Freddie fired
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Well, I read it. Maybe it was the flaw in the writing. I was still confused if there was really talk about 2 people.
Now that you have had your orgasm over the fact that I admit I probably got something wrong....you can go back, maybe, to talking football. Or, will you continue to obsess over every word I write? Here is a word that I will write that you can obsess over: Psychoneurotic
"Probably" and "flaw in the writing"
You have just proven the point. You refuse to take responsibility.
Here is Flugel original post
"I wouldn't mind seeing LSU's Joe Brady get some consideration with all I'm reading and hearing about how much he has helped Joe Burrow progress from last year. Prior to that, he worked on Sean Payton's staff with Drew Brees. I'd rather see Brees as Baker's role model than Favre. I've seen 1 throw off the backwards hop too many to like hearing the Favre resemblance. We also need some brain cells in our coaching staff that understand we need to bury the shuffle pass once and for all.
Back to Joe Brady, he has NFL and college experience. Again, if I want hiring criteria to improve I'd rather see more than 2 candidates (with a gut feeling they are already leaning toward the 1 they worked with in GB). I like Mike McCarthy as a candidate; but Joe Brady's work at LSU transcended the program and the QB to the National Championship Game. Not a bad resume when you can say I was the only one that tapped Joe Burrow's QB talent; especially when we see how much he did so..."
So please Mr. Know it all, where is the flaw in that writing? Since they are BOTH named there, and there would be very minuscule chance that Joe Burrow, the QB (who was at OSU) would have worked with Payton and Brees.
And I am STILL waiting for you to reference ONE poor opinion I have had
"Probably" and "flaw in the writing"
You have just proven the point. You refuse to take responsibility.
Here is Flugel original post
"I wouldn't mind seeing LSU's Joe Brady get some consideration with all I'm reading and hearing about how much he has helped Joe Burrow progress from last year. Prior to that, he worked on Sean Payton's staff with Drew Brees. I'd rather see Brees as Baker's role model than Favre. I've seen 1 throw off the backwards hop too many to like hearing the Favre resemblance. We also need some brain cells in our coaching staff that understand we need to bury the shuffle pass once and for all.
Back to Joe Brady, he has NFL and college experience. Again, if I want hiring criteria to improve I'd rather see more than 2 candidates (with a gut feeling they are already leaning toward the 1 they worked with in GB). I like Mike McCarthy as a candidate; but Joe Brady's work at LSU transcended the program and the QB to the National Championship Game. Not a bad resume when you can say I was the only one that tapped Joe Burrow's QB talent; especially when we see how much he did so..."
So please Mr. Know it all, where is the flaw in that writing? Since they are BOTH named there, and there would be very minuscule chance that Joe Burrow, the QB (who was at OSU) would have worked with Payton and Brees.
And I am STILL waiting for you to reference ONE poor opinion I have had
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... and the DE size difference was one of my main points. Wade adapts to the talent he has. He's a better DC for doing so.
The 5th DB is often filling the role of the 3rd LB. giving rise to the hybrid role in recent years. Deion Jones is a great example of the "undersized" LB's expanded role.
Whatever the player, it does not change his role in the base D significantly. It simply shifts the area where his makeup best sets up success, i.e., pass coverage vs run stopping.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
For real.
43/34 doesn't matter. The biggest difference in defensive philosophies is gap responsibility, not front alignment. 43/34 doesn't matter, it's just something fans get hung up on.
Then color me hung up....
Roster composition is impacted. Physical demands of the DL and OLB differ and so do the physical makeup of players.
DTs differ from NTs... DEs from DEs...
st coach should also stay
Long history under some damn good HCs. Our STs were one very disciplined unit... very few penalties even of the dreaded block n the back variety.
Makes me think the guy should get an interview.
Then color me hung up....
Roster composition is impacted. Physical demands of the DL and OLB differ and so do the physical makeup of players.
DTs differ from NTs... DEs from DEs...
Long history under some damn good HCs. Our STs were one very disciplined unit... very few penalties even of the dreaded block n the back variety.
Makes me think the guy should get an interview.
Depends on how you want to build the front. When you're a 1gap team that doesn't usually have that mammoth nose or every interior body is 300+ lbs as a "classic" 34 is generally regarded. Look no further than the Rams and Wade Phillips.
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... and the DE size difference was one of my main points. Wade adapts to the talent he has. He's a better DC for doing so.
The 5th DB is often filling the role of the 3rd LB. giving rise to the hybrid role in recent years. Deion Jones is a great example of the "undersized" LB's expanded role.
