Should we draft a quarterback 1st overall?

tiamat63

@the-gipper said:

Rudolph is big with a solid arm but little command, touch and rather slow. He just so happens to play at the same school in the same system.

Mayfield may not be Manziel off the field, he may be just a touch better than him on. The issue with both of them is what makes good QB's great - consistency. It isn't there.

There is also no 'default' position. As of the moment I type this the two QB's I like most are Rosen and Benkert.

Also to address the thread title. No, the Browns should not draft 'A' QB 1st overall. They should draft 'THE' QB 1st overall. If you have to sell yourself on someone being 'the guy', you might want to rethink your stance.

The Gipper

@tour2ma said:

Nothing...

But, in one week, he went from #1 QB, #1 overall....to #2 QB, #12 overall prospect on the CBS board:

RK	PLAYER	POS	POS RK	SCHOOL	CLASS	HT	WT
8	Lamar Jackson	QB	5	Louisville	Jr	6-3	200
12	Mason Rudolph	QB	2	Oklahoma State	Sr	6-5	230
21	Sam Darnold	QB	1	Southern California	Soph	6-4	225
26	Josh Rosen	QB	3	UCLA	Jr	6-4	220
49	Ryan Finley	QB	0	NC State	Jr	6-4	205
68	Baker Mayfield	QB	8	Oklahoma	Sr	6-1	218

But, I sure don't get the LamarJackson ascendance.

tiamat63

@the-gipper said:

But, in one week, he went from #1 QB, #1 overall....to #2 QB, #12 overall prospect on the CBS board:

RK PLAYER POS POS RK SCHOOL CLASS HT WT
8 Lamar Jackson QB 5 Louisville Jr 6-3 200
12 Mason Rudolph QB 2 Oklahoma State Sr 6-5 230
21 Sam Darnold QB 1 Southern California Soph 6-4 225
26 Josh Rosen QB 3 UCLA Jr 6-4 220
49 Ryan Finley QB 0 NC State Jr 6-4 205
68 Baker Mayfield QB 8 Oklahoma Sr 6-1 218

But, I sure don't get the LamarJackson ascendance.

"ATHLETIC, BRUH"

stillmotion

@the-gipper said:

But, in one week, he went from #1 QB, #1 overall....to #2 QB, #12 overall prospect on the CBS board:

RK PLAYER POS POS RK SCHOOL CLASS HT WT
8 Lamar Jackson QB 5 Louisville Jr 6-3 200
12 Mason Rudolph QB 2 Oklahoma State Sr 6-5 230
21 Sam Darnold QB 1 Southern California Soph 6-4 225
26 Josh Rosen QB 3 UCLA Jr 6-4 220
49 Ryan Finley QB 0 NC State Jr 6-4 205
68 Baker Mayfield QB 8 Oklahoma Sr 6-1 218

But, I sure don't get the LamarJackson ascendance.

The crotch grab is making Baker a sleeper now.

jiggins7919

I don't think it deserves its own thread, but I just saw an article with the headline of, "Browns would pick first and seventh as of today." As I'm sure most of us know, Houston managed to lose a close game to the Ravens last night. Savage did a nice job for most of the game trying to get the ball to Deandre Hopkins, who is quickly becoming one of the most unstoppable forces in the league (if he's not there already). He's literally impossible to cover 1 on 1, and he catches darn near everything. Despite this, Savage managed to cough the ball up a few times and the Ravens hung on. Each and every loss the Texans incur drastically improves our draft pick in both the first and second rounds. A quick glance at the Texans' remaining opponents reveals they play the Titans next, and then the 49's. I'm guessing they win one of their next five games, or two at the most. Bottom line, I think we'll be picking first and probably around 7 or 8 in the first round...very nice indeed. Ideally the Texans would lose out, but I don't see that happening. My absolute DREAM draft would be picking Rosen first, and then getting Derwin James with our next pick. Some will say that Peppers is too close to James, and they're probably right, but Derwin is an impact player and we NEED those, right? I don't see a WR worthy of a top 10 pick, do you guys? Anyways, the Texans lost last night, and that's a small bit of silver-lining for us.

