Tashaun Gipson Hopes to "Hang 40" on Browns
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Jimmah and the FO are inseparable when it comes to spending... so yes, you are talking about the FO... which in addition to the Collins dice-roll has spent on:
- the Bito extension,
- Zeitler,
- Joe's raise... while he was already under contract...
- Tretter... bit of a pattern in these first four...
- McCourty and Taylor... there.. got off the OL.
Pretty sure I named every player who is not playing under rookie contract... which BTW are cheap contracts. How many picks have we made in the past 3 and 4 years? 30 and 40? Plus UDFAs?
And that's not to mention the $35mm (or was it 50?) or so he poured into stadium rennovations. Do you really think he lays out that kind of cash only to skimp on the product so the place is only half full by the end of Sept?
How 'bout the $16mm paid for a 2nd round pick?
The guaranteed money to get Bowe gone? The past couple staffs... The past couple GMs...
If you can ignore all that, then you are one tuff nut. But a nut with one more year, about 16 months actually, to decry Jimmah's financial commitment.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
So, the more I research this game, the more it looks like it COULD be closer to 40-0 than not. It's bad for us, no question about it. Why? Mainly because of the defensive scheme Jax runs, and the probable injuries of our two starting OT's. I know Hue said we might get Shon Coleman back, but I wouldn't bet on it. Additionally, Tretter popped up on the injury report with like three different injuries, so that's not good either. Jax doesn't blitz a lot. Instead, they consistently rush 4 and their DL runs a BUNCH of stunts and twists. This often confuses OL's and causes all kinds of trouble. If we had our starting OL, I'd feel a LITTLE bit better, but we're far from healthy right now, and it could be a VERY long day for our QB who is suffering from a painful rib injury. It's pretty much the worst matchup we could've hoped for after the injuries suffered in the Lions' game.
Making matters infinitely worse, Jax has talented LB's and DB's. Jalen Ramsey is giving up basically next to nothing this season, and he's a big, strong, athletic CB. Welcome back Corey Coleman. And since Jax doesn't blitz too much, you can bet there are going to be tons of people around the ball in the secondary. Those screen passes to Duke probably won't work, and I don't see the stupid WR screens working either. Right now, I'd probably bet money Kizer doesn't make it through the entire game healthy. He's going to get dropped over and over again.
Our big hope is that Bortles craps the sheets and gives us a few turnovers...maybe even a pick-6. Perhaps we can get a special teams play as well....we're certainly due for one. Bottom line, it's going to be a tough day.
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Well... Britt wasn't signed to be a WR1 was he? Wasn't paid WR1 money, was he?
Yes, he under performed at points in his career including this season to date... until DET, where he lit it up early.... That's the guy we thought we'd signed to be our #2 behind Coleman.
Misses aren't uncommon... even with FAs who have a longer track record. However, I can't recall a member here who did not see the disaster coming that was Dwayne Bowe.
And least we forget... Collins was not an FA signing. He was a "roll-the-dice-and-trade-for-a-player-in-a-contract-year" who saw what we were doing in Believeland and bought into it enough to extend and stay.
Not sure anyone gives our "dismal worthless" FO enough credit for that one.
Good discussion...
Not sure anyone gives our "dismal worthless" FO enough credit for that one.
Good discussion...
I think actually the FO deserves credit for their work in free agency. There have been many more hits than misses. Their draft picks are a bit of a different story however, at least to this point.
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So, the more I research this game, the more it looks like it COULD be closer to 40-0 than not. It's bad for us, no question about it. Why? Mainly because of the defensive scheme Jax runs, and the probable injuries of our two starting OT's. I know Hue said we might get Shon Coleman back, but I wouldn't bet on it. Additionally, Tretter popped up on the injury report with like three different injuries, so that's not good either. Jax doesn't blitz a lot. Instead, they consistently rush 4 and their DL runs a BUNCH of stunts and twists. This often confuses OL's and causes all kinds of trouble. If we had our starting OL, I'd feel a LITTLE bit better, but we're far from healthy right now, and it could be a VERY long day for our QB who is suffering from a painful rib injury. It's pretty much the worst matchup we could've hoped for after the injuries suffered in the Lions' game.
