Quarterback Merry Go Round
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I think some of you are underestimating Dak’s value to the Cowboys. While we had a close view of that horrendous Defense and while it is noted and correct that they are far from a team that is one player away. The one player that is being casually dismissed is the biggest part of the team in my opinion. While I can respect going out and maybe drafting a rookie and the team (maybe) being better off down the road- is that a play out of Jerry’s impatient I want to win now book? Is there a Bledsoe or Romo in the house to ease that transition?
I saw a team that moved the ball well with Dak and hung around some shootouts with playoffs teams. Yes, the Browns!!! They quickly moved to team getting blown out, facing 8 man fronts and not being able to score or move the ball as Effectively.
You could argue whether Dak is worth a long term deal for big money, but you need to consider the alternatives whether it is Jerry sitting through a rookie with no viable bridge QB like a Romo or spending draft capital and money to pluck a guy away like Stafford or Wentz which could at best be a lateral move and the Boys lose draft capital too unless you believe Dak is the 17th best QB.
I think some of you are underestimating Dak’s value to the Cowboys. While we had a close view of that horrendous Defense and while it is noted and correct that they are far from a team that is one player away. The one player that is being casually dismissed is the biggest part of the team in my opinion. While I can respect going out and maybe drafting a rookie and the team (maybe) being better off down the road- is that a play out of Jerry’s impatient I want to win now book? Is there a Bledsoe or Romo in the house to ease that transition?
Dalton? And, OK, the fact that you point out that Jones is delusional about how good his team is makes sense. And that is why he will probably tag, and maybe sign Dak. His delusions of grandeur will make him do stupid things that will keep the Cowboys a shit team. And Hooray for that.!
I saw a team that moved the ball well with Dak and hung around some shootouts with playoffs teams. Yes, the Browns!!! They quickly moved to team getting blown out, facing 8 man fronts and not being able to score or move the ball as Effectively.
Well....the Browns defense is barely one step above the Cowboys. At least we know we have a lot of work to do there.
You could argue whether Dak is worth a long term deal for big money, but you need to consider the alternatives whether it is Jerry sitting through a rookie with no viable bridge QB like a Romo or spending draft capital and money to pluck a guy away like Stafford or Wentz which could at best be a lateral move and the Boys lose draft capital too unless you believe Dak is the 17th best QB.
Again and again and again...if they did go the rookie route, Dalton is a perfectly viable "bridge QB". Christ, he took the Bengals to the playoffs like 5 times. And in my proposed scenario, the only draft capital they use on a QB is that first round pick, nothing else. And that would leave them to use the other like 30 million they would not spend on Dak on some OL and Defense. Their receivers and RB situation are fine. They need to block and tackle better.
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I was including the guys that have been on the trade block. We have seen Goff, Stafford, Wentz traded so far. Watson wants out. Cam Newton is out there. Trubisky. There is discussion about several others as well as potential trades/cuts: Darnold, Bridgewater. Tua. Maybe a few others. Plus, you have 4-5 possible first round picks who have to be included in the mix. So, yea...12-15 potential QBs to fill spots. That's a comparative "glut".
None of them are even close to the same level including the potential 1st Rd pick this year. If you were a team like the Jag's or jets. I'd take a hard look at Dak and draft top level playmakers to surround him. I'm really not sold on the incoming QB class.
Not exactly. If Dallas exercises the tag....they control his destiny. Yes but He gets paid 37 mil. Guaranteed for the year.
If they don't and let him go to free agency...then they control that as well.
I don't see how the cowboys have any control if he takes a better offer.?
He would control his own destiny then...ONLY to the point that someone else may also have an interest in him. He can't just go where he wants, because most of the league would have no interest in him as a FA. He can't go to Seattle if he wants. Or the Rams or Chargers or Cardinals, nor the Packers, Colts, Browns, Bengals, Titans....or many other teams. He will have the choice perhaps of just a very few really: those who want him and can afford him. That eliminates probably 3/4ths of the league....which would mean that maybe he would have at most 8 teams interested. Including maybe Dallas on a reduced deal.
