Jonathan Paul Manziel
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no. they had everything in place before wilson got there. it was plug and play.
ys, great coaching but if anything wilson added to seattle's O repertoire by being a steady game-managing QB with the ability to run to the sticks. i don't see them adjusting because of wilson.
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Nice find Diehard. I've been saying for some time, never count this kid out. He does not give up as easy as some fans do. He will give everything he's got to turn the team around. If he makes mistakes it will always be on the side of trying to do too much, unlike some who are there just to collect a paycheck. That's why Josh likes him so much. They are peas in a pod.
Nice find Diehard. I've been saying for some time, never count this kid out. He does not give up as easy as some fans do. He will give everything he's got to turn the team around. If he makes mistakes it will always be on the side of trying to do too much, unlike some who are there just to collect a paycheck. That's why Josh likes him so much. They are peas in a pod.
As I said elsewhere Ag, I didn't like what I saw last year out of JF, this year is a different story. He figured it out- you can't possibly be a top NFL quarterback and a party animal at the same time. 40 years ago that was a different story.
The plan is to make JFF something like Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers or Big Ben - pocket passer first, but with great ability to make things happen from broken plays, ability to pick up yardage with his legs at times, but not play 'turkey bowl' football like he had a tendency to in Texas.
At least, that's what I'd imagine, and seems to be their plan.
This Manziel is too small to be a pocket passer is bull. People here are saying Russell Wilson is a "pocket passer" and he's around an inch shorter than JF.
I just don't see him as an NFL QB.. He looks small and he plays even smaller.. He panics far too much and takes off with the ball far too often.. He hangs receivers out to dry and in a real bad way, where guys are gettin clobbered, as soon as they get the ball.. He relies too much on the hot reads and seldom leads a WR open. I feel he's more suited for 3rd down tail back.. thats My honest opinion.. some people dont like that.. But if were really being honest.. This kid has no business being an NFL QB.. Tail back?.. yes!
Regarding your comments about Manziel as a quarterback Nickers- that's what rookie quarterbacks tend to do. For all intents and purposes, this is Johnny's rookie year. Guys like Andrew Luck are a once in a decade occurrence. At least for now, I'm willing to give him more time to develop.
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Nice find Diehard. I've been saying for some time, never count this kid out. He does not give up as easy as some fans do. He will give everything he's got to turn the team around. If he makes mistakes it will always be on the side of trying to do too much, unlike some who are there just to collect a paycheck. That's why Josh likes him so much. They are peas in a pod.
As I said elsewhere Ag, I didn't like what I saw last year out of JF, this year is a different story. He figured it out- you can't possibly be a top NFL quarterback and a party animal at the same time. 40 years ago that was a different story.
The plan is to make JFF something like Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers or Big Ben - pocket passer first, but with great ability to make things happen from broken plays, ability to pick up yardage with his legs at times, but not play 'turkey bowl' football like he had a tendency to in Texas.
At least, that's what I'd imagine, and seems to be their plan.
This Manziel is too small to be a pocket passer is bull. People here are saying Russell Wilson is a "pocket passer" and he's around an inch shorter than JF.
I just don't see him as an NFL QB.. He looks small and he plays even smaller.. He panics far too much and takes off with the ball far too often.. He hangs receivers out to dry and in a real bad way, where guys are gettin clobbered, as soon as they get the ball.. He relies too much on the hot reads and seldom leads a WR open. I feel he's more suited for 3rd down tail back.. thats My honest opinion.. some people dont like that.. But if were really being honest.. This kid has no business being an NFL QB.. Tail back?.. yes!
Regarding your comments about Manziel as a quarterback Nickers- that's what rookie quarterbacks tend to do. For all intents and purposes, this is Johnny's rookie year. Guys like Andrew Luck are a once in a decade occurrence. At least for now, I'm willing to give him more time to develop.
This Manziel is too small to be a pocket passer is bull. People here are saying Russell Wilson is a "pocket passer" and he's around an inch shorter than JF.
