Baker Mayfield
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I’ve been critical of Baker. I thought our Player Caller and QB let us down last year the most.
And most of us pointed to the play caller and the offensive line. But Baker played poorly last season.
He has a few flaws. He needs to keep his eyes downfield when he’s moving around in the pocket. He needs to do a better job with his reads. Sometimes he unnecessarily hurries himself and his mechanics are off and his ball sails on him. He has also had some very good moments.
644286.8TDs. INTs. QB Rating.
RIGHT NOW I can’t put him bottom third but I think I could put him squarely in the middle. He’s developing definitely not a finished product
Here's the thing. Everybody needs to look at Big Ben's numbers for his first few years. Then, think about what Baker would do if he EVER had a defense behind him. What would Baker look like playing for Pittsburgh? He'd be unstoppable.
Fix the defense, help Baker. Our defense resembles a gaggle of pusscakes with Myles and Denzel hanging out with them.
Here's the thing. Everybody needs to look at Big Ben's numbers for his first few years. Then, think about what Baker would do if he EVER had a defense behind him. What would Baker look like playing for Pittsburgh? He'd be unstoppable.
Fix the defense, help Baker. Our defense resembles a gaggle of pusscakes with Myles and Denzel hanging out with them.
A better defense helps the team.
Baker has some areas to cleanup where fixing our defensive personnel or changing our scheme or making better use of the scheme we have - these really have nothing to do with Baker refining his skills or getting wiser to the position.
Time, continuity and hard work at his craft should help Baker
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By definition, to be average Baker would be somewhere around the 15th or 16th best QB in the NFL. Do you think he is?
Let's look. By the ratings (and I realize you can argue the ratings alone doesn't always tell the full story but it's a good start)...
R. Wilson
Mahomes
Rogers
Carr
Tannehill
D. Watson
Brees
Herbert
Brady
J. Allen
Big Ben
Dak
Kyle Allen
Bridgewater
N. Mullens
M. Ryan
Rivers
Fitzpatrick
Stafford
Goff
Minshew
L. Jackson
K. Murray
Jimmy G
Cousins
Burrow
Baker
Tua
Kaskins
Foles
Driskel
Tyrod Taylor
Dan Jones
Cam Newton
Wentz
That puts him at 27, which is far below average. And looking at the order of the list, it passes my eye test as far as being accurate in determining quality of play. I'd move a few up or down a few spots, but it's pretty on the $.
So even if you can argue Baker maybe a few spots better, he's still around the 25th best or so. Is that acceptable for the 1st pick overall in the draft halfway through his 3rd season? If the Browns were told,"By his 3rd season, Baker will be the 27th rated passer" would they have taken him #1 overall?
Of course, I am in no way suggesting now would be the time for a change, no way. He gets at least this season to show what he has got, barring him just falling of a cliff, especially considering we have to see of the passing game blossoms without forcing it to OBJ so often. (But others say the passing attack will suffer sans OBJ.) The 2nd half of this season is huge in determining Baker's future. As things stand, his last year option is probably safe, but if he doesn't ascend from where he is now, a big, new franchise QB deal is not likely. Baker, it's time. You are at a crossroad.
Hold on a full minute. While it can certainly be said Baker is below average, using this list and saying its accurate is asinine.
Especially when considering that it obviously is only factoring in this half a season. But hey, instead of just throwing out this list, lets look at a few to show how truly wrong it is.
Do you believe Carr is the #4 quarterback in the league? Tannehill 5th? Kyle Allen 13th? Mullens 15th? Lamar 22nd? Kyler 23rd? Burrow 26th? Wentz 35th?
In a real perspective, Baker is somewhere around 20.
Seriously, Minshew is RANKED AHEAD of last years MVP, Laat years #1 pick and ROY
If this passes the eye test to you, then you know very little. What my eyes tell me is that you just don't like the Browns. Everything you post is negative. Which is fine, but just go ahead and admit it or don't be offended when you continue to look like you are trolling.
Hold on a full minute. While it can certainly be said Baker is below average, using this list and saying its accurate is asinine.
Especially when considering that it obviously is only factoring in this half a season. But hey, instead of just throwing out this list, lets look at a few to show how truly wrong it is.
Do you believe Carr is the #4 quarterback in the league? Tannehill 5th? Kyle Allen 13th? Mullens 15th? Lamar 22nd? Kyler 23rd? Burrow 26th? Wentz 35th?
In a real perspective, Baker is somewhere around 20.
Seriously, Minshew is RANKED AHEAD of last years MVP, Laat years #1 pick and ROY
If this passes the eye test to you, then you know very little. What my eyes tell me is that you just don't like the Browns. Everything you post is negative. Which is fine, but just go ahead and admit it or don't be offended when you continue to look like you are trolling.
I already said it was not the perfect rating system at the very top. And, you go on to admit Baker is realistically around 20th...there are 32 starting QBs, plus a few who later became starters later. If Baker is 20th, that would put him at below average. So, while claiming to disagree with the premise you then conclude the same thing - that Baker is below average.
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By definition, to be average Baker would be somewhere around the 15th or 16th best QB in the NFL. Do you think he is?
Let's look. By the ratings (and I realize you can argue the ratings alone doesn't always tell the full story but it's a good start)...
R. Wilson
Mahomes
Rogers
Carr
Tannehill
D. Watson
Brees
Herbert
Brady
J. Allen
Big Ben
Dak
Kyle Allen
Bridgewater
N. Mullens
M. Ryan
Rivers
Fitzpatrick
Stafford
Goff
Minshew
L. Jackson
K. Murray
Jimmy G
Cousins
Burrow
Baker
Tua
Kaskins
Foles
Driskel
Tyrod Taylor
Dan Jones
Cam Newton
Wentz
That puts him at 27, which is far below average. And looking at the order of the list, it passes my eye test as far as being accurate in determining quality of play. I'd move a few up or down a few spots, but it's pretty on the $.
So even if you can argue Baker maybe a few spots better, he's still around the 25th best or so. Is that acceptable for the 1st pick overall in the draft halfway through his 3rd season? If the Browns were told,"By his 3rd season, Baker will be the 27th rated passer" would they have taken him #1 overall?