And we as Browns fans know the value in a Franchise QB and so does every other franchise. It's not like they are everywhere. And If there is interest from 8 other teams the cowboys could loose him if they don't play ball.
I was including the guys that have been on the trade block. We have seen Goff, Stafford, Wentz traded so far. Watson wants out. Cam Newton is out there. Trubisky. There is discussion about several others as well as potential trades/cuts: Darnold, Bridgewater. Tua. Maybe a few others. Plus, you have 4-5 possible first round picks who have to be included in the mix. So, yea...12-15 potential QBs to fill spots. That's a comparative "glut".
None of them are even close to the same level including the potential 1st Rd pick this year. If you were a team like the Jag's or jets. I'd take a hard look at Dak and draft top level playmakers to surround him. I'm really not sold on the incoming QB class.
Ignoring the guys that were traded: Cam has been a better QB in the past certainly. Could he be again? And IMO, both Darnold and Trubisky are equal or better talents. Yes, that's right. They just have not had a chance to show it in that they have had nowhere near the same kind of talented weapons that Dak has had.
Not exactly. If Dallas exercises the tag....they control his destiny. Yes but He gets paid 37 mil. Guaranteed for the year. Sure...but they still control that situation.
If they don't and let him go to free agency...then they control that as well.
I don't see how the cowboys have any control if he takes a better offer.? They control the fact that they can let him go...and by doing so, they control themselves and the fact that Dak will likely get nowhere near the money he expects elsewhere.
He would control his own destiny then...ONLY to the point that someone else may also have an interest in him. He can't just go where he wants, because most of the league would have no interest in him as a FA. He can't go to Seattle if he wants. Or the Rams or Chargers or Cardinals, nor the Packers, Colts, Browns, Bengals, Titans....or many other teams. He will have the choice perhaps of just a very few really: those who want him and can afford him. That eliminates probably 3/4ths of the league....which would mean that maybe he would have at most 8 teams interested. Including maybe Dallas on a reduced deal.
And we as Browns fans know the value in a Franchise QB and so does every other franchise. It's not like they are everywhere. And If there is interest from 8 other teams the cowboys could loose him if they don't play ball.
The word is Lose, not loose. And yes...they lose him. That is the whole point, they lose a guy that they would have to pay 37 million dollars to who they DON"T want to pay that kind of money to. (or...have no business paying that kind of money to) . Sayonara sucker. Now...if he would agree to sign for maybe 25 million....they could keep him. Even if any of you think Dak is in the Top 10-15 QBs in the league...he sure as hell is not in the top 3 QBs in the league....and that is what he would be paid like if they tagged him and paid him the 37 million.
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You have to unless you want him to hit free agency. Running out of time at this point.
Under my scenario, YES, I want him to hit free agency.
Honestly: Do any of you think that if he "hits" free agency and is on the open market that he is really going to get offers approaching 37 million dollars? Given the potential glut of QBs available....given the contracted salary cap, who is going to come close to offering him that? What team out there would be able.....(cap wise) and willing to give him that kind of money? I can think of only 4 teams that could have some interest: Washington, New England, Denver, Carolina....... and a couple of those would have to do some major cap maneuvering....and still I could see them only offering something maybe 10 million less than what he wants.
Under my scenario, YES, I want him to hit free agency.
Honestly: Do any of you think that if he "hits" free agency and is on the open market that he is really going to get offers approaching 37 million dollars? Given the potential glut of QBs available....given the contracted salary cap, who is going to come close to offering him that? What team out there would be able.....(cap wise) and willing to give him that kind of money? I can think of only 4 teams that could have some interest: Washington, New England, Denver, Carolina....... and a couple of those would have to do some major cap maneuvering....and still I could see them only offering something maybe 10 million less than what he wants.
Absolutely. I could see him getting 35+ mill a year in today’s nfl. Getting that much and not even being a top 5 QB. I could see it.
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Under my scenario, YES, I want him to hit free agency.
Honestly: Do any of you think that if he "hits" free agency and is on the open market that he is really going to get offers approaching 37 million dollars? Given the potential glut of QBs available....given the contracted salary cap, who is going to come close to offering him that? What team out there would be able.....(cap wise) and willing to give him that kind of money? I can think of only 4 teams that could have some interest: Washington, New England, Denver, Carolina....... and a couple of those would have to do some major cap maneuvering....and still I could see them only offering something maybe 10 million less than what he wants.