Regarding your comments about Manziel as a quarterback Nickers- that's what rookie quarterbacks tend to do. For all intents and purposes, this is Johnny's rookie year. Guys like Andrew Luck are a once in a decade occurrence. At least for now, I'm willing to give him more time to develop.
Larry.. He struggles to see over his line.. I'm just not buying it with this kid..He's not even calculating like a Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers (players with a chess board mentality).. I'm just not seeing it from him.
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
This Manziel is too small to be a pocket passer is bull. People here are saying Russell Wilson is a "pocket passer" and he's around an inch shorter than JF.
Regarding your comments about Manziel as a quarterback Nickers- that's what rookie quarterbacks tend to do. For all intents and purposes, this is Johnny's rookie year. Guys like Andrew Luck are a once in a decade occurrence. At least for now, I'm willing to give him more time to develop.
Larry.. He struggles to see over his line.. I'm just not buying it with this kid..He's not even calculating like a Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers (players with a chess board mentality).. I'm just not seeing it from him.
Larry.. He struggles to see over his line.. I'm just not buying it with this kid..He's not even calculating like a Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers (players with a chess board mentality).. I'm just not seeing it from him.
LOL! And how long did Brees and Rodgers sit on the bench before they became starters? You do know Brees is now 36 years old, right? And why does the shorter Brees see over the lines better than the 1 inch taller JM? Sorry, not buying any of your logic on JM. He's a rookie with last year as given trash. You expect a 28-30 year old player out of a 22 year old. Not gonna happen overnight. Growing pains for a fan base extremely short on patience (understandably so). But JM is NOT responsible for all that has happened since the Browns came back home. He IS responsible for last year and all indications are he is not only owning up to it, but trying his best to become an asset to Cleveland. Start trying to find what he does right and how he improves from week to week.
There is a reason the term Monday morning quarterbacking came into being.
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Johnny fanboy here. Back for more.
Wilson and Manziel:
1. Obviously, these guys are totally different people, and I think Wilson's mindset and lifestyle made it easier for him to succeed early. Wilson coming out of college was relatively unknown (nationally) and probably still thought he had a lot to prove. Johnny was put on a pedestal and thought he could continue his partying ways and still "wreck" the NFL. He found out the hard way.
2. Wilson has always been a more risk-averse guy, stable, make a "good" play. Johnny has always been more of a risk-taker. He wants to make a "great" play. This almost cost him the starting job at A&M his Heisman season. He got better securing the ball, though, and went on to be the starter and win the Heisman.
3. Though roughly the same height, Wilson is much thicker and is a stronger runner. Johnny is probably a little more elusive, but I don't see him breaking many tackles when NFL players get their hands on him.
SOOOO....
I don't think Johnny will ever play much like Wilson. This does not mean he can't be successful, but he needs a lot of work. Last Sunday was his 4th game of action, not much to go on. I've always thought he resembled a Jeff Garcia type, and would love it if he reaches that success level, but it took Garcia many years to get to that level.
I continue to hold out hope he will figure it out and succeed. If he could just get that first win, I think it would change things immensely. Confidence is/was a big part of his game, and he has little to none right now.
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Larry.. He struggles to see over his line.. I'm just not buying it with this kid..He's not even calculating like a Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers (players with a chess board mentality).. I'm just not seeing it from him.
LOL! And how long did Brees and Rodgers sit on the bench before they became starters? You do know Brees is now 36 years old, right? And why does the shorter Brees see over the lines better than the 1 inch taller JM? Sorry, not buying any of your logic on JM. He's a rookie with last year as given trash. You expect a 28-30 year old player out of a 22 year old. Not gonna happen overnight. Growing pains for a fan base extremely short on patience (understandably so). But JM is NOT responsible for all that has happened since the Browns came back home. He IS responsible for last year and all indications are he is not only owning up to it, but trying his best to become an asset to Cleveland. Start trying to find what he does right and how he improves from week to week.
There is a reason the term Monday morning quarterbacking came into being.