Making matters infinitely worse, Jax has talented LB's and DB's. Jalen Ramsey is giving up basically next to nothing this season, and he's a big, strong, athletic CB. Welcome back Corey Coleman. And since Jax doesn't blitz too much, you can bet there are going to be tons of people around the ball in the secondary. Those screen passes to Duke probably won't work, and I don't see the stupid WR screens working either. Right now, I'd probably bet money Kizer doesn't make it through the entire game healthy. He's going to get dropped over and over again.
Our big hope is that Bortles craps the sheets and gives us a few turnovers...maybe even a pick-6. Perhaps we can get a special teams play as well....we're certainly due for one. Bottom line, it's going to be a tough day.
So, the more I research this game, the more it looks like it COULD be closer to 40-0 than not.
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Not sure anyone gives our "dismal worthless" FO enough credit for that one.
Good discussion...
I think actually the FO deserves credit for their work in free agency. There have been many more hits than misses. Their draft picks are a bit of a different story however, at least to this point.
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Is Gip worth $35 million? How about Kenny Britt...is he worth $32 million?
Based upon Britt's 2017 performance? Well, that's a rhetorical question isn't it? Based upon his 2016 performance? Absolutely...
Can you say the same about Gip?
Games Def Interceptions Fumbles Sacks & Tackles Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Int Yds TD Lng PD FF Fmb FR Yds TD Sk Tkl Ast Sfty AV Career 75 67 18 430 2 67 30 1 1 1 0 0 223 92 27 4 yrs CLE 50 42 14 324 2 62 23 1 1 0 0 0 156 79 20 2 yrs JAX 25 25 4 106 0 67 7 0 0 1 0 0 67 13 7 2012 22 CLE fs 39 10 3 1 23 0 23 1 23 6 2 2013 23 CLE FS 39 16 15 5 143 1 44 12 63 31 6 2014* 24 CLE FS 39 11 11 6 158 1 62 8 1 0 0 0 0 28 24 8 2015 25 CLE FS/rcb 39 13 13 2 0 0 0 2 0 1 0 0 0 42 18 4 2016 26 JAX FS 39 16 16 1 30 0 30 2 34 7 7 2017 27 JAX FS 39 9 9 3 76 0 67 5 0 0 1 0 0 33 6 Based upon Britt's 2017 performance? Well, that's a rhetorical question isn't it? Based upon his 2016 performance? Absolutely...
Can you say the same about Gip?
We could talk about Britt’s 2013 season, you know the one where he caught a whopping 96 yards.
Or we can talk about Hue benching his azz this year...money well spent!
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2017/11/16/16667272/browns-activate-corey-coleman-but-say-goodbye-to-once-hyped-kasen-williams Our roster'd WR's are C.Coleman-R. Louis-S.Coats-B.Treggs-K.Britt-R.Higgins....Who here thinks Kasen Williams clears waivers than we get him on our PS? now bidding almost last in waiver wire claims.. Al Saunders please set-up to the pod em..we got a consensus question..
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https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2017/11/16/16667272/browns-activate-corey-coleman-but-say-goodbye-to-once-hyped-kasen-williams Our roster'd WR's are C.Coleman-R. Louis-S.Coats-B.Treggs-K.Britt-R.Higgins....Who here thinks Kasen Williams clears waivers than we get him on our PS? now bidding almost last in waiver wire claims.. Al Saunders please set-up to the pod em..we got a consensus question..
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Based upon Britt's 2017 performance? Well, that's a rhetorical question isn't it? Based upon his 2016 performance? Absolutely...
Can you say the same about Gip?
We could talk about Britt’s 2013 season, you know the one where he caught a whopping 96 yards.
Or we can talk about Hue benching his azz this year...money well spent!
We could talk about Britt’s 2013 season, you know the one where he caught a whopping 96 yards.
Or we can talk about Hue benching his azz this year...money well spent!
Way to hone in on the one season that's an anomaly in his career...
... and top it with an event after the decision. Hindsight is always impresses me.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
We could talk about Britt’s 2013 season, you know the one where he caught a whopping 96 yards.
Or we can talk about Hue benching his azz this year...money well spent!
Way to hone in on the one season that's an anomaly in his career...
... and top it with an event after the decision. Hindsight is always impresses me.