Absolutely. I could see him getting 35+ mill a year in today’s nfl. Getting that much and not even being a top 5 QB. I could see it.
Absolutely. I could see him getting 35+ mill a year in today’s nfl. Getting that much and not even being a top 5 QB. I could see it.
Well then there are some fucking idjit owners/GMs in this league. But, hey, maybe the Girls will tag him, pay him all that money....and suck swamp water for the next 10 years.
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I think some of you are underestimating Dak’s value to the Cowboys. While we had a close view of that horrendous Defense and while it is noted and correct that they are far from a team that is one player away. The one player that is being casually dismissed is the biggest part of the team in my opinion. While I can respect going out and maybe drafting a rookie and the team (maybe) being better off down the road- is that a play out of Jerry’s impatient I want to win now book? Is there a Bledsoe or Romo in the house to ease that transition?
Dalton? And, OK, the fact that you point out that Jones is delusional about how good his team is makes sense. And that is why he will probably tag, and maybe sign Dak. His delusions of grandeur will make him do stupid things that will keep the Cowboys a shit team. And Hooray for that.!
I saw a team that moved the ball well with Dak and hung around some shootouts with playoffs teams. Yes, the Browns!!! They quickly moved to team getting blown out, facing 8 man fronts and not being able to score or move the ball as Effectively.
Well....the Browns defense is barely one step above the Cowboys. At least we know we have a lot of work to do there.
You could argue whether Dak is worth a long term deal for big money, but you need to consider the alternatives whether it is Jerry sitting through a rookie with no viable bridge QB like a Romo or spending draft capital and money to pluck a guy away like Stafford or Wentz which could at best be a lateral move and the Boys lose draft capital too unless you believe Dak is the 17th best QB.
Again and again and again...if they did go the rookie route, Dalton is a perfectly viable "bridge QB". Christ, he took the Bengals to the playoffs like 5 times. And in my proposed scenario, the only draft capital they use on a QB is that first round pick, nothing else. And that would leave them to use the other like 30 million they would not spend on Dak on some OL and Defense. Their receivers and RB situation are fine. They need to block and tackle better.
Dalton couldn’t challenge any defense downfield thus the 8 man front thus no Zeke.
You treat Andy Dalton like it’s 2017 and he’s shredding the Browns defense.Here’s the Dalton Bridge
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Dalton couldn’t challenge any defense downfield thus the 8 man front thus no Zeke.
You treat Andy Dalton like it’s 2017 and he’s shredding the Browns defense.Here’s the Dalton Bridge
Dalton couldn’t challenge any defense downfield thus the 8 man front thus no Zeke.
Here’s the Dalton Bridge
He basically did just as well as Prescott. Dalton was 2-3 as a starter. Dak was 4-5. No appreciable difference as far as winning, and like I said...a bridge is a bridge. You cross it to get somewhere else...and that somewhere else is to you Top 10 drafted rookie. And combined you would pay maybe 7 million at your QB position...not 37 million plus.
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Patriots no holds barred on finding a new QB:
https://sports.yahoo.com/report-patriots-exploring-every-potential-171103500.html
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Dalton couldn’t challenge any defense downfield thus the 8 man front thus no Zeke.
Here’s the Dalton Bridge
He basically did just as well as Prescott. Dalton was 2-3 as a starter. Dak was 4-5. No appreciable difference as far as winning, and like I said...a bridge is a bridge. You cross it to get somewhere else...and that somewhere else is to you Top 10 drafted rookie. And combined you would pay maybe 7 million at your QB position...not 37 million plus.
He basically did just as well as Prescott. Dalton was 2-3 as a starter. Dak was 4-5. No appreciable difference as far as winning, and like I said...a bridge is a bridge. You cross it to get somewhere else...and that somewhere else is to you Top 10 drafted rookie. And combined you would pay maybe 7 million at your QB position...not 37 million plus.
your records are off and I’d argue the Cowboys wouldn’t be 6-10 with Dak playing 16 games.