Of course, I am in no way suggesting now would be the time for a change, no way. He gets at least this season to show what he has got, barring him just falling of a cliff, especially considering we have to see of the passing game blossoms without forcing it to OBJ so often. (But others say the passing attack will suffer sans OBJ.) The 2nd half of this season is huge in determining Baker's future. As things stand, his last year option is probably safe, but if he doesn't ascend from where he is now, a big, new franchise QB deal is not likely. Baker, it's time. You are at a crossroad.
By definition, to be average Baker would be somewhere around the 15th or 16th best QB in the NFL. Do you think he is?
Let's look. By the ratings (and I realize you can argue the ratings alone doesn't always tell the full story but it's a good start)...
R. Wilson
Mahomes
Rogers
Carr
Tannehill
D. Watson
Brees
Herbert
Brady
J. Allen
Big Ben
Dak
Kyle Allen
Bridgewater
N. Mullens
M. Ryan
Rivers
Fitzpatrick
Stafford
Goff
Minshew
L. Jackson
K. Murray
Jimmy G
Cousins
Burrow
Baker
Tua
Kaskins
Foles
Driskel
Tyrod Taylor
Dan Jones
Cam Newton
Wentz
That puts him at 27, which is far below average. And looking at the order of the list, it passes my eye test as far as being accurate in determining quality of play. I'd move a few up or down a few spots, but it's pretty on the $.
So even if you can argue Baker maybe a few spots better, he's still around the 25th best or so. Is that acceptable for the 1st pick overall in the draft halfway through his 3rd season? If the Browns were told,"By his 3rd season, Baker will be the 27th rated passer" would they have taken him #1 overall?
Of course, I am in no way suggesting now would be the time for a change, no way. He gets at least this season to show what he has got, barring him just falling of a cliff, especially considering we have to see of the passing game blossoms without forcing it to OBJ so often. (But others say the passing attack will suffer sans OBJ.) The 2nd half of this season is huge in determining Baker's future. As things stand, his last year option is probably safe, but if he doesn't ascend from where he is now, a big, new franchise QB deal is not likely. Baker, it's time. You are at a crossroad.
right now he is under the gun....they had gm berry on espn.....it was a clip from what looked like some kind of presser this week or maybe late last week....it appears right now they are not going to pick up the last yr of his contract....baker really needs to pick it up in the second half......my guess is berry is seeing the other 3 qb's in the division doing quite well....this burrow kid....look out......if the bengals do it right, i can see them leapfrogging way past us and the ravens in the very near future....and when ben retires, maybe even them......berry sees all this i am sure...
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Hold on a full minute. While it can certainly be said Baker is below average, using this list and saying its accurate is asinine.
Especially when considering that it obviously is only factoring in this half a season. But hey, instead of just throwing out this list, lets look at a few to show how truly wrong it is.
Do you believe Carr is the #4 quarterback in the league? Tannehill 5th? Kyle Allen 13th? Mullens 15th? Lamar 22nd? Kyler 23rd? Burrow 26th? Wentz 35th?
In a real perspective, Baker is somewhere around 20.
Seriously, Minshew is RANKED AHEAD of last years MVP, Laat years #1 pick and ROY
If this passes the eye test to you, then you know very little. What my eyes tell me is that you just don't like the Browns. Everything you post is negative. Which is fine, but just go ahead and admit it or don't be offended when you continue to look like you are trolling.
I already said it was not the perfect rating system at the very top. And, you go on to admit Baker is realistically around 20th...there are 32 starting QBs, plus a few who later became starters later. If Baker is 20th, that would put him at below average. So, while claiming to disagree with the premise you then conclude the same thing - that Baker is below average.
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Guess it depends on how you want to look at it. This team just made the statement they are more worried about the future than they are this year buy doing nothing to fix the defense, so if you break down the top ten, personally there are only 3 QB’s on that list that I would swap for Baker right now...
Mahomes, Watson and Wilson
obviously if you turn back the clock or change team strategy to win now, you’d add in
Brady, Rodgers and Brees
But those guys could be a year or major injury away from being retired.
Carr and Tannehill are a pass, and Allen has some moments but has the accuracy of a knuckle ball in the wind....
Herbert would be a push based on his 5 game career so far.
If you expand out on the next 10, based on the same criteria I’d probably swap Baker for Ryan and probably Dak but I’d have to think pretty hard. Stafford.... meh I don’t know....I’d probably pass.
then the rest of the way out you have guys like Lamar and Murray who kind of have to have a offense tailored to their play style, so I guess it depends with those kind of guys, I have friends that love that kind of play and others that can’t stand it, (I’d hate to have a running type QB and have to hold your breath when he takes hits game after game and their shelf life is questionable)
After that I’d say Burrow is the last candidate, who some are super high on, but throws 45+ times a game and has 11 TD’s all season.... 6 against Cleveland’s “Defense”... Baker haters say hell ya give me Burrow, I haven’t seen enough yet, so I’d say push.
you wanna win right now? Then turn that list on its ear and go for a high powered Vet.
If I were Berry, I’d extend the contract, build my team for two more years, see what he ends up looking like make a call in his 5th year to trade or resign.
Going off that list of swaps and maybes, that puts Baker at about 12-15 QB in the league. I’d say average to above average is a good estimate.Considering the Browns usual “shit sandwich to soggy shit sandwich” QB play....
Guess it depends on how you want to look at it. This team just made the statement they are more worried about the future than they are this year buy doing nothing to fix the defense, so if you break down the top ten, personally there are only 3 QB’s on that list that I would swap for Baker right now...
Mahomes, Watson and Wilson
obviously if you turn back the clock or change team strategy to win now, you’d add in
Brady, Rodgers and Brees
But those guys could be a year or major injury away from being retired.
Carr and Tannehill are a pass, and Allen has some moments but has the accuracy of a knuckle ball in the wind....
Herbert would be a push based on his 5 game career so far.