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Semi-silly perhaps... but just proves the naysyaers don't have a monopoly on hyperbole...
Peppers was also in my analysis, but then he's not really a FS either... is he?
And then there's the whole issue of Gip being worth his contract... an issue you deftly avoided.
Peppers is a non-factor due to where he plays, certainly no fault of his.
I would say overpaying a free agent is the norm in the NFL.
Is Gip worth $35 million? How about Kenny Britt...is he worth $32 million?
Peppers is a non-factor due to where he plays, certainly no fault of his.
I would say overpaying a free agent is the norm in the NFL.
Is Gip worth $35 million? How about Kenny Britt...is he worth $32 million?
I don't know about that Gip but our Gip is easily worth that in today's money.
It is shocking though what professional athletes get now, are they worth it? I remember just before the Indians caught fire the entire TEAM payroll was just over $8 million and future stars like A.Belle, Thome and Lofton making at or near the league minimum of $100,000......which is fabulous money even today for us working stiffs, more like a lottery hit.
Now I believe that NFL (or NCAA?) players deserve to be well compensated more than any other sport ue to the deviating injuries and possible very short careers but really Gip and Britt pulling that kind of cash, really?
And yes everything in life is relative like are Stallone and Swartenagger really worth $25 million for a few months work making a movie -BUT- are the ticket prices we stiffs pay also worth it, a family of 4 going to a pro football game Cost what now?
Sorry but it just rubs me wrong....occasionally that is unless I hit tonight's Mega Millions.
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42? I only got 37! Effin' yahoo FF...
I missed the game score by a whole 4 points... I was yelling for PTG to go for it up 20 late instead of kickin' a FG.
But for the LeBeau factor, they might have...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Jimmah and the FO are inseparable when it comes to spending... so yes, you are talking about the FO... which in addition to the Collins dice-roll has spent on:
- the Bito extension,
- Zeitler,
- Joe's raise... while he was already under contract...
- Tretter... bit of a pattern in these first four...
- McCourty and Taylor... there.. got off the OL.
Pretty sure I named every player who is not playing under rookie contract... which BTW are cheap contracts. How many picks have we made in the past 3 and 4 years? 30 and 40? Plus UDFAs?
And that's not to mention the $35mm (or was it 50?) or so he poured into stadium rennovations. Do you really think he lays out that kind of cash only to skimp on the product so the place is only half full by the end of Sept?
How 'bout the $16mm paid for a 2nd round pick?
The guaranteed money to get Bowe gone? The past couple staffs... The past couple GMs...
If you can ignore all that, then you are one tuff nut. But a nut with one more year, about 16 months actually, to decry Jimmah's financial commitment.
Jimmah and the FO are inseparable when it comes to spending... so yes, you are talking about the FO... which in addition to the Collins dice-roll has spent on:
- the Bito extension,
- Zeitler,
- Joe's raise... while he was already under contract...
- Tretter... bit of a pattern in these first four...
- McCourty and Taylor... there.. got off the OL.
I'm not saying this FO hasn't done good things, they have. I was referring to Jimmy even being below the Cap back in the farmer days. The stats I pulled out were from back before the beginning of the season. I liked the Collins move and beefing up to O-Line. I guess my point is I'd like to see us in the next 3 years be one of the teams that spends the most Cap room. I don't want to continue to draft 14 rookies every year for 5 more years because we just don't have enough space for them. I thought the Joe Thomas resigning was just a PR move to keep him from retiring.
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42? I only got 37! Effin' yahoo FF...
I missed the game score by a whole 4 points... I was yelling for PTG to go for it up 20 late instead of kickin' a FG.
But for the LeBeau factor, they might have...
42? I only got 37! Effin' yahoo FF...
I missed the game score by a whole 4 points... I was yelling for PTG to go for it up 20 late instead of kickin' a FG.
But for the LeBeau factor, they might have...
Well I think you can live with 37 in your reduced value FL......or mine is overvalued? Darn commissioners screwing with the values.
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well, I will be going to the Browns game vs the Jags, so I guarantee
a Browns win !
and that's a fact, Jag !
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Wrong again.
no you're wrong (again)
no you're wrong (again)
You’re right. My bad on that one. It was the right move though.
