This Team Lacks Talent
-
Thomas fell apart last year. Hopefully it was from the collapse, but he wasn't that great all year like you want to believe. I did mention Wright, I don't think he is that talented. I do think he can become a "decent" starter, but that is about it.
You like Plax more than I do obviously. We all want to overrate players so we can win more quickly than we expect, but it rarely works out that way.
The sum of the offense fell apart last year not Thomas. Was last year as good as 2007, maybe not. But being voted to the Pro Bowl for a second consective year in only your 2nd year in the league, it's a pretty darn good year.
You mentioned Wright but avoided my questions to you on him, gave no bar or standard you want him to be, etc. You just seem to want to state he isn't good and can't be no matter what he does. How about a little detail on what you see wrong with his game, who as a 3rd year is better, etc.
I don't think I over rate Plax at all (pre-shooting himself). I am not saying I want CLE to go sign the guy. But Plaxico has been productive WR in the NFL for numerous years. BE has not. There is no comparing the guys.
Masters said:
The sum of the offense fell apart last year not Thomas. Was last year as good as 2007, maybe not. But being voted to the Pro Bowl for a second consective year in only your 2nd year in the league, it's a pretty darn good year.You mentioned Wright but avoided my questions to you on him, gave no bar or standard you want him to be, etc. You just seem to want to state he isn't good and can't be no matter what he does. How about a little detail on what you see wrong with his game, who as a 3rd year is better, etc.
I don't think I over rate Plax at all (pre-shooting himself). I am not saying I want CLE to go sign the guy. But Plaxico has been productive WR in the NFL for numerous years. BE has not. There is no comparing the guys.
Your stubborn refusal to accept reality is why I started drinking.........
Thomas's play DID fall apart. He was bad the last half of the year and that cannot be doubted. You can live in denial all you want, but facts are facts. I already mentioned my beliefs on Wright's ceiling.
10 35 454 13.0 45.4 33T 4 6 0 25 0
2007 New York Giants 16 70 1,025 14.6 64.1 60T 12 15 5 49 0
2006 New York Giants 15 63 988 15.7 65.9 55T 10 17 6 44 2
2005 New York Giants 16 76 1,214 16.0 75.9 78T 7 20 5 49 1
2004 Pittsburgh Steelers 11 35 698 19.9 63.5 48 5 13 4 31 1
2003 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 60 860 14.3 53.8 47 4 11 1 40 1
2002 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 78 1,325 17.0 82.8 62T 7 21 5 64 2
2001 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 66 1,008 15.3 63.0 43 6 18 2 48 1
2000 Pittsburgh Steelers 12 22 273
Here is Plax's career numbers. Can't you see Edwards following the mold? Plax's career hasn't been a total waste, but lets not overdo him. Edwards will probably fetch on the trade market what Plax fetched. Which the Giants offered.
So basically I am saying: We "probably" have a franchise LT, but probably not with OLB,CB or WR. QB most likely not either.
-
Masters said:
The sum of the offense fell apart last year not Thomas. Was last year as good as 2007, maybe not. But being voted to the Pro Bowl for a second consective year in only your 2nd year in the league, it's a pretty darn good year.You mentioned Wright but avoided my questions to you on him, gave no bar or standard you want him to be, etc. You just seem to want to state he isn't good and can't be no matter what he does. How about a little detail on what you see wrong with his game, who as a 3rd year is better, etc.
I don't think I over rate Plax at all (pre-shooting himself). I am not saying I want CLE to go sign the guy. But Plaxico has been productive WR in the NFL for numerous years. BE has not. There is no comparing the guys.
Your stubborn refusal to accept reality is why I started drinking.........
Thomas's play DID fall apart. He was bad the last half of the year and that cannot be doubted. You can live in denial all you want, but facts are facts. I already mentioned my beliefs on Wright's ceiling.
10 35 454 13.0 45.4 33T 4 6 0 25 0
2007 New York Giants 16 70 1,025 14.6 64.1 60T 12 15 5 49 0
2006 New York Giants 15 63 988 15.7 65.9 55T 10 17 6 44 2
2005 New York Giants 16 76 1,214 16.0 75.9 78T 7 20 5 49 1
2004 Pittsburgh Steelers 11 35 698 19.9 63.5 48 5 13 4 31 1
2003 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 60 860 14.3 53.8 47 4 11 1 40 1
2002 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 78 1,325 17.0 82.8 62T 7 21 5 64 2
2001 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 66 1,008 15.3 63.0 43 6 18 2 48 1
2000 Pittsburgh Steelers 12 22 273
Here is Plax's career numbers. Can't you see Edwards following the mold? Plax's career hasn't been a total waste, but lets not overdo him. Edwards will probably fetch on the trade market what Plax fetched. Which the Giants offered.
