It's confirmed ... Sashi Sucked
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I find it hard to blame project QB Kessler just because somebody other than Kessler decided to can Josh McCown, a journeyman but at least someone who could have held the reins until Kizer learned to ride.
I don't blame anybody for the Coleman pic because no amount of raid will keep away the injury bug if it wants to bite.
WSS
I find it hard to blame project QB Kessler just because somebody other than Kessler decided to can Josh McCown, a journeyman but at least someone who could have held the reins until Kizer learned to ride.
I don't blame anybody for the Coleman pic because no amount of raid will keep away the injury bug if it wants to bite.
Someone banned McCown? McC was simply told that he wasn't going to start for us in 2017. While I'm sure that was consistent with the FO's wishes, ultimately that's a coach's decision. Then came the offer to be the QB Coach, which McC declined.
I blamed Kessler? I blamed Hue for believing Kessler could be a functional QB1.
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I find it hard to blame project QB Kessler just because somebody other than Kessler decided to can Josh McCown, a journeyman but at least someone who could have held the reins until Kizer learned to ride.
I don't blame anybody for the Coleman pic because no amount of raid will keep away the injury bug if it wants to bite.
Someone banned McCown? McC was simply told that he wasn't going to start for us in 2017. While I'm sure that was consistent with the FO's wishes, ultimately that's a coach's decision. Then came the offer to be the QB Coach, which McC declined.
I blamed Kessler? I blamed Hue for believing Kessler could be a functional QB1.
Someone banned McCown? McC was simply told that he wasn't going to start for us in 2017. While I'm sure that was consistent with the FO's wishes, ultimately that's a coach's decision. Then came the offer to be the QB Coach, which McC declined.
I blamed Kessler? I blamed Hue for believing Kessler could be a functional QB1.
You said the primary fault lies with Kesler not Kizer.
Not sure what you mean by banned.
He was cut, right?
WSS
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Someone banned McCown? McC was simply told that he wasn't going to start for us in 2017. While I'm sure that was consistent with the FO's wishes, ultimately that's a coach's decision. Then came the offer to be the QB Coach, which McC declined.
I blamed Kessler? I blamed Hue for believing Kessler could be a functional QB1.
You said the primary fault lies with Kesler not Kizer.
Not sure what you mean by banned.
He was cut, right?
WSS
You said the primary fault lies with Kesler not Kizer.
Not sure what you mean by banned.
He was cut, right?
WSS
He was released.
Kessler was named the starter. Then he blew and Osweisler was named the starter. Then he blew and Kizer was named the starter. Then he blew and Hogan was named the starter. Then he blew and Kizer was named the starter. Then he blew some more.
Zombo
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You said the primary fault lies with Kesler not Kizer.
Not sure what you mean by banned.
He was cut, right?
WSS
He was released.
Kessler was named the starter. Then he blew and Osweisler was named the starter. Then he blew and Kizer was named the starter. Then he blew and Hogan was named the starter. Then he blew and Kizer was named the starter. Then he blew some more.
Zombo
Zombo said:
He was released.
Kessler was named the starter. Then he blew and Osweisler was named the starter. Then he blew and Kizer was named the starter. Then he blew and Hogan was named the starter. Then he blew and Kizer was named the starter. Then he blew some more.
Zombo
And Josh McCown won more games than the rest of them combined in 2017. That's my point.
WSS
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Zombo said:
He was released.
Kessler was named the starter. Then he blew and Osweisler was named the starter. Then he blew and Kizer was named the starter. Then he blew and Hogan was named the starter. Then he blew and Kizer was named the starter. Then he blew some more.
Zombo
And Josh McCown won more games than the rest of them combined in 2017. That's my point.
WSS
And Josh McCown won more games than the rest of them combined in 2017. That's my point.
WSS
Yes, he did.
He is better than all of them, no argument there.
He was also 1-10 in Cleveland and 38 years old, so you can't blame them for taking a shot on someone else that year. Gotta keep taking shots until you find your guy.
