HOF Weekend
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ICYMI -- @Browns Helping Canton, @ProFootballHOF Bid For 2019, 2020 NFL Draft. . .
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Fletch should've retired a couple of seasons before he did.@boo-fagley said:
I did Dawg. Im definitely not a fan of the Ravens at all and not of Ray personally, but I have to respect his game.
Ray total games 228 - 31 INT- 81 PD - 19 fumbles - 41 sacks - 1502 tackles - 493 assists https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LewiRa00.htm
Fletch total game 256 - 23 INT - 87 PD - 19 fumbles - 39 sacks - 1380 tackles - 651 assists https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FletLo20.htm
Fletcher played in 28 more games than Ray. Ray did not start all but 1 game of his 228 total games.
If you ask me, Belichick had his eye on Ray next draft before Modell pulled the plug.
Take gander at these stats side by side. . .
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Except....Curly Lambeau was never the owner of the Packers...the community was and always has been.
and Rozelle was not an owner.
OK Mr Trivia Guru- technically- Lambeau was never the "owner" of the Packers- just the "founder\creator", which back then made him the owner- short of a $500 buck loan. You got any proof the team was always "owned" by the city of Green Bay? Seems like that would belong to the Indian Packing Company that fronted him the money, not the city.
Of course I knew Rozelle was never an owner- my point being- just because you're the NFL commish- that entitles you to a bust in Canton? There was a push to get Tagli-a-boo-boo in for the same reason. I'll puke if they try and nominate No-Good-ell.
OK Mr Trivia Guru- technically- Lambeau was never the "owner" of the Packers- just the "founder\creator", which back then made him the owner- short of a $500 buck loan. You got any proof the team was always "owned" by the city of Green Bay? Seems like that would belong to the Indian Packing Company that fronted him the money, not the city.
Of course I knew Rozelle was never an owner- my point being- just because you're the NFL commish- that entitles you to a bust in Canton? There was a push to get Tagli-a-boo-boo in for the same reason. I'll puke if they try and nominate No-Good-ell.
Proof that the Packers were always owned by the community? I suspect it is there in something as simply as wikipedia.
I mean, calling Lambeau the owner of the Packers would be like calling Paul Brown the owner of the Browns......He was the founder/creator of them.....but was never the owner. (He did own the Bengals however).
As for Commissioners being in the HOF.....I would have to check, but I suspect that nearly all former commissioners get in. Bert Bell...etc. Bud Selig was just inducted into the Baseball HOF. Tags WILL get in someday.....and you never know...Goodell may too. LOTS of people think he has been right on in his tough stance on things. I may be one of them.
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Clearly you needed more separation between "owner" and "Rozelle" than one paragraph...
Rozelle was the architect of the NFL "boom"... TV deals... the merger. He did more to put eyes on the game and $$$ in the owners pockets than any other individual. That's why he's in the HoF.
..
Pretty lousy criteria for getting in then. Same reason for Jerry. Make big $$$ for NFL, get into the HOF. That was the reason for trying to get Modell in too. He negotiated those big TV contracts. The merger would have happened with or without Rozelle just MHO.
In 30 or so years it won't matter. I'm betting soccer will take over as the #1 sport in the US, we'll just catch up with the rest of the world. Those millions of kids playing now say so. That $262 million for Neymar is a pretty good indication of the money in the sport.
Pretty lousy criteria for getting in then. Same reason for Jerry. Make big $$$ for NFL, get into the HOF. That was the reason for trying to get Modell in too. He negotiated those big TV contracts. The merger would have happened with or without Rozelle just MHO.
In 30 or so years it won't matter. I'm betting soccer will take over as the #1 sport in the US, we'll just catch up with the rest of the world. Those millions of kids playing now say so. That $262 million for Neymar is a pretty good indication of the money in the sport.
We better both hope to be dead by then....fair to say?
Though......listen to this, you will have heard it here first: Akron will get an MLS team......owner: LeBron James. (He is already part owner of the Liverpool team in the Premier League)
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@boo-fagley said:
Like Jerry Jones? Can someone explain why he is great?
Jason Taylor was solid, but great? No Super Bowls and kinda a choker in big games.