If you expand out on the next 10, based on the same criteria I’d probably swap Baker for Ryan and probably Dak but I’d have to think pretty hard. Stafford.... meh I don’t know....I’d probably pass.
then the rest of the way out you have guys like Lamar and Murray who kind of have to have a offense tailored to their play style, so I guess it depends with those kind of guys, I have friends that love that kind of play and others that can’t stand it, (I’d hate to have a running type QB and have to hold your breath when he takes hits game after game and their shelf life is questionable)
After that I’d say Burrow is the last candidate, who some are super high on, but throws 45+ times a game and has 11 TD’s all season.... 6 against Cleveland’s “Defense”... Baker haters say hell ya give me Burrow, I haven’t seen enough yet, so I’d say push.
you wanna win right now? Then turn that list on its ear and go for a high powered Vet.
If I were Berry, I’d extend the contract, build my team for two more years, see what he ends up looking like make a call in his 5th year to trade or resign.
Going off that list of swaps and maybes, that puts Baker at about 12-15 QB in the league. I’d say average to above average is a good estimate.Considering the Browns usual “shit sandwich to soggy shit sandwich” QB play....
if the bengals get it right, they will be quite good very soon.....they have a winner at qb for sure.....
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Guess it depends on how you want to look at it. This team just made the statement they are more worried about the future than they are this year buy doing nothing to fix the defense, so if you break down the top ten, personally there are only 3 QB’s on that list that I would swap for Baker right now...
Mahomes, Watson and Wilson
obviously if you turn back the clock or change team strategy to win now, you’d add in
Brady, Rodgers and Brees
But those guys could be a year or major injury away from being retired.
Carr and Tannehill are a pass, and Allen has some moments but has the accuracy of a knuckle ball in the wind....
Herbert would be a push based on his 5 game career so far.
If you expand out on the next 10, based on the same criteria I’d probably swap Baker for Ryan and probably Dak but I’d have to think pretty hard. Stafford.... meh I don’t know....I’d probably pass.
then the rest of the way out you have guys like Lamar and Murray who kind of have to have a offense tailored to their play style, so I guess it depends with those kind of guys, I have friends that love that kind of play and others that can’t stand it, (I’d hate to have a running type QB and have to hold your breath when he takes hits game after game and their shelf life is questionable)
After that I’d say Burrow is the last candidate, who some are super high on, but throws 45+ times a game and has 11 TD’s all season.... 6 against Cleveland’s “Defense”... Baker haters say hell ya give me Burrow, I haven’t seen enough yet, so I’d say push.
you wanna win right now? Then turn that list on its ear and go for a high powered Vet.
If I were Berry, I’d extend the contract, build my team for two more years, see what he ends up looking like make a call in his 5th year to trade or resign.
Going off that list of swaps and maybes, that puts Baker at about 12-15 QB in the league. I’d say average to above average is a good estimate.Considering the Browns usual “shit sandwich to soggy shit sandwich” QB play....
if the bengals get it right, they will be quite good very soon.....they have a winner at qb for sure.....
if the bengals get it right, they will be quite good very soon.....they have a winner at qb for sure.....
Not only did they just beat a very good TN team, they've been right in every game so far but one. If their coach is at least decent, and Mike Brown can say enough out of the way, Cinci can at least ascend to out of the "clown" realm, into something at least comparable to the earlier Red Rifle era, where they had 5 winning seasons, or the Palmer era, where they were a playoff team, or the Boomer years, where they were a legit winning club.
If I had to guess, I'd predict Burrow will go down as a better QB than Baker, over both careers. But a lot of football to be played before we know. Both are 1st picks overall. Will both be deemed worthy of it?
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Hold on a full minute. While it can certainly be said Baker is below average, using this list and saying its accurate is asinine.
Especially when considering that it obviously is only factoring in this half a season. But hey, instead of just throwing out this list, lets look at a few to show how truly wrong it is.
Do you believe Carr is the #4 quarterback in the league? Tannehill 5th? Kyle Allen 13th? Mullens 15th? Lamar 22nd? Kyler 23rd? Burrow 26th? Wentz 35th?
In a real perspective, Baker is somewhere around 20.
Seriously, Minshew is RANKED AHEAD of last years MVP, Laat years #1 pick and ROY
If this passes the eye test to you, then you know very little. What my eyes tell me is that you just don't like the Browns. Everything you post is negative. Which is fine, but just go ahead and admit it or don't be offended when you continue to look like you are trolling.
I already said it was not the perfect rating system at the very top. And, you go on to admit Baker is realistically around 20th...there are 32 starting QBs, plus a few who later became starters later. If Baker is 20th, that would put him at below average. So, while claiming to disagree with the premise you then conclude the same thing - that Baker is below average.
I already said it was not the perfect rating system at the very top. And, you go on to admit Baker is realistically around 20th...there are 32 starting QBs, plus a few who later became starters later. If Baker is 20th, that would put him at below average. So, while claiming to disagree with the premise you then conclude the same thing - that Baker is below average.
No pal, I didn't disagree with the overall premise (but there is also a decent size difference in 20 and 27) what I am disagreeing with is the resources you want to use to justify a claim, the exact thing I said about Colin. And you absolutely didn't say "not perfect at the very top", at least not in what I replied to.
YOU are the one who posted this, and this was YOUR WORDS "And looking at the order of the list, it passes my eye test as far as being accurate in determining quality of play. I'd move a few up or down a few spots, but it's pretty on the $.
So, since you want to use the term average literally, we will use the work few literally, which is 3.
Which of these do you agree with?
Carr Top 7
Tannehill Top 8
Herbert Top 11
Josh Allen Top 13
Kyle Allen Top 16
Mullens Top 18
Lamar Highest 19
Kyler Highest Top 20
Wentz Highest 32nd.
See my issue with this and a lot of what you use is that you see one part you agree with and run with it and post. And since part of it is true then it makes it true to you. The same thing with CC. All I am saying is that a single focal point without viewing the entire picture makes you appear to have an agenda and uninformed.
That appears to be the reason when I do get on here and read the responses to you when you post things about OBJ. It appears as if you have an agenda, as CC does with Baker. Its the reason he runs to discredit anything positive and leaps at the chance to post anything negative.
