So whats wrong with Baker?
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Btw, I re-watched game and I'm again completely shocked by three things.
1. Baker's uncomfortability at going deep. He threw the one to OBJ that was a circus catch, but even that was woefully unerthrown. Baker once again missed OBJ deep for yet another touchdown. Granted, it was 4th and 7, but Baker still threw it to a severely covered Landry. It was an AMAZING throw and catch, and I'm not complaining one bit about that, but Jesus Christ Mayfield. LET IT RIP TO THE DEEP THREAT. For the love of God, throw the ball down the field at least once per quarter. OBJ was disgustingly open, and we don't throw it deep NEAR enough. We had great protection...stretch the effing field. Baker simply doesn't throw touchdown passes, and we HAVE to figure it out or we won't win consistently.
2. Our missed XP was the catalyst to our undoing. After that, we went STRAIGHT into circle-jerk mode and we fumbled, intercepted, missed tackled, and blocked punted our way to a loss. I mean we couldn't force a fart without changing our underwear, and that kick...that one stupid XP was our undoing.
3. We got beat by the MVP of the league, and that just sucks for us. Some of the plays Russell Wilson made were just bonkers. Whenever they needed a play, he made it. 2nd and 22? No problem. 3rd and goal? He's your man. Gordian Knot? You got it. I mean it was UNCANNY how just about every time they needed magic, Russell made it happen.
Tough loss against a mighty foe. Seahawks have too many problems on defense to go all the way, but they'll always have a chance with Russ.
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This hasn't yet been mentioned & is just a thought, but could Baker have an undisclosed injury he is trying to play through? Say, maybe a shoulder? He has taken a load of hard hits so far this season & pre-season.
An injury could explain loss of accuracy & reluctance to throw deep.
Mike
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Yea, but the mighty Rams lost 3 in a row and look weak, KC lost 2 in a row, at home. Dallas lost to the Jets....SF and NE look like the only King Kongs but you know they will lose soon (maybe not NE). The biggest problem is the franchise structure and stability, or lack thereof. When this team hits those shaky stretches, they don't know how to batten down the hatches and endure. Baker has thumbed his nose at all adversity in his life, so far. He assumed he could just do it again in the NFL - he beat the odds everywhere else, so why not? Combine the young, cocky kid at QB, a first-time ever head coach (never was so much a coordinator until now, on any level) and an owner who never seemed to learn about the value of stability, and, well, this is what you get. Is it correctable? I'm not sure. Can the team ever achieve success with this owner? Will Snyder ever win in DC? It's tough with an owner who messes so much up. If you constantly re-boot your computer, can you ever make progress?
Exactly- there were high expectations coming into the season- and the team hasn't lived up to them- yet. Hence mega frustration and doom & gloom from some quarters. As you mentioned, the only teams playing like Super Bowl hopefuls to date are the Pats and 49ers. I've said it elsewhere- the Ravens are due a reality check when they start playing playoff caliber teams. I won't be shocked if 8-8 will be good enough to win the AFC North. I've got the Ratbirds penciled in for maybe 7 or 8 losses the rest of the way out. Steelers? Did they find their mojo, or are the Chargers that bad? I'm more worried about Pittsburgh than Baltimore, winning like that with a backup qb was mighty impressive.
Regarding Baker- I think he's learning pretty fast it's not as easy as it was last year when everyone has you targeted for their best shot.
Exactly- there were high expectations coming into the season- and the team hasn't lived up to them- yet. Hence mega frustration and doom & gloom from some quarters. As you mentioned, the only teams playing like Super Bowl hopefuls to date are the Pats and 49ers. I've said it elsewhere- the Ravens are due a reality check when they start playing playoff caliber teams. I won't be shocked if 8-8 will be good enough to win the AFC North. I've got the Ratbirds penciled in for maybe 7 or 8 losses the rest of the way out. Steelers? Did they find their mojo, or are the Chargers that bad? I'm more worried about Pittsburgh than Baltimore, winning like that with a backup qb was mighty impressive.
Regarding Baker- I think he's learning pretty fast it's not as easy as it was last year when everyone has you targeted for their best shot.