So basically I am saying: We "probably" have a franchise LT, but probably not with OLB,CB or WR. QB most likely not either.
Your stubborn refusal to accept reality is why I started drinking.........
Thomas's play DID fall apart. He was bad the last half of the year and that cannot be doubted. You can live in denial all you want, but facts are facts. I already mentioned my beliefs on Wright's ceiling.
10 35 454 13.0 45.4 33T 4 6 0 25 0
2007 New York Giants 16 70 1,025 14.6 64.1 60T 12 15 5 49 0
2006 New York Giants 15 63 988 15.7 65.9 55T 10 17 6 44 2
2005 New York Giants 16 76 1,214 16.0 75.9 78T 7 20 5 49 1
2004 Pittsburgh Steelers 11 35 698 19.9 63.5 48 5 13 4 31 1
2003 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 60 860 14.3 53.8 47 4 11 1 40 1
2002 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 78 1,325 17.0 82.8 62T 7 21 5 64 2
2001 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 66 1,008 15.3 63.0 43 6 18 2 48 1
2000 Pittsburgh Steelers 12 22 273
Here is Plax's career numbers. Can't you see Edwards following the mold? Plax's career hasn't been a total waste, but lets not overdo him. Edwards will probably fetch on the trade market what Plax fetched. Which the Giants offered.
So basically I am saying: We "probably" have a franchise LT, but probably not with OLB,CB or WR. QB most likely not either.
You will simply say they are good, not good, etc. with no factual reasons given is why I drink.
Show me where Thomas's play fell off. The whole offense collapsed the back end of last season and featured 2 guys later playing QB that have no business playing it in the NFL. Throw in Steinbach constantly having to help Fraley, and sure more sacks were given up. But Thomas's work at his specific position and what he is supposed to do was solid at his job. That is all I am saying. He was the 2nd best OT in the AFC last year. That might not be good enough for you, but I sure ain't going to knock it.
Here is what you have managed to say about Wright:
"Wright IMO is a stepdown than you want," to which I asked "Wright is a step down from who? Give me a 3rd year CB who is playing better and developing better? The kid just needs to continue to produce. But there are many teams around the NFL that would love to have that kid at one of their starting CB spots." None of which you have even touched on.
""talent of a number 1 corner. I don't see it. Even if he does produce, he ain't a stud IMO"
Yeah, I can see where you really touched on his ceiling
I am well aware of Plax's stats. Notice the number of years and how long Edwards has been playing. Then look at where they each played, and the situations there. Sure, if I want to stretch I can see Edwards going a route of Plax. Of course I could stretch and say Chris Carter, or any other receiver. The fact remains over half the NFL teams would take either of those guys as their number 1. None of which means I want either guy long term for my team.
-
I really don't get how you can slam the panic button on one quarter of starters. The right side of line bothers me a little with hadnot being out b/c mangini really likes him and I see him starting. I didn't really see any of Mack so I can't judge on him and he is a rookie give it time. Braylon dropping balls is a little worrisome but then again he does that. David Bowens didn't even make the trip and SHAUN ROGERS DIDN'T PLAY. If we are looking like this into game 1 of the regular season then you can start questioning the preparedness of the team and whatever else you want. Until then please relax.
-
@shepwrite said:
No NFL team lacks talent. They draft in inverse order of success and take the best college players. It wouldn't make any sense to say one team or another lacks talent. Ask any player -- every team has scads of gifted athletes.The difference maker seems to be organizational, mostly continuity in ownership, head coach, offensive and defensive systems, and quarterback.
The cornerstone positions in football (tweaked for a 3-4) are left tackle, quarterback, #1 WR, pass rusher, nose tackle, and cover corner. The Browns have Thomas, Quinn, Edwards, Wimbley, Rogers, and Wright at those positions. Every single one but Wright was a first round pick, and right was, what? 33rd overall?
Does anybody think these guys lack talent? I certainly don't. I think the overall franchise needs to find, establish, and maintain identity and continuity from the top down. Before that happens, we'll be rebuilding every other year.
That is a Gomer statement.
Ok, sure, teams have talent.......but it is relative to the level of talent of the other teams..
Guys who get cut have talent.
Bottom line, we lack the talent to win.
We don't have the talent that other teams have.....does that make you feel better?
-
@holmes10_ward_86 said:
Relax Sony according to that Dawgpound03 guy on here he said that the Browns are better at nearly every position then the Steelers in terms of wideout,running back,and o-line. It's okay though at least you have the 9 NFL Championships back in the 50's and 60's to enjoy and winning the Ed Thorp Trophy...That's the problem with a lot of the Browns fans on this board when they bring up the 50's and 60's championships they won because the bottom is the NFL today just like in life is a what have you done for me lately business, and what you have done for me lately life. And the Browns answer to both of questions is a big xxxxing NOTHING!!!Browns fans shouldn't bring up those championships really. They're so long ago.