You haven't seen me defend Baker or OBJ, all I have done is point out hypocritical statements.
But let me point out one thing, you can call it defending if you want, but its really not. Since these rankings are based off of this year, 11 of those 26 QBs above Baker have a better record than him. 2 Teams have given up more points than the Browns (one of them winless Jets by 1 Point). 9 teams have scored more than the Browns. So couldn't I use my numbers to make him look A LOT better than 27th?
Now I am positive you don't care how you come off, don't care what others say or reply to you, etc.
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Eventually, everyone who posts on this forum will realize Icecube is a troll.
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I already said it was not the perfect rating system at the very top. And, you go on to admit Baker is realistically around 20th...there are 32 starting QBs, plus a few who later became starters later. If Baker is 20th, that would put him at below average. So, while claiming to disagree with the premise you then conclude the same thing - that Baker is below average.
No pal, I didn't disagree with the overall premise (but there is also a decent size difference in 20 and 27) what I am disagreeing with is the resources you want to use to justify a claim, the exact thing I said about Colin. And you absolutely didn't say "not perfect at the very top", at least not in what I replied to.
YOU are the one who posted this, and this was YOUR WORDS "And looking at the order of the list, it passes my eye test as far as being accurate in determining quality of play. I'd move a few up or down a few spots, but it's pretty on the $.
So, since you want to use the term average literally, we will use the work few literally, which is 3.
Which of these do you agree with?
Carr Top 7
Tannehill Top 8
Herbert Top 11
Josh Allen Top 13
Kyle Allen Top 16
Mullens Top 18
Lamar Highest 19
Kyler Highest Top 20
Wentz Highest 32nd.
See my issue with this and a lot of what you use is that you see one part you agree with and run with it and post. And since part of it is true then it makes it true to you. The same thing with CC. All I am saying is that a single focal point without viewing the entire picture makes you appear to have an agenda and uninformed.
That appears to be the reason when I do get on here and read the responses to you when you post things about OBJ. It appears as if you have an agenda, as CC does with Baker. Its the reason he runs to discredit anything positive and leaps at the chance to post anything negative.
You haven't seen me defend Baker or OBJ, all I have done is point out hypocritical statements.
But let me point out one thing, you can call it defending if you want, but its really not. Since these rankings are based off of this year, 11 of those 26 QBs above Baker have a better record than him. 2 Teams have given up more points than the Browns (one of them winless Jets by 1 Point). 9 teams have scored more than the Browns. So couldn't I use my numbers to make him look A LOT better than 27th?
Now I am positive you don't care how you come off, don't care what others say or reply to you, etc.
No pal, I didn't disagree with the overall premise (but there is also a decent size difference in 20 and 27) what I am disagreeing with is the resources you want to use to justify a claim, the exact thing I said about Colin. And you absolutely didn't say "not perfect at the very top", at least not in what I replied to.
YOU are the one who posted this, and this was YOUR WORDS "And looking at the order of the list, it passes my eye test as far as being accurate in determining quality of play. I'd move a few up or down a few spots, but it's pretty on the $.
So, since you want to use the term average literally, we will use the work few literally, which is 3.
Which of these do you agree with?
Carr Top 7
Tannehill Top 8
Herbert Top 11
Josh Allen Top 13
Kyle Allen Top 16
Mullens Top 18
Lamar Highest 19
Kyler Highest Top 20
Wentz Highest 32nd.
See my issue with this and a lot of what you use is that you see one part you agree with and run with it and post. And since part of it is true then it makes it true to you. The same thing with CC. All I am saying is that a single focal point without viewing the entire picture makes you appear to have an agenda and uninformed.
That appears to be the reason when I do get on here and read the responses to you when you post things about OBJ. It appears as if you have an agenda, as CC does with Baker. Its the reason he runs to discredit anything positive and leaps at the chance to post anything negative.
You haven't seen me defend Baker or OBJ, all I have done is point out hypocritical statements.
But let me point out one thing, you can call it defending if you want, but its really not. Since these rankings are based off of this year, 11 of those 26 QBs above Baker have a better record than him. 2 Teams have given up more points than the Browns (one of them winless Jets by 1 Point). 9 teams have scored more than the Browns. So couldn't I use my numbers to make him look A LOT better than 27th?
Now I am positive you don't care how you come off, don't care what others say or reply to you, etc.
You got that part right. It's just not that important to me. These are just anonymous names in cyberspace about a sport that, come the end of the day, isn't that meaningful. It is entertainment, as is posting on sports message boards.
I don't have the time or desire to "prove things" on the level of a court of law. As a matter of fact. I would normally base my assessment purely on the "eye test" and leave it at that, not even bothering to go into data such as QB rating. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Everyone is allowed to support previous opinions. But at the end of the day, of you use a first overall pick on any player, they really should be at least top 5 amongst their position by their 3rd season, not even in a debate about being at least average. If you think Baker is better than all but 4 QBs, then God bless, son. You have the right to your opinion. Mahomes, Russell, Rogers, Brady, Big Ben, Dak, Brees, Wentz, Carr, Herbert, Murray, etc. may not agree, but hey man, we all have our opinions.
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No pal, I didn't disagree with the overall premise (but there is also a decent size difference in 20 and 27) what I am disagreeing with is the resources you want to use to justify a claim, the exact thing I said about Colin. And you absolutely didn't say "not perfect at the very top", at least not in what I replied to.
YOU are the one who posted this, and this was YOUR WORDS "And looking at the order of the list, it passes my eye test as far as being accurate in determining quality of play. I'd move a few up or down a few spots, but it's pretty on the $.
So, since you want to use the term average literally, we will use the work few literally, which is 3.
Which of these do you agree with?
Carr Top 7
Tannehill Top 8
Herbert Top 11
Josh Allen Top 13
Kyle Allen Top 16
Mullens Top 18
Lamar Highest 19
Kyler Highest Top 20
Wentz Highest 32nd.
See my issue with this and a lot of what you use is that you see one part you agree with and run with it and post. And since part of it is true then it makes it true to you. The same thing with CC. All I am saying is that a single focal point without viewing the entire picture makes you appear to have an agenda and uninformed.