Whatever the player, it does not change his role in the base D significantly. It simply shifts the area where his makeup best sets up success, i.e., pass coverage vs run stopping.
... and the DE size difference was one of my main points. Wade adapts to the talent he has. He's a better DC for doing so.
The 5th DB is often filling the role of the 3rd LB. giving rise to the hybrid role in recent years. Deion Jones is a great example of the "undersized" LB's expanded role.
Whatever the player, it does not change his role in the base D significantly. It simply shifts the area where his makeup best sets up success, i.e., pass coverage vs run stopping.
Probably one of the best DCs to do it, I’d love to have him here.
I have no doubt you understand the nuances of defensive philosophies moreso than most regular posters, my gripe is more with the common “oh god, 34 defense, we’re gonna have to get entirely new players” stance a lot of people take.
Were we to go that route, some changes would obviously occur but it’s not a full defensive reset...depending on the coordinator.
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True.... the impact today of switching between the bases would not be as great as it was earlier this century (remember Crennel trying to stand up Kenard Lange???), but it is still measurable even in the age of the amorphous D.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
"Probably" and "flaw in the writing"
You have just proven the point. You refuse to take responsibility.
Here is Flugel original post
"I wouldn't mind seeing LSU's Joe Brady get some consideration with all I'm reading and hearing about how much he has helped Joe Burrow progress from last year. Prior to that, he worked on Sean Payton's staff with Drew Brees. I'd rather see Brees as Baker's role model than Favre. I've seen 1 throw off the backwards hop too many to like hearing the Favre resemblance. We also need some brain cells in our coaching staff that understand we need to bury the shuffle pass once and for all.
Back to Joe Brady, he has NFL and college experience. Again, if I want hiring criteria to improve I'd rather see more than 2 candidates (with a gut feeling they are already leaning toward the 1 they worked with in GB). I like Mike McCarthy as a candidate; but Joe Brady's work at LSU transcended the program and the QB to the National Championship Game. Not a bad resume when you can say I was the only one that tapped Joe Burrow's QB talent; especially when we see how much he did so..."
So please Mr. Know it all, where is the flaw in that writing? Since they are BOTH named there, and there would be very minuscule chance that Joe Burrow, the QB (who was at OSU) would have worked with Payton and Brees.
And I am STILL waiting for you to reference ONE poor opinion I have had
Yep exactly. Tuck tail and run (not accept). Another EILOOHG trait
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A coordinator job is the traditional path to a head coaching position in the NFL. Unless we’re talking the Browns, in which case the head coaching job is a stepping stone to a coordinator position elsewhere.
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These are just facts, do with them what you will...
This is my attempt to bring to light the glaring (and never discussed) problem that makes the Cleveland Browns the perennial butt of jokes. I'm going to compare the first 2 seasons of some legendary NFL coaches with Browns head coaches and the "churn and burn" mentality. Oh, and I'm only doing this from 1999 to present because this is a completely different franchise from the one that Modell stole from Cleveland back in the day. Sorry, not sorry.
The average tenure of a Cleveland Browns head coach is just 1.9 seasons (Please pause to let that sink in). Since that's nearly 2 full seasons I'll give the the records of other legendary head coaches' first 2 seasons to show why teams shouldn't give up on coaches so quickly. I'll also list their championship resume to really emphasize the point:
Bill Belichick:
- First 2 Seasons as Patriots HC: 5-11 in 2000, 11-5 in 2001
- 6 Super Bowl victories
Chuck Noll:
- First 2 Seasons as Steelers HC: 1-13 in 1969, 5-9 in 1970
- 4 Super Bowl victories
Bill Walsh:
- First 2 seasons as 49ers HC: 2-14 in 1979, 6-10 in 1980
- 3 Super Bowl victories
Jimmy Johnson:
- First 2 seasons as Cowboys HC: 1-15 in 1989, 7-9 in 1990
- 2 Super Bowl victories
You get the idea. Had these teams bailed on their head coaches after one season (like Cleveland so often does) the trophy cases in New England, Pittsburgh, San Francisco, and Dallas would look A LOT different today. Maybe this is an extreme comparison but my point is that these organizations didn't just stick with these guys, they actually f&@#ing build something that could last!!!
The point I'm trying to get across is the Browns need to stick with head coaches long enough to have a winning system and culture!