With Taylor and the #1 pick, we should be light years ahead of any recent QB rooms from the get go.
Zombo
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And Josh McCown won more games than the rest of them combined in 2017. That's my point.
WSS
Yes, he did.
He is better than all of them, no argument there.
He was also 1-10 in Cleveland and 38 years old, so you can't blame them for taking a shot on someone else that year. Gotta keep taking shots until you find your guy.
With Taylor and the #1 pick, we should be light years ahead of any recent QB rooms from the get go.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Yes, he did.
He is better than all of them, no argument there.
He was also 1-10 in Cleveland and 38 years old, so you can't blame them for taking a shot on someone else that year. Gotta keep taking shots until you find your guy.
With Taylor and the #1 pick, we should be light years ahead of any recent QB rooms from the get go.
Zombo
Again we're talking about 2017. By the way in 2017 1 + 10 looks pretty good in hindsight.
5 + 11 looks even better.
Of course at 5 and 11 we wouldn't have the number one pick.
WSS
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I don’t see the point in having kept McCown to increase wins by one or two. Failure is failure. The team was a failure from its GM to its HC to its QB, and Josh, as good as he can be, wasn’t going to win more than 1 or 2 games, either.
I don’t see the point in having kept McCown to increase wins by one or two. Failure is failure. The team was a failure from its GM to its HC to its QB, and Josh, as good as he can be, wasn’t going to win more than 1 or 2 games, either.
That's not really the point I'm trying to make. Just drawing the distinction of two plans of action for 2017. Aim for a modicum of respectability mentor Deshone Kizer or just tank the season for the number one pick.
No matter what the plan was the second scenario is what we got. Now it's time to do what we need to do going forward. That's it.
WSS
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I don’t see the point in having kept McCown to increase wins by one or two. Failure is failure. The team was a failure from its GM to its HC to its QB, and Josh, as good as he can be, wasn’t going to win more than 1 or 2 games, either.
That's not really the point I'm trying to make. Just drawing the distinction of two plans of action for 2017. Aim for a modicum of respectability mentor Deshone Kizer or just tank the season for the number one pick.
No matter what the plan was the second scenario is what we got. Now it's time to do what we need to do going forward. That's it.
WSS
That's not really the point I'm trying to make. Just drawing the distinction of two plans of action for 2017. Aim for a modicum of respectability mentor Deshone Kizer or just tank the season for the number one pick.
No matter what the plan was the second scenario is what we got. Now it's time to do what we need to do going forward. That's it.
WSS
I think probably the idea that Hue Jackson would be all Kizer needed was relied on too heavily when weighing whether to retain McCown.
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Zombo said:
Yes, he did.
He is better than all of them, no argument there.
He was also 1-10 in Cleveland and 38 years old, so you can't blame them for taking a shot on someone else that year. Gotta keep taking shots until you find your guy.
With Taylor and the #1 pick, we should be light years ahead of any recent QB rooms from the get go.
Zombo
Again we're talking about 2017. By the way in 2017 1 + 10 looks pretty good in hindsight.
5 + 11 looks even better.
Of course at 5 and 11 we wouldn't have the number one pick.
WSS
Again we're talking about 2017. By the way in 2017 1 + 10 looks pretty good in hindsight.
5 + 11 looks even better.
Of course at 5 and 11 we wouldn't have the number one pick.
WSS
Ya, I know we are talking about 2017, and I am a fan of McCown ... but I understand the process that led them to release him.
They figured they were going to take another shot at QB in the draft. And they had Kessler from the 3rd round the year before who had started half the season. So they let the 38 yo oft-injured McCown go and took a stab at Brock Osweiler (netting a second rounder in the meantime) to come in and be the "veteran" while the rookie got his feet wet. It didn't work out, because Oz was awful. And Kess was awful. And then the rookie turned out to be awful. Not good personnel decisions ... but they were taking a shot. I think the real criticism lies in who they drafted, and when they drafted him, and who they passed up in the draft ... not that they might have won three games with McCown and still be in the same boat this year anyway.
