Baker and OBJ
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Articulate how this is a stupid ass thread. I can go through each game with and without OBJ, and there is a drastic difference in Baker's performance. I mean if you can explain the night and day difference of Baker, be my guest.
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Articulate how this is a stupid ass thread. I can go through each game with and without OBJ, and there is a drastic difference in Baker's performance. I mean if you can explain the night and day difference of Baker, be my guest.
Articulate how this is a stupid ass thread. I can go through each game with and without OBJ, and there is a drastic difference in Baker's performance. I mean if you can explain the night and day difference of Baker, be my guest.
And just the previous week where Odell has 7 catches for 75 yards against one of the very best defenses in the NFL? Didn't fucking hear from you last week, did we?
As for going through games, you're welcome to find my rebuttal to a Brett Kollmann video where I highlighted a missed TD bomb by Baker against the Cowboys because of his refusal to target Odell against cover 6.
Anyone on this board that happens by this thread will gladly tell you, especially with the film work I put in, that you're going just to want to sit this one out. You're over generalizing a well debunked bullshit myth. One born of and propagated by people who simply can't understand football. They watch it, but they don't understand it.
Bakers problem aren't his receivers... Bakers problem IS Baker. Or was his inability to put the ball on a man with no DB in 15 yards of him somehow magically the receivers fault?
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First off, OBJ had 5 catches for 77 yards last week. Second, still haven't explained why Baker holds on to the ball and is indecisive when OBJ is on the field. How is this debunked? You can show me 1 play where Baker didn't throw OBJ the ball and I can show you about 2 and a half years of Bakers stats with and without OBJ. As far as last week I thought the same about Baker and OBJ, but now after the first 2 games without OBJ and 2 with OBJ, Baker isn't the same. This wouldn't be a topic of discussion if there wasn't a correlation of when Baker has OBJ and when he doesn't, now would it?
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Baker has been hurt the last two games. Wills, Tretter and Conklin have been questionable to play,
and they took the field. I admire them for that.
Tiam is right.
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Was Baker hurt last year or the entire 2019 season? Or after OBJ went out last year? Was Wills, Tretter, and Conklin questionable after week 7 last year, refresh my memory. If my memory serves me correct, Baker was a better QB once OBJ went off the field. There has to be a reason why this is a topic of discussion.
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Was Baker hurt last year or the entire 2019 season? Or after OBJ went out last year? Was Wills, Tretter, and Conklin questionable after week 7 last year, refresh my memory. If my memory serves me correct, Baker was a better QB once OBJ went off the field. There has to be a reason why this is a topic of discussion.
Was Baker hurt last year or the entire 2019 season? Or after OBJ went out last year? Was Wills, Tretter, and Conklin questionable after week 7 last year, refresh my memory. If my memory serves me correct, Baker was a better QB once OBJ went off the field. There has to be a reason why this is a topic of discussion.
Baker was a much better QB after OBJ suffered his season-ending injury than before in 2020.
But was this because OBJ wasn't on the field, or was it because Baker felt more comfortable in a new offensive system after a half season of trying to figure out?
Then again, Baker was much better as a rookie (w/o OBJ) than he was in his second season (w/ OBJ). Is this proof that he's better off without OBJ, or was the Browns a much better-run team in 2018 with Gregg Williams as head coach down the stretch than they were in 2019 under Freddie? Also, what seems to be glossed over by the pro-Baker faction is the fact that he did a horrible job of preparing for his second season.
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First off, OBJ had 5 catches for 77 yards last week. Second, still haven't explained why Baker holds on to the ball and is indecisive when OBJ is on the field. How is this debunked? You can show me 1 play where Baker didn't throw OBJ the ball and I can show you about 2 and a half years of Bakers stats with and without OBJ. As far as last week I thought the same about Baker and OBJ, but now after the first 2 games without OBJ and 2 with OBJ, Baker isn't the same. This wouldn't be a topic of discussion if there wasn't a correlation of when Baker has OBJ and when he doesn't, now would it?
First off, OBJ had 5 catches for 77 yards last week. Second, still haven't explained why Baker holds on to the ball and is indecisive when OBJ is on the field. How is this debunked? You can show me 1 play where Baker didn't throw OBJ the ball and I can show you about 2 and a half years of Bakers stats with and without OBJ. As far as last week I thought the same about Baker and OBJ, but now after the first 2 games without OBJ and 2 with OBJ, Baker isn't the same. This wouldn't be a topic of discussion if there wasn't a correlation of when Baker has OBJ and when he doesn't, now would it?