That appears to be the reason when I do get on here and read the responses to you when you post things about OBJ. It appears as if you have an agenda, as CC does with Baker. Its the reason he runs to discredit anything positive and leaps at the chance to post anything negative.
You haven't seen me defend Baker or OBJ, all I have done is point out hypocritical statements.
But let me point out one thing, you can call it defending if you want, but its really not. Since these rankings are based off of this year, 11 of those 26 QBs above Baker have a better record than him. 2 Teams have given up more points than the Browns (one of them winless Jets by 1 Point). 9 teams have scored more than the Browns. So couldn't I use my numbers to make him look A LOT better than 27th?
Now I am positive you don't care how you come off, don't care what others say or reply to you, etc.
You got that part right. It's just not that important to me. These are just anonymous names in cyberspace about a sport that, come the end of the day, isn't that meaningful. It is entertainment, as is posting on sports message boards.
I don't have the time or desire to "prove things" on the level of a court of law. As a matter of fact. I would normally base my assessment purely on the "eye test" and leave it at that, not even bothering to go into data such as QB rating. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Everyone is allowed to support previous opinions. But at the end of the day, of you use a first overall pick on any player, they really should be at least top 5 amongst their position by their 3rd season, not even in a debate about being at least average. If you think Baker is better than all but 4 QBs, then God bless, son. You have the right to your opinion. Mahomes, Russell, Rogers, Brady, Big Ben, Dak, Brees, Wentz, Carr, Herbert, Murray, etc. may not agree, but hey man, we all have our opinions.
I don't have the time or desire to "prove things"
And that's why your opinions are horse shit.
You lack the curiosity to learn new things.. which means you have zero actual understanding of anything you're blathering on about.. because you've never done the hard work to learn anything about sports [specifically football] or education or for that matter life in general.
Sure, you clearly have pride in yourself - but what is that pride based on? Your opinions are ridiculously uninformed nonsense. You have a right to an opinion, but not a right to someone else's respect as a result of [or agreement with] that opinion.
We are all dumber for reading anything you post.
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
No pal, I didn't disagree with the overall premise (but there is also a decent size difference in 20 and 27) what I am disagreeing with is the resources you want to use to justify a claim, the exact thing I said about Colin. And you absolutely didn't say "not perfect at the very top", at least not in what I replied to.
YOU are the one who posted this, and this was YOUR WORDS "And looking at the order of the list, it passes my eye test as far as being accurate in determining quality of play. I'd move a few up or down a few spots, but it's pretty on the $.
So, since you want to use the term average literally, we will use the work few literally, which is 3.
Which of these do you agree with?
Carr Top 7
Tannehill Top 8
Herbert Top 11
Josh Allen Top 13
Kyle Allen Top 16
Mullens Top 18
Lamar Highest 19
Kyler Highest Top 20
Wentz Highest 32nd.
See my issue with this and a lot of what you use is that you see one part you agree with and run with it and post. And since part of it is true then it makes it true to you. The same thing with CC. All I am saying is that a single focal point without viewing the entire picture makes you appear to have an agenda and uninformed.
That appears to be the reason when I do get on here and read the responses to you when you post things about OBJ. It appears as if you have an agenda, as CC does with Baker. Its the reason he runs to discredit anything positive and leaps at the chance to post anything negative.
You haven't seen me defend Baker or OBJ, all I have done is point out hypocritical statements.
But let me point out one thing, you can call it defending if you want, but its really not. Since these rankings are based off of this year, 11 of those 26 QBs above Baker have a better record than him. 2 Teams have given up more points than the Browns (one of them winless Jets by 1 Point). 9 teams have scored more than the Browns. So couldn't I use my numbers to make him look A LOT better than 27th?
Now I am positive you don't care how you come off, don't care what others say or reply to you, etc.
You got that part right. It's just not that important to me. These are just anonymous names in cyberspace about a sport that, come the end of the day, isn't that meaningful. It is entertainment, as is posting on sports message boards.
I don't have the time or desire to "prove things" on the level of a court of law. As a matter of fact. I would normally base my assessment purely on the "eye test" and leave it at that, not even bothering to go into data such as QB rating. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Everyone is allowed to support previous opinions. But at the end of the day, of you use a first overall pick on any player, they really should be at least top 5 amongst their position by their 3rd season, not even in a debate about being at least average. If you think Baker is better than all but 4 QBs, then God bless, son. You have the right to your opinion. Mahomes, Russell, Rogers, Brady, Big Ben, Dak, Brees, Wentz, Carr, Herbert, Murray, etc. may not agree, but hey man, we all have our opinions.
You got that part right. It's just not that important to me. These are just anonymous names in cyberspace about a sport that, come the end of the day, isn't that meaningful. It is entertainment, as is posting on sports message boards.
I don't have the time or desire to "prove things" on the level of a court of law. As a matter of fact. I would normally base my assessment purely on the "eye test" and leave it at that, not even bothering to go into data such as QB rating. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Everyone is allowed to support previous opinions. But at the end of the day, of you use a first overall pick on any player, they really should be at least top 5 amongst their position by their 3rd season, not even in a debate about being at least average. If you think Baker is better than all but 4 QBs, then God bless, son. You have the right to your opinion. Mahomes, Russell, Rogers, Brady, Big Ben, Dak, Brees, Wentz, Carr, Herbert, Murray, etc. may not agree, but hey man, we all have our opinions.
You see sir, NOBODY has said he is in the Top 5. But you just completely blew up and proved my point in this last message.
Again, YOU said this passes your eye test on accuracy. And in this last message you listed 11 QBs, one of which is listed EIGTH SPOTS BEHIND BAKER in your original post.
But let's go ahead and go off your ASSumption that by year 3 a guy should be Top 5 at his position. Let's use the NFL Top 100 players as a reference.