LOL! And how long did Brees and Rodgers sit on the bench before they became starters? You do know Brees is now 36 years old, right? And why does the shorter Brees see over the lines better than the 1 inch taller JM? Sorry, not buying any of your logic on JM. He's a rookie with last year as given trash. You expect a 28-30 year old player out of a 22 year old. Not gonna happen overnight. Growing pains for a fan base extremely short on patience (understandably so). But JM is NOT responsible for all that has happened since the Browns came back home. He IS responsible for last year and all indications are he is not only owning up to it, but trying his best to become an asset to Cleveland. Start trying to find what he does right and how he improves from week to week.
There is a reason the term Monday morning quarterbacking came into being.
you can go back to texas .. He blows dognutz
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LOL! And how long did Brees and Rodgers sit on the bench before they became starters? You do know Brees is now 36 years old, right? And why does the shorter Brees see over the lines better than the 1 inch taller JM? Sorry, not buying any of your logic on JM. He's a rookie with last year as given trash. You expect a 28-30 year old player out of a 22 year old. Not gonna happen overnight. Growing pains for a fan base extremely short on patience (understandably so). But JM is NOT responsible for all that has happened since the Browns came back home. He IS responsible for last year and all indications are he is not only owning up to it, but trying his best to become an asset to Cleveland. Start trying to find what he does right and how he improves from week to week.
There is a reason the term Monday morning quarterbacking came into being.
you can go back to texas .. He blows dognutz
you can go back to texas .. He blows dognutz
There are some really good arguers here. Then there are those who compose posts like this.
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What's the difference if they are going to run an entirely different offense when he's in?
And he most certainly wasn't ready to start after sitting out the entire preseason.
I'll watch for the "different offense", Steve, but I do not think it is the case. The use of the Pistol appears with JM in, but that does not mean the play calls change. I'll add that IMO the Pistol reduces the effectiveness of Play Action which should be an integral part of our offense.
Entire pre-season? He played in good chunks of games one and two. One pre-season game is what effectively what would have been added had his elbow not flared up. That would not have made an appreciable difference in his readiness to start the season.
I'll watch for the "different offense", Steve, but I do not think it is the case. The use of the Pistol appears with JM in, but that does not mean the play calls change. I'll add that IMO the Pistol reduces the effectiveness of Play Action which should be an integral part of our offense.
Entire pre-season? He played in good chunks of games one and two. One pre-season game is what effectively what would have been added had his elbow not flared up. That would not have made an appreciable difference in his readiness to start the season.
Well then chunks in the first two completely meaningless preseason games with the future UPS delivery men should be more than enough. I stand corrected. More than enough to earn a few weeks off.
WSS
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Touche'...
As for the further above...
Agree, war, not all comments are created equal...
Agree... JM does not have the same mindset as Wilson, but he needs to and I think he's moving in that direction thanks to McCown.
Drew Brees may be the best "short" QB ever. He overcomes his height liability by slipping around in the pocket to find sight lanes that become throwing lanes. Also helps that he looks for clues as to the coverage rather than surveys the field for open WRs. JM is nowhere near there... yet... but is showing signs of moving in that direction.
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When we drafted Manziel I read many sports articles comparing him to Russell Wilson. Then he had his disastrous rookie season with many of his self inflicted problems. For me it's is not that he had a super great game Sunday against the Jets (he didn't) but for the first time I saw the potential he has of being a Wilson type quarterback. I read where former NFL quarterback Roger Staubach said Manziel had Wilson type capabilities (IF) he got his life turned around:
“If he really truly gets his life back on track, his talent is Russell Wilson-type talent,” Staubach told USA Today‘s Jim Corbett. “So size isn’t the overwhelming issue for him when you have Russell and Drew Brees winning Super Bowls at the same size.”
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This Manziel is too small to be a pocket passer is bull. People here are saying Russell Wilson is a "pocket passer" and he's around an inch shorter than JF.
Regarding your comments about Manziel as a quarterback Nickers- that's what rookie quarterbacks tend to do. For all intents and purposes, this is Johnny's rookie year. Guys like Andrew Luck are a once in a decade occurrence. At least for now, I'm willing to give him more time to develop.
Larry.. He struggles to see over his line.. I'm just not buying it with this kid..He's not even calculating like a Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers (players with a chess board mentality).. I'm just not seeing it from him.