Both, Pit play called great to protect Duck. LA still almost came back. The AFCN is so flawed. The Ravens are the best team and the Browns destroyed them. It's wide open.
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Btw, I re-watched game and I'm again completely shocked by three things.
1. Baker's uncomfortability at going deep. He threw the one to OBJ that was a circus catch, but even that was woefully unerthrown. Baker once again missed OBJ deep for yet another touchdown. Granted, it was 4th and 7, but Baker still threw it to a severely covered Landry. It was an AMAZING throw and catch, and I'm not complaining one bit about that, but Jesus Christ Mayfield. LET IT RIP TO THE DEEP THREAT. For the love of God, throw the ball down the field at least once per quarter. OBJ was disgustingly open, and we don't throw it deep NEAR enough. We had great protection...stretch the effing field. Baker simply doesn't throw touchdown passes, and we HAVE to figure it out or we won't win consistently.
2. Our missed XP was the catalyst to our undoing. After that, we went STRAIGHT into circle-jerk mode and we fumbled, intercepted, missed tackled, and blocked punted our way to a loss. I mean we couldn't force a fart without changing our underwear, and that kick...that one stupid XP was our undoing.
3. We got beat by the MVP of the league, and that just sucks for us. Some of the plays Russell Wilson made were just bonkers. Whenever they needed a play, he made it. 2nd and 22? No problem. 3rd and goal? He's your man. Gordian Knot? You got it. I mean it was UNCANNY how just about every time they needed magic, Russell made it happen.
Tough loss against a mighty foe. Seahawks have too many problems on defense to go all the way, but they'll always have a chance with Russ.
I mean we couldn't force a fart without changing our underwear, and that kick...that one stupid XP was our undoing.
If this is true, that a missed XP caused the Browns to spiral out of control, then this team is one mentally-weak, fragile group.
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I mean we couldn't force a fart without changing our underwear, and that kick...that one stupid XP was our undoing.
If this is true, that a missed XP caused the Browns to spiral out of control, then this team is one mentally-weak, fragile group.
If this is true, that a missed XP caused the Browns to spiral out of control, then this team is one mentally-weak, fragile group.
I mean, obviously I don't KNOW that, but up to that point we looked like the definition of ass-kickers. Remember that Baltimore game a few years back when we jumped all over them, Corey Coleman actually had a great game, and we got up like 20-0, but missed the last XP and it went to crap? It might seem ridiculous, but those missed XPs kind of deflate the team I think.
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Look how bad he is actually playing: 56% pass completion, 61 QB rating. Duck from Pitt - the undrafted rookie - has superior #'s: 75%, 91 rating. Come on. Baker was the 1st pick of the entire draft, and a 56% is what he brings you?
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think more comprehensively, grasshopper. The Browns oline has struggled at both tackle spots. HIggins, Calloway and Njoku
have been out. After last year, Baker is the object of serious defensive attention. It's more complicated that just stats of the qb.
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Interesting article, h... nice OP... but I still think the article is significantly over-complicating things.
Look at it's play one and you see from the endzone cam that Baker's sight line gets cut off... he bales looking for lanes he can see thru and then throw thru. And once he finds one then he throws a strike to RSJ.
This is happening a lot between the OTs and the difference there? No Zeitler...
Where last year there were clear site/throw lanes big enough to see multiple WR strides... now there are slits producing flashes... and inaccurate throws. Sunday's last throw behind Hilliard is Exhibit A.
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What if Baker's tipped passes or bobbled passes are caught? How many touchdowns, yards, first downs and interceptions change numbers? Anybody care enough to look into this or are we just content to keep bitching about QBs? Don't speak another QB debacle into place or talk yourselves into more gloom and doom. Baker is good. The Browns are good. We steal one back from the Patriots and clean up against the Broncos and we're back to 4-4 and looking WHITE HOT with Hunt and Njoku returning and entering the back nine. It's nut up or shut up time.
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Ironically enough, Baker is missing Njoku because he threw a high pass that got Njoku laid out.
