Inside the Browns front office, ESPN
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I am not sure why all the Sashi love. The only thing I will give him credit for is sticking to his "plan". The problem with this was there was no flexibility in his plan. So if you come across a franchise QB you might pick him earlier than the plan says because those guys are hard to find. It was just stupid to trade down out of the two spot. I get it, you are tearing things down and want draft picks, well a franchise QB trumps multiple picks. I don't think Sashi could have picked any better player than I could have or most of us during his tenure and to me thats a problem. If us guys on a message board can't many any worse picks then the GM then thats a problem. Dorsey proved in one draft how much better of a talent evaluator he is. Sashi is a nice guy, but I thought he was a terrible GM.
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I am and always will be a believer that Sashi Brown got screwed in this whole thing. Don't get me wrong. John Dorsey is absolutely, 100% the right guy to run this team moving forward. However, this was all part of Sashi's plan to burn it to the ground, acquire picks, have very creative and well crafted contracts, and then build it back-up. Yes, they did not select the qb's above, but that was never in the cards. The long game was to acquire assets for the future. IMOP, Trubisky is WAAAAY overrated and should have never been a pro bowler, watson is very good but still struggles in the pocket and mahomes...yeah, he's special and there is nothing bad to say about him. Sashi brown never got the chance to fully execute his plan, and I personally, think that he should get more credit than he does. Dorsey has done a great job, but Sashi absolutely laid the groundwork. Haslam panicked as he does time and time again and never gave the full plan a chance. The browns failures are on Haslam alone for being a terrible owner and not listening to the smarter people in the game. This article painfully paints this picture. One only hopes Haslam actually read the article and had a come to Jesus meeting. Once again, Dorsey is the right man for the job and I have zero qualms about that...but just imagine what him and Sashi brown could have done together.
Damn you're smart...
Same sentiments here, but even I never had the thought in bold cross my mind. Even as big as I fear JD's ego is, Sashi just might have made their relationship work.
1.) John Dorsey has added 4 players on roster by attaching draft picks. 2.) JD has traded 9 players adding draft picks. 3.) JD moved up once, & down once, last draft moving picks. 4.)Combining JD's time here & KC he has traded with 49'ers 5 times, 3 times with Zona & Bills, Twice with Jags & GB. Once with TB,Mia.,Skins & Car..They all sit above us at #17. 5.) Other teams that JD has build trading business with? Pats. 3 times, Vikings twice. Once TB,Dallas & Seattle. Most of these teams GM's are still around...We own 2 3th & 3 5th round picks...I'd expect more wheelin & dealing in the coming months.. set over/under of browns draft picks at draft of maybe 7 or 8?
Good stuff here...
NFL GMs make up a small club where relationships are very important. His failure to grasp that was one of Sashi's flaws... quite possibly his biggest. I remember reports that other GMs began to dislike him because he tried to "win" every deal. Dorsey seems to have a "win-win" mentality that builds these relationships. Some of their difference is likely attributable to their differing levels of security in their jobs.
There's some truth to this, but there's also the truth that one of his two drafts were pretty much a huge swing and a miss. (Sashi's second is looking much better.) The 2016 Draft was, sans Joe Schobert, mediocre to horrible.
The problem is, a complete rebuild sounds great in theory, but a lot of times the guys who endure it do not get to stick around to reap the benefits. That's a big reason the Browns struggled to fill the head coach gig when they started in 1999. Brian Billick is on record saying he didn't want to do all the hard work of working with an expansion team to only get fired and have it given to someone else.
As I've said before allowances have to made for Sashi's first draft. There simply was not time to implement the revolutionary new FO approach Jimmah signed up for. Even at that you overlook Ogbah, Kindred, DeValve and, last but not least, Higgins, who finally showed his promise in 2018. Your oversights may not boost our 2016 Draft dramatically, but are more than enough to take "horrible" off the table with "good" in its place.
Billick was prescient wasn't he? From the outside he saw Jimmah's end game... ending a four-year plan after two years. I can practically hear Jimmah when he fired Sashi, "What can I say Sash... you fucked up... you trusted me."