Dak had (3)450 plus yard games out of the 5 he played and The 5th game he didn’t play the whole game.
Dalton had (1) 300 plus yard game out of 10 starts and threw at least one INT in 8 out of 10 starts. A Bridge to 6-10 with a second tier 2021 draft QB (good talents but projects) waiting in the wings that will inevitably be asked to play right away and throw a team on their back.
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He basically did just as well as Prescott. Dalton was 2-3 as a starter. Dak was 4-5. No appreciable difference as far as winning, and like I said...a bridge is a bridge. You cross it to get somewhere else...and that somewhere else is to you Top 10 drafted rookie. And combined you would pay maybe 7 million at your QB position...not 37 million plus.
your records are off and I’d argue the Cowboys wouldn’t be 6-10 with Dak playing 16 games.
Dak had (3)450 plus yard games out of the 5 he played and The 5th game he didn’t play the whole game.
Dalton had (1) 300 plus yard game out of 10 starts and threw at least one INT in 8 out of 10 starts. A Bridge to 6-10 with a second tier 2021 draft QB (good talents but projects) waiting in the wings that will inevitably be asked to play right away and throw a team on their back.
your records are off and I’d argue the Cowboys wouldn’t be 6-10 with Dak playing 16 games.
They were 4-5 with him....so that extrapolates to maybe they could have gotten to 7-9. But hey...sure, Dak is not that team's problem personnel wise. Like I said, he is a good QB. 10-15 range. They have a shit defense and their OL either got old or injured.
Dak had (3)450 plus yard games out of the 5 he played and The 5th game he didn’t play the whole game. .and that just proves that they threw the ball on every down.
Dalton had (1) 300 plus yard game out of 10 starts and threw at least one INT in 8 out of 10 starts. A Bridge to 6-10 with a second tier 2021 draft QB (good talents but projects) waiting in the wings that will inevitably be asked to play right away and throw a team on their back.
Well...think about it...if you defend Dak because the rest of the team was shite...then the same applies to Dalton. And, I am not saying that Dalton is as good as Dak...now. I am only saying that I don't think their talents are tremendously different. And the fact is that historically Dalton has a better record....both in terms of winning and in terms of statistics as Dak. And what do you mean? Do you think a guy drafted 10th constitutes a "second tier" QB? Both Mahomes and Watson were drafted in the 10-12 range. And Dak was a 4th round pick. So what does that make him? A 9th tier QB?
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Jones needs to go away. He won 3 titles because of Jimmy Johnson. They haven’t even made the conference title game since.
Let the football people do the football stuff. And make your BILLIONS being a business manBy ripping off and gouging the cold, sick, dying, people of Texas. Which is exactly what he just did.
By ripping off and gouging the cold, sick, dying, people of Texas. Which is exactly what he just did.
Isn't that against the law, during a natural disaster?
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your records are off and I’d argue the Cowboys wouldn’t be 6-10 with Dak playing 16 games.
They were 4-5 with him....so that extrapolates to maybe they could have gotten to 7-9. But hey...sure, Dak is not that team's problem personnel wise. Like I said, he is a good QB. 10-15 range. They have a shit defense and their OL either got old or injured.
Dak had (3)450 plus yard games out of the 5 he played and The 5th game he didn’t play the whole game. .and that just proves that they threw the ball on every down.
Dalton had (1) 300 plus yard game out of 10 starts and threw at least one INT in 8 out of 10 starts. A Bridge to 6-10 with a second tier 2021 draft QB (good talents but projects) waiting in the wings that will inevitably be asked to play right away and throw a team on their back.
Well...think about it...if you defend Dak because the rest of the team was shite...then the same applies to Dalton. And, I am not saying that Dalton is as good as Dak...now. I am only saying that I don't think their talents are tremendously different. And the fact is that historically Dalton has a better record....both in terms of winning and in terms of statistics as Dak. And what do you mean? Do you think a guy drafted 10th constitutes a "second tier" QB? Both Mahomes and Watson were drafted in the 10-12 range. And Dak was a 4th round pick. So what does that make him? A 9th tier QB?
Dak is moving up your list I see 15-20 now 10-15...your opinion looks a little better now.