Zombo
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That's not really the point I'm trying to make. Just drawing the distinction of two plans of action for 2017. Aim for a modicum of respectability mentor Deshone Kizer or just tank the season for the number one pick.
No matter what the plan was the second scenario is what we got. Now it's time to do what we need to do going forward. That's it.
WSS
I think probably the idea that Hue Jackson would be all Kizer needed was relied on too heavily when weighing whether to retain McCown.
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McCarron always did suck - and always will. Sashi was correct to find anything, everything to deep-six that trade.
I don't want my job performance review based on opinions of people I have to fight -- because of course those people "Don't Like" someone who holds the line against them. Sashi was absolutely not working with these people... Sashi was entirely against them, as he should have been. Agents see Browns purely as leverage against other teams and as money trains for their clients who don't get offers from "The Good" teams.... period. Betcha if I ask 20 GM's regarding their opinion of Drew Rosenhaus that they'll unanimously hate Drew. So that means Drew sucks?
The "revelation" that Sashi was unanimously disliked by agents suggests to me that Sashi was in reality GOOD at his job.
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They are also NOT real fans. REAL Fans would not embarass, belittle, & make fun of their "alleged" team. That isn't support.
Just one old guy's opinion.
Mike
Those "fans" are cork soakers.
WSS
Either of you boys season ticket holders? Seeing as how it appears a good lot of the parade go-ers were - not sure it's entirely right to question "fanhood" here.
Either of you boys season ticket holders? Seeing as how it appears a good lot of the parade go-ers were - not sure it's entirely right to question "fanhood" here.
Season ticket holders aren't the only ones that pay money to watch the Browns T. Those of us that don't live in Ohio pay DirecTV to sustain their NFL Monopoly in order to watch Cleveland play all 16 weeks. And if people congregate at Browns Backers bars to watch - they usually pay for the meals and the beverages and tip the hotties waiting on them every Sunday. It all adds up. I read where NFL owners are actually getting significantly more revenue via the profit sharing from the television contract than they are bringing in from home attendance for whatever that's worth.
All that being the case, there's a difference between being frustrated with losing and shitting on this franchise because it's happening. Players, coaches and FO staff put so much time into their football careers that I can't imagine any of them being happy they went the 0-16 they will have to wear like a scarlet letter for the rest of their careers. I don't see as much wrong with fans sharing their frustration with the Browns as I do with them taking frustration out on the Browns. I think that parade was a very bad reflection of a VERY loyal, devoted and passionate fan base that has been here through thick and thin for whatever my 2 cents means.
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Either of you boys season ticket holders? Seeing as how it appears a good lot of the parade go-ers were - not sure it's entirely right to question "fanhood" here.
Season ticket holders aren't the only ones that pay money to watch the Browns T. Those of us that don't live in Ohio pay DirecTV to sustain their NFL Monopoly in order to watch Cleveland play all 16 weeks. And if people congregate at Browns Backers bars to watch - they usually pay for the meals and the beverages and tip the hotties waiting on them every Sunday. It all adds up. I read where NFL owners are actually getting significantly more revenue via the profit sharing from the television contract than they are bringing in from home attendance for whatever that's worth.
All that being the case, there's a difference between being frustrated with losing and shitting on this franchise because it's happening. Players, coaches and FO staff put so much time into their football careers that I can't imagine any of them being happy they went the 0-16 they will have to wear like a scarlet letter for the rest of their careers. I don't see as much wrong with fans sharing their frustration with the Browns as I do with them taking frustration out on the Browns. I think that parade was a very bad reflection of a VERY loyal, devoted and passionate fan base that has been here through thick and thin for whatever my 2 cents means.
