Cribbs a Holdout? - NFL.Com
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What are the repercussions for teams that violate a signed, legal contract? NOTHING!
Legal contract? I do think the CBA punishes a team for that. There is no getting off scott free, I can say that. It does favor the owners, but lets be honest - the NFLPA agreed to give stupid ass salaries and contract to players - unproven - coming out of the draft. They have some blame to bear as well. They wanted Free Agency, and with it came certain things they needed to give up.
Legal contract? I do think the CBA punishes a team for that. There is no getting off scott free, I can say that. It does favor the owners, but lets be honest - the NFLPA agreed to give stupid ass salaries and contract to players - unproven - coming out of the draft. They have some blame to bear as well. They wanted Free Agency, and with it came certain things they needed to give up.
What does free agency have to do with team owners not having to honor a players contract? The owners wanted a salary cap...they got it! There's the trade off for free-agency! Where is the job security for the players? As far as rookie salaries....I completely agree! Rookies are HIGHLY overpaid! They have proved nothing except that they can play well against other college students who, more often than not, will never play a down of pro football. But, again, what does that have to do with teams honoring player contracts. Players have to honor their sides, or not get paid. Owners can release a player and it won't hurt their wallets! The MLB has that part right. If you sign a contract, it needs to be honored by both sides!
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Legal contract? I do think the CBA punishes a team for that. There is no getting off scott free, I can say that. It does favor the owners, but lets be honest - the NFLPA agreed to give stupid ass salaries and contract to players - unproven - coming out of the draft. They have some blame to bear as well. They wanted Free Agency, and with it came certain things they needed to give up.
What does free agency have to do with team owners not having to honor a players contract? The owners wanted a salary cap...they got it! There's the trade off for free-agency! Where is the job security for the players? As far as rookie salaries....I completely agree! Rookies are HIGHLY overpaid! They have proved nothing except that they can play well against other college students who, more often than not, will never play a down of pro football. But, again, what does that have to do with teams honoring player contracts. Players have to honor their sides, or not get paid. Owners can release a player and it won't hurt their wallets! The MLB has that part right. If you sign a contract, it needs to be honored by both sides!
What does free agency have to do with team owners not having to honor a players contract? The owners wanted a salary cap...they got it! There's the trade off for free-agency! Where is the job security for the players? As far as rookie salaries....I completely agree! Rookies are HIGHLY overpaid! They have proved nothing except that they can play well against other college students who, more often than not, will never play a down of pro football. But, again, what does that have to do with teams honoring player contracts. Players have to honor their sides, or not get paid. Owners can release a player and it won't hurt their wallets! The MLB has that part right. If you sign a contract, it needs to be honored by both sides!
You seriously don't think the contracts are written in such a way that allows for the teams to "legally" get out of the contract? That's why there are signing bonuses and roster bonuses, etc. Its all a trade-off.
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What does free agency have to do with team owners not having to honor a players contract? The owners wanted a salary cap...they got it! There's the trade off for free-agency! Where is the job security for the players? As far as rookie salaries....I completely agree! Rookies are HIGHLY overpaid! They have proved nothing except that they can play well against other college students who, more often than not, will never play a down of pro football. But, again, what does that have to do with teams honoring player contracts. Players have to honor their sides, or not get paid. Owners can release a player and it won't hurt their wallets! The MLB has that part right. If you sign a contract, it needs to be honored by both sides!
You seriously don't think the contracts are written in such a way that allows for the teams to "legally" get out of the contract? That's why there are signing bonuses and roster bonuses, etc. Its all a trade-off.
You seriously don't think the contracts are written in such a way that allows for the teams to "legally" get out of the contract? That's why there are signing bonuses and roster bonuses, etc. Its all a trade-off.
Understood...But where is the "legal" way for a player to get out of the contract when he is clearly underpaid per league standards? The trade-off is a little lopsided there!
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You seriously don't think the contracts are written in such a way that allows for the teams to "legally" get out of the contract? That's why there are signing bonuses and roster bonuses, etc. Its all a trade-off.
Understood...But where is the "legal" way for a player to get out of the contract when he is clearly underpaid per league standards? The trade-off is a little lopsided there!
Understood...But where is the "legal" way for a player to get out of the contract when he is clearly underpaid per league standards? The trade-off is a little lopsided there!