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no you're wrong (again)
You’re right. My bad on that one. It was the right move though.
You’re right. My bad on that one. It was the right move though.
Well you could argue Gipson wanted too much, which is an understandable argument. You could also argue that the Browns suck at resigning players we develop (past this FO and coach). You could also defend Sashi for the fact that we're a perennial loser, and it's hard to attract free agents if we're such a losing team in a cold climate. But, if we don't make any major signings this next offseason (I'm talking studs), and IF we're top 3 in cap leftover next season, It'll definitely raise a red flag to me that Jimmy is being a F#$%ing cheapskate. You can argue, "oh, he helped pay for the stadium", but he knows he'll get that money back, especially if he has $60 million per year in cap left over every single year.
Remember back in 2015 when Haslam said we wouldn't target free agents before the Sashi/Depo process and moneyball
Haslam said the reaction to the ticket price increase was as expected. He quipped that nobody calls to say thanks, and said he’s “probably the most sensitive person to raising ticket prices.”
yet Jimmy RAISED ticket prices back then.
My fight and argument is with Jimmy, because I think he's a shitty owner. I think the way he manages people sucks, and if he went with Hue over Sashi's head to get McCarron, then what does that tell you about him as an owner and a person.
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1) No cherrypicking. Either PFF grades are used to evaluate EVERYBODY AND EVERYTHING - or they're never used anywhere. Yes, this does include the overall evaluation of FO.
2) Even with PFF grades being used, the question isn't simply raw grade -- the question is the ratio of (dollars spent/performance).. eg, the marginal cost per point of skill.
spending more money usually results in getting better players. or you can keep ricardo louis and bryce treggs and go 1-24.
spending more money usually results in getting better players. or you can keep ricardo louis and bryce treggs and go 1-24.
1) Pryor wasn't and isn't worth anything close to the money he's making. Same can and has been said about Britt.
Every catch both Britt and Pryor have made in a game this year [not in practice - those guys are nifty without pads] can be made by louis or treggs. Record wouldn't be any different with the extra money on the roster.
spending more money does NOT translate to better outcomes.. it's money and other things... one factor is not the solution
2) You might want to look at the record and stats the Browns had when we had the most expensive defense in the league, oh so long ago.
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spending more money usually results in getting better players. or you can keep ricardo louis and bryce treggs and go 1-24.
1) Pryor wasn't and isn't worth anything close to the money he's making. Same can and has been said about Britt.
Every catch both Britt and Pryor have made in a game this year [not in practice - those guys are nifty without pads] can be made by louis or treggs. Record wouldn't be any different with the extra money on the roster.
spending more money does NOT translate to better outcomes.. it's money and other things... one factor is not the solution
2) You might want to look at the record and stats the Browns had when we had the most expensive defense in the league, oh so long ago.
1) Pryor wasn't and isn't worth anything close to the money he's making. Same can and has been said about Britt.
Every catch both Britt and Pryor have made in a game this year [not in practice - those guys are nifty without pads] can be made by louis or treggs. Record wouldn't be any different with the extra money on the roster.
spending more money does NOT translate to better outcomes.. it's money and other things... one factor is not the solution
2) You might want to look at the record and stats the Browns had when we had the most expensive defense in the league, oh so long ago.
1) Pryor isn't Julio Jones or AJ Green, is he? Quit trying to strawman my argument.
2) In 2015 the Browns had the 3rd most cap space available.
Since Haslam has been owner
2013 - Browns rank 6th in cap space available - $13,975,965
2014 - Browns rank 2nd in cap space available - $21,392,977
2015 - Browns rank 3rd in cap space available - $22,119,840
After moneyball starts
2016 - Browns rank 1st in cap space available - $46,108,169
2017 - Browns rank 1st in cap space available - $62,310,269
Has any other team consistently spent so little and been a great contender? Pettine wasn't lying about not having enough talent. People can blame Hue, Pettine, Farmer, Sashi, but the guy writing the checks is free of any blame? Jimmy said we'd be very competitive "in 2018 and 2019" verbatim. He's 20-69 as an owner, and raised ticket prices with this product. Mark my words.... IF We're in the top 3 of cap space left available the next three straight years, we will not be a playoff caliber team. Jimmy is the only thing toxic about this team.
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