Baker Mayfield
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. But the Browns absolutely have to see what it would take for Rodgers, R. Wilson, or D. Watson. We're not winning a Super Bowl with Baker, ever.
I'm speculating that Wilson is on the decline. He, like Baker this season had/has injury problems. He also has DK Metcalf, Lockett. Not much happening with that offense. And yes, Wilson is a winner and proven commodity, I just wonder if a change of scenery sparks him, or has he lost the fire that made him great?
Rodgers, wouldn't shock me if he left GB, but to come here I doubt it. Browns would have to really break the bank- doesn't seem like something Berry & DePodesta would do.
Watson's situation is so unsettled. Anywhere he lands would be a potential PR nightmare, and his contract is sky high. I read somewhere, I think on profootballtalk.com that legal stuff with him would begin in late January/February. Once that settles, then he & his agent start a plan for him...hopefully it won't be an orchestrated " I'm going to _____" like OBJ, but I can see it happening.
I'm speculating that Wilson is on the decline. He, like Baker this season had/has injury problems
At zero moments in Wilson's entire career has he had an OL as good as the worst one the Browns trotted out in the last 3 seasons. Even in Hawks one title season they were bottom-10 in OL [even though that crew was the most expensive OL] and the last few years Seattle has spent proving the thing we've said for years throughout this forum --- spending lots on QB/WR and having a Ghoolie OL [nothing] does not a SB win.
Yes, we don't have WR.. that's what a draft and targeted FA can fix quick enough.. but we do have [and hopefully can continue to have] everything else with a Wilson.
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I'm speculating that Wilson is on the decline. He, like Baker this season had/has injury problems
At zero moments in Wilson's entire career has he had an OL as good as the worst one the Browns trotted out in the last 3 seasons. Even in Hawks one title season they were bottom-10 in OL [even though that crew was the most expensive OL] and the last few years Seattle has spent proving the thing we've said for years throughout this forum --- spending lots on QB/WR and having a Ghoolie OL [nothing] does not a SB win.
Yes, we don't have WR.. that's what a draft and targeted FA can fix quick enough.. but we do have [and hopefully can continue to have] everything else with a Wilson.
At zero moments in Wilson's entire career has he had an OL as good as the worst one the Browns trotted out in the last 3 seasons. Even in Hawks one title season they were bottom-10 in OL [even though that crew was the most expensive OL] and the last few years Seattle has spent proving the thing we've said for years throughout this forum --- spending lots on QB/WR and having a Ghoolie OL [nothing] does not a SB win.
Yes, we don't have WR.. that's what a draft and targeted FA can fix quick enough.. but we do have [and hopefully can continue to have] everything else with a Wilson.
Except his wife wants a big city market. He is NOT coming to Cleveland
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At zero moments in Wilson's entire career has he had an OL as good as the worst one the Browns trotted out in the last 3 seasons. Even in Hawks one title season they were bottom-10 in OL [even though that crew was the most expensive OL] and the last few years Seattle has spent proving the thing we've said for years throughout this forum --- spending lots on QB/WR and having a Ghoolie OL [nothing] does not a SB win.
Yes, we don't have WR.. that's what a draft and targeted FA can fix quick enough.. but we do have [and hopefully can continue to have] everything else with a Wilson.
Except his wife wants a big city market. He is NOT coming to Cleveland
Except his wife wants a big city market. He is NOT coming to Cleveland
So who then? NYG?
Karlis Missed -
If Desaun Watson isn’t in jail, he is who the Browns need to go after. He is actually 5 months younger then Baker
And he is a proven, pro bowl player. With MVP potential.
Plus he is already signed to a contract, that by next year, will be team friendlyIf Desaun Watson isn’t in jail, he is who the Browns need to go after. He is actually 5 months younger then Baker
And he is a proven, pro bowl player. With MVP potential.
Plus he is already signed to a contract, that by next year, will be team friendlyProblem is... Great- the Browns offer the Texans Baker, but that's not going to be close to enough. Berry won't trade away a truckload of picks to get a guy with questionable moral issues.