How is he underpaid? He's making a mill a year to be a STer. He's wanting Hester type money without currently doing what Hester does. Hester got his money AFTER becoming a bigger part of the Bears offense. Lastly, no one forced him to sign the deal. If he was really worried about being underpaid two years after signing it, maybe his agent should have gotten a clause or two for incentives thrown in.
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Understood...But where is the "legal" way for a player to get out of the contract when he is clearly underpaid per league standards? The trade-off is a little lopsided there!
How is he underpaid? He's making a mill a year to be a STer. He's wanting Hester type money without currently doing what Hester does. Hester got his money AFTER becoming a bigger part of the Bears offense. Lastly, no one forced him to sign the deal. If he was really worried about being underpaid two years after signing it, maybe his agent should have gotten a clause or two for incentives thrown in.
How is he underpaid? He's making a mill a year to be a STer. He's wanting Hester type money without currently doing what Hester does. Hester got his money AFTER becoming a bigger part of the Bears offense. Lastly, no one forced him to sign the deal. If he was really worried about being underpaid two years after signing it, maybe his agent should have gotten a clause or two for incentives thrown in.
Hester signed his contract on 7/27/2008. Prior to that he had only 20 receptions on the offense. Cribbs already has 16 receptions. And Cribbs has a much bigger role as the QB in the Browns WildDawg....so not sure where you get that.
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Understood...But where is the "legal" way for a player to get out of the contract when he is clearly underpaid per league standards? The trade-off is a little lopsided there!
How is he underpaid? He's making a mill a year to be a STer. He's wanting Hester type money without currently doing what Hester does. Hester got his money AFTER becoming a bigger part of the Bears offense. Lastly, no one forced him to sign the deal. If he was really worried about being underpaid two years after signing it, maybe his agent should have gotten a clause or two for incentives thrown in.
How is he underpaid? He's making a mill a year to be a STer. He's wanting Hester type money without currently doing what Hester does. Hester got his money AFTER becoming a bigger part of the Bears offense. Lastly, no one forced him to sign the deal. If he was really worried about being underpaid two years after signing it, maybe his agent should have gotten a clause or two for incentives thrown in.
To add to what WPB was saying, Cribbs has had more kick return yards and more yards per return than Hester has over the past 3 seasons. All while keeping pace with him in TD's. Yes, Hester has the better punt return numbers, but not by much. And Cribbs has had a huge impact rushing the ball in comparison to Hester.
Oh yeah...how many tackles has Hester made on special teams? Cribbs blows him out of the water there too! Cribbs is much more valuable to the Browns than Hester is to Chicago. He does more and his overall stats are better than Hester's. Cribbs deserves more money than he is making, by far. By league standards, based on performance, he deserves at least as much as Hester. And now, the Browns coaching staff is asking him to do even more, by asking him to play on defense too? C'mon...give the guy a raise! They'll regret it if they trade him!
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Honestly, I believe what the Browns may be saying is "get into camp and prove you can be either a WR or a DB and we will pony up....until then you are mainly a ST".
That's how I would play it anyway.
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Latest update...sounds like the talks are at least ongoing!
Cribbs and the Browns still talking
Posted: July 24th, 2009 | Jason La Canfora | Tags: Brady Quinn, Cleveland Browns, contract, Derek Anderson, Eric Mangini, George Kokinis, holdout, Josh Cribbs
For the second time this week, officials from the Cleveland Browns and representatives for Pro Bowl return specialist Josh Cribbs held a conference call to discuss the player’s situation. The sides held their second conversation Thursday, according to a source, chatting for roughly three hours. The Browns and Cribbs are still scheduled to hold face-to-face meetings with the player, who has contributed to the team’s WildDawg formation as a quarterback and worked as a receiver and a defensive back. Cribbs did not take part in the conference call himself, sources said.
Cribbs, a wide receiver by trade, has been looking for the organization to be open to altering his contract, which has four years remaining, believing he has outperformed his level of compensation. Cribbs has been seriously considering holding out of the start of training camp, and a final decision on whether to report on time will come after the face-to-face meeting with team officials, the source said. The Browns, with a new coach (Eric Mangini) and general manager (George Kokinis), had been unwilling to change Cribbs’ deal. Mangini has a reputation as a hard-line guy, and this is one of many challenges facing him and his team, with the Browns also looking at a quarterback competition between Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn.
Cribbs, 26, was a college quarterback at Kent. He is in his fifth year after entering the league as an undrafted free agent.