Regarding tiers...I like Justin Fields. But Fields and Trey Lance they will need some time. They are projects. That’s probably what’s left at their spot. But Maybe we give credit to the Cowboys scouting department Dak was selected late and was ROY.
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By ripping off and gouging the cold, sick, dying, people of Texas. Which is exactly what he just did.
Isn't that against the law, during a natural disaster?
Isn't that against the law, during a natural disaster?
Uhh....Not in Texas apparently. A single oil companies paid like a million dollars in campaign contributions to each of like Abbott, the Gov. Cruz, Rick Perry, former Gov. and others. (that was not Jerry Jones company...he may also have paid them huge bribes). Basically to pass laws to have -0- regulations on the energy industry in that state. By law they are allowed to A. make those bribes B. Invest NO money into any weatherization or safety equipment and C. charge whatever they want to the point of outrageous gouging with their prices in times of crisis. They were apparently giving some people a $17,000.00 monthly bill for their natural gas.
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Dak is moving up your list I see 15-20 now 10-15...your opinion looks a little better now.
Regarding tiers...I like Justin Fields. But Fields and Trey Lance they will need some time. They are projects. That’s probably what’s left at their spot. But Maybe we give credit to the Cowboys scouting department Dak was selected late and was ROY.
Dak is moving up your list I see 15-20 now 10-15...your opinion looks a little better now.
Because Brees, Rivers retired. I would have to scrutinize the QB situation for all 32 teams.....in fact, I think I did that with "QB tiers thread" that I did. Will have to recheck what I did their.
Regarding tiers...I like Justin Fields. But Fields and Trey Lance they will need some time. They are projects. That’s probably what’s left at their spot. But Maybe we give credit to the Cowboys scouting department Dak was selected late and was ROY.
Oh, yes, he was a great 4th round pick. If I recall think that I thought he was projected to go in round 2.
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OK, here are the current starting QBs that I think I would rate ahead of Dak:
Darnold
Ben R. at least the BR from the first part of last year.....put question mark beside him
Allen
Ryan
Brady
Jackson
Tannehill
Burrow
Mayfield
Goff
Rodgers
Cousins....maybe
Mahomes
Watson
Carr....maybe
Herbert
Stafford
Garropolo...maybe
Wilson
That is 15 for certain that I believe are better. 3-4 others that he is in the same boat as he perhaps.
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Cowboys salary is.. over the 2021 cap right now. They do have some good young players to "build around" but.. they need several more to become a .500 team let alone a contender.
By way of comparison: Taki, Goodson, Mitch, Higgins, Porter Gustin, and someone named Teller have all been good low-cost performers on Cleveland this past season..
The case against spending extra on Dak is that they don't have any position group strength to spend 13% of their cap on one player. The only way that's justifiable is if that one player is actually good enough to put the team on his back and make up for the stinking. Finding players on the positive value side of the equation [so you're "under"paying for the results you're getting] is every team's goal for every roster spot.. and not everyone succeeds. TB had several good position groups but no TB12 for years.
The issue is that the verysmall gap between Dak and Dalton's performance is nowhere near enough to make up for the reality that the roster has ... no discernable talent outside of OL, Elliot, and WR. All levels of the defense are overpaid and not performing; no backups on either side other than Dalton are capable of "stepping up." And the 9M in dead money this season isn't helping.
I wouldn't take Demarcus Lawrence unless it was some sort of vet reclamation contract.. he's worth less than 1/3 of his 17M salary. Their LB's had paycheck motivation - even their so-called best players actually rated barely above mack wilson. DB's? Yikes.. This roster is not good enough to justify paying for more than a vet caretaker QB.. they really need to embrace a contract dump & draft pick rebuild.
Reality: Cowboys mortgaged the future to attempt to stay relevant the last few seasons - and that future is now. I'd take the pain in 2021 -- there is no quick fix. If this was to actually happen, side benefit for JJ: He could finally sell something different from the last 20 years.. competent leadership investing in the long-term outlook.