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Browns already picked up Baker's 5th year option, so he's locked in as starting QB next year, whether we like it or not Berry and co. have the philosophy of building through the draft, so unless the Browns get an amazing sweetheart deal from another team, picking up an established QB like Rodgers or Wilson is highly unlikely due to the cost. Best course of action would be to draft a QB in this year's draft and let him sit for a year to assimilate the system. Then, if Baker doesn't improve next year, the Browns can cut bait cleanly and have a QB who's firmly established in their system. There really isn't a blue-chipper in this year's QB class, but I could see the Browns using a 2nd rounder on a QB like Riddle from UC.
Browns already picked up Baker's 5th year option, so he's locked in as starting QB next year, whether we like it or not Berry and co. have the philosophy of building through the draft, so unless the Browns get an amazing sweetheart deal from another team, picking up an established QB like Rodgers or Wilson is highly unlikely due to the cost. Best course of action would be to draft a QB in this year's draft and let him sit for a year to assimilate the system. Then, if Baker doesn't improve next year, the Browns can cut bait cleanly and have a QB who's firmly established in their system. There really isn't a blue-chipper in this year's QB class, but I could see the Browns using a 2nd rounder on a QB like Riddle from UC.
Overall, I agree jb... BUT if Baker posts a couple more stinko 50ish qbrs in the last two games, and the Browns go 7-10? MHO is Baker isn't going to have the starters job gift wrapped for him in 2022.
That Mayfield is Mr. Anti-clutch with the game on the line- should already be giving Berry cause for concern.
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Except his wife wants a big city market. He is NOT coming to Cleveland
So who then? NYG?
So who then? NYG?
That was the rumor.
Then he came out and said he ain't leaving and plans to be in Seattle for 20 more years
Type his name into Google though. 20 teams names pop up as reported suitors.
Sounds like a massive price tag to me. And he just lost to the Bears... Against Nick Foles.
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Except his wife wants a big city market. He is NOT coming to Cleveland
So who then? NYG?
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I won't lie, I chuckled when I came across this today....
I won't lie, I chuckled when I came across this today....
It was Christmas. The season of giving
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Browns already picked up Baker's 5th year option, so he's locked in as starting QB next year, whether we like it or not Berry and co. have the philosophy of building through the draft, so unless the Browns get an amazing sweetheart deal from another team, picking up an established QB like Rodgers or Wilson is highly unlikely due to the cost. Best course of action would be to draft a QB in this year's draft and let him sit for a year to assimilate the system. Then, if Baker doesn't improve next year, the Browns can cut bait cleanly and have a QB who's firmly established in their system. There really isn't a blue-chipper in this year's QB class, but I could see the Browns using a 2nd rounder on a QB like Riddle from UC.
I could see the Browns using a 2nd rounder on a QB like Riddle from UC.
I’d pass on this “Riddle” guy whoever that is ?
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Browns already picked up Baker's 5th year option, so he's locked in as starting QB next year, whether we like it or not Berry and co. have the philosophy of building through the draft, so unless the Browns get an amazing sweetheart deal from another team, picking up an established QB like Rodgers or Wilson is highly unlikely due to the cost. Best course of action would be to draft a QB in this year's draft and let him sit for a year to assimilate the system. Then, if Baker doesn't improve next year, the Browns can cut bait cleanly and have a QB who's firmly established in their system. There really isn't a blue-chipper in this year's QB class, but I could see the Browns using a 2nd rounder on a QB like Riddle from UC.
Best course of action would be to draft a QB in this year's draft and let him sit for a year to assimilate the system. Then, if Baker doesn't improve next year, the Browns can cut bait cleanly and have a QB who's firmly established in their system. There really isn't a blue-chipper in this year's QB class, but I could see the Browns using a 2nd rounder on a QB like Riddle from UC.
Well thought out/fair post...
So we have our system QB in 26 y.o. Nick Mullins... size says 6' 1" (which looks shorter walking up to full grown *** men in the trenches)
I'm a favorite of accurate 6'3/6'4 QB's... Mayfield/Mullins all read of size just over 6ft...(bs) Corral/Zappe/Howell/Willis fall into here
So we need to agree on a better than< Nick Mullins future? Drafting such in 2nd or 3rd round? (Much after pick 50-75 is a real dice roll in this draft totally)
Pickett 6'3'.... Ridder 6'4.....Carson Strong 6'4"..... Tanner McKee 6'6"
Well... I think I may have a 4 man list? ?