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Ironically enough, Baker is missing Njoku because he threw a high pass that got Njoku laid out.
Ironically enough, Baker is missing Njoku because he threw a high pass that got Njoku laid out.
Ouch.
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Ironically enough, Baker is missing Njoku because he threw a high pass that got Njoku laid out.
Ironically enough, Baker is missing Njoku because he threw a high pass that got Njoku laid out.
After missing him originally over the middle.
Here's the one stat that REALLY scares me regarding Baker, and I don't have the exact numbers, but I have the gist (from Browns Daily). From a clean pocket with no pressure, Baker was around 58%, and he was only pressured on something like 25% of his drop backs. So if you want to blame the OL still, you better think twice. Baker didn't get sacked last game and still couldn't deliver the goods far too often. I don't have the stat in front of me, but last year Baker FEASTED on clean pockets and destroyed people. And did I mention he doesn't throw it deep still? Go watch that 4th and 7 to Landry. Watch how wide open OBJ is for the touchdown. It's nauseating. No QB hits them all, but Jesus man. OBJ used to score touchdowns...with Eli Manning!
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I think it’s 75% Freddie and 15% Baker trying to do too much and 10% supporting cast (line and WRs)
Absolutely. Excessive penalties is a discipline problem, and the buck stops at the coaching on that one.
For all of the great moves Dorsey and Co. have made so far here in Cleveland, the hiring of Kitchens as HC might be a huge enough blunder to cancel out those earlier good moves
Absolutely. Excessive penalties is a discipline problem, and the buck stops at the coaching on that one.
For all of the great moves Dorsey and Co. have made so far here in Cleveland, the hiring of Kitchens as HC might be a huge enough blunder to cancel out those earlier good moves
I hear that time and time again, and never understood it. What is it exactly that Kitchens should be doing? What is the training method/process used to train players not to commit penalties? You're the coach, what would you do?
Yell at them?
Yell at them louder?
Bench them if they commit a penalty?
Fine them?
My belief is Belicheck doesn't need to discipline his team in order to commit few penalties. The players they pick happen to be self disciplined. By the time a player reaches the pro level he should already be disciplined in the game.
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Ironically enough, Baker is missing Njoku because he threw a high pass that got Njoku laid out.
After missing him originally over the middle.
Here's the one stat that REALLY scares me regarding Baker, and I don't have the exact numbers, but I have the gist (from Browns Daily). From a clean pocket with no pressure, Baker was around 58%, and he was only pressured on something like 25% of his drop backs. So if you want to blame the OL still, you better think twice. Baker didn't get sacked last game and still couldn't deliver the goods far too often. I don't have the stat in front of me, but last year Baker FEASTED on clean pockets and destroyed people. And did I mention he doesn't throw it deep still? Go watch that 4th and 7 to Landry. Watch how wide open OBJ is for the touchdown. It's nauseating. No QB hits them all, but Jesus man. OBJ used to score touchdowns...with Eli Manning!
After missing him originally over the middle.
Here's the one stat that REALLY scares me regarding Baker, and I don't have the exact numbers, but I have the gist (from Browns Daily). From a clean pocket with no pressure, Baker was around 58%, and he was only pressured on something like 25% of his drop backs. So if you want to blame the OL still, you better think twice. Baker didn't get sacked last game and still couldn't deliver the goods far too often. I don't have the stat in front of me, but last year Baker FEASTED on clean pockets and destroyed people. And did I mention he doesn't throw it deep still? Go watch that 4th and 7 to Landry. Watch how wide open OBJ is for the touchdown. It's nauseating. No QB hits them all, but Jesus man. OBJ used to score touchdowns...with Eli Manning!
Those are compelling points. Obviously, something isn't clicking. Coaching?
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Ironically enough, Baker is missing Njoku because he threw a high pass that got Njoku laid out.
Ironically enough, Baker is missing Njoku because he threw a high pass that got Njoku laid out.
That is ironic.
The real answer of what is wrong with the Browns and Mayfield is a combination of several factors, a sort of perfect storm that all came together in the first six weeks of this season starting with the somewhat out of control super hype on the Superbowl bound Browns.