Note: At one time I really wanted Saquon Barkely, but I've soured on him somewhat. I still think he's a great player, but I don't think he's in the same caliber of "bell cow" as a Todd Gurley or Leonard Fournette. Some people believe Alabama's WR Ridley is worthy of a top ten pick, but I'm not so sure. I'm not as fond of the smaller type WR's (ahem, Coleman), but if Ridley is adept at the slot, or if Coleman can be pushed there...I could see it working. More realistic is Alabama's top cornerback, Minkah Fitzpatrick. I believe he can play both corner AND safety, and THAT'S something I can get behind. (even I understand that having Derwin James and Peppers in the same secondary doesn't really work...just pisses me off that we drafted Peppers because I'd bet the farm Derwin James is actually going to make an impact)

TexasAg1969

That 53 yd. FG by Tucker won me the FF pool this week by 1 point over the guy who had Houston's D so it was a double win.

Keep on losing Texans!

There are several very good safeties this year. Get a WR with that Houston slot. Then trade up for a safety. Reverse the f'n process.

Nero

@jiggins7919 said:

I don't think it deserves its own thread, but I just saw an article with the headline of, "Browns would pick first and seventh as of today."

Well, maybe the thread named "Two picks in the Top Ten".

What are your thoughts on LSU RB Derrius Guice? In some mock drafts appeared landing in the Browns, though I imagine things will change a lot until April.

TexasAg1969

@nero said:

Well, maybe the thread named "Two picks in the Top Ten".

What are your thoughts on LSU RB Derrius Guice? In some mock drafts appeared landing in the Browns, though I imagine things will change a lot until April.

Better than anyone on the team.

PKU

New to the forum but my two cents...

the QB room has been awful and I would rather have too many options than go through another year like this year’s QB crop. That being said...

1. Need a vet - Whether they are enticed as a potential starter (see Matt Flynn, e.g McCarron, Tyrod) or bring in an old dog (McCown, Fitz) - we need an experienced QB in the room to mentor not only the QBs but also provide game day leadership. Our HC should NOT be providing that role, especially on game day.

2. Take a QB and high. I personally like Mayfield as I think he is accurate, throws receivers open, and goes through reads. I’m not worried about his size as he plays behind a 6’5” OL and has the fewest number of tipped balls of the top prospects (but I digress). take a QB high and sit him and develop him.

3. Keep Kizer, give him an off-season with the club and his WRs, let him grow.

Make these three battle it out in camp, vet or Kizer with the initial reps. If the rookie outshines both - that’s a win. We can’t ignore the QB room again

jiggins7919

@nero said:

Well, maybe the thread named "Two picks in the Top Ten".

What are your thoughts on LSU RB Derrius Guice? In some mock drafts appeared landing in the Browns, though I imagine things will change a lot until April.

To be honest, I don't know THAT much about him. Highlight reels are obviously misleading, but I can tell you there's a lot to like about the kid. He appears to have stellar vision and a "slippery" type of running style. Easily executes smooth "jump-cuts" and accelerates quickly. Not afraid of contact, and seems adept at running inside or out. Strong, sturdy frame with a near ideal build (5'11, 212 pounds). I've read some people compare him to a Frank Gore type of runner, but I think Guice has a bit more elusiveness. I'm not sure where he's slated to go in the draft, and obviously that will drastically change in the next 6 months, but the guy looks to be everything I would hope for. I'd love him on our team. Any chance he slides to second round? LOL. Also, I don't think he has a knack for fumbling either. As far as what he needs to work on...I'd say the usual "college stuff". Pass protection, pass catching, etc. I think he only has about 15 receptions this year for 100 yards or so. That could just be a function of LSU's offense, but I personally believe pass catching is the easiest aspect of RB to work on. Rookie RB's are notoriously poor at pass protection, and this is another aspect that is easily coached if the player has a nose for contact and the will to improve. Typically NFL teams won't play their RB's until they show the ability to protect the prized QB's.