Season ticket holders aren't the only ones that pay money to watch the Browns T. Those of us that don't live in Ohio pay DirecTV to sustain their NFL Monopoly in order to watch Cleveland play all 16 weeks. And if people congregate at Browns Backers bars to watch - they usually pay for the meals and the beverages and tip the hotties waiting on them every Sunday. It all adds up. I read where NFL owners are actually getting significantly more revenue via the profit sharing from the television contract than they are bringing in from home attendance for whatever that's worth.
All that being the case, there's a difference between being frustrated with losing and shitting on this franchise because it's happening. Players, coaches and FO staff put so much time into their football careers that I can't imagine any of them being happy they went the 0-16 they will have to wear like a scarlet letter for the rest of their careers. I don't see as much wrong with fans sharing their frustration with the Browns as I do with them taking frustration out on the Browns. I think that parade was a very bad reflection of a VERY loyal, devoted and passionate fan base that has been here through thick and thin for whatever my 2 cents means.
I look at it as a cleansing. The parade was the monument to 2 decades worth of frustration that, as opposed to crying, was really just a giant collective laugh at how bad this ownership has been. I don't think the fans were putting anything at the feet of the players. Maybe the coaches, and sometimes that is well deserved. Mostly, the collective vitriol is/was aimed at Haslam, of which he has earned more than his fair share.
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Again we're talking about 2017. By the way in 2017 1 + 10 looks pretty good in hindsight.
5 + 11 looks even better.
Of course at 5 and 11 we wouldn't have the number one pick.
WSS
Ya, I know we are talking about 2017, and I am a fan of McCown ... but I understand the process that led them to release him.
They figured they were going to take another shot at QB in the draft. And they had Kessler from the 3rd round the year before who had started half the season. So they let the 38 yo oft-injured McCown go and took a stab at Brock Osweiler (netting a second rounder in the meantime) to come in and be the "veteran" while the rookie got his feet wet. It didn't work out, because Oz was awful. And Kess was awful. And then the rookie turned out to be awful. Not good personnel decisions ... but they were taking a shot. I think the real criticism lies in who they drafted, and when they drafted him, and who they passed up in the draft ... not that they might have won three games with McCown and still be in the same boat this year anyway.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Ya, I know we are talking about 2017, and I am a fan of McCown ... but I understand the process that led them to release him.
They figured they were going to take another shot at QB in the draft. And they had Kessler from the 3rd round the year before who had started half the season. So they let the 38 yo oft-injured McCown go and took a stab at Brock Osweiler (netting a second rounder in the meantime) to come in and be the "veteran" while the rookie got his feet wet. It didn't work out, because Oz was awful. And Kess was awful. And then the rookie turned out to be awful. Not good personnel decisions ... but they were taking a shot. I think the real criticism lies in who they drafted, and when they drafted him, and who they passed up in the draft ... not that they might have won three games with McCown and still be in the same boat this year anyway.
Zombo
Thanks. I've been saying this for months.
Anyway, I think that 2017 being a poor QB class and as promising this 2018 class was at the time had something to do on taking a shot with Kizer in the second round instead of taking it with any other in the first round.
We don't know how good is Mahomes, Trubisky looks average to me and Watson played lights out... Only the 7 games he was available.
Yeah, Kizer sucked. But other teams which drafted QBs last year didn't end up with way better scenarios.
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Season ticket holders aren't the only ones that pay money to watch the Browns T. Those of us that don't live in Ohio pay DirecTV to sustain their NFL Monopoly in order to watch Cleveland play all 16 weeks. And if people congregate at Browns Backers bars to watch - they usually pay for the meals and the beverages and tip the hotties waiting on them every Sunday. It all adds up. I read where NFL owners are actually getting significantly more revenue via the profit sharing from the television contract than they are bringing in from home attendance for whatever that's worth.
All that being the case, there's a difference between being frustrated with losing and shitting on this franchise because it's happening. Players, coaches and FO staff put so much time into their football careers that I can't imagine any of them being happy they went the 0-16 they will have to wear like a scarlet letter for the rest of their careers. I don't see as much wrong with fans sharing their frustration with the Browns as I do with them taking frustration out on the Browns. I think that parade was a very bad reflection of a VERY loyal, devoted and passionate fan base that has been here through thick and thin for whatever my 2 cents means.