QB: Lamar, Russell, Mahomes, Brees, Brady. Others who then wouldn't be worth it based on YOUR STATEMENT- Rodgers, Watson, Dak, Cousins Tannehill, J Allen, Kyler (take him out as 2nd year)
RB: McCaffrey, Henry, Cook, Zeke, Barkley. Others- Jones, Chubb, Kamara, Ingram, Gurley, Jacobs (2nd year)
WR: Thomas, Hopkins, Jones, Hill, Evans. Others who aren't "Top 5"- Godwin, Cooper, Diggs, Adams, OBJ, Landry, Lockett, Fitzgerald, Allen, Metcalf (2nd year), Kupp, Robinson
DL: Donald, N Bosa, Jordan, J Bosa, Hunter. Those not Top 5- Clowney, JJ Watt, Jones, Buckner, Casey, Cox, Campbell, MYLES GARRETT, Heyward, Jarrett, Clark
LB: Wagner, Jones, Mack, TJ Watt, Miller. Those unworthy guys- Barrett, Z Smith, Leonard, P Smith, Davis, Warner, Kendricks, Smith, David
DB: Gilmore, Adams, Sherman, Fitzpatrick, Ramsey. Not Top 5- Mathieu, White, Peters, Ryan, Smith, Thomas, Lattimore, Humphrey, Slay, B Baker
Now do you see how ridiculous you sound by using Top 5. And by the way, these are voted on by the PLAYERS. SINCE they have been in the league at least 3 years, by your own words then this is a terrible team
Aaron Rodgers, Alvin Kamara, Chris Godwin, Devante Adams, Chandler Jones, Myles Garrett, Shaq Barrett, Tredavious White and Marlon Humphrey
All you had to do was admit that you were wrong in equating the entire list as being accurate, but nope, just like you do with Browns players and posts you dug and made it look even worse.
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I don't have the time or desire to "prove things"
And that's why your opinions are horse shit.
You lack the curiosity to learn new things.. which means you have zero actual understanding of anything you're blathering on about.. because you've never done the hard work to learn anything about sports [specifically football] or education or for that matter life in general.
Sure, you clearly have pride in yourself - but what is that pride based on? Your opinions are ridiculously uninformed nonsense. You have a right to an opinion, but not a right to someone else's respect as a result of [or agreement with] that opinion.
We are all dumber for reading anything you post.
.. because you've never done the hard work to learn anything about sports [specifically football] or education
Don't forget Statistics!
-
I honestly expected Baker to have a killer second half of the season...i really did. Then OBJ went out and regardless of what some might say, it's going to cripple him and our offense. Who stretches the field now? Taiwan Taylor? Khadarrel Hodge? It's no secret that our vertical passing game is really pissing our coach off.
If you looked at the Vikings' offense last year, they feasted on some big plays. Interestingly enough, if you extrapolated Baker's numbers throughout the year, he'd actually hwve MORE TD throws than Cousins (30 compared to 27 I think), but it's the lack of explosive passing plays that's really holding us back, and without OBJ, we're going to struggle even more, and also struggle running it.
Where Cousins edged Baker was with completion percentage and especially with interceptions. Cousins literally had something like 7 for the YEAR. That's just crazy. All hope isn't lost though, and Browns fans need to know that Baker is ranked about 3rd in the red zone. That's no small feat and we all need to remember the Kizer season where we could only score if Kizer snuck it in. It was embarrassing and frustrating to say the least. Baker doesn't just score tds in the red zone, he also doesn't (knock on wood) turn it over. We are extremely efficient in the red zone and much of it has to do with Baker, and he's played without key personnel on offense.
If you're looking for a legitimate solution to our passing void caused by OBJ's horrific knee injury, my money is on Hodge. Stefanski is quite keen on the converted QB and likes his size/speed combo. We've had a few deep shots called for him but haven't been able to get it to him. I heard on Browns Daily that Taiwan Taylor has been making consistent plays during practice and that we were going to see a lot of him against Raiders (only played 10 snaps, no targets), but the weather drastically altered the way we had to play.
The biggest problem for Baker Mayfield is our defense. It's so bad, and it's simply too much pressure for an offense. We HAVE to figure out how to get stops and stop relying on turnovers. Harrison also needs to make more plays when they're available. He's dropped two of three pick-6's and those are plays we desperately need. How about Baker Mayfield getting a special teams TD? A defensive TD? Harrison makes that play against the Raiders and we probably win. Gotta have them for the team, and we gotta help out our QB. I'm not even going to get into the damn drops. I'm STILL pissed at Njoku...Jesus that guy. Make the unbelievable catch, drop the routine, all important 3rd down.
Give Baker a chance, but most of all, give him an effing defense.
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.. because you've never done the hard work to learn anything about sports [specifically football] or education
Don't forget Statistics!
Don't forget Statistics!
My new theory on all of Icecube's posts/persona is actually.. conspiracism.
Absolutely nothing needs to be explained - and therefore no need for truth. There are no actual dots - or, as we call them, "facts" - that need to be connected to form a pattern. Instead, we have a new form of the language: bare assertion. Instead of trying to explain something that happened in the world, Icecube's volume of posts themselves are all about creating a narrative for which keeping it afloat becomes the sole reason for any/all of his posts. It's not just nonsense, it's self-referential nonsense. The remarkable [to a sane person, anyway] thing is that there is not even an attempt to present evidence, he claims it's true because it's just, like, my opinion, man - over and over again. It’s ultimately a feel-good narrative: his posts are all about validating his own [random] preexisting beliefs through constantly repeating claims that reinforce what he already believes.
This explains why everyone trying to "respond" to this blather achieves as much as nailing Jello to a wall.
-
Don't forget Statistics!
My new theory on all of Icecube's posts/persona is actually.. conspiracism.
Absolutely nothing needs to be explained - and therefore no need for truth. There are no actual dots - or, as we call them, "facts" - that need to be connected to form a pattern. Instead, we have a new form of the language: bare assertion. Instead of trying to explain something that happened in the world, Icecube's volume of posts themselves are all about creating a narrative for which keeping it afloat becomes the sole reason for any/all of his posts. It's not just nonsense, it's self-referential nonsense. The remarkable [to a sane person, anyway] thing is that there is not even an attempt to present evidence, he claims it's true because it's just, like, my opinion, man - over and over again. It’s ultimately a feel-good narrative: his posts are all about validating his own [random] preexisting beliefs through constantly repeating claims that reinforce what he already believes.