You're trying to make a generalization after one VERY bad game by Baker. It wasn't OBJ's fault that Mayfield sucked swamp water against the Vikes (59 qbr). He was high and wide the entire game. And one especially bad WTF play where he had Felton without a defender within ten yards of him for a gimme first down- and didn't see him. It's also been posited that the injury to his non throwing shoulder is seriously affecting his accuracy, and is worse than he's letting on.
I'll defer until Tia looks at the all- 22 but I have suspicion Baker was holding onto the ball because no one was getting open.
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Was Baker hurt last year or the entire 2019 season? Or after OBJ went out last year? Was Wills, Tretter, and Conklin questionable after week 7 last year, refresh my memory. If my memory serves me correct, Baker was a better QB once OBJ went off the field. There has to be a reason why this is a topic of discussion.
Was Baker hurt last year or the entire 2019 season? Or after OBJ went out last year? Was Wills, Tretter, and Conklin questionable after week 7 last year, refresh my memory. If my memory serves me correct, Baker was a better QB once OBJ went off the field. There has to be a reason why this is a topic of discussion.
I'll tell you what, YOU provide the evidence. Since you're making the assertion.
But I'll attack this logically, football speaking.
If you have a talented receiver and your QB locks onto him, then the problem lies with your QB. Mahomes has Tyreek, Brady has Evans, Allen has Diggs, Wilson has Metcalf, Murray has DHop, etc etc etc.
When the QB fails to get them the ball, or worse, go where coverage doesn't dictate the ball, then fans, pundits, coaches and media hold the QB accountable... as they should. Kirk Cousins is damn near a pariah because of his contract worth compared to his performance and offensive weapons. Why do you think it was such a big deal that he was going off the first few weeks? Because fans, Minnesota fans especially, finally felt they were getting what he was paid for.
No blame assigned to Justin Jefferson. No blame assigned to Adam Theilen. Hardly heard anything about the vikes questionable Oline play. It was ALL on Kirk, fair or unfair.
That's because people often gravitate to the most simplistic answer to complex problems that they're either too lazy, too incapable or too unwilling to solve for themselvesm. Football is just a microcosm of that mindset.
Are you and many other Cleveland fans telling me we can't have a talented #1 receiver because Baker will lock onto him? Sounds pretty fucking stupid when you phrase it like that. Better not draft a pro-bowl pass catcher, because then he becomes the problem with the offense by some warped thinking.
This reminds me of that first pick game 1 against the Ravens last year. I broke that play down as well and the coverage. You're welcome to use the search function to find my work. Top right corner, hard to miss. Baker locking onto the boundary receivers and teams drawing up ways to invite those throws.
One more time - if Baker has a problem coming off a read, that's a QB issue, not a receiver issue.
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Baker is just a different QB when OBJ is out there. I'm not saying Baker sucks, or I don't like him, which I haven't said. I haven't mentioned anything about Bakers accuracy. He holds on to the ball and is indecisive when OBJ is out there. Like his reads are off, or looking for OBJ right away.
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Baker is just a different QB when OBJ is out there. I'm not saying Baker sucks, or I don't like him, which I haven't said. I haven't mentioned anything about Bakers accuracy. He holds on to the ball and is indecisive when OBJ is out there. Like his reads are off, or looking for OBJ right away.
Baker is just a different QB when OBJ is out there. I'm not saying Baker sucks, or I don't like him, which I haven't said. I haven't mentioned anything about Bakers accuracy. He holds on to the ball and is indecisive when OBJ is out there. Like his reads are off, or looking for OBJ right away.
"Like" his reads are off? Or are they off?
Here, I'll help. Take 30 minutes, start at page 8, post #6 on this thread. Unsympathetic's link. Watch it, it's solid work.
Then start at my work explaining how Baker missed long ball touchdown shots because he miss-read AND ignored OBJ. That starts at post #11 on the same page.
The coverages and routes are broken down color wise by me. Hopefully you aren't blind anywhere on the color spectrum.
Edit. 90% of Bakers problem yesterday WAS his accuracy and ball placement. I mentioned early on in the game thread how Minnesota was overplaying positive breaks by receivers. That trend will continue against the Bolts unless our QB can connect on the perimeter and outside numbers with consistency.
... or if the Chargers back 7 is that bad.
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Not a coincidence, well one because I don't believe in them. Baker had mvp type stats once OBJ goes out last year. First two games this season, baker 80% completion, decisive in the pocket. OBJ cones back, Baker holding on to the ball, not as crisp, and undecisive. He's better without OBJ.