I look at it as a cleansing. The parade was the monument to 2 decades worth of frustration that, as opposed to crying, was really just a giant collective laugh at how bad this ownership has been. I don't think the fans were putting anything at the feet of the players. Maybe the coaches, and sometimes that is well deserved. Mostly, the collective vitriol is/was aimed at Haslam, of which he has earned more than his fair share.
I look at it as a cleansing.
I don't remember seeing it put that way before.
... and Watson played lights out... Only the 7 games he was available.
Agree with the general sentiment of your complete post, but is the above really the case? I think we romanticize "those that got away" more than a little.
Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV 2017 22 HOU qb 4 7 6 3-3-0 126 204 61.8 1699 19 9.3 8 3.9 72 8.3 8.4 13.5 242.7 103.0 81.5 19 116 7.10 7.19 8.5 0 0 7 -
Daryl RuiterVerified account @RuiterWrongFAN
Great graphic on
@nflnetwork showing#Browns have netted a lot of players & picks with all their trades the last few years
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Sashi had to go.
He guided the organization to one win and thirty one losses.
He had a quarterback starved team, for eons, with the #2 pick and Wentz to be available, and traded it away stating that they didn't think Wentz would be too good.
Well, you can do that, but you cannot be wrong. If that QB turns out to be good, and your QB's continue to suck such that you lose a lot (or always in our case), then you make the organization look like dopes. But had you TAKEN the QB, even if he failed you would've been seen as TRYING to fix the problem and just being unlucky.
He had to go.
Sashi had to go.
He guided the organization to one win and thirty one losses.
He had a quarterback starved team, for eons, with the #2 pick and Wentz to be available, and traded it away stating that they didn't think Wentz would be too good.
Well, you can do that, but you cannot be wrong. If that QB turns out to be good, and your QB's continue to suck such that you lose a lot (or always in our case), then you make the organization look like dopes. But had you TAKEN the QB, even if he failed you would've been seen as TRYING to fix the problem and just being unlucky.
He had to go.
No, Hue did that. Get it right.
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Zombo said:
Ya, I know we are talking about 2017, and I am a fan of McCown ... but I understand the process that led them to release him.
They figured they were going to take another shot at QB in the draft. And they had Kessler from the 3rd round the year before who had started half the season. So they let the 38 yo oft-injured McCown go and took a stab at Brock Osweiler (netting a second rounder in the meantime) to come in and be the "veteran" while the rookie got his feet wet. It didn't work out, because Oz was awful. And Kess was awful. And then the rookie turned out to be awful. Not good personnel decisions ... but they were taking a shot. I think the real criticism lies in who they drafted, and when they drafted him, and who they passed up in the draft ... not that they might have won three games with McCown and still be in the same boat this year anyway.
Zombo
Thanks. I've been saying this for months.
Anyway, I think that 2017 being a poor QB class and as promising this 2018 class was at the time had something to do on taking a shot with Kizer in the second round instead of taking it with any other in the first round.
We don't know how good is Mahomes, Trubisky looks average to me and Watson played lights out... Only the 7 games he was available.
Yeah, Kizer sucked. But other teams which drafted QBs last year didn't end up with way better scenarios.
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Those "fans" are cork soakers.
WSS
They are also NOT real fans. REAL Fans would not embarass, belittle, & make fun of their "alleged" team. That isn't support.
Just one old guy's opinion.
Mike
They are also NOT real fans. REAL Fans would not embarass, belittle, & make fun of their "alleged" team. That isn't support.
Just one old guy's opinion.
Mike
Any my opinion is that a REAL team wouldn't embarrass, humiliate, and make fans suffer for almost two decades of being the worst run franchise in professional sports.
Just a young guys opinion.
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