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http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/07/25/cribbs-rep...a-happy-camper/
Cribbs Reporting to Browns, But Not A Happy Camper
Josh Cribbs will be in Cleveland this week and taking part in Browns training camp. We know that much in regards to the Pro Bowl return specialist from sources close to the player. Beyond that, however, much remains in limbo.
As we’ve reported (Steve Wyche was first on the story), Cribbs is unhappy with his contract and wants the Browns’ new front office and coaching staff to uphold a promise made the previous coach and general manager to re-work the final four years on his contract. That sentiment has not changed, according to sources, with Cribbs’s decision to attend camp not an indication that he’s a happy camper.
Cribbs, who made an impact in the WildDawg formation and plays receiver, remains prepared to sit out the start of the regular season barring some resolution regarding his contract, sources said. To this point coach Eric Mangini, who has significant power in that organization, has not been willing to alter Cribbs’s deal. Cribbs’s agents and the Browns spoke several times this week and will begin face-to-face meetings Thursday, sources said. Cribbs is hopeful that at some point between now and September the team will give him some additional incentives, triggers or achievable bonuses to sweeten his deal.
Cribbs is not seeking a Devin Hester contract, according to a source, and isn’t fixated on certain figures, but is fixated on procuring some additional compensation in one form or another.
So this saga will continue for at least a little while longer. Maybe the sides come to some sort of agreement Thursday that makes Cribbs content, but there is nothing forcing the Browns to do anything contractually in this circumstance, hence the stalemate. Both sides can make strong arguments, and we’ll keep monitoring it.
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Honestly, I believe what the Browns may be saying is "get into camp and prove you can be either a WR or a DB and we will pony up....until then you are mainly a ST".
That's how I would play it anyway.
Honestly, I believe what the Browns may be saying is "get into camp and prove you can be either a WR or a DB and we will pony up....until then you are mainly a ST".
That's how I would play it anyway.
My question is "why would we want Cribbs to be anything other than exactly what he has been?"
Cribbs has been a game-changer at PR/KR. Nobody will dispute this. Now take his closest comparison, Devin Hester, and see what Chicago did with him. Chicago moving Hester to WR (where is is absolutely pedestrian) from KR/PR (where he was an absolute game-changer) was a completely stupid move, to me, from the very beginning. So now, the Bears have another average receiver and far-from-Devin-Hester at KR/PR. How does Chicago feel this improved their team/justify this move??
I'd hate to see us do the same thing with Cribbs. We are deep enough at WR and DB to keep him at a place where he can actually make a difference in the game. Hopefully, Mangini/Kokinis are smart enough to realize this, too.
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I like Mangini's approach in this situation. If we want to be a hard-nosed, winning football team, he has to show that NO ONE is above the team. So, Cribbs does not like his contract? Too bad.
This is the classic example of players gouging a team when the team is a horrible spot. We only won FOUR games last year. Cribbs, you don't like it in Cleveland? You don't want to own up to the contract YOU SIGNED? If he holds out, I think that reflects the type of character, and importantly the culture we don't want on this team. Let's bring in some players who want to be here.
Just my .02.
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Hey, what happened to all the safety talk LOL?
"Let's see, he's gonna return punts, kickoffs, play WR, QB in the WildDawg, line up in the backfield, cover all kicks while being a gunner and start at safety."
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Hey, what happened to all the safety talk LOL?
"Let's see, he's gonna return punts, kickoffs, play WR, QB in the WildDawg, line up in the backfield, cover all kicks while being a gunner and start at safety."
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I like Mangini's approach in this situation. If we want to be a hard-nosed, winning football team, he has to show that NO ONE is above the team. So, Cribbs does not like his contract? Too bad.
This is the classic example of players gouging a team when the team is a horrible spot. We only won FOUR games last year. Cribbs, you don't like it in Cleveland? You don't want to own up to the contract YOU SIGNED? If he holds out, I think that reflects the type of character, and importantly the culture we don't want on this team. Let's bring in some players who want to be here.
Just my .02.
I like Mangini's approach in this situation. If we want to be a hard-nosed, winning football team, he has to show that NO ONE is above the team. So, Cribbs does not like his contract? Too bad.
This is the classic example of players gouging a team when the team is a horrible spot. We only won FOUR games last year. Cribbs, you don't like it in Cleveland? You don't want to own up to the contract YOU SIGNED? If he holds out, I think that reflects the type of character, and importantly the culture we don't want on this team. Let's bring in some players who want to be here.