Larry.. He struggles to see over his line.. I'm just not buying it with this kid..He's not even calculating like a Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers (players with a chess board mentality).. I'm just not seeing it from him.
Ag beat me to it- Brees is exactly the same height- look it up if you doubt us. If JM learns how to use sight lanes, as Tour suggested- he'll be fine. BTW, Brian Sipe was one inch taller than Manziel- if you think that makes a difference, I'd say not. The difference this year is Manziel figured he has to be "all in". on learning how to be a pro quarterback- or he's going to be out the door- fast.
you can go back to texas .. He blows dognutz
Everyone is entitled to their opinion here.
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Larry.. He struggles to see over his line.. I'm just not buying it with this kid..He's not even calculating like a Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers (players with a chess board mentality).. I'm just not seeing it from him.
Ag beat me to it- Brees is exactly the same height- look it up if you doubt us. If JM learns how to use sight lanes, as Tour suggested- he'll be fine. BTW, Brian Sipe was one inch taller than Manziel- if you think that makes a difference, I'd say not. The difference this year is Manziel figured he has to be "all in". on learning how to be a pro quarterback- or he's going to be out the door- fast.
you can go back to texas .. He blows dognutz
Everyone is entitled to their opinion here.
Ag beat me to it- Brees is exactly the same height- look it up if you doubt us. If JM learns how to use sight lanes, as Tour suggested- he'll be fine. BTW, Brian Sipe was one inch taller than Manziel- if you think that makes a difference, I'd say not. The difference this year is Manziel figured he has to be "all in". on learning how to be a pro quarterback- or he's going to be out the door- fast.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion here.
However if you can't back up your comment (nickers), you can always resort to, "Well, oh yeah asswipe?" or something similar like "you can go back to texas .. He blows dognutz." Works well in Jr. High.
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Of course Seattle have had to tailor their offense to fit Wilson, been doing it since he joined, they are brilliantly coached.
Of course Seattle have had to tailor their offense to fit Wilson, been doing it since he joined, they are brilliantly coached.
Really? Other than the fake reads and occasional option, what else has changed? Still a power run team that builds to boot action and high YPC.
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I like that some people are accepting Manziel might not have been as bad as they original thought, or at least willing to give him a chance. I'm hopeful from what I've seen so far this offseason up to now.
For the most part he gets the ball out quickly, and has the arm... I have no concerns about that.
Ball security, pocket awareness, and knowing when to live to fight another day are big steps he needs to take.
That isn't to say he doesn't throw the ball from the pocket effectively, because he did that against the Jets. His 3-step drop and pop was really good (TD to Benjamin was out quick, and thrown well before Benjamin burnt Cromartie), with exception to the INT that he missed/Marcus Williams boxed Hartline out on. I wrote something about his Week 1 game on my site, and it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows.
Minimizing turnovers against Dick LeBeau's protege Titans D will be a tall task. If he plays, we'll see how he handles it.
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I think any Wilson comparison was a poor one for Johnny coming out of college. Wilson was in a pro system in college and, as some have said, was very conservative.
I'm not sure if his best option was to try to become Wilson, or to play in a wide open offense like Chip Kelly's, similar to the ones he always has. But in our offense, he either has to do the former (though a different degree of success would be tolerable), or he's going to fail. Simple as that, I think.
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Shocker here we are page 4(nailed it) of 72. Yes Drew Brees and R. Wilson have proven one thing that JM can't prove yet but don't give up hope with him now serious about NFL football. It's called passing windows between the lineman that a short QB must learn to get threw the window with accuracy on the pass to his receiver to make a short QB a good Pocket passer in this league. Watch Brees. see ya next chapter. It's not easy and time will tell..
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends -
Johnny Manziel's ceiling is Doug Flutie
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Shocker here we are page 4(nailed it) of 72. Yes Drew Brees and R. Wilson have proven one thing that JM can't prove yet but don't give up hope with him now serious about NFL football. It's called passing windows between the lineman that a short QB must learn to get threw the window with accuracy on the pass to his receiver to make a short QB a good Pocket passer in this league. Watch Brees. see ya next chapter. It's not easy and time will tell..