Saturday - 6 pro bowls, 1 Super Championship, undrafted. Can you write the story of the Manning era without Saturday? No, he was the Colts most notable O lineman.
Jerrah... as h pointed out, it's $$$ in owners pockets... same as Rozelle. Rightly or wrongly, Jerrah is seen as a major reason that franchise values have skyrocketed.
There is an 8-year stretch in the middle of Taylor's career where his impact was HoF worthy and on par with the best period of another Taylor's HoF career... but overall, no, I don't think of the two Taylors the same way... and has nothing to do with playoff success... or an OLB "choking". Not even sure how you determine that.
Saturday? You are giving him a lot of credit for Peyton's success... seemingly in contradiction to your over-weighting of the QB position.
I liked the player and enjoy his comments on ESPN, but IMO he's borderline HoF worthy. While OGs came and went with regularity during Jeff's time, the OTs were relatively constant and pretty damn good. Tarik Glenn was the LT for more than half Jeff's early career with Ryan Diem holding down the right side. Point being that Jeff was not alone. Both OTs were there for the team's lone SB win in the Manning era.
Class of '18's Steve Hutchinson... now there's a HoF no-brainer...
Jerrah... as h pointed out, it's $$$ in owners pockets... same as Rozelle. Rightly or wrongly, Jerrah is seen as a major reason that franchise values have skyrocketed.
There is an 8-year stretch in the middle of Taylor's career where his impact was HoF worthy and on par with the best period of another Taylor's HoF career... but overall, no, I don't think of the two Taylors the same way... and has nothing to do with playoff success... or an OLB "choking". Not even sure how you determine that.
Saturday? You are giving him a lot of credit for Peyton's success... seemingly in contradiction to your over-weighting of the QB position.
I liked the player and enjoy his comments on ESPN, but IMO he's borderline HoF worthy. While OGs came and went with regularity during Jeff's time, the OTs were relatively constant and pretty damn good. Tarik Glenn was the LT for more than half Jeff's early career with Ryan Diem holding down the right side. Point being that Jeff was not alone. Both OTs were there for the team's lone SB win in the Manning era.
Class of '18's Steve Hutchinson... now there's a HoF no-brainer...
Dick Butkus.....HOF LB....in fact, considered perhaps one of the 10 greatest players ever.....and I believe that he never played in a postseason game. So, there you go with the whole playoff success being mandatory for HOF consideration.
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Except....Curly Lambeau was never the owner of the Packers...the community was and always has been.
and Rozelle was not an owner.
I always liked Larry Lambeau better and definitely better than Moe Lambeau.
Actually little Green Bay is unlike any other professional for profit team in the USA in any major sport. Doubt if it will ever be replicated, not viable at all now.
I always liked Larry Lambeau better and definitely better than Moe Lambeau.
Actually little Green Bay is unlike any other professional for profit team in the USA in any major sport. Doubt if it will ever be replicated, not viable at all now.
Actually, I believe it certainly could be viable....but the leagues want no part of that sort of community ownership. They basically want greed motivated individuals to own teams (because it is all greed motivated individuals that own the other teams...and they only want their ilk in their club...but that does not mean it could not work.
FYI, in all his years here, Art Modell was only ever a 52% owner. Don't you think the Browns could have done just as well if no one owned 50% or more?
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I always liked Larry Lambeau better and definitely better than Moe Lambeau.
Actually little Green Bay is unlike any other professional for profit team in the USA in any major sport. Doubt if it will ever be replicated, not viable at all now.
Actually, I believe it certainly could be viable....but the leagues want no part of that sort of community ownership. They basically want greed motivated individuals to own teams (because it is all greed motivated individuals that own the other teams...and they only want their ilk in their club...but that does not mean it could not work.
FYI, in all his years here, Art Modell was only ever a 52% owner. Don't you think the Browns could have done just as well if no one owned 50% or more?
Actually, I believe it certainly could be viable....but the leagues want no part of that sort of community ownership. They basically want greed motivated individuals to own teams (because it is all greed motivated individuals that own the other teams...and they only want their ilk in their club...but that does not mean it could not work.