Nick Mullins--- Undrafted... from Brett Farve St of Southern Miss.... Verse a Fab 4? stay tuned......
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OK here's a cheap shot from somebody who has been on a variety of Browns Boards since the Dark Days.
Dorsey screwed up two ways, IMHO: Trading for OBJ and drafting Baker Mayfield.
Baker may, or may not, have the arm and physical tools to be a top-tier NFL QB. However, he has little to nothing between the ears.
If the Browns do or did extend him, I believe it is a mistake. Talk about his injuries all you want.
He is WAY overhyped. MAYBE in the middle-third of starting QBs. Maybe in the bottom third.
I just can't keep my feelings under wraps any longer
FWIW, have a Happy and Healthy 2022 to all but - especially - to those who have been around since the aol days.
"God is great. Beer is good. People are crazy." -
I’d pass on this “Riddle” guy whoever that is ?
Well, he's the quarterback of THE Cincinnati Bearcats. You'll have a chance to scout him this Friday when they play Alabama in the National semifinals.
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Just say no to Mitchell Trubisky.
Nick Mullins ain’t the guy and has never been the guy.
Deshaun Watson…Is intriguing…although comes with a price tag and whatever baggage he may or may not be cleared of. So I’m leaning to no…and by some accounts he is touch passer (not a rifle arm that is needed off the shores of Lake Erie).
Jimmy G.- is a better or worse version of Baker Mayfield depending on the Sunday.
and now the they won’t come here because it is the Browns…But why…you have arguably the best lines and backfield in all of football and WR corp that can be fixed/patched up quickly.
Aaron Rodgers- has he mended the fence with the Packers FO? If it is no- he’s got to be in play. We have some guys in their prime the time is now.
Russ- has never had a line or backfield that he would have in Cleveland. Can live here from August to January and then be anywhere else he wants. Is he sticking around post Pete (he’s a goner in a couple weeks).
Draftees- Pickett (first round) and Tanner Morgan (3rd day gamble) both worth developing IMO.
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OK here's a cheap shot from somebody who has been on a variety of Browns Boards since the Dark Days.
Dorsey screwed up two ways, IMHO: Trading for OBJ and drafting Baker Mayfield.
Baker may, or may not, have the arm and physical tools to be a top-tier NFL QB. However, he has little to nothing between the ears.
If the Browns do or did extend him, I believe it is a mistake. Talk about his injuries all you want.
He is WAY overhyped. MAYBE in the middle-third of starting QBs. Maybe in the bottom third.
I just can't keep my feelings under wraps any longer
FWIW, have a Happy and Healthy 2022 to all but - especially - to those who have been around since the aol days.
OK here's a cheap shot from somebody who has been on a variety of Browns Boards since the Dark Days.
Dorsey screwed up two ways, IMHO: Trading for OBJ and drafting Baker Mayfield.
Baker may, or may not, have the arm and physical tools to be a top-tier NFL QB. However, he has little to nothing between the ears.
If the Browns do or did extend him, I believe it is a mistake. Talk about his injuries all you want.
He is WAY overhyped. MAYBE in the middle-third of starting QBs. Maybe in the bottom third.
I just can't keep my feelings under wraps any longer
FWIW, have a Happy and Healthy 2022 to all but - especially - to those who have been around since the aol days.
Great to see you post again John. Hope life has been treating you well.
FWIW, I don't much fault picking up OBJ or Baker. Kyler Murray came out of the same college and system, seems to be doing OK, and he's even shorter than Mayfield.
If you've been following, our resident film breakdown guru has well documented Baker's numerous failures to make post snap adjustments to what the defense is doing though.
We could have done a lot worse than Baker in 2018. Sam Darnold and Josh Rosen qualify as first round busts. Cal's fave Josh Allen has miraculously improved his accuracy, and it remains to be seen how good Lamar Jackson will be when he no longer has the wheels of a Kareem Hunt.
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OK here's a cheap shot from somebody who has been on a variety of Browns Boards since the Dark Days.
Dorsey screwed up two ways, IMHO: Trading for OBJ and drafting Baker Mayfield.
Baker may, or may not, have the arm and physical tools to be a top-tier NFL QB. However, he has little to nothing between the ears.