Still don't believe me?!? This will blow your mind . . . There have only been TWO Browns coaches that made it a full 3 seasons as the head coach. And ya know what they did in their third season? I'll tell ya what they did!! 9-7 record and playoff appearance in 2002, 10-6 record and nearly missed playoffs in 2007 (weird year). Are you sensing a theme yet?? New England has been doing this for 2 decades with great success, Pittsburgh has only had 3 coaches since mankind first walked on the moon they're alright.
Jimmy Haslam, if you're reading this (which I doubt) please, Please, PLEASE stick with a coach long enough to BUILD A SYSTEM, stop this endless rotation of quarterbacks and coordinators, and stop embarrassing Cleveland's football legacy.
Thank you for coming to my TED Talk...
A few things:
A. Bill Belichick was not fired as the coach of the Cleveland Browns franchise. He was fired as coach of the Baltimore Modell (unnamed as yet) franchise. That is a fact.
B. The other guys you mention, Noll, Walsh, Johnson.....had shit for talent on the rosters they inherited...and they had a big hand in bringing the talent and devolping it during the first few years of their existence. It was clearly evident with those guys, that despite their losing records that they knew what they were doing. The same is not true here. It has been clearly evident that the guys we have dumped deserved to be dumped...and they were not ultimately qualified.
C. You mention the vast minority of situations. 4 coaches in the last 50 years have accomplished what you claim. That means hundreds have not. Building a system is great....if you have the product to build that system with.....and that product comes around very rarely. Those guys are the vast exception to the rule...NOT the norm. Do you want the names of those 100+ other coaches that didn't do a thing?
A few things:
A. Bill Belichick was not fired as the coach of the Cleveland Browns franchise. He was fired as coach of the Baltimore Modell (unnamed as yet) franchise. That is a fact.
B. The other guys you mention, Noll, Walsh, Johnson.....had shit for talent on the rosters they inherited...and they had a big hand in bringing the talent and devolping it during the first few years of their existence. It was clearly evident with those guys, that despite their losing records that they knew what they were doing. The same is not true here. It has been clearly evident that the guys we have dumped deserved to be dumped...and they were not ultimately qualified.
C. You mention the vast minority of situations. 4 coaches in the last 50 years have accomplished what you claim. That means hundreds have not. Building a system is great....if you have the product to build that system with.....and that product comes around very rarely. Those guys are the vast exception to the rule...NOT the norm. Do you want the names of those 100+ other coaches that didn't do a thing?
A. You're right about Belichick. I was only including coaches from the current franchise, 1999 to present
B. Not every coach is a winner but it was clear Butch Davis and Romeo Crennel were building something. I know we're supposed to say they stunk as a general rule but longevity and their football IQ were showing promise.
C. You say building a system is great so long as you have the product to build with but you already mentioned Noll, Walsh, and Johnson had shit to work. Nevertheless they all powered through. Coaches need to be given more of a chance to build a system for a franchise.
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All you need to see is the side-by-side comparison to other franchises that started around the same time the Browns did. There is a clear correlation between number of head coaches the Browns burned through and their winning percentage vs that of the Jags/Panthers/Texans and what they've accomplished. Cleveland is seriously falling behind it's counterparts.
I realize Freddie was a mistake but constantly firing head coaches isn't the solution to the Browns problems, it IS the problem!
Say what you will but sources (
) have reported guys like Urban Meyer and others are not interested in being the next head coach. Why would they be? The best coaches don't want to go to a job where they will not be given the time or resources to have a long and successful career. Even a team like the Raiders are a joke but if there was one thing that made John Gruden give up his cushy TV job it was the 10 year contract he was offered. Stability and longevity aren't words you typically associate with the Raiders, that's all changed now and it's starting the show. -
All you need to see is the side-by-side comparison to other franchises that started around the same time the Browns did. There is a clear correlation between number of head coaches the Browns burned through and their winning percentage vs that of the Jags/Panthers/Texans and what they've accomplished. Cleveland is seriously falling behind it's counterparts.
I realize Freddie was a mistake but constantly firing head coaches isn't the solution to the Browns problems, it IS the problem!
Say what you will but sources (
) have reported guys like Urban Meyer and others are not interested in being the next head coach. Why would they be? The best coaches don't want to go to a job where they will not be given the time or resources to have a long and successful career. Even a team like the Raiders are a joke but if there was one thing that made John Gruden give up his cushy TV job it was the 10 year contract he was offered. Stability and longevity aren't words you typically associate with the Raiders, that's all changed now and it's starting the show.