FYI, in all his years here, Art Modell was only ever a 52% owner. Don't you think the Browns could have done just as well if no one owned 50% or more?
So it's no way except maybe in soccer.
They're inducting Jerry and Jerry's World into the NFL HOF largely for his help in shaping the new NFL. (or the new billionaire's fun club, sorry everyone else)
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I would like to see the HOF install a Black HOF branch and an LGBT HOF branch.
I would like to see the HOF suffer the same king of bullshit that the rest of America has suffered due this kind of horseshit.
The Cleveland Browns have the hardest hit players in the NFL -
I would like to see the HOF install a Black HOF branch and an LGBT HOF branch.
I would like to see the HOF suffer the same king of bullshit that the rest of America has suffered due this kind of horseshit.
I would like to see the HOF install a Black HOF branch and an LGBT HOF branch.
I would like to see the HOF suffer the same king of bullshit that the rest of America has suffered due this kind of horseshit.
Will you be presenting for Caitlyn Jenner? 🥷
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
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@boo-fagley said:
According to the radio, Jerry spent 16 million on a HOF party for himself.
Saggy pants wannabe Justin Beeber did the music.
Oh puke Justin crybaby Beeeber are you kidding? We're Yanni and Kenny G. all booked up?
He at least could have tried to get Aerosmith or what's left of the Beatles maybe even Billy Ray Cyrus, Jerry I thought you had at least some class left.
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Jerrah... as h pointed out, it's $$$ in owners pockets... same as Rozelle. Rightly or wrongly, Jerrah is seen as a major reason that franchise values have skyrocketed.
There is an 8-year stretch in the middle of Taylor's career where his impact was HoF worthy and on par with the best period of another Taylor's HoF career... but overall, no, I don't think of the two Taylors the same way... and has nothing to do with playoff success... or an OLB "choking". Not even sure how you determine that.
Saturday? You are giving him a lot of credit for Peyton's success... seemingly in contradiction to your over-weighting of the QB position.
I liked the player and enjoy his comments on ESPN, but IMO he's borderline HoF worthy. While OGs came and went with regularity during Jeff's time, the OTs were relatively constant and pretty damn good. Tarik Glenn was the LT for more than half Jeff's early career with Ryan Diem holding down the right side. Point being that Jeff was not alone. Both OTs were there for the team's lone SB win in the Manning era.
Class of '18's Steve Hutchinson... now there's a HoF no-brainer...
Dick Butkus.....HOF LB....in fact, considered perhaps one of the 10 greatest players ever.....and I believe that he never played in a postseason game. So, there you go with the whole playoff success being mandatory for HOF consideration.
Timberlake's a showman with Big Band inclinations in his latest incarnation... both right up Jerrah's alley.
Meanwhile, "Jimmy 'Pulling His Own' Johnson didn't build shit," ranks among the most ignorant statements ever posted in this forum.
Dick Butkus.....HOF LB....in fact, considered perhaps one of the 10 greatest players ever.....and I believe that he never played in a postseason game. So, there you go with the whole playoff success being mandatory for HOF consideration.
Hmmmm... got me thinking...
Playoff success only seems to be a QB criteria... seems to be only mentioned in passing with every other position. And the degree to which it is emphasized for QBs seems to depend on how much it is needed to justify entry.
Closest thing to this QB phenomena would be HC.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Timberlake's a showman with Big Band inclinations in his latest incarnation... both right up Jerrah's alley.
Meanwhile, "Jimmy 'Pulling His Own' Johnson didn't build shit," ranks among the most ignorant statements ever posted in this forum.
Dick Butkus.....HOF LB....in fact, considered perhaps one of the 10 greatest players ever.....and I believe that he never played in a postseason game. So, there you go with the whole playoff success being mandatory for HOF consideration.
Hmmmm... got me thinking...
Playoff success only seems to be a QB criteria... seems to be only mentioned in passing with every other position. And the degree to which it is emphasized for QBs seems to depend on how much it is needed to justify entry.
Closest thing to this QB phenomena would be HC.
Timberlake's a showman with Big Band inclinations in his latest incarnation... both right up Jerrah's alley.