If the Browns do or did extend him, I believe it is a mistake. Talk about his injuries all you want.
He is WAY overhyped. MAYBE in the middle-third of starting QBs. Maybe in the bottom third.
I just can't keep my feelings under wraps any longer
FWIW, have a Happy and Healthy 2022 to all but - especially - to those who have been around since the aol days.
Great to see you post again John. Hope life has been treating you well.
FWIW, I don't much fault picking up OBJ or Baker. Kyler Murray came out of the same college and system, seems to be doing OK, and he's even shorter than Mayfield.
If you've been following, our resident film breakdown guru has well documented Baker's numerous failures to make post snap adjustments to what the defense is doing though.
We could have done a lot worse than Baker in 2018. Sam Darnold and Josh Rosen qualify as first round busts. Cal's fave Josh Allen has miraculously improved his accuracy, and it remains to be seen how good Lamar Jackson will be when he no longer has the wheels of a Kareem Hunt.
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OK here's a cheap shot from somebody who has been on a variety of Browns Boards since the Dark Days.
Dorsey screwed up two ways, IMHO: Trading for OBJ and drafting Baker Mayfield.
Baker may, or may not, have the arm and physical tools to be a top-tier NFL QB. However, he has little to nothing between the ears.
If the Browns do or did extend him, I believe it is a mistake. Talk about his injuries all you want.
He is WAY overhyped. MAYBE in the middle-third of starting QBs. Maybe in the bottom third.
I just can't keep my feelings under wraps any longer
FWIW, have a Happy and Healthy 2022 to all but - especially - to those who have been around since the aol days.
Great to see you post again John. Hope life has been treating you well.
FWIW, I don't much fault picking up OBJ or Baker. Kyler Murray came out of the same college and system, seems to be doing OK, and he's even shorter than Mayfield.
If you've been following, our resident film breakdown guru has well documented Baker's numerous failures to make post snap adjustments to what the defense is doing though.
We could have done a lot worse than Baker in 2018. Sam Darnold and Josh Rosen qualify as first round busts. Cal's fave Josh Allen has miraculously improved his accuracy, and it remains to be seen how good Lamar Jackson will be when he no longer has the wheels of a Kareem Hunt.
Great to see you post again John. Hope life has been treating you well.
Same to you, Larry. Also to your Little Feat - lovin' wife!
I take no pride in coming out of hibernation, only to blast the Browns. I'd like nothing better than for Mayfield to prove me wrong and for folks to tell me I was wrong, wrong, wrong. Lord knows, folks around here are laughing at me for predicting the Browns would be playing in the AFC Championship Game this year.
PS Did the OBJ pickup remind you of the Andre Rison acquisition - the outcomes, at least.
Health and Happiness in 2022
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Notes:
Tanner Morgan is interesting, but he's reportedly staying in school for '22.
I think Baker was terrific last year, when he had a non-pouting obj with Landry.
But after being hurt, it's high draft choice. He can't be himself, and the Browns don't have a legit
number one.
Hoorta mentioned Murray - he is doing great - the difference, to me, is that Murray has Christian Kirk, similar to Jarvis Landry as a #2....and Murray has A. J. Green, 6'4" previously 4th overall pick by the Bengals as his number one. And, of course, Murray can flat out run for yardage too.
Baker has been playing hurt, not himself, and Baker healthy with a big, fast #1 WR would have a much easier time to make the offense roar. Aaron Rodgers has Devonte Adams. Without Adams, Rodgers would have a LOT harder time.
I believe we can see the Baker last year, when they went to the playoffs, next year after he gets his freakin surgery.... so I guess they will sign a veteran backup qb (Keenum surely will retire, maybe we'll find out why they never let Keenum step up).
First or second round, WR in the spring NFL draft. After that, who knows. The stupidest think Baker has done this season, is to whip his left arm out to stop a guy flying the other direction with an int.
With all the criticism of Baker, I still think he is a fine steering wheel to the car. That last game was a debacle, including Baker's struggles to throw well most of the time. But, the oline is the engine, and it was missing 4 of five starting pistons.
And, as been all season, the wr group, the car has been missing one tire the whole time.
The only saving grace for the Browns, is that they have one of the most excellent transmissions, the running backs, in the league.