Shocker here we are page 4(nailed it) of 72. Yes Drew Brees and R. Wilson have proven one thing that JM can't prove yet but don't give up hope with him now serious about NFL football. It's called passing windows between the lineman that a short QB must learn to get threw the window with accuracy on the pass to his receiver to make a short QB a good Pocket passer in this league. Watch Brees. see ya next chapter. It's not easy and time will tell..
Perhaps its also worth noting that another reason Breesy and Wilson can play from the pocket and utilize these windows is that they have a nice, high release. Very prototypical of an NFL QB. Johnny's is a 3/4 and that makes a TON of difference.
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Manziel needs time to learn and stay patient. The college game is churning out these mobile quarterbacks and most of them will never succeed. It's a win now business. RG3 is perfect example, can't stay healthy. Mariota may be an exception. He looked poised and didn't take off running at the first sign of pressure. That's what Manziel has to do. Study film and learn.
If Manziel starts the rest of the season and stays healthy he has a chance. Albeit slim. I had more hopes for him and the Browns after the draft when everyone was talking about our OLINE.
If anything, I was hoping the Browns would suddenly morph into the Seahawks with defense and run game.
Old Browns Fan brings up a point that has nagged many of us. What was their plan for Manziel? A barely 6ft QB who's mobile and no big wide receiver was drafted. Mike Evans was right there if they were hell bent on JFF.
I am getting old too and have seen decades of this head scratching franchise.
Remember, I was a kid when they traded Paul Warfield, benched Brian Sipe for Paul McDonald, drafted Mike Junkin. After 50 years it's hard to be an eternal optimist yet I still root root for the Browns.
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Manziel needs time to learn and stay patient. The college game is churning out these mobile quarterbacks and most of them will never succeed. It's a win now business. RG3 is perfect example, can't stay healthy. Mariota may be an exception. He looked poised and didn't take off running at the first sign of pressure. That's what Manziel has to do. Study film and learn.
If Manziel starts the rest of the season and stays healthy he has a chance. Albeit slim. I had more hopes for him and the Browns after the draft when everyone was talking about our OLINE.
If anything, I was hoping the Browns would suddenly morph into the Seahawks with defense and run game.
Old Browns Fan brings up a point that has nagged many of us. What was their plan for Manziel? A barely 6ft QB who's mobile and no big wide receiver was drafted. Mike Evans was right there if they were hell bent on JFF.
I am getting old too and have seen decades of this head scratching franchise.
Remember, I was a kid when they traded Paul Warfield, benched Brian Sipe for Paul McDonald, drafted Mike Junkin. After 50 years it's hard to be an eternal optimist yet I still root root for the Browns.
Manziel needs time to learn and stay patient. The college game is churning out these mobile quarterbacks and most of them will never succeed. It's a win now business. RG3 is perfect example, can't stay healthy. Mariota may be an exception. He looked poised and didn't take off running at the first sign of pressure. That's what Manziel has to do. Study film and learn.
If Manziel starts the rest of the season and stays healthy he has a chance. Albeit slim. I had more hopes for him and the Browns after the draft when everyone was talking about our OLINE.
If anything, I was hoping the Browns would suddenly morph into the Seahawks with defense and run game.
Old Browns Fan brings up a point that has nagged many of us. What was their plan for Manziel? A barely 6ft QB who's mobile and no big wide receiver was drafted. Mike Evans was right there if they were hell bent on JFF.
I am getting old too and have seen decades of this head scratching franchise.
Remember, I was a kid when they traded Paul Warfield, benched Brian Sipe for Paul McDonald, drafted Mike Junkin. After 50 years it's hard to be an eternal optimist yet I still root root for the Browns.
yeah so you're my age.
thing with any rookie QB or any rookie period in this day and age is people don't have patience. hell, same with coaches.
we want andrew luck, matt ryan and eli. the quintessential prototypical NFL QB without any excuses of 'has to sit and learn'.
i think manziel is going in the right direction. just don't want to be saying the same thing 3 years from now.
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