All you need to see is the side-by-side comparison to other franchises that started around the same time the Browns did. There is a clear correlation between number of head coaches the Browns burned through and their winning percentage vs that of the Jags/Panthers/Texans and what they've accomplished. Cleveland is seriously falling behind it's counterparts.
I realize Freddie was a mistake but constantly firing head coaches isn't the solution to the Browns problems, it IS the problem!
Say what you will but sources (
) have reported guys like Urban Meyer and others are not interested in being the next head coach. Why would they be? The best coaches don't want to go to a job where they will not be given the time or resources to have a long and successful career. Even a team like the Raiders are a joke but if there was one thing that made John Gruden give up his cushy TV job it was the 10 year contract he was offered. Stability and longevity aren't words you typically associate with the Raiders, that's all changed now and it's starting the show.Couple of things that will arouse the ire of a lot of Browns fans....
1) From your previous post
" Not every coach is a winner but it was clear Butch Davis and Romeo Crennel were building something. I know we're supposed to say they stunk as a general rule but longevity and their football IQ were showing promise."
In case you forgot- Crennel sucked for two years as the HC of Kansas City afterwards. He's a great defensive coordinator, but a lousy head coach. Butch Davis never got another NFL HC gig.
2) Screw that chart- the Browns FRANCHISE was founded in 1946. They came back as a new TEAM in 1999.
There's a damn good reason both the Panthers and Jaguars have done better. They were given a lot more time to get their act together than the Browns were in 1999. Not only that, the expansion draft and regular draft picks they were given were FAR superior to what the Browns got. The NFL owners decided both those franchises got too good, too fast- and stuck it to the Browns. With the time constraints- Cleveland assembled a front office that was behind the 8 ball from the start. It didn't help Al Lerner died shortly after the Browns rebirth, and son Randy was more interested in his Aston Villa soccer team than he was in the Browns- and he proved to be as lousy running a soccer franchise as he was an NFL team. Enter Jimmy Haslam, with lots of money, and little experience running an NFL franchise- so little- if you remember the NFL had to hand pick his front office (Joe Banner & others) for him. So who knows if Jimmy will learn from past mistakes this time.
One thing is for certain- and it's not my opinion, it's also from anyone who knows anything- Freddie Kitchens was monumentally unqualified to be a head coach in the NFL. Too far, too fast. The players certainly didn't respect him (ditto some of the coaches, if you caught what Monken has been saying lately) and his play calling and time management thinking were so far out of they box he was given a box with his belongings and told to get out of town...... Just meant to be a puppet for John Dorsey, who also is currently out of a job for promoting Freddie, over objections of others in the front office....
PS- there's links to some terrific articles in another thread explaining why Haslam was 100% correct in asking Dorsey to accept a demotion. He was too proud to admit his mistakes- (Kitchens being the big one, but there were others) and went home.
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All you need to see is the side-by-side comparison to other franchises that started around the same time the Browns did. There is a clear correlation between number of head coaches the Browns burned through and their winning percentage vs that of the Jags/Panthers/Texans and what they've accomplished. Cleveland is seriously falling behind it's counterparts.
I realize Freddie was a mistake but constantly firing head coaches isn't the solution to the Browns problems, it IS the problem!
Say what you will but sources (
) have reported guys like Urban Meyer and others are not interested in being the next head coach. Why would they be? The best coaches don't want to go to a job where they will not be given the time or resources to have a long and successful career. Even a team like the Raiders are a joke but if there was one thing that made John Gruden give up his cushy TV job it was the 10 year contract he was offered. Stability and longevity aren't words you typically associate with the Raiders, that's all changed now and it's starting the show.
All you need to see is the side-by-side comparison to other franchises that started around the same time the Browns did. There is a clear correlation between number of head coaches the Browns burned through and their winning percentage vs that of the Jags/Panthers/Texans and what they've accomplished. Cleveland is seriously falling behind it's counterparts.
I realize Freddie was a mistake but constantly firing head coaches isn't the solution to the Browns problems, it IS the problem!
Say what you will but sources (
) have reported guys like Urban Meyer and others are not interested in being the next head coach. Why would they be? The best coaches don't want to go to a job where they will not be given the time or resources to have a long and successful career. Even a team like the Raiders are a joke but if there was one thing that made John Gruden give up his cushy TV job it was the 10 year contract he was offered. Stability and longevity aren't words you typically associate with the Raiders, that's all changed now and it's starting the show.Compare franchise it started around the time the Browns did? Ok how many have won 8 Championships since 1946?
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The answer to the above question is exactly none. Only the Packers who won 7 are within 1.
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