Meanwhile, "Jimmy 'Pulling His Own' Johnson didn't build shit," ranks among the most ignorant statements ever posted in this forum.
Hmmmm... got me thinking...
Playoff success only seems to be a QB criteria... seems to be only mentioned in passing with every other position. And the degree to which it is emphasized for QBs seems to depend on how much it is needed to justify entry.
Closest thing to this QB phenomena would be HC.
I think it makes total sense.. Like 3 heads of state that really and truly affects a team.. Owner, Coach and QB...
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I would like to see the HOF install a Black HOF branch and an LGBT HOF branch.
I would like to see the HOF suffer the same king of bullshit that the rest of America has suffered due this kind of horseshit.
I would like to see the HOF install a Black HOF branch and an LGBT HOF branch.
I would like to see the HOF suffer the same king of bullshit that the rest of America has suffered due this kind of horseshit.
Nothing says you can't start your own. Just form a non-profit corp., buy a building, acquire the paraphenalia, obtain a license from the NFL, appoint a nominating committee. etc. etc. and you could have one.
But on a more serious, relevant, realistic note: What if a fairly high profile NFL star came out and said: I'm Gay.....so what?
What would you do? What would fans do? What would players coaches, owners do?
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Timberlake's a showman with Big Band inclinations in his latest incarnation... both right up Jerrah's alley.
Meanwhile, "Jimmy 'Pulling His Own' Johnson didn't build shit," ranks among the most ignorant statements ever posted in this forum.
Dick Butkus.....HOF LB....in fact, considered perhaps one of the 10 greatest players ever.....and I believe that he never played in a postseason game. So, there you go with the whole playoff success being mandatory for HOF consideration.
Hmmmm... got me thinking...
Playoff success only seems to be a QB criteria... seems to be only mentioned in passing with every other position. And the degree to which it is emphasized for QBs seems to depend on how much it is needed to justify entry.
Closest thing to this QB phenomena would be HC.
Timberlake's a showman with Big Band inclinations in his latest incarnation... both right up Jerrah's alley.
Meanwhile, "Jimmy 'Pulling His Own' Johnson didn't build shit," ranks among the most ignorant statements ever posted in this forum.
Hmmmm... got me thinking...
Playoff success only seems to be a QB criteria... seems to be only mentioned in passing with every other position. And the degree to which it is emphasized for QBs seems to depend on how much it is needed to justify entry.
Closest thing to this QB phenomena would be HC.
True....a QB does have to be more outstanding to warrant HOF consideration...if he has no rings, than it seems that players at other positions do. Of course a few do make it without rings: In the SB era: Marino..Only 1 SB appearance., Fouts...none, Sonny Jurgenson,..none. Warren Moon...None., Fran Tarkenton never won but got to 3 SBs. Jim Kelly...none but 4 appearances. But I do count 14 others that did play in the SB era, and they have won SB rings.
Aikman
Elway,
Montana
Young
Warner
Bradshaw
Dawson
Griese
Stabler
Starr
Staubach
Unitas
Favre
Warner
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@boo-fagley said:
Joe Namath would not get in today IMO.
I believe for a QB to get in without a Super Bowl win he must have sustained greatness - Kelly, Marino, Fran, Fouts, Moon.
And OOPs, it looks like I left Namath out. But, Joe is in because he was the pivotal figure in one of the most seminal moments of football history.
(but note, some of his numbers are about on par with other HOF QBs of his era.....remember, back then a 1:1 TD to Int. ratio was about as good as could be expected...see the thread about 1978)
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@boo-fagley said:
Yup, Namath made the AFL a viable league. Plus, he was playing in the NYC market. At times there is East coast bias.
Yes, I am sure that helped.
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@boo-fagley said:
Yup, Namath made the AFL a viable league. Plus, he was playing in the NYC market. At times there is East coast bias.
Yes, I am sure that helped.
Yes, I am sure that helped.
Hell yes, some of the old AFL guys were crying when da' JETS beat the old established NFL team. Cemented his legacy right there! Too bad Namath wasn't 100% even going back to his Alabama years.
GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND!
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