Steelers fans shouldn't be bringing up their past bought/steroid ones either. They're too long ago.
-
I don't want to rain on anyones parade, but folks lets examine what this team is all about this season.....We are REBUILDING
This team does not have much talent, everyone is upset about last night but what you saw is much of what you will get this season
This team is at least 2 drafts away from contending and Mangini getting his type of players
This team has with the exception of Edwards and Cribbs zero offensive playmakers, and please people lets get off the Jerome Harrison as a every down back the guy is not and never will be a every down NFL running back
On Defense until we get some guys who can rush the passer and create turnovers we won't contend, When are the Browns going to admit they made a mistake with Wimbley and move on? The guy is a BUST and a new coaching staff is not going to change that
This defense has maybe 3 guys that could start for most NFL teams the remaining players on defense are role players or backups
The offensive line is not a good as most people on this board think it is, we have Thomas and a developing Mack and thats it folks, Steinbach, Womack, Tucker, St.Clair these guys have all played there best football, look over the next 2 drafts for a RG, LG and RT
On a final note neither QB is a Franchise QB and I believe Mangini will regret the day he traded a Franchise QB in Sanchez to the Jets, Brady Quinn is not the guy and many people will find out this season why he lasted as long as he did in the draft, the Browns are still going to have to draft a franchise quarterback because that guy is not on this roster
So lets enjoy the season and watch the young guys we drafted develop over the season and hope in the next 2 years we get it right this time
Not attempting to be Doom and Gloom just how I see this team........If we win 4 games consider it a good season
Wow. Did you read my mind or something? I agree with EVERY point with one massive exception. I think Braylon Edwards is an anchor weighing this team down. He was thrown to over 13o times last year and only made 55 catches. How many drives is that that he killed single handed. I think the team is much better without him since he's an enticing target but if you throw to him in the clutch it leads to a drop.
I don't want to rain on anyones parade, but folks lets examine what this team is all about this season.....We are REBUILDING
This team does not have much talent, everyone is upset about last night but what you saw is much of what you will get this season
This team is at least 2 drafts away from contending and Mangini getting his type of players
This team has with the exception of Edwards and Cribbs zero offensive playmakers, and please people lets get off the Jerome Harrison as a every down back the guy is not and never will be a every down NFL running back
On Defense until we get some guys who can rush the passer and create turnovers we won't contend, When are the Browns going to admit they made a mistake with Wimbley and move on? The guy is a BUST and a new coaching staff is not going to change that
This defense has maybe 3 guys that could start for most NFL teams the remaining players on defense are role players or backups
The offensive line is not a good as most people on this board think it is, we have Thomas and a developing Mack and thats it folks, Steinbach, Womack, Tucker, St.Clair these guys have all played there best football, look over the next 2 drafts for a RG, LG and RT
On a final note neither QB is a Franchise QB and I believe Mangini will regret the day he traded a Franchise QB in Sanchez to the Jets, Brady Quinn is not the guy and many people will find out this season why he lasted as long as he did in the draft, the Browns are still going to have to draft a franchise quarterback because that guy is not on this roster
So lets enjoy the season and watch the young guys we drafted develop over the season and hope in the next 2 years we get it right this time
Not attempting to be Doom and Gloom just how I see this team........If we win 4 games consider it a good season
-
Here is an interesting Eric weight atst. In 200n he gave up 22 touch downs which is the 4th most
In the NFL for corner backs starting more than 12 games outof the 47 corners who started more than 12 games. He also leads all corners in the NFL who got beat for touch downs longer than 30 yards with 9.
-
Continue drinking the Kool Aid.....A SUCKER IS BORN EVERY DAY
Thanks for proving me correct, old man.
Can one not be realistic and a fan at the same time? We (ALL OF US) realize we aren't the Pats, Colts or Eagles, talent-wise, but we're still fans nevertheless. In your eyes, that makes us saps. In ours, it makes us excited for the brand new season to start.
Pray for us, Sony. We beg your forgiveness...
mz. said:
Thanks for proving me correct, old man.Can one not be realistic and a fan at the same time? We (ALL OF US) realize we aren't the Pats, Colts or Eagles, talent-wise, but we're still fans nevertheless. In your eyes, that makes us saps. In ours, it makes us excited for the brand new season to start.
Pray for us, Sony. We beg your forgiveness...
you forgot that you're also not the Reigning World Chapion Pittsburgh Steelers either!something i don't understand about the browns organization is how you guys have had a top 10 draft pick every year (or just about) and still complain about talent? it's coaching and system pure and simple. hopefully with Mangini that will change............but it's not your talent that is to blame.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login