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Jerry Jones will be 79 in October. He is about the second worse pathological narcissist I have ever been aware of. (guess who is 1st). He has NO interest in "long term outlook" now that he is facing his mortality (aren't we all?). He wants to win now, and he may think having Dak will do that for him.
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OK, here are the current starting QBs that I think I would rate ahead of Dak:
Darnold
Ben R. at least the BR from the first part of last year.....put question mark beside him
Allen
Ryan
Brady
Jackson
Tannehill
Burrow
Mayfield
Goff
Rodgers
Cousins....maybe
Mahomes
Watson
Carr....maybe
Herbert
Stafford
Garropolo...maybe
Wilson
That is 15 for certain that I believe are better. 3-4 others that he is in the same boat as he perhaps.
OK, here are the current starting QBs that I think I would rate ahead of Dak:
Darnold
Ben R. at least the BR from the first part of last year.....put question mark beside him
Allen
Ryan
Brady
Jackson
Tannehill
Burrow
Mayfield
Goff
Rodgers
Cousins....maybe
Mahomes
Watson
Carr....maybe
Herbert
Stafford
Garropolo...maybe
Wilson
That is 15 for certain that I believe are better. 3-4 others that he is in the same boat as he perhaps.
No on
Ryan, Tannehill, Burrow, Goff, Cousins, Carr, Herbert, Stafford or Jimmy G.
Yes on the remaining.
Puts him just inside of the Top 10.
This Dak vs. Dalton comparison is cracking me up...ask any Cowboy fan and I know you have to search high and low for ones that aren’t delusional but find a sane one and ask them about the very small gap in performance with Andy D vs. Dak
Some of you are too fixated on the old Andy and some of you didn’t watch a lot of Big D football last season
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OK, here are the current starting QBs that I think I would rate ahead of Dak:
Darnold
Ben R. at least the BR from the first part of last year.....put question mark beside him
Allen
Ryan
Brady
Jackson
Tannehill
Burrow
Mayfield
Goff
Rodgers
Cousins....maybe
Mahomes
Watson
Carr....maybe
Herbert
Stafford
Garropolo...maybe
Wilson
That is 15 for certain that I believe are better. 3-4 others that he is in the same boat as he perhaps.
No on
Ryan, Tannehill, Burrow, Goff, Cousins, Carr, Herbert, Stafford or Jimmy G.
Yes on the remaining.
Puts him just inside of the Top 10.
This Dak vs. Dalton comparison is cracking me up...ask any Cowboy fan and I know you have to search high and low for ones that aren’t delusional but find a sane one and ask them about the very small gap in performance with Andy D vs. Dak
Some of you are too fixated on the old Andy and some of you didn’t watch a lot of Big D football last season
No on
Ryan, Tannehill, Burrow, Goff, Cousins, Carr, Herbert, Stafford or Jimmy G.
Yes on the remaining.
Puts him just inside of the Top 10.
I said he is perhaps on par with Carr, Cousins, Garrop. Not the others. He might at best squeeze into the Top 15.
Anyone and everyone would bet on the futures of Burrow and Herbert over Dak. You might argue on Goff. The only possible argument on Ryan would be age. Even there...at best he gets to 14....or 15, maybe.
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No on
Ryan, Tannehill, Burrow, Goff, Cousins, Carr, Herbert, Stafford or Jimmy G.
Yes on the remaining.
Puts him just inside of the Top 10.
I said he is perhaps on par with Carr, Cousins, Garrop. Not the others. He might at best squeeze into the Top 15.
Anyone and everyone would bet on the futures of Burrow and Herbert over Dak. You might argue on Goff. The only possible argument on Ryan would be age. Even there...at best he gets to 14....or 15, maybe.
I said he is perhaps on par with Carr, Cousins, Garrop. Not the others. He might at best squeeze into the Top 15.
He’s better than those 3.
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I said he is perhaps on par with Carr, Cousins, Garrop. Not the others. He might at best squeeze into the Top 15.
He’s better than those 3.
He’s better than those 3.
Debateable at best. Nevertheless Carr is schedule to make 19.5 mill in 2021. Cousins: 31 mill. Garrop: 26 mill. For an average of 25.5 mill. That is about what Dak SHOULD be paid. That should be his market value.
Fair to say?
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