They all forgot that you have to get into the playoffs first! Anyone remember all of this talk?
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Ironically enough, Baker is missing Njoku because he threw a high pass that got Njoku laid out.
Ironically enough, Baker is missing Njoku because he threw a high pass that got Njoku laid out.
...and Njoku's injury had nothing to do with that piece of shit Jet's player undercutting Njoku before the ball touches his hands? Actually should have been pass interference and unsportsmanlike conduct- that was as close to a "Saint's bounty play" as I've seen since James Harrison.
The secret of getting ahead is getting started. The secret of getting started is breaking your complex overwhelming tasks into small manageable tasks, and then starting on the first one. -Mark Twain- "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." -Mark Twain- -
Btw, I re-watched game and I'm again completely shocked by three things.
1. Baker's uncomfortability at going deep. He threw the one to OBJ that was a circus catch, but even that was woefully unerthrown. Baker once again missed OBJ deep for yet another touchdown. Granted, it was 4th and 7, but Baker still threw it to a severely covered Landry. It was an AMAZING throw and catch, and I'm not complaining one bit about that, but Jesus Christ Mayfield. LET IT RIP TO THE DEEP THREAT. For the love of God, throw the ball down the field at least once per quarter. OBJ was disgustingly open, and we don't throw it deep NEAR enough. We had great protection...stretch the effing field. Baker simply doesn't throw touchdown passes, and we HAVE to figure it out or we won't win consistently.
2. Our missed XP was the catalyst to our undoing. After that, we went STRAIGHT into circle-jerk mode and we fumbled, intercepted, missed tackled, and blocked punted our way to a loss. I mean we couldn't force a fart without changing our underwear, and that kick...that one stupid XP was our undoing.
3. We got beat by the MVP of the league, and that just sucks for us. Some of the plays Russell Wilson made were just bonkers. Whenever they needed a play, he made it. 2nd and 22? No problem. 3rd and goal? He's your man. Gordian Knot? You got it. I mean it was UNCANNY how just about every time they needed magic, Russell made it happen.
Tough loss against a mighty foe. Seahawks have too many problems on defense to go all the way, but they'll always have a chance with Russ.
. I mean we couldn't force a fart without changing our underwear, and that kick
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After missing him originally over the middle.
Here's the one stat that REALLY scares me regarding Baker, and I don't have the exact numbers, but I have the gist (from Browns Daily). From a clean pocket with no pressure, Baker was around 58%, and he was only pressured on something like 25% of his drop backs. So if you want to blame the OL still, you better think twice. Baker didn't get sacked last game and still couldn't deliver the goods far too often. I don't have the stat in front of me, but last year Baker FEASTED on clean pockets and destroyed people. And did I mention he doesn't throw it deep still? Go watch that 4th and 7 to Landry. Watch how wide open OBJ is for the touchdown. It's nauseating. No QB hits them all, but Jesus man. OBJ used to score touchdowns...with Eli Manning!
Those are compelling points. Obviously, something isn't clicking. Coaching?
Those are compelling points. Obviously, something isn't clicking. Coaching?
QB coach said a lot of it is coaches having tape on Baker, some of it has been mechanics (his Landry end zone pick had poor footwork), and some of it has been OL and poor play calling. From what I understand, we had an explosive offense in training camp on several days. We saw the beginning of that Sunday, but the turnovers crushed the dream. This is why so many people expect us to go on a winning streak...we're somewhat close. I mean, we took one of the top 3 teams down to the wire, and likely should have beaten them. But it drives you crazy watching a blocked punt, end zone turnovers, fumbles, and deflection INTs. You don't see that shit happening to the Seahawks, do you?
We're close, but I'm not sure we'll be able to make a run. You don't generally find solace in Foxboro, and the weather will turn soon, making it harder to pass. You know what we effing need? To force some freaking TURNOVERS. A pick 6, fumble return for score, strip sacks, whatever. We hardly cause ANY turnovers and it's crushing us. Perhaps Denzel and Greedy will remedy the situation.
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