Just my .02.
If he honestly didn't want to be here, he wouldn't report to camp. He wants to be here. He wants to play football here. He just wants, and deserves I might add, to be paid equal to what others like him in the league are making...example...Devin Hester. He has been the biggest difference maker on this team for the last 2 years. Why should he not ask for more money? He is, by league standards, underpaid. (I personally think that all athletes are overpaid, but I am arguing this point based on the going rates in the NFL.) Why is it that we all want players to take a pay cut or to renegotiate their contract when it would benefit the team...or the team can just cut the player and rip up his contract, but when a player, like Cribbs, feels that he is underpaid and wants a new or adjusted contract, we all think it is terrible?
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^every single one of those questions has been answered ad nauseum. he's not devin hester....he's a ST ace.
how much do you think a returner/gunner is worth?
^every single one of those questions has been answered ad nauseum. he's not devin hester....he's a ST ace.
how much do you think a returner/gunner is worth?
You are correct. He's not Devin Hester. He does a lot more than Hester! Look at their return numbers...both before and after Hester's big contract. Cribbs' numbers were better. All the while, Cribbs was establishing himself as a force to be reckoned with on the coverage team as well, while Hester did nothing else. Now, Hester has finally become a decent WR, but his return numbers have dropped off. Cribbs has continued expand his role. He has roles at QB, RB, WR, KR, PR, Gunner, and now their talking Safety.
Last season, both of them played in 15 games. Hester had 1603 all purpose yards and scored 3 TD's...all receiving. Cribbs had 1531 yards and also scored 3 TD's...1 receiving, 1 rushing, and 1 kick return. Hester fumbled the ball 5 times with 2 lost. He did recover 2 fumbles...his own. And he had a whopping 2 tackles (both solo) for the season. Cribbs fumbled the ball...oh wait...he had ZERO fumbles last season and recovered one fumble while making 23 tackles...19 of those being solo.
Once again, I ask...Who is really overall more valuable to their team? I could go back and do 2007's numbers, but that would make the Bears look rediculous for giving him that kind of contract while Cribbs is making pennies in comparison while doing more.
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^every single one of those questions has been answered ad nauseum. he's not devin hester....he's a ST ace.
how much do you think a returner/gunner is worth?
You are correct. He's not Devin Hester. He does a lot more than Hester! Look at their return numbers...both before and after Hester's big contract. Cribbs' numbers were better. All the while, Cribbs was establishing himself as a force to be reckoned with on the coverage team as well, while Hester did nothing else. Now, Hester has finally become a decent WR, but his return numbers have dropped off. Cribbs has continued expand his role. He has roles at QB, RB, WR, KR, PR, Gunner, and now their talking Safety.
Last season, both of them played in 15 games. Hester had 1603 all purpose yards and scored 3 TD's...all receiving. Cribbs had 1531 yards and also scored 3 TD's...1 receiving, 1 rushing, and 1 kick return. Hester fumbled the ball 5 times with 2 lost. He did recover 2 fumbles...his own. And he had a whopping 2 tackles (both solo) for the season. Cribbs fumbled the ball...oh wait...he had ZERO fumbles last season and recovered one fumble while making 23 tackles...19 of those being solo.
Once again, I ask...Who is really overall more valuable to their team? I could go back and do 2007's numbers, but that would make the Bears look rediculous for giving him that kind of contract while Cribbs is making pennies in comparison while doing more.
You are correct. He's not Devin Hester. He does a lot more than Hester!
i made it this far...then you screwed the pooch. the rest is probly hogwash.
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You are correct. He's not Devin Hester. He does a lot more than Hester!
i made it this far...then you screwed the pooch. the rest is probly hogwash.
i made it this far...then you screwed the pooch. the rest is probly hogwash.
You might want to actually look at stats and watch a few games then!
What is your logic behind backing Hester so much? Can you honestly look at the facts and tell me that Hester truly deserves that much more money than Cribbs? I have shown stats and backed up my opinion. What is the base of your argument? Or are you just that infatuated with Hester? He must have done very well for you in your fantasy league at some point?! Or Cribbs killed you while racking up points for someone else?! I am not going to say that Cribbs or Hester is the best return man ever or that either one of them really, truly deserve Hester's contract. But...I will say that there is not much of a difference between the two either way. They both should be getting about the same pay. The biggest difference is that the Bears were willing to grossly overpay Hester while the Browns are grossly underpaying Cribbs!
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