Tour2ma

@jiggins7919 said:

... and then getting Derwin James with our next pick.

Again, have to ask... who has seen him lately? Has he fully comeback from his injury?

Tour2ma

@pku said:

New to the forum but my two cents...

the QB room has been awful and I would rather have too many options than go through another year like this year’s QB crop. That being said...

1. Need a vet - Whether they are enticed as a potential starter (see Matt Flynn, e.g McCarron, Tyrod) or bring in an old dog (McCown, Fitz) - we need an experienced QB in the room to mentor not only the QBs but also provide game day leadership. Our HC should NOT be providing that role, especially on game day.

2. Take a QB and high. I personally like Mayfield as I think he is accurate, throws receivers open, and goes through reads. I’m not worried about his size as he plays behind a 6’5” OL and has the fewest number of tipped balls of the top prospects (but I digress). take a QB high and sit him and develop him.

3. Keep Kizer, give him an off-season with the club and his WRs, let him grow.

Make these three battle it out in camp, vet or Kizer with the initial reps. If the rookie outshines both - that’s a win. We can’t ignore the QB room again

Well, first, the minimum for noobs is two-bits...

Second, welcome... similar thoughts here on the QB room, although the names change. I do disagree that we have "ignored" the QB room. I just see us not being convinced of the prospects with which we have been presented where they have been presented, e.g., moving up for Goff, turning down to firsts for Wentz, Trubs at #1 or moving up to get him after taking Myles. Adding Kessler and Kizer to the room the past two drafts weren't "nothing" moves.

Vets: I'd pass on the Tyrods and McCarrons of the league, QBs who definitely see themselves as starters, in favor of solid career backups. Looking thru the 2018 FAs as of now the candidates that jump out at me include Matt Moore (although I've a feeling the Fins will work to resign him), HOU's TJ Yates and maybe NOLA's Chase Daniels. I'd have zero issues with bringing back Josh McCown, but given the year he has had I can see him re-upping to start for the Jets one more year of play plus mentoring a draft pick there.

Draft: I'm a Rosen guy... through and through, but am open to a 2-QB draft with Benkert as the second choice in the first half of Day 2 the way it looks now. That would put the kibosh on signing a vet (assuming Kizer is the 3rd QB in the room), but with the right QB Coach and/or a full time OC, that's not a huge hole.

jiggins7919

@tour2ma said:

Again, have to ask... who has seen him lately? Has he fully comeback from his injury?

Oh yeah. Had a pick 6 two weeks ago, and he's been a nightmare all season. Although he's dropped two picks...he's still a monster and always near the ball. His injury wasn't as severe as an ACL, and he probably could've come back last year at some point, but they didn't figure it was worth it. He'll be a top 5 pick and his stock will skyrocket after the combine. He'll put up stupid numbers.

TexasAg1969

Here's my fear on this FO & HC. These idiots are going to take McCarron if he wins his UFA case and trade out of that position where they can easily take Rosen. That would be the ultimte Browns nightmare that would last for more years to come. I trust Hue on QBs about as far as I could toss him. The FO even less.

Dutch Oven

@texasag1969 said:

Here's my fear on this FO & HC. These idiots are going to take McCarron if he wins his UFA case and trade out of that position where they can easily take Rosen. That would be the ultimte Browns nightmare that would last for more years to come. I trust Hue on QBs about as far as I could toss him. The FO even less.

That's what I've been worried about if everyone makes it to Season 3, its that they would know they need to start showing results NOW, and in their mind relying on a rookie QB isn't the way for them to go. So they'd pass on another QB high in the draft, get McCarron instead, suck, and all get fired anyway.

Basically Butch Davis/Jeff Garcia/Ben Roethlisburger all over again.

Tour2ma

@texasag1969 said:

These ~~idiots~~ geniuses are going to take McCarron if he wins his UFA case

Hmmmm... might have to add AJ to my "vet presence" list.

McCarron-Kizer-Rosen... a QB room that works for me.