I've said before allowances have to made for Sashi's first draft. There simply was not time to implement the revolutionary new FO approach Jimmah signed up for. Even at that you overlook Ogbah, Kindred, DeValve and, last but not least, Higgins, who finally showed his promise in 2018. Your oversights may not boost our 2016 Draft dramatically, but are more than enough to take "horrible" off the table with "good" in its place.
The 2016 Browns draft was "good".
Yeah, I'm not even touching that.
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I am not sure why all the Sashi love. The only thing I will give him credit for is sticking to his "plan". The problem with this was there was no flexibility in his plan. So if you come across a franchise QB you might pick him earlier than the plan says because those guys are hard to find. It was just stupid to trade down out of the two spot. I get it, you are tearing things down and want draft picks, well a franchise QB trumps multiple picks. I don't think Sashi could have picked any better player than I could have or most of us during his tenure and to me thats a problem. If us guys on a message board can't many any worse picks then the GM then thats a problem. Dorsey proved in one draft how much better of a talent evaluator he is. Sashi is a nice guy, but I thought he was a terrible GM.
I am not sure why all the Sashi love. The only thing I will give him credit for is sticking to his "plan". The problem with this was there was no flexibility in his plan. So if you come across a franchise QB you might pick him earlier than the plan says because those guys are hard to find. It was just stupid to trade down out of the two spot. I get it, you are tearing things down and want draft picks, well a franchise QB trumps multiple picks. I don't think Sashi could have picked any better player than I could have or most of us during his tenure and to me thats a problem. If us guys on a message board can't many any worse picks then the GM then thats a problem. Dorsey proved in one draft how much better of a talent evaluator he is. Sashi is a nice guy, but I thought he was a terrible GM.
How many times have we seen teams give up multiple picks, moving up to draft their potential franchise QB. The Rams did it for Goff, and the Chiefs for Mahomes? The Browns made moving up for a QB only to see him bust an art form- Johnny Football and Brady Quinn come to mind.
The 2016 Browns draft was "good".
Yeah, I'm not even touching that.
I'll give that draft a "C" mabe a "C-" average to below average at best. Considering first round pick Stonehands Coleman is barely hanging on with the Giants, and half the guys they drafted (quantity is better than quality mentality) aren't even on the team anymore, and a few are out of the league.
Compare that to Dorsey's 5 starters, a rookie who made the Bro Bowl, and the guy who should (but probably won't) win the OROTY. A+ there maybe?
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I stand by my statement. Thanks for proving my point.
Sashi Brown (born May 15, 1976) is an American attorney and former executive for the Cleveland Browns. He was the Executive Vice President of football operations for the Cleveland Browns of the National Football League from January 3, 2016, until his firing on December 7, 2017.
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I stand by my statement. Thanks for proving my point.
Sashi Brown (born May 15, 1976) is an American attorney and former executive for the Cleveland Browns. He was the Executive Vice President of football operations for the Cleveland Browns of the National Football League from January 3, 2016, until his firing on December 7, 2017.
Sashi Brown (born May 15, 1976) is an American attorney and former executive for the Cleveland Browns. He was the Executive Vice President of football operations for the Cleveland Browns of the National Football League from January 3, 2016, until his firing on December 7, 2017.
Yeah- Sashi proved being a Harvard lawyer doesn't necessarily make you a good football executive... As Jimmy Haslam found out- "If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit." Sashi may well have been a master of both...
I stand by my statement. Thanks for proving my point.
Regarding Sashi and "consensus". I have no proof of this, but MHO is- when there was no consensus, he picked the wrong guy... aided and abetted by Depodesta... From what we know of Dorsey picking Kitchens as Head Coach over what's-his-name (favored by you know who), hindsight tells me Depodesta's fingerprints are all over the 2016 draft....
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Sashi Brown (born May 15, 1976) is an American attorney and former executive for the Cleveland Browns. He was the Executive Vice President of football operations for the Cleveland Browns of the National Football League from January 3, 2016, until his firing on December 7, 2017.
