -- one for each hit.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=27...&type=story
Beanpot
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