TexasAg1969

@tour2ma said:

Hmmmm... might have to add AJ to my "vet presence" list.

McCarron-Kizer-Rosen... a QB room that works for me.

"Vet" has to be a real stretch of the imagination on AJ Mr. Trump..............................er.......... Tour.

jiggins7919

@tour2ma said:

Hmmmm... might have to add AJ to my "vet presence" list.

McCarron-Kizer-Rosen... a QB room that works for me.

Yep, you've pretty much nailed it. There are a few problems with this strategy though. At the moment, McCarron is involved in a case with the league to become an unrestricted free agent. I don't know what the timeline is for something like that, but if he's granted FA status, I don't see him going to a team unless he's pretty much promised the starting role. Has he earned that? I don't think so, but I'm guessing that would be his mindset. Could he go to the Jaguars and be THEIR starter? I would argue he's better than Bortles right now. ESPECIALLY with that defense. How about the Bills or even the Giants? Jets? Broncos? My point is, I think McCarron will be looked at by some teams as their "starting QB", and right or wrong, he'll be somewhat promised the starting role.

I saw yet another article saying the best thing the Browns can do to fix the QB position is to pay Kirk Cousins big money. Personally, I don't see the Redskins letting him walk, and they'll either hammer out a deal or franchise him again for an absurd amount of money. However, if that DOESN'T happen, the Browns certainly have the cap space to offer a stupid level contract, and it's probably worth it. If that happens, bring back Pryor. Draft another WR. Draft a RB. It might be a pipe dream, but if you break the bank and get Cousins, Pryor, draft Darrius Guice at RB, and draft another WR, all of the sudden you might have a team. I refuse to add Josh Gordon to our list of 2018 weapons because we've learned he's fool's gold.

Tour2ma

I think Cousins is fool's gold... a/k/a made for us? He's just good enough to contend.

@texasag1969 said:

"Vet" has to be a real stretch of the imagination on AJ Mr. Trump..............................er.......... Tour.

Why? Finishing his 3rd year in the league... solid citizen... smart... hard-working... Hue would know whether his game prep is the example-worthy stuff.

Not saying he jumps to the top of the list, just an addition. But he does violate my "still sees himself as a starter" criteria.

calfoxwc

I'm not sold on Rosen at all:

http://www.walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2018jrosen.php

but he definitely needs to improve his vision for the NFL. UCLA has called a lot of primary-option quick-pass plays, so Rosen could use more reps taking deep drops and working through reads.

Like all college players, there are things that Rosen can improve on. For one, he could stand to get better with the consistency of his accuracy. There are times when Rosen gets into stretches where his accuracy is off and he can miss some throws he should complete. Rosen needs to get faster and speed up the process to scan through his progressions, too. In the pros, he is going to need to move his eyes more and not lock onto his primary read or one of the side of the field so much. The junior also needs to stay healthy in 2017 to avoid having serious durability concerns about him for the NFL.

One of the big problems for Rosen entering his junior year is that he has developed a reputation for having poor intangibles as a bad teammate and leader. Football is an emotional game, and NFL teams want their quarterbacks to be positive team leaders. Whether it is a vocal leader or a quiet lead-by-example type, NFL evaluators and coaches want the quarterback to be a player who teammates gravitate toward with the ability to lead his team in crunch time. Rosen is said to be disliked in the Bruins' locker room, and it sounds like he needs a personality make-over. A scout who has done advance work on the 2018 NFL Draft had this to say about Rosen:

"Right now I have them rated [Sam] Darnold, [Josh] Allen, [Lamar] Jackson, and then Rosen....Rosen has huge talent and lacks intangibles. He is a prototypical pocket guy. I love his talent, but his own teammates don't like him. Being a prick is one thing, but there aren't many quarterbacks who stick around long-term and are successful that couldn't get along well with their teammates."

Thus, Rosen has a lot riding on his junior year on the field and off of it.
Read more at http://www.walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2018jrosen.php#eOKQCFDTd5hOv4F2.99