Yeah- Sashi proved being a Harvard lawyer doesn't necessarily make you a good football executive... As Jimmy Haslam found out- "If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit." Sashi may well have been a master of both...
I stand by my statement. Thanks for proving my point.
Regarding Sashi and "consensus". I have no proof of this, but MHO is- when there was no consensus, he picked the wrong guy... aided and abetted by Depodesta... From what we know of Dorsey picking Kitchens as Head Coach over what's-his-name (favored by you know who), hindsight tells me Depodesta's fingerprints are all over the 2016 draft....
hindsight tells me Depodesta's fingerprints are all over the 2016 draft....
I can't argue much with that. After all, there were a couple of comments that he made to the media after the draft.
1 - We don't think Carson Wentz will be a top 20 QB in the league.
2 - We drafted players that were productive in college. (I remember thinking, But does their college production project to NFL production?)
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I am not sure why all the Sashi love. The only thing I will give him credit for is sticking to his "plan". The problem with this was there was no flexibility in his plan. So if you come across a franchise QB you might pick him earlier than the plan says because those guys are hard to find. It was just stupid to trade down out of the two spot. I get it, you are tearing things down and want draft picks, well a franchise QB trumps multiple picks. I don't think Sashi could have picked any better player than I could have or most of us during his tenure and to me thats a problem. If us guys on a message board can't many any worse picks then the GM then thats a problem. Dorsey proved in one draft how much better of a talent evaluator he is. Sashi is a nice guy, but I thought he was a terrible GM.
I don't think Sashi could have picked any better player than I could have or most of us during his tenure and to me thats a problem.
Picking players was never part of his job description.
Sashi Brown (born May 15, 1976) is an American attorney and former executive for the Cleveland Browns. He was the Executive Vice President of football operations for the Cleveland Browns of the National Football League from January 3, 2016, until his firing on December 7, 2017.
Thanks again for proving my point.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I am not sure why all the Sashi love. The only thing I will give him credit for is sticking to his "plan". The problem with this was there was no flexibility in his plan. So if you come across a franchise QB you might pick him earlier than the plan says because those guys are hard to find. It was just stupid to trade down out of the two spot. I get it, you are tearing things down and want draft picks, well a franchise QB trumps multiple picks. I don't think Sashi could have picked any better player than I could have or most of us during his tenure and to me thats a problem. If us guys on a message board can't many any worse picks then the GM then thats a problem. Dorsey proved in one draft how much better of a talent evaluator he is. Sashi is a nice guy, but I thought he was a terrible GM.
How many times have we seen teams give up multiple picks, moving up to draft their potential franchise QB. The Rams did it for Goff, and the Chiefs for Mahomes? The Browns made moving up for a QB only to see him bust an art form- Johnny Football and Brady Quinn come to mind.
The 2016 Browns draft was "good".
Yeah, I'm not even touching that.
I'll give that draft a "C" mabe a "C-" average to below average at best. Considering first round pick Stonehands Coleman is barely hanging on with the Giants, and half the guys they drafted (quantity is better than quality mentality) aren't even on the team anymore, and a few are out of the league.
Compare that to Dorsey's 5 starters, a rookie who made the Bro Bowl, and the guy who should (but probably won't) win the OROTY. A+ there maybe?
I'll give that draft a "C" mabe a "C-" average to below average at best. Considering first round pick Stonehands Coleman is barely hanging on with the Giants, and half the guys they drafted (quantity is better than quality mentality) aren't even on the team anymore, and a few are out of the league.
Compare that to Dorsey's 5 starters, a rookie who made the Bro Bowl, and the guy who should (but probably won't) win the OROTY. A+ there maybe?
Next week I'm going to start a thread on this very subject, since that draft class just finished it's third season. (Which is when many think you can start grading a draft class).
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I don't think Sashi could have picked any better player than I could have or most of us during his tenure and to me thats a problem.
Picking players was never part of his job description.