This explains why everyone trying to "respond" to this blather achieves as much as nailing Jello to a wall.
My new theory on all of Icecube's posts/persona is actually.. conspiracism.
Absolutely nothing needs to be explained - and therefore no need for truth. There are no actual dots - or, as we call them, "facts" - that need to be connected to form a pattern. Instead, we have a new form of the language: bare assertion. Instead of trying to explain something that happened in the world, Icecube's volume of posts themselves are all about creating a narrative for which keeping it afloat becomes the sole reason for any/all of his posts. It's not just nonsense, it's self-referential nonsense. The remarkable [to a sane person, anyway] thing is that there is not even an attempt to present evidence, he claims it's true because it's just, like, my opinion, man - over and over again. It’s ultimately a feel-good narrative: his posts are all about validating his own [random] preexisting beliefs through constantly repeating claims that reinforce what he already believes.
This explains why everyone trying to "respond" to this blather achieves as much as nailing Jello to a wall.
Boy, I wonder why that pattern of behavior sounds so familiar? Who am I thinking that employs similar thought processes? You know, it is just on the top of my tongue.
-
I don't have the time or desire to "prove things"
And that's why your opinions are horse shit.
You lack the curiosity to learn new things.. which means you have zero actual understanding of anything you're blathering on about.. because you've never done the hard work to learn anything about sports [specifically football] or education or for that matter life in general.
Sure, you clearly have pride in yourself - but what is that pride based on? Your opinions are ridiculously uninformed nonsense. You have a right to an opinion, but not a right to someone else's respect as a result of [or agreement with] that opinion.
We are all dumber for reading anything you post.
And that's why your opinions are horse shit.
You lack the curiosity to learn new things.. which means you have zero actual understanding of anything you're blathering on about.. because you've never done the hard work to learn anything about sports [specifically football] or education or for that matter life in general.
Sure, you clearly have pride in yourself - but what is that pride based on? Your opinions are ridiculously uninformed nonsense. You have a right to an opinion, but not a right to someone else's respect as a result of [or agreement with] that opinion.
We are all dumber for reading anything you post.
Does someone have a gun to your head, making you read my posts? Then don't. I know your nickname is "Pathetic" around here and I get it, but I don't go around whining about your posts, because that is childish. If I grow weary of your ignorance I can just skip them, no big deal. If my vision makes you insecure, just pass, no reason to cry.
-
My new theory on all of Icecube's posts/persona is actually.. conspiracism.
Absolutely nothing needs to be explained - and therefore no need for truth. There are no actual dots - or, as we call them, "facts" - that need to be connected to form a pattern. Instead, we have a new form of the language: bare assertion. Instead of trying to explain something that happened in the world, Icecube's volume of posts themselves are all about creating a narrative for which keeping it afloat becomes the sole reason for any/all of his posts. It's not just nonsense, it's self-referential nonsense. The remarkable [to a sane person, anyway] thing is that there is not even an attempt to present evidence, he claims it's true because it's just, like, my opinion, man - over and over again. It’s ultimately a feel-good narrative: his posts are all about validating his own [random] preexisting beliefs through constantly repeating claims that reinforce what he already believes.
This explains why everyone trying to "respond" to this blather achieves as much as nailing Jello to a wall.
Boy, I wonder why that pattern of behavior sounds so familiar? Who am I thinking that employs similar thought processes? You know, it is just on the top of my tongue.
Boy, I wonder why that pattern of behavior sounds so familiar? Who am I thinking that employs similar thought processes? You know, it is just on the top of my tongue.
Mmmmmm, I think I know yours: The Akron Pink Pooper.
-
I honestly expected Baker to have a killer second half of the season...i really did. Then OBJ went out and regardless of what some might say, it's going to cripple him and our offense. Who stretches the field now? Taiwan Taylor? Khadarrel Hodge? It's no secret that our vertical passing game is really pissing our coach off.
If you looked at the Vikings' offense last year, they feasted on some big plays. Interestingly enough, if you extrapolated Baker's numbers throughout the year, he'd actually hwve MORE TD throws than Cousins (30 compared to 27 I think), but it's the lack of explosive passing plays that's really holding us back, and without OBJ, we're going to struggle even more, and also struggle running it.
Where Cousins edged Baker was with completion percentage and especially with interceptions. Cousins literally had something like 7 for the YEAR. That's just crazy. All hope isn't lost though, and Browns fans need to know that Baker is ranked about 3rd in the red zone. That's no small feat and we all need to remember the Kizer season where we could only score if Kizer snuck it in. It was embarrassing and frustrating to say the least. Baker doesn't just score tds in the red zone, he also doesn't (knock on wood) turn it over. We are extremely efficient in the red zone and much of it has to do with Baker, and he's played without key personnel on offense.
If you're looking for a legitimate solution to our passing void caused by OBJ's horrific knee injury, my money is on Hodge. Stefanski is quite keen on the converted QB and likes his size/speed combo. We've had a few deep shots called for him but haven't been able to get it to him. I heard on Browns Daily that Taiwan Taylor has been making consistent plays during practice and that we were going to see a lot of him against Raiders (only played 10 snaps, no targets), but the weather drastically altered the way we had to play.
The biggest problem for Baker Mayfield is our defense. It's so bad, and it's simply too much pressure for an offense. We HAVE to figure out how to get stops and stop relying on turnovers. Harrison also needs to make more plays when they're available. He's dropped two of three pick-6's and those are plays we desperately need. How about Baker Mayfield getting a special teams TD? A defensive TD? Harrison makes that play against the Raiders and we probably win. Gotta have them for the team, and we gotta help out our QB. I'm not even going to get into the damn drops. I'm STILL pissed at Njoku...Jesus that guy. Make the unbelievable catch, drop the routine, all important 3rd down.
Give Baker a chance, but most of all, give him an effing defense.
I honestly expected Baker to have a killer second half of the season...i really did. Then OBJ went out and regardless of what some might say, it's going to cripple him and our offense. Who stretches the field now? Taiwan Taylor? Khadarrel Hodge? It's no secret that our vertical passing game is really pissing our coach off.