Not a coincidence, well one because I don't believe in them. Baker had mvp type stats once OBJ goes out last year. First two games this season, baker 80% completion, decisive in the pocket. OBJ cones back, Baker holding on to the ball, not as crisp, and undecisive. He's better without OBJ.
More importantly, how is a coincidence something that someone does or does not believe in? It’s just a word with a definition describing an uncanny set circumstances.
That’s like me saying l don’t believe in muffins.
Would you like a muffin?
No, l don’t believe in those. But l’ll take one of those unnamed circular shaped sweetened bread products.
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There's a reason why Baker has a QB rating of 96.9, 2171 passing yard, 11 TD's and 1 pick last year when OBJ was out.
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There's a reason why Baker has a QB rating of 96.9, 2171 passing yard, 11 TD's and 1 pick last year when OBJ was out.
There's a reason why Baker has a QB rating of 96.9, 2171 passing yard, 11 TD's and 1 pick last year when OBJ was out.
QBR is a pretty poor metric when broken down.
You asked for some evidence to disprove your notion, despite you making the claim. I've provided that. The least you can do is digest it and come back with a thought-out response.
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Tia, you've proved your point. Like so many arguments this year, the person who clearly has substantial evidence on their side is trying to be drowned out by someone who "feels" a certain way instead. It sucks, but it's not even worth engaging further. I'm assuming they did their own research, though.
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Tia, you've proved your point. Like so many arguments this year, the person who clearly has substantial evidence on their side is trying to be drowned out by someone who "feels" a certain way instead. It sucks, but it's not even worth engaging further. I'm assuming they did their own research, though.
Tia, you've proved your point. Like so many arguments this year, the person who clearly has substantial evidence on their side is trying to be drowned out by someone who "feels" a certain way instead. It sucks, but it's not even worth engaging further. I'm assuming they did their own research, though.
You're assuming too much.
Baker and OBJ haven't been playing together consistently, due to the injuries of the later, hence they don't have chemistry. But yesterday it was all on Baker, who missed everyone in the second half.
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Tia, you've proved your point. Like so many arguments this year, the person who clearly has substantial evidence on their side is trying to be drowned out by someone who "feels" a certain way instead. It sucks, but it's not even worth engaging further. I'm assuming they did their own research, though.
You're assuming too much.
Baker and OBJ haven't been playing together consistently, due to the injuries of the later, hence they don't have chemistry. But yesterday it was all on Baker, who missed everyone in the second half.
You're assuming too much.
Baker and OBJ haven't been playing together consistently, due to the injuries of the later, hence they don't have chemistry. But yesterday it was all on Baker, who missed everyone in the second half.
I believe JRB is agreeing with your assessment here, not disagreeing.
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You're assuming too much.
Baker and OBJ haven't been playing together consistently, due to the injuries of the later, hence they don't have chemistry. But yesterday it was all on Baker, who missed everyone in the second half.
I believe JRB is agreeing with your assessment here, not disagreeing.
I believe JRB is agreeing with your assessment here, not disagreeing.
He is, but he is also assuming that those who simply fart out that "Baker is better off without OBJ" did their own research. Which I find to be questionable to say the least.
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He is, but he is also assuming that those who simply fart out that "Baker is better off without OBJ" did their own research. Which I find to be questionable to say the least.
While it may be true at the face value of a stat line, the further dive leads us the opposite direction. So at that point we come to a cross-roads on agreeing just where the line of reality is drawn.
Baker performed better without Odell. He also faced some questionable defenses, adjusted route combinations, rode the Chubb-Hunt train and Baker forced himself to play better within the structure of the offense. Not trying to create on his own without necessity.
He is about as "protected" as an NFL QB gets. Between the Oline, the running game, receivers and offensive design.
Then towards the later parts of the season - Ravens and chiefs, we saw just how valuable a player like Odell would have been to some degree. Even if Baker doesn't hit him. Which, IMHO, is like having a Ferrari but only being able to drive it during rush how. Baker has to get the ball to our WR's ...at EVERY level of the field.
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There's a reason why Baker has a QB rating of 96.9, 2171 passing yard, 11 TD's and 1 pick last year when OBJ was out.
There's a reason why Baker has a QB rating of 96.9, 2171 passing yard, 11 TD's and 1 pick last year when OBJ was out.
its a baker mayfield problem not an OBJ problem.
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He is, but he is also assuming that those who simply fart out that "Baker is better off without OBJ" did their own research. Which I find to be questionable to say the least.
To be sure, I meant that extremely sarcastically a la the world around us.
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