Sashi Brown (born May 15, 1976) is an American attorney and former executive for the Cleveland Browns. He was the Executive Vice President of football operations for the Cleveland Browns of the National Football League from January 3, 2016, until his firing on December 7, 2017.
Thanks again for proving my point.
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I don't think Sashi could have picked any better player than I could have or most of us during his tenure and to me thats a problem.
Picking players was never part of his job description.
Sashi Brown (born May 15, 1976) is an American attorney and former executive for the Cleveland Browns. He was the Executive Vice President of football operations for the Cleveland Browns of the National Football League from January 3, 2016, until his firing on December 7, 2017.
Thanks again for proving my point.
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.....just give up Gip.
Tour won't admit it- when there was no consensus, and that certainly happened- Shashi did indeed have the final say. And asked his anal-itics guy Depodesta "Wentz won't be a top 20 QB in the NFL" who to draft....
Say what? they just tossed players names in a hat and pulled one out when "consensus" failed?
Thank God that's over and done with. The new order is Dorsey looked over Depodesta's "anal-itics" and last draft told Paul- "go sit over there in a corner, and when I want your opinion, I'll ask for it".
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There's no charge for that service.
At least the price is right...
Tour won't admit it- when there was no consensus, and that certainly happened- Shashi did indeed have the final say. And asked his anal-itics guy Depodesta "Wentz won't be a top 20 QB in the NFL" who to draft....
Say what? they just tossed players names in a hat and pulled one out when "consensus" failed?
First, I love having Wentz thrown out as the example... I really do. A question h.... would you trade Baker for Wentz?
Actually it's you who won't admit that you do not understand the consensus approach. I'll simplify it for you...
When there's no consensus, you pass. Whether it's a business strategy or a football player... no hats involved. You simply move to the strategy/player for which there is consensus. In a draft then it's a matter of whether you take that player with the pick at hand or trade down to tab him at a spot you believe is more in line with his "value".
It's really not that hard guys...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Wentz is not a fine example to use in that regard for Sashi.
Now... Corey Coleman in favor or some other players on the board ( including my screaming for Michael Thomas) might have been a better way to make your argument.
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Wentz is not a fine example to use in that regard for Sashi.
Now... Corey Coleman in favor or some other players on the board ( including my screaming for Michael Thomas) might have been a better way to make your argument.
Wentz is not a fine example to use in that regard for Sashi.
Now... Corey Coleman in favor or some other players on the board ( including my screaming for Michael Thomas) might have been a better way to make your argument.
Well said! Hindsight 20/20 shows we could have traded back even further into round 1 or round 2 (and landed more picks) for the very same Michael Thomas that wasn't drafted until the 47th slot overall in round 2. Hard to believe he was the 6th WR taken in that draft...
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Wentz is not a fine example to use in that regard for Sashi.
Now... Corey Coleman in favor or some other players on the board ( including my screaming for Michael Thomas) might have been a better way to make your argument.
Well said! Hindsight 20/20 shows we could have traded back even further into round 1 or round 2 (and landed more picks) for the very same Michael Thomas that wasn't drafted until the 47th slot overall in round 2. Hard to believe he was the 6th WR taken in that draft...
Well said! Hindsight 20/20 shows we could have traded back even further into round 1 or round 2 (and landed more picks) for the very same Michael Thomas that wasn't drafted until the 47th slot overall in round 2. Hard to believe he was the 6th WR taken in that draft...
No hindsight necessary. I still have some screen shots saved easily calling him the #1 receiver in my mind for that class. I would have had zero issue taking him in place of where we did with CC. Sadly, history was not so kind to us.
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Well said! Hindsight 20/20 shows we could have traded back even further into round 1 or round 2 (and landed more picks) for the very same Michael Thomas that wasn't drafted until the 47th slot overall in round 2. Hard to believe he was the 6th WR taken in that draft...
No hindsight necessary. I still have some screen shots saved easily calling him the #1 receiver in my mind for that class. I would have had zero issue taking him in place of where we did with CC. Sadly, history was not so kind to us.