If you looked at the Vikings' offense last year, they feasted on some big plays. Interestingly enough, if you extrapolated Baker's numbers throughout the year, he'd actually hwve MORE TD throws than Cousins (30 compared to 27 I think), but it's the lack of explosive passing plays that's really holding us back, and without OBJ, we're going to struggle even more, and also struggle running it.
Where Cousins edged Baker was with completion percentage and especially with interceptions. Cousins literally had something like 7 for the YEAR. That's just crazy. All hope isn't lost though, and Browns fans need to know that Baker is ranked about 3rd in the red zone. That's no small feat and we all need to remember the Kizer season where we could only score if Kizer snuck it in. It was embarrassing and frustrating to say the least. Baker doesn't just score tds in the red zone, he also doesn't (knock on wood) turn it over. We are extremely efficient in the red zone and much of it has to do with Baker, and he's played without key personnel on offense.
If you're looking for a legitimate solution to our passing void caused by OBJ's horrific knee injury, my money is on Hodge. Stefanski is quite keen on the converted QB and likes his size/speed combo. We've had a few deep shots called for him but haven't been able to get it to him. I heard on Browns Daily that Taiwan Taylor has been making consistent plays during practice and that we were going to see a lot of him against Raiders (only played 10 snaps, no targets), but the weather drastically altered the way we had to play.
The biggest problem for Baker Mayfield is our defense. It's so bad, and it's simply too much pressure for an offense. We HAVE to figure out how to get stops and stop relying on turnovers. Harrison also needs to make more plays when they're available. He's dropped two of three pick-6's and those are plays we desperately need. How about Baker Mayfield getting a special teams TD? A defensive TD? Harrison makes that play against the Raiders and we probably win. Gotta have them for the team, and we gotta help out our QB. I'm not even going to get into the damn drops. I'm STILL pissed at Njoku...Jesus that guy. Make the unbelievable catch, drop the routine, all important 3rd down.
Give Baker a chance, but most of all, give him an effing defense.
I think you are dead on. It's really hard for a QB with a D that is just a sieve. Of course only scoring 6 points can't use that excuse but the weather was nasty (although the Raiders played in the same stuff and found a way to score more). But there are two problems: 1.) Baker has been below average and 2.) the D is softer than an ice milk cone in August. As far as having no one to stretch the field sans OBJ, there are teams with more wins that also do not have deep ball success, namely, Pitt and Balt. So, having a WR to "take the top off a D" sure helps, it's not a crucial element as is fielding a solid D and having a QB who can read a D and find the open target.
The good news is, come 2021, the Browns can focus on adding players to fix the D, like they fixed the OL this year. I am guessing they will also add a WR with deep speed as well. There will be some good options.
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Terry Bradshaw: “I Don’t Like Baker Mayfield”
By Wendi Oliveros November 7, 2020@WendiOliveros1
Former Steelers quarterback Terry Bradshaw was a recent guest on ‘The Herd’ with Colin Cowherd.
When Cowherd brought up Browns quarterback Baker Mayfield, Bradshaw was quick to let his feelings be known about him.
In a twist of irony, Bradshaw revealed that he never met Mayfield in person so he is judging him only by his on-the-field behavior.
Do Your Job
Bradshaw thinks Mayfield should just do his job.
The extra antics are not necessary; they just draw unnecessary attention.
If it’s any consolation, Bradshaw characterizes Johnny Manziel and Cam Newton the same way.
Lack of Self Awareness
Bradshaw cites a lack of awareness and humility in these players.
It’s hard enough to win in the NFL without engaging in those behaviors.
He talks about how his father taught him to respect people.
Bradshaw explains that players can be competitive as well as being kind and respectful.
It’s His Opinion
Certainly, Terry Bradshaw is entitled to his opinion.
And he doesn’t have to like everyone in the NFL.
But it’s a little unfair of him to judge Baker Mayfield without ever meeting him.
In the same interview, he talked about Aaron Rodgers not having the fighting spirit of Tom Brady when the Packers were losing to the Vikings last week.
Baker’s on-the-field behavior is not disrespectful.
It is his way of getting himself psyched up and game ready.
And to lead his team.
Baker never gives up and is never out of a game.
He puts everything he has into it.
So instead of interpreting his body language as disrespectful, maybe Bradshaw should remember from his playing days that professional athletes approach the mental aspect of the game in different ways.
And just respect Baker’s methods and his competitiveness.
Colin Cowherd
Everyone knows Cowherd can’t stand Baker.
He talks about it regularly and says his dislike of him extends back to his Oklahoma days.
The fact that he enlisted Terry Bradshaw to share in his Baker dislike only means one thing.
If the Browns keep winning, Bradshaw will probably be a more frequent guest on The Herd.
For no other reason than to bash Baker.
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My new theory on all of Icecube's posts/persona is actually.. conspiracism.
Absolutely nothing needs to be explained - and therefore no need for truth. There are no actual dots - or, as we call them, "facts" - that need to be connected to form a pattern. Instead, we have a new form of the language: bare assertion. Instead of trying to explain something that happened in the world, Icecube's volume of posts themselves are all about creating a narrative for which keeping it afloat becomes the sole reason for any/all of his posts. It's not just nonsense, it's self-referential nonsense. The remarkable [to a sane person, anyway] thing is that there is not even an attempt to present evidence, he claims it's true because it's just, like, my opinion, man - over and over again. It’s ultimately a feel-good narrative: his posts are all about validating his own [random] preexisting beliefs through constantly repeating claims that reinforce what he already believes.
This explains why everyone trying to "respond" to this blather achieves as much as nailing Jello to a wall.
Boy, I wonder why that pattern of behavior sounds so familiar? Who am I thinking that employs similar thought processes? You know, it is just on the top of my tongue.
I wonder why that pattern of behavior sounds so familiar
Not shockingly, the only "group" on this forum to parrot his stuff is the exact same people who on the other forum are wildly right wing. Self-selecting for stupidity! The cult of anti-reason isn't just politics any more.
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown
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