You don't fix the tires by changing the steering wheel.
So, there ya go...that's how I see it.
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Notes:
Tanner Morgan is interesting, but he's reportedly staying in school for '22.
I think Baker was terrific last year, when he had a non-pouting obj with Landry.
But after being hurt, it's high draft choice. He can't be himself, and the Browns don't have a legit
number one.
Hoorta mentioned Murray - he is doing great - the difference, to me, is that Murray has Christian Kirk, similar to Jarvis Landry as a #2....and Murray has A. J. Green, 6'4" previously 4th overall pick by the Bengals as his number one. And, of course, Murray can flat out run for yardage too.
Baker has been playing hurt, not himself, and Baker healthy with a big, fast #1 WR would have a much easier time to make the offense roar. Aaron Rodgers has Devonte Adams. Without Adams, Rodgers would have a LOT harder time.
I believe we can see the Baker last year, when they went to the playoffs, next year after he gets his freakin surgery.... so I guess they will sign a veteran backup qb (Keenum surely will retire, maybe we'll find out why they never let Keenum step up).
First or second round, WR in the spring NFL draft. After that, who knows. The stupidest think Baker has done this season, is to whip his left arm out to stop a guy flying the other direction with an int.
With all the criticism of Baker, I still think he is a fine steering wheel to the car. That last game was a debacle, including Baker's struggles to throw well most of the time. But, the oline is the engine, and it was missing 4 of five starting pistons.
And, as been all season, the wr group, the car has been missing one tire the whole time.
The only saving grace for the Browns, is that they have one of the most excellent transmissions, the running backs, in the league.
You don't fix the tires by changing the steering wheel.
So, there ya go...that's how I see it.
Notes:
Tanner Morgan is interesting, but he's reportedly staying in school for '22.
I think Baker was terrific last year, when he had a non-pouting obj with Landry.
But after being hurt, it's high draft choice. He can't be himself, and the Browns don't have a legit
number one.
Hoorta mentioned Murray - he is doing great - the difference, to me, is that Murray has Christian Kirk, similar to Jarvis Landry as a #2....and Murray has A. J. Green, 6'4" previously 4th overall pick by the Bengals as his number one. And, of course, Murray can flat out run for yardage too.
Baker has been playing hurt, not himself, and Baker healthy with a big, fast #1 WR would have a much easier time to make the offense roar. Aaron Rodgers has Devonte Adams. Without Adams, Rodgers would have a LOT harder time.
I believe we can see the Baker last year, when they went to the playoffs, next year after he gets his freakin surgery.... so I guess they will sign a veteran backup qb (Keenum surely will retire, maybe we'll find out why they never let Keenum step up).
First or second round, WR in the spring NFL draft. After that, who knows. The stupidest think Baker has done this season, is to whip his left arm out to stop a guy flying the other direction with an int.
With all the criticism of Baker, I still think he is a fine steering wheel to the car. That last game was a debacle, including Baker's struggles to throw well most of the time. But, the oline is the engine, and it was missing 4 of five starting pistons.
And, as been all season, the wr group, the car has been missing one tire the whole time.
The only saving grace for the Browns, is that they have one of the most excellent transmissions, the running backs, in the league.
You don't fix the tires by changing the steering wheel.
So, there ya go...that's how I see it.
A few responses to some of these comments…
1. Keenum did step up and beat a .500 football team and it looked like the coaching staff had more trust in Keenum than they had with Mullens.2.There’s a lot more to Murray than just having better WRs. He moves much better in the pocket and outside of the pocket and He’s more accurate whether inside or outside of the pocket. Two critical traits that make or break a QB. And When the play breaks down (which happens 20-25%) there aren’t too many others I would take over Murray.
3.The Browns have the best engine (Oline) in the league. And it would like 10x better if our QB could process coverage quickly.
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Aaron Rodgers stats without Adams.
10-1 W/L, by the way.
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/aaron-rodgers-game-log-without-davante-adams
Why? Rodgers is an elite QB. Having Adams makes the offense dangerous. But Even without him the offense is efficient, consistent and good. That's because Rodgers, not the skill players, not the Oline and not the running game, is the foundation of GB.
It's a QB driven league.
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