No hindsight necessary. I still have some screen shots saved easily calling him the #1 receiver in my mind for that class. I would have had zero issue taking him in place of where we did with CC. Sadly, history was not so kind to us.
I hear ya, which is why i said "Well said!" I just added the hindsight 20/20 to show how many teams/scouts didn't have the first clue what this guy was capable of.
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The consensus theory regarding Sashi's time with the Browns is a solid one.
It means that the argument can be made that nothing bad that happened under his watch was really his fault, but anything good that happened can be linked directly to Sashi.
Its brilliant.
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The consensus theory regarding Sashi's time with the Browns is a solid one.
It means that the argument can be made that nothing bad that happened under his watch was really his fault, but anything good that happened can be linked directly to Sashi.
Its brilliant.
The consensus theory regarding Sashi's time with the Browns is a solid one.
It means that the argument can be made that nothing bad that happened under his watch was really his fault, but anything good that happened can be linked directly to Sashi.
Its brilliant.
Whoever would hold that theory though?
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There's no charge for that service.
At least the price is right...
Tour won't admit it- when there was no consensus, and that certainly happened- Shashi did indeed have the final say. And asked his anal-itics guy Depodesta "Wentz won't be a top 20 QB in the NFL" who to draft....
Say what? they just tossed players names in a hat and pulled one out when "consensus" failed?
First, I love having Wentz thrown out as the example... I really do. A question h.... would you trade Baker for Wentz?
Actually it's you who won't admit that you do not understand the consensus approach. I'll simplify it for you...
When there's no consensus, you pass. Whether it's a business strategy or a football player... no hats involved. You simply move to the strategy/player for which there is consensus. In a draft then it's a matter of whether you take that player with the pick at hand or trade down to tab him at a spot you believe is more in line with his "value".
It's really not that hard guys...
At least the price is right...
First, I love having Wentz thrown out as the example... I really do. A question h.... would you trade Baker for Wentz?
Actually it's you who won't admit that you do not understand the consensus approach. I'll simplify it for you...
When there's no consensus, you pass. Whether it's a business strategy or a football player... no hats involved. You simply move to the strategy/player for which there is consensus. In a draft then it's a matter of whether you take that player with the pick at hand or trade down to tab him at a spot you believe is more in line with his "value".
It's really not that hard guys...
I think I finally got it Tour. I WANT GOFF!!! I WANT WENTZ!!! OK, we can't agree there, BUT WE ALL CAN ALL AGREE ON COREY COLEMAN!!!! FAIL. Then no one is responsible for a bad pick- or they all are... Could be why Haslam came to the conclusion his grand analytics experiment wasn't working, and decided to go with a more traditional approach. Sort of why Dorsey almost totally cleaned house. And in a convoluted way of answering your Wentz- Mayfield question. Sashi did do Browns fans one big favor, torpedoing the trade that would have cost us a second and third round pick to get AJ McCarron.... LOL, did he have to have a consensus there? Tells me he had more say-so than just being a consensus builder. Which reflects on the Huebartoss' (now obvious) epic inability to properly evaluate talent, especially quarterback talent ... And trying to turn the not ready for prime time (if ever) Deshone Kizer into a starting NFL quarterback... FWIW, I probably was the most strident voice out here that MHO Kizer was gonna suck big time in the pros... Score another one for me in the draft game. Can't lay all the blame for 1-15, 0-16 at Sashi's feet, not when Hue was the HC. So...
In light of the above regarding the Baker-Carson question... If Sashi was still around, he would have traded out of #1 for extra picks- and drafted Josh Allen.
PS- that said, Wentz is a Pro Bowl level qb- when healthy. Tour, you're justified questioning if Carson is injury prone. He hasn't reached Sam Bradford level yet, but another major injury this year- he's going to be wearing that tag for sure. The other thing is, had we drafted Wentz- we wouldn't have been in the position to draft Baker, so it's a moot point....
Whoever would hold that theory though